Topic: How can a people convert to Orthodox faith if Orthodoxy is weak in his city?

[walter1234]

I live in Hong Kong. The Orthodox faith is extremely weak and unpopular. There is only one to two Orthodox Church in Hong Kong.

How can I convert to Orthodox faith? Any suggestions?

[mike]

Why two parishes are not enough? One would do.

[stavros_388]

You're not converting to Orthodoxy for its popularity, are you?   Get to one of those churches. There you will meet other Christians and develop a relationship with the priest(s). FWIW, I began my conversion to Orthodoxy while living in Korea. Seoul had only one parish, and services were almost all in Korean. And when I lived in Busan, there weren't even any English parishioners (that I knew of)! Surely in Hong Kong, there will be English speaking and maybe even English services at the Orthodox parish.

[Schultz]

IIRC, one of the parishes is actually the Cathedral of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and Southeast Asia, under the omophorion of the EP.  Just because it is small doesn't mean it's "weak." 

[jmbejdl]

I live in Hong Kong. The Orthodox faith is extremely weak and unpopular. There is only one to two Orthodox Church in Hong Kong.

How can I convert to Orthodox faith? Any suggestions?

There was no Orthodox church where I lived when I was Chrismated, there was none where I lived when my daughter was born and it takes us about 40 minutes to drive to our current parish as well. It's quite common, outside of the traditionally Orthodox countries, to have to travel for DL. People manage. One of the posters here apparently travels from the Faroe Islands to Iceland, which is truly impressive. You should try to get to one of those two parishes (even if you can't go every week) and you should certainly try to contact the priest there.

James

[Cyrillic]

The city where I live (120.000 inhabitants) doesn't even have one (1) Orthodox parish. You should be happy that there are two in your area.

[walter1234]

 Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

[Cyrillic]

Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

Why not start with Western Europe instead 

[JamesRottnek]

Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

It has.  It just hasn't quite taken off yet.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I was thinking the same thing, two Orthodox parishes in Hong Kong sounds like a miracle if I ever heard of one!  It took literally centuries, CENTURIES, across many generations for Orthodox to gradually and progressively become the norm in "Orthodox countries" or regions.  It didn't just happen in one day or one generation.  It takes a long time, and it starts as all things, very small.  To have that foundation is the first step towards that future.  In all of our parishes, we need to be active as we can be, appreciative as we can be, and as inviting to other people in our community as we can be.  This doesn't mean being pushy and even less superficial.  A warm and friendly relationship with our neighbors, coworkers, and communities will do much more to build the Church in these areas than will flashy signs, pandering services, and relying on headcounts.  Besides, God likes the weak cities best, after all what was it that Apostle Bartholomew said about Nazareth? 

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[mike]

Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

What is your problem, Sir?

[walter1234]

Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

What is your problem, Sir?

Protestant is minority  in Hong Kong. There are 7 million people  in Hong Kong. Only 200000 people is Protestant. To be the Protestant,It is already not easy and very difficult.

Orthodox Faith is even much weaker than Protestant. If I convert to Orthodox Faith, I will be even harder and more difficult than to be a Protestant.

[mike]

Orthodox Faith is even much weaker than Protestant. If I convert to Orthodox Faith, I will be even harder and more difficult than to be a Protestant.

What do you mean by "harder"? How long would you have to commute?

[walter1234]

In Hong Kong,telling people that I am Protestant is not easy already.

Orthodox is more unpopular than Protestant in Hong Kong.Telling others that I were Orthodoxy seems even more difficult. It seems I were a very strange person and need to suffer more pressure.

[quietmorning]

Christ wasn't popular.  The world hated Him - still does. . . .and the world will hate you too if you follow HIM.  You will have to ask yourself if you love man more than you love God.  And if your answer is that you love God more, are you willing to die for Him?  Are you willing to carry your cross?  If you love man more than God, then you should be what is more comfortable.  If you love God more than the opinions of man . . . then go after Him with everything you have, turning your back on the opinions of man.

[mike]

In Hong Kong,telling people that I am Protestant is not easy already.

Orthodox is more unpopular than Protestant in Hong Kong.Telling others that I were Orthodoxy seems even more difficult. It seems I were a very strange person and need to suffer more pressure.

My friend spent half a year in Taiwan. She had no problem with attending the church there (propably the only one within the country) or telling others she's Orthodox. Stop whining and behave like a man.

[stavros_388]

If I convert to Orthodox Faith, I will be even harder and more difficult than to be a Protestant.

If you're looking for easy, Orthodoxy might not be for you. People have been willing to die for the faith for nearly 2000 years. Many people have. I am married to a non-Christian, was raised by non-Christians, and probably 90% of my friends and family are atheists or agnostics. It isn't easy. If it were too easy and comfortable, then I'd be concerned. You don't need to grow a beard, wear a 10 lb cross on your chest, and proclaim your faith to everyone you meet in order to be Orthodox. And you don't need to be surrounded by an Orthodox society or Orthodox people to keep a prayer rule, attend the Liturgy, and learn to "love your neighbor as yourself." Hong Kong sounds like the perfect place to get started.

[walter1234]

I' ve already gone to Orthodox Church in Hong Kong for twice. I cannot say that the services are bad. However, I did not really experience God much through its services. My experience is shared here in Reply 6 : http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48675.msg853462.html#msg853462

And I still struggle with one question.Many Miracles and manifestion of God's love are also keep happening in Non-Orthodox Church, How can I know Orthodox Church is the only true church? If Orthodox Church is the only True Church of GOd, why God does not make some or even more CLEAR signs for His true church so men can easily identify which church is true ?

[Hinterlander]

Having some experience with charismatic Protestantism, I think you may want to reflect on how you identify "the experience of God".  Personally, I used to equate it with tingles and emotional excitement.  After awhile, this was rather easily elicited by my own conscious effort or an emotional prayer or emotional song.  These days, while still a protestant, but serious inquirer, the emotionalism of praise music is increasingly grating and I've had a difficult time "plugging in" to my evangelical church.

The nearest DL is practiced 2+ hours away by interstate.  I've yet to visit.

PS:  I just gave myself the tingles to see if I still had it, sure enough.

[Schultz]

I' ve already gone to Orthodox Church in Hong Kong for twice. I cannot say that the services are bad. However, I did not really experience God much through its services. My experience is shared here in Reply 6 : http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48675.msg853462.html#msg853462

And I still struggle with one question.Many Miracles and manifestion of God's love are also keep happening in Non-Orthodox Church, How can I know Orthodox Church is the only true church? If Orthodox Church is the only True Church of GOd, why God does not make some or even more CLEAR signs for His true church so men can easily identify which church is true ?

1 Kings 19:11-12

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

To this I add the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man (Luke 16:19-31):

19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.[a] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

 

People who seek after signs as validation will never, ever be convinced even if Christ Himself appears to them. 

If I may be blunt, you want to be argued into Orthodoxy and that's just not going to happen.  Go to DL for a year and then come back to us.  Open your heart not just your mind.  Get an Orthodox prayerbook and say those prayers every day for a year.  Do what the Church asks without grumbling, without talking back, without arguing for 365 days.  Your "sign" will be how living an Orthodox life will slowly...and the key is SLOWLY...transform you.  Not all of us are St. Paul, in fact, most of us are not.  We will not have an experience like he did on the road to Damascus.  If you're looking for that, you're not looking for God, you're looking for yourself. 

Again, I'm being blunt and not trying to offend.  The way you're going about conversion is wrong, IMHO.  Slow and steady wins the race, as the fable of the Tortoise and the Hare goes. 

[ConfusedRC]

I don't mean to hijack a thread, but it's a similar question to one that I have: how does one convert to the Orthodox Church if there is no priest or church in the area. I'm in Vietnam and the only Orthodox Church in the country is a Russian mission that is only accessible after a two hour plane flight. I would go periodically if I knew the schedule, but I don't know it (and can't find any contact information). I don't think the DL is celebrated every week there.

[Nathanael]

And I still struggle with one question.Many Miracles and manifestion of God's love are also keep happening in Non-Orthodox Church, How can I know Orthodox Church is the only true church? If Orthodox Church is the only True Church of GOd, why God does not make some or even more CLEAR signs for His true church so men can easily identify which church is true ?

St. Ignatius Brianchaninov:
"The Spirit shows and manifests to people the Son co-natural to Him. The Holy Spirit spiritually forms the true Christian and transforms him into a dwelling place of God (cf. Eph. 2:22).

He represents Christ and instills Him in the inner man (cf. Eph. 3:16–17). He makes people God’s children by adoption, making them like unto Christ, establishing Christ-like qualities in them (cf. Jn. 14:6).

People who have been made children of God by adoption turn to Him in their prayers as to their Father, because the Holy Spirit very clearly and tangibly witnesses to the spirit of a person renewed by Him (cf. Rom 8:16) concerning that person’s union with God, his adoption by God.

And because ye are sons, says the Apostle, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father (Gal. 4:6).

Such worshippers are recognized as true worshippers of God! Such worshippers, who worship God in Spirit and in Truth, seek and receive God."
http://enlargingtheheart.wordpress.com/category/eastern-orthodox/page/2/

Through the reading the life of orthodox saints, you'll see that just in the orthodox church man can achieve perfect love and perfect humility. My new threat could explain you better what I mean: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48775.msg853456/topicseen.html#msg853456

[Nathanael]

I don't mean to hijack a thread, but it's a similar question to one that I have: how does one convert to the Orthodox Church if there is no priest or church in the area. I'm in Vietnam and the only Orthodox Church in the country is a Russian mission that is only accessible after a two hour plane flight. I would go periodically if I knew the schedule, but I don't know it (and can't find any contact information). I don't think the DL is celebrated every week there.

Lord have mercy! I've no idea. Maybe you could ask the embassy of Russia in Hanoi?? But at the beginning you could buy an orthodox prayer book and other orthodox books?!

[recent convert]

If Orthodoxy is not accessible then I would carefully discern & seek a church that is closest to it. Roman Catholic or certain Protestant churches, there may never be an Orthodox church to attend in many places. A person can only do what is humanly possible & one can only know Jesus Christ as savior, love God & neighbor, & do unto others as best as possible not being judged for doing so.

[ConfusedRC]

If Orthodoxy is not accessible then I would carefully discern & seek a church that is closest to it. Roman Catholic or certain Protestant churches, there may never be an Orthodox church to attend in many places. A person can only do what is humanly possible & one can only know Jesus Christ as savior, love God & neighbor, & do unto others as best as possible not being judged for doing so.

I'm currently RC but (strongly) considering a conversion to the RC.

[recent convert]

For those who might be seeking further info on Orthodox missions perhaps look here:   http://ocmc.org/                   

I do not mean to convey that anyone must become a missionary of course.

[stavros_388]

I don't mean to hijack a thread, but it's a similar question to one that I have: how does one convert to the Orthodox Church if there is no priest or church in the area. I'm in Vietnam and the only Orthodox Church in the country is a Russian mission that is only accessible after a two hour plane flight. I would go periodically if I knew the schedule, but I don't know it (and can't find any contact information). I don't think the DL is celebrated every week there.

Perhaps you can get information on the service schedule here: http://www.omhksea.org/contact/

At least flights in SE Asia are relatively cheap. 

[Cyrillic]

If Orthodoxy is not accessible then I would carefully discern & seek a church that is closest to it. Roman Catholic or certain Protestant churches, there may never be an Orthodox church to attend in many places. A person can only do what is humanly possible & one can only know Jesus Christ as savior, love God & neighbor, & do unto others as best as possible not being judged for doing so.

I'm currently RC but (strongly) considering a conversion to the RC.

 

[JamesR]

Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

Why not start with Western Europe instead 

We already have consistently throughout history but they rejected it 

If they won't take it, then we should spread it to the Asian people and maybe they will take it.

[Cyrillic]

Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

Why not start with Western Europe instead 

We already have consistently throughout history but they rejected it 

 

Well, no. The Orthodox never really sent missionaries to convert the West, which is strange. They did send some bishops to reunion councils but that didn't really work out.

[biro]

 

Well, no. The Orthodox never really sent missionaries to convert the West, which is strange. They did send some bishops to reunion councils but that didn't really work out.

Now I'm sad. 

[Kerdy]

Orthodox seems very weak in Asia. When will Orthodox Church start its preaching mission to Asia?

What is your problem, Sir?

Protestant is minority  in Hong Kong. There are 7 million people  in Hong Kong. Only 200000 people is Protestant. To be the Protestant,It is already not easy and very difficult.

Orthodox Faith is even much weaker than Protestant. If I convert to Orthodox Faith, I will be even harder and more difficult than to be a Protestant.

Living for Christ isn't easy.  We are told it will be difficult.  If you convert to Orthodoxy, anywhere in the world, it isn't easy anyway.  My priest told me before I converted most people don’t realize how difficult it is to be truly Orthodox.  He said it was a hard life, and he was right.  On the other hand, no matter how difficult it becomes, I will never regret becoming Orthodox.  It has forever changed my life and I would never, ever go back!  When you seek out God, you seek truth and sometimes truth is hard.  If you didn’t want truth, rather something easy, there are literally thousands of "Christian" denominations out there to join.

If you have two Orthodox Churches to attend...GO!  When I started, I lived in Arizona and there were zero Orthodox Churches within driving distance.  When I moved to South Carolina, the closest one was about an hour’s drive, depending on traffic.  That is the parish in which I was Christmated.  Consider yourself blessed to have two.  Go, learn, speak with the priest and if you are serious about becoming Orthodox, do it.  The most difficult step is the first.  I always tell people, you can’t be afraid and be Orthodox.  And remember, it isn’t Orthodoxy that is weak, unless you consider Christ weak, and I know you don’t!

[Kerdy]

I' ve already gone to Orthodox Church in Hong Kong for twice. I cannot say that the services are bad. However, I did not really experience God much through its services. My experience is shared here in Reply 6 : http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48675.msg853462.html#msg853462
 

It does take some time to understand the Liturgy and what each part means.  After three years of attending, I am still learning and will be for many more.  Once you learn why the Liturgy is done and what each part means, it will become more important and significant to you.

And I still struggle with one question. Many Miracles and manifestion of God's love are also keep happening in Non-Orthodox Church, How can I know Orthodox Church is the only true church? If Orthodox Church is the only True Church of GOd, why God does not make some or even more CLEAR signs for His true church so men can easily identify which church is true ?

Speak with the priest there.  Tell him your concerns and allow him to be your guide.  Face to face is so much better than the internet.

[Shanghaiski]

If there's no Orthodox church where you live now, maybe there will be in the future or you will move in the future. Either way, use the time you have wisely to pray and learn. Certainly don't miss an opoortunity to get to an Orthodox service if you can. Personally, I'd avoid non-Orthodox church shopping in that it just adds to confusion.

[Cyrillic]

 

Well, no. The Orthodox never really sent missionaries to convert the West, which is strange. They did send some bishops to reunion councils but that didn't really work out.

Now I'm sad. 

't is true. This point was stressed by the anglican William Palmer when he came to Russia to discuss the branch theory with the Russian Orthodox Church. He argued that because the Orthodox had never sent missionaries to Roman Catholic and Anglican countries they must have thought that those communions were local manifestations of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. He never got a reply to this one 

[mike]

Well, no. The Orthodox never really sent missionaries to convert the West, which is strange. They did send some bishops to reunion councils but that didn't really work out.

St. Ninian? St. Patrick? St. Augustine of Canterbury? St. Dionisius? St. Boniface? St. Ansgar? St. Gorazd of Prague?

[Cyrillic]

Well, no. The Orthodox never really sent missionaries to convert the West, which is strange. They did send some bishops to reunion councils but that didn't really work out.

St. Ninian? St. Patrick? St. Augustine of Canterbury? St. Dionisius? St. Boniface? St. Ansgar? St. Gorazd of Prague?

With Orthodox I meant the post-schism Greco-Muscovite Church. The Orthodox East never send missionaries on any significant scale to convert Western Europe from Roman Catholicism or Protestantism.

But this is a little bit off-topic, but interesting nonetheless. Why didn't the Orthodox try to convert Roman Catholics and Protestants in Western Europe?

[Dominika]

But this is a little bit off-topic, but interesting nonetheless. Why didn't the Orthodox try to convert Roman Catholics and Protestants in Western Europe?

Vast majority of Orthodox Christians had to fight with Muslims, so they were difficult to circumstances even to maintain the faith among cradles

[Cyrillic]

But this is a little bit off-topic, but interesting nonetheless. Why didn't the Orthodox try to convert Roman Catholics and Protestants in Western Europe?

Vast majority of Orthodox Christians had to fight with Muslims, so they were difficult to circumstances even to maintain the faith among cradles

The Tourcocratia from 1453-1832 perhaps stopped the Orthodox in the Middle East and the Balkans from spreading the faith but the Muscovites didn't do much missionary work in the West either

And even before 1453 and after 1832 there was no organised missionary work in Western Europe either.

[Dominika]

The Tourcocratia from 1453-1832 perhaps stopped the Orthodox in the Middle East and the Balkans from spreading the faith but the Muscovites didn't do much missionary work in the West either

I think Tatars and generally Muslims from Caucasus efficiently have stopped them

And even before 1453 and after 1832 there was no organised missionary work in Western Europe either.

Before there were also fights with Muslims as you know. Th year 1453 is a bit symbolic, because Byzantium had problems earlier.

After 1832 we (I mean Balkans) still had problems with Muslims, but as for e.g Russians to tell the truth - no idea. But it was short time to bolshevik revolution. And for Orthodox one thing was clear: no union political as Rome has done.

[Shanghaiski]

Well, no. The Orthodox never really sent missionaries to convert the West, which is strange. They did send some bishops to reunion councils but that didn't really work out.

St. Ninian? St. Patrick? St. Augustine of Canterbury? St. Dionisius? St. Boniface? St. Ansgar? St. Gorazd of Prague?

With Orthodox I meant the post-schism Greco-Muscovite Church. The Orthodox East never send missionaries on any significant scale to convert Western Europe from Roman Catholicism or Protestantism.

But this is a little bit off-topic, but interesting nonetheless. Why didn't the Orthodox try to convert Roman Catholics and Protestants in Western Europe?

They'd have been killed. Freedom of religion was not a recognized concept.

Besides this, relations with heretics and heterodox have always been different than with non-Christians.

[Shanghaiski]

But this is a little bit off-topic, but interesting nonetheless. Why didn't the Orthodox try to convert Roman Catholics and Protestants in Western Europe?

Vast majority of Orthodox Christians had to fight with Muslims, so they were difficult to circumstances even to maintain the faith among cradles

The Tourcocratia from 1453-1832 perhaps stopped the Orthodox in the Middle East and the Balkans from spreading the faith but the Muscovites didn't do much missionary work in the West either

And even before 1453 and after 1832 there was no organised missionary work in Western Europe either.

Then there were all those anti-Moscow crusades...Teutonic Knights, Poles, Swedes, Napoleon.

[Shanghaiski]

The Tourcocratia from 1453-1832 perhaps stopped the Orthodox in the Middle East and the Balkans from spreading the faith but the Muscovites didn't do much missionary work in the West either

I think Tatars and generally Muslims from Caucasus efficiently have stopped them

And even before 1453 and after 1832 there was no organised missionary work in Western Europe either.

Before there were also fights with Muslims as you know. Th year 1453 is a bit symbolic, because Byzantium had problems earlier.

After 1832 we (I mean Balkans) still had problems with Muslims, but as for e.g Russians to tell the truth - no idea. But it was short time to bolshevik revolution. And for Orthodox one thing was clear: no union political as Rome has done.

The French and British opposed Russia in open war over Russian religious influence in the Holy Land.

[walter1234]

I want to start the fasting next week.

How Orthodox Church understand 'fasting' according to its tradition?Can somebody give me some guidelines about how to Fast?

Or can somebody share your experience about fasting?( You may send Private Message to me if you do not want to share your experience in Public)

[mike]

I want to start the fasting next week.

There is no-fast period for New Calendarists until Jan 5.

How Orthodox Church understand 'fasting' according to its tradition?Can somebody give me some guidelines about how to Fast?

Consult the priest.