Author Topic: 5th of November  (Read 1937 times)

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Offline vamrat

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5th of November
« on: November 05, 2012, 02:37:52 PM »
Happy blowing up Parliament Day!

Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Punch

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 02:53:03 PM »
Happy blowing up Parliament Day!



Same to you.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline William

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 05:10:52 PM »
I was going to watch the appropriate movie but it didn't come yet from the Netflix HQ. Oh well.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 07:26:24 PM »
A far happier day is Nov. 7.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2012, 07:49:22 PM »
A far happier day is Nov. 7.
Let's hope so.
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Offline Frederic

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2012, 08:22:20 PM »
A far happier day is Nov. 7.

We'll know tomorrow night.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2012, 09:04:17 PM »
A far happier day is Nov. 7.

We'll know tomorrow night.
...or in a couple of weeks.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2012, 09:06:21 PM »
Nice hats...
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Offline augustin717

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2012, 10:38:17 PM »
Nov. 7 1917

Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2012, 10:40:26 PM »
A far happier day is Nov. 7.

We'll know tomorrow night.
...or in a couple of weeks.

Civil wars take far longer than that...
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2012, 10:49:50 PM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2012, 11:45:28 PM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2012, 11:47:38 PM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2012, 11:49:45 PM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!
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Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline Tallitot

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2012, 11:52:04 PM »
Nov. 7 1917
the birth of Edith Bouvier Beale?
Proverbs 22:7

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2012, 11:52:09 PM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 11:53:16 PM by 88Devin12 »

Offline Ebor

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2012, 11:56:32 PM »
Sigh.  Oh really?

And a scholarly analysis by Professor Ronald Hutton (who has been mentioned in other threads) of the event postulates that if they had succeeded along with destroying a large part of the area and killing lots of other people it would have caused a backlash against English Roman Catholics that would have been a slaughter.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/civil_war_revolution/gunpowder_hutton_01.shtml

A while back I watched a program from British TV in which they build a reproduction of the hall and got proper gunpowder to test if it would have blown up the old parliament building.  It did with terrific results, fortunately on a vacant military range in the north of England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gunpowder_Plot:_Exploding_The_Legend

Here's the first part on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9oDBXLjQcE
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2012, 11:57:48 PM »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Jetavan

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2012, 12:52:16 AM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.
I think the British celebrate the conflagrative failure of the Fawkean inferno.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2012, 12:54:39 AM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.

They are closer now than they would be under English oppression.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2012, 01:02:42 AM »
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2012, 01:06:53 AM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.

They are closer now than they would be under English oppression.

Really? Last I knew, Irish Catholics weren't very religious anymore and Anglicans in England were getting very liberal. Doesn't sound like either is closer to Orthodoxy, rather both sound like they're much farther from it.

Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2012, 01:07:38 AM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.

They are closer now than they would be under English oppression.

Really? Last I knew, Irish Catholics weren't very religious anymore and Anglicans in England were getting very liberal. Doesn't sound like either is closer to Orthodoxy, rather both sound like they're much farther from it.

I've met plenty of liberal/nonreligious Orthodox.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2012, 01:08:29 AM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.

They are closer now than they would be under English oppression.

Really? Last I knew, Irish Catholics weren't very religious anymore and Anglicans in England were getting very liberal. Doesn't sound like either is closer to Orthodoxy, rather both sound like they're much farther from it.

I've met plenty of liberal/nonreligious Orthodox.

Just because one is baptized Orthodox doesn't mean anything, you know that right? I know the same can be applied for Irish Catholics and Anglicans, but most of their hierarchy seems to be infected.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 01:09:04 AM by 88Devin12 »

Offline William

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2012, 01:08:58 AM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.

They are closer now than they would be under English oppression.

Really? Last I knew, Irish Catholics weren't very religious anymore and Anglicans in England were getting very liberal. Doesn't sound like either is closer to Orthodoxy, rather both sound like they're much farther from it.

I've met plenty of liberal/nonreligious Orthodox.

Doesn't Ireland have like the highest church attendance in Europe and is like one of three countries in the universe without abortion on demand?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2012, 01:12:14 AM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.

They are closer now than they would be under English oppression.

Really? Last I knew, Irish Catholics weren't very religious anymore and Anglicans in England were getting very liberal. Doesn't sound like either is closer to Orthodoxy, rather both sound like they're much farther from it.

I've met plenty of liberal/nonreligious Orthodox.

Doesn't Ireland have like the highest church attendance in Europe and is like one of three countries in the universe without abortion on demand?

Maybe I shouldn't listen to the BBC. I was probably thinking of the wrong thing, they do have higher "religiousity" than most of Europe and higher attendance (even moreso than Greece, to their shame).
I do recall though some of the other problems in Ireland being common (like alcoholism, etc...) but the same could be said of some Orthodox nations.

Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2012, 03:40:35 PM »
Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Now you're talking!

I dunno if anyone realizes that this is kind of like celebrating the Christian versions of Muslim groups.

I'm all for Irish independence, but violence isn't/wasn't the answer. Also, I'm not at all for Irish Catholicism. The Irish, Scottish & English belong back where they were before 1066, in the Orthodox Church.

They are closer now than they would be under English oppression.

Really? Last I knew, Irish Catholics weren't very religious anymore and Anglicans in England were getting very liberal. Doesn't sound like either is closer to Orthodoxy, rather both sound like they're much farther from it.

I've met plenty of liberal/nonreligious Orthodox.

Doesn't Ireland have like the highest church attendance in Europe and is like one of three countries in the universe without abortion on demand?

There are a good bit more than three, but yes, Ireland is one of them.

In Europe, it is illegal flat out in the Vatican and Malta.  There are restrictions (to varying degrees) in Ireland and Poland as well as the little-un's: Monaco, Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, the Faroes, and some more lenient restrictions in England, Finland, and Bjork-land.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Punch

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2012, 03:50:00 PM »
You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2012, 04:05:44 PM »
You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 04:06:13 PM by 88Devin12 »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2012, 04:15:31 PM »
You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.



Never forget.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline sheenj

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2012, 04:20:13 PM »
You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.



Never forget.

A military operation on a military base conducted between two parties in a declared state of war?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2012, 04:24:54 PM »
You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.



Never forget.

A military operation on a military base conducted between two parties in a declared state of war?

Think of all the civilian contractors and hapless laborers aboard that base, and then think to yourself, is this the kind of Republic I want to build?
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline Punch

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2012, 04:26:48 PM »
Don't forget as you go out and vote today (if you do) that this country was also founded by terrorism.  And yes, the end DOES justify the means in this world.  It always has, and always will.

You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline sheenj

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2012, 04:31:52 PM »
Don't forget as you go out and vote today (if you do) that this country was also founded by terrorism.  And yes, the end DOES justify the means in this world.  It always has, and always will.

You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.

Guerrilla warfare =/= Terrorism. There is a difference.

Offline Ansgar

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2012, 04:34:09 PM »
Don't forget as you go out and vote today (if you do) that this country was also founded by terrorism.  And yes, the end DOES justify the means in this world.  It always has, and always will.

You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.

Guerrilla warfare =/= Terrorism. There is a difference.
I would agree.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Jetavan

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2012, 04:37:57 PM »
Death Stars can never hold their liquor.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2012, 04:42:36 PM »
Don't forget as you go out and vote today (if you do) that this country was also founded by terrorism.  And yes, the end DOES justify the means in this world.  It always has, and always will.

You say that as if it something bad.  Up the Republic!

Other than being popularized by the movie, I fail to see how this is a positive thing to celebrate.

Yeah, it would have been better if they'd succeeded.

Why is that?

It almost seems like celebrating the IRA.

Catholicism and Protestantism/Anglicanism are both bad for the UK & Ireland.

The ends don't justify the means. Terrorism is never justified.

Ireland deserves independence, but you don't commit terrorism to get it.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Scotland will actually be voting on independence in the upcoming decade.

We no longer live in the world of yesterday. I seriously doubt the UK would go into an all-out war over a part of it declaring independence.

You're all hypocrites in condemning Muslim terrorism and turning around and celebration terrorism by Christians.

Guerrilla warfare =/= Terrorism. There is a difference.
I would agree.

Shooting officers is not very gentlemanly and was abhorrent in the mores of the time...of course it didn't stop the Brits doing it to the Crapauds a couple decades later...

Also, the majority of the IRA/PROVO attacks were on British military and RUC forces.  Acts such as the Omagh bombing were aberrations and in this specific instance was condemned by the mainstream Provisional IRA and the political branch Sinn Fein.  
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2012, 04:43:02 PM »
Death Stars can never hold their liquor.

That's not a fart.  That's a space station exploding!
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2012, 04:44:23 PM »
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 04:45:04 PM by Iconodule »
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Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2012, 04:59:06 PM »
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Punch

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2012, 05:00:26 PM »
Guerrilla warfare =/= Terrorism. There is a difference.

Both are killing to achieve a means.  I suppose that fire bombing women and children is also a nice clean sanitary way of war, as long as it is properly done by nice uniformed heroes flying shiny airplanes - as opposed to killing them with a bomb in a baby buggy.  They are just as dead.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2012, 05:05:36 PM »
Guerrilla warfare =/= Terrorism. There is a difference.

Both are killing to achieve a means.  I suppose that fire bombing women and children is also a nice clean sanitary way of war, as long as it is properly done by nice uniformed heroes flying shiny airplanes - as opposed to killing them with a bomb in a baby buggy.  They are just as dead.

Nope.  Terrorists kill far less than conventional bombing campaigns.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline mabsoota

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2012, 05:12:56 PM »
as a british person and an orthodox Christian, i would like to set straight a few things.
1. at the time of the attempted blowing up of parliament, catholics were horribly persecuted and the government was corrupt.
2. blowing up parliament is never a good Christian solution to oppression.
3. catholics in uk do not 'celebrate' november 5th.
4. 90% of the atheists, protestants and other who do, do not realise that burning the 'guy' on the bonfire is burning an effigy of an actual person who lived and is therefore very similar to witchcraft or voodoo and not a Christian thing to do.
5. about 3/4 british people are not interested in british or irish history, so we only study this era very superficially at school, never exploring the religious oppression side of things.
as i was becoming orthodox, i got fairly close to the catholic church and made many friends who explained to me more about history, which i then checked up in books and on the internet.

6. living through the era of the 'troubles' in northern ireland was scary, and i even wrote a small book based on it when i was 12 (it was like a children's story) because it affected me so much. we were aware war could spill over at any time and we knew that the work of the ira and the work of the british police could kill and main many innocent people.
there is no way that it was ok. lots of people died and there was way too much hatred on both sides.
7. as a fairly recent visitor to ireland, it was beautiful to be able to make the sign of the cross in front of churches with no one looking at me, and great to meet some lovely Christian people who were trying to serve God in their country (i attended a protestant Bible study and a catholic mass, where the sermon spoke exactly into my situation).
ireland (the south) does not have the same aggressive secularism as the uk. one is allowed to be anti abortion without feeling like an outcast (as we do in the uk). the effect of the catholic church there seems to me to be more positive than negative, despite the failures in leadership to weed out several of the dodgy priests over the decades. i think they need help and prayers.
8. britain and ireland committed many atrocities in the war at the beginning of the 20th century and much forgiveness and restoration is needed.
9. northern ireland (i admit i have not been there) is on the road to recovery, and Christians from all groups have contributed to it. there are also several orthodox churches now there.

10. in summary, i do not celebrate november 5th (since just before i became orthodox, when i realised it was about religious oppression, i just thought it was about terrorism before that). if invited to a fireworks display, i would have to politely decline.
may God give peace and grace to all those who suffer oppression.

Offline Ansgar

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2012, 05:50:05 PM »
Guerrilla warfare =/= Terrorism. There is a difference.

Both are killing to achieve a means.  I suppose that fire bombing women and children is also a nice clean sanitary way of war, as long as it is properly done by nice uniformed heroes flying shiny airplanes - as opposed to killing them with a bomb in a baby buggy.  They are just as dead.
Guerrilla warfare is defined as "the use of hit-and-run tactics by small, mobile groups of irregular forces operating in territory controlled by a hostile, regular force" and has traditionally been used about smaller groups of foot soldiers, like the ones led by Che Guevara.
Therefore, I don't think that an airborne attack can correctly be called guerrilla warfare.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: 5th of November
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2012, 07:11:01 PM »
Guerrilla warfare =/= Terrorism. There is a difference.

Both are killing to achieve a means.  I suppose that fire bombing women and children is also a nice clean sanitary way of war, as long as it is properly done by nice uniformed heroes flying shiny airplanes - as opposed to killing them with a bomb in a baby buggy.  They are just as dead.
Guerrilla warfare is defined as "the use of hit-and-run tactics by small, mobile groups of irregular forces operating in territory controlled by a hostile, regular force" and has traditionally been used about smaller groups of foot soldiers, like the ones led by Che Guevara.
Therefore, I don't think that an airborne attack can correctly be called guerrilla warfare.


I don't think he is saying that.  He is saying that terrorism is a means to an end, just like bombing raids.  As I pointed out, historically terrorist attacks have many less civilian casualties than bombing raids.  (Compare 9/11 to Hiroshima.  Keep in mind that the majority of those killed in Hiroshima were neither IJN not IJA personel.) 

Before people make statements regarding terrorism they need to understand how war between nation-states works.  I mean the gritty details.

1- War of maneuver between armies.  Army A finds Army B on the field of battle and beats them.  The war is decided by the outcome of a battle.  Napoleonic Wars.

2- Industrial Warfare - People don't kill people, bullets do.  People soak up bullets but they are an expendable resource.  Basically, you throw as many bullets as you can at the other side to wear out their industrial production.  WWI.

3- Blitzkreig/Shock and Awe.  You maneuver your armies so fast utilizing combined arms that you overpower their forces at one spot and are already in their hinterland threatening the base of their production before their armies are even geared up to fight.  WWII in France, Denmark, Poland, Netherlands, etc.

3a - Just use bombers.  Either way, the point it so bypass fighting and hit their industrial capabilities with minimal loss to your own forces - i.e. men are no longer bullet sponges, just kill the factories (and whoever gets in the way.  Bombing campaigns in Germany and Japan.  We tried to do the same in VN. 

4- 4th Generation Warfare is all about ROI.  Do as much infrastructure damage as you can for the least cost incurred by the aggressor.  You can continue using planes but precision drones do the same thing.  Cyberwarfare is another alternative.  They use computers for command and control - kill the computers.  Likewise, terrorist attacks can be used to sap the will of the people or better yet - cause systemic damage to their networks (electrical grids, transportation, food supply, water supply, commerce, etc.). 

Terrorism allows NGO (non-govt. organizations) to carry out systemic damages in the same way that bombing campaigns could for a regular government.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.