Author Topic: Schlock Icons  (Read 223328 times)

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Offline Antonis

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2745 on: January 01, 2016, 05:59:00 PM »
Is this a Holy Family icon depicting them as Arabs? Probably historically accurate, but I would call it "good schlock". It's creative, but not for church, definitely.
How is that historically accurate? The Arabs hadn't left their peninsula yet.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2746 on: January 09, 2016, 11:22:31 PM »
One hides amid pornography, angry music, television that shows the worst of mankind, misanthropic politics, an internet populace led by all the passions: and then one asks, "Where is God?"

I wonder why it is called OrthodoxChristianity.net?

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2747 on: January 09, 2016, 11:27:36 PM »
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Maria

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2748 on: January 10, 2016, 12:28:21 AM »
Must be a Roman Catholic hippie image.

I will not repost it.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2749 on: January 10, 2016, 03:37:54 AM »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2750 on: January 10, 2016, 04:01:18 AM »


This a neighbor of yours?

It's Shane's apotheosis!

Ur likely right. Porter has likely drank from his red cup tho. If not neighbors by land deed, then by spirit certainly.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Raylight

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2751 on: January 10, 2016, 04:16:00 AM »
Must be a Roman Catholic hippie image.

I will not repost it.

You hate the Catholic Church like a boyfriend hating his ex. Get over the break already. The Church moved on, and you should too. :)
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2752 on: January 11, 2016, 03:34:57 PM »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Keble

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2753 on: January 13, 2016, 04:52:52 PM »


From this editorial which isn't supportive of this kind of imagery.

Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2754 on: January 17, 2016, 09:41:51 PM »
"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?" - Mark 8:36 (DRA)

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2755 on: January 27, 2016, 10:14:23 PM »
The above is probably from the class of Not Even Wrong. What was the painter trying to do?

Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2756 on: January 28, 2016, 10:14:48 AM »
I think he was trying to make him look a bit more like the western 'St. Nick', with all the presents and the snow.
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Offline mike

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2757 on: January 28, 2016, 05:35:48 PM »


It's not an icond. He does not have a halo for example. It's a postcard and IMO better than those with actual icons.
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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2758 on: January 28, 2016, 07:02:59 PM »
No, he does have a halo It just sort of blends into the background. And I know it's not all that bad. I just found it a little too kitsch.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2759 on: January 28, 2016, 07:07:44 PM »


Me: ".......but I didn't need a Rooster for Christmas......"
St. Nicholas: "....*guilty look*....."
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Offline Seraffa

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2760 on: January 28, 2016, 07:09:03 PM »


I hate to say it, but this is what my beloved friend, Archbishop and Geron, Demetrios, would look like with his glasses if he was part of Hippiedom.
I still wanted to say "Despota" when I first saw it.  :)
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Offline mike

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2761 on: January 28, 2016, 07:20:24 PM »
No, he does have a halo It just sort of blends into the background. And I know it's not all that bad. I just found it a little too kitsch.

Kithc? Likely. Sacrilegous - not really? Postcards with real icons are worse.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2762 on: January 28, 2016, 08:25:08 PM »


Me: ".......but I didn't need a Rooster for Christmas......"
St. Nicholas: "....*guilty look*....."

LOL
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline Seraffa

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2763 on: January 29, 2016, 01:59:33 AM »
Has this one been done before? I wouldn't want to see this flying at me during prayer!  https://www.trinitystores.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/art_image_full/RLSEC.jpg
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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2764 on: January 29, 2016, 10:06:46 AM »
Has this one been done before? I wouldn't want to see this flying at me during prayer!  https://www.trinitystores.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/art_image_full/RLSEC.jpg
Perhaps not that one specifically, but a lot by that 'artist' have been on this thread. Robert Lentz has become synonymous with schlock.
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Offline Keble

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2765 on: January 29, 2016, 12:29:00 PM »
Has this one been done before? I wouldn't want to see this flying at me during prayer!  https://www.trinitystores.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/art_image_full/RLSEC.jpg
Perhaps not that one specifically, but a lot by that 'artist' have been on this thread. Robert Lentz has become synonymous with schlock.

Not so much shlock as, um, out there. Most of his stuff is of more recent Catholic saints and doesn't fit into any sort of Eastern ideas about iconography but there are a few of his that are rather creepy. I see that the horned god one doesn't seem to be available anymore, for example.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2766 on: January 30, 2016, 09:36:35 AM »
I'm not sure if this one hasn't been posted yet:



And some examples made by Suzanne Schleck (the last name is appropiate for her works):




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Offline Dominika

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2767 on: February 01, 2016, 11:24:38 AM »
Old schlock
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Offline Seraffa

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2768 on: February 01, 2016, 04:20:36 PM »
I'm not sure if this one hasn't been posted yet:



And some examples made by Suzanne Schleck (the last name is appropiate for her works):






.... true unawareness that writing an Icon doesn't License you to automatically Canonize someone. Pray for her!
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Offline Seraffa

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2769 on: February 01, 2016, 04:21:46 PM »
Old schlock


Is this confirmed Old Schlock or Old Photoshopped Schlock?
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2770 on: February 01, 2016, 04:41:24 PM »
^^ why photoshopped? I read it's from XVII century; it's quite probable, as it's easy to imagine not well-educated iconographers in Carpaths or in a Russian village (it's definitely Eastern Slavic)
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2771 on: February 01, 2016, 04:58:30 PM »
The content of that icon is/was very common in Western Christianity. It seems to have been "Easternized" in this icon. I think it looks very nice.
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2772 on: February 02, 2016, 06:57:27 PM »
Looks nice, and even follows the right style for an icon, but I would not want to see it in church.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2773 on: Yesterday at 06:06:57 AM »


Well, this one, if had been done not in Westernised style, probably would be quite normal
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2774 on: Yesterday at 07:20:47 AM »

Well, this one, if had been done not in Westernised style, probably would be quite normal


I'm afraid it wouldn't be. The Mother of God is not divine, and is not the source of the uncreated light. Only God is.

Icons of the Mother of God of the Sign, which show the radiance of divine light around Christ, are the right sort of iconographic portrayal, as are other icons which show the adult Christ surrounded by this light, such as Christ in Majesty, at His transfiguration, and in Resurrection icons.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2775 on: Yesterday at 07:26:08 AM »
Old schlock


Is this confirmed Old Schlock or Old Photoshopped Schlock?

It's an "iconographic" depiction of the vision of St Francis of Assisi after he had received the stigmata of the crucified Christ surrounded by seraphim. It is in no way compatible with Orthodox teaching or theology.
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Offline wgw

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2776 on: Yesterday at 08:44:02 AM »



Well, thank goodness Sophianism was officially repudiated.

Offline Seraffa

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2777 on: Yesterday at 10:47:29 PM »



Well, thank goodness Sophianism was officially repudiated.

They're also making the Spirit proceed from both "Son and Father" - but who are up in the right and left corners?
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2778 on: Yesterday at 10:53:24 PM »

Well, this one, if had been done not in Westernised style, probably would be quite normal


I'm afraid it wouldn't be. The Mother of God is not divine, and is not the source of the uncreated light. Only God is.

Icons of the Mother of God of the Sign, which show the radiance of divine light around Christ, are the right sort of iconographic portrayal, as are other icons which show the adult Christ surrounded by this light, such as Christ in Majesty, at His transfiguration, and in Resurrection icons.

I wish I could read Russian. Actually - there are Mandorlas around St. Symeon the New Theologian and St. Seraphim (transfigured in front of his disciple, Motovilov) in modern Orthodox Churches. We have one in downtown Dallas showing St. Seraphim. I like this one, but........if it really were the Transfiguration, Christ would be full grown, and all of the peasants would be fallen down to the ground, and the Cross and the Rainbow wouldn't have to be there.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2779 on: Yesterday at 11:42:24 PM »

I wish I could read Russian. Actually - there are Mandorlas around St. Symeon the New Theologian and St. Seraphim (transfigured in front of his disciple, Motovilov) in modern Orthodox Churches. We have one in downtown Dallas showing St. Seraphim. I like this one, but........if it really were the Transfiguration, Christ would be full grown, and all of the peasants would be fallen down to the ground, and the Cross and the Rainbow wouldn't have to be there.

Icons of Sts Symeon and Seraphim show them in supplication to Christ, who is shown in an upper corner of the icon. What is being conveyed in these icons is that these saints were given a taste of beholding and experiencing the divine Light. This is a very different thing to the Mother of God in frontal pose, surrounded by a mandorla, which speaks of her as generating that light, a concept contrary to Orthodox teaching.

This old post by Fr George is useful:

Mina,

In your example of an icon of the Theotokos standing alone with the mandora of Uncreated Light - the only other times when that mandorla appears in iconography, it is shown around Christ Himself in scenes when He, for one reason or another, is depicted performing an action not seen by human eyes: the trampling of Hades (the most famous example), the Transfiguration on Tabor (He was so bright they couldn't see/look at Him), holding the soul of the Theotokos at her Dormition, and sitting enthroned in the womb of the Theotokos Platytera (more spacious than the heavens).  Thus, depicting it around the Theotokos does indeed cause confusion, and the didactic message is lost - it doesn't matter if a coherent justification can be wrought or not, the message sent by traditional iconography is that the full-body halo (mandora, etc.) is depicting the incarnate Son of God in His Glory in a scene not seen by human eyes.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2780 on: Today at 12:04:18 AM »
Old schlock


Is this confirmed Old Schlock or Old Photoshopped Schlock?

It's an "iconographic" depiction of the vision of St Francis of Assisi after he had received the stigmata of the crucified Christ surrounded by seraphim. It is in no way compatible with Orthodox teaching or theology.
St Francis' vision was of a crucified Christ carried and enveloped by a single seraphim.  Not sure what the above is about.
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Offline Seraffa

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2781 on: Today at 12:16:09 AM »

I wish I could read Russian. Actually - there are Mandorlas around St. Symeon the New Theologian and St. Seraphim (transfigured in front of his disciple, Motovilov) in modern Orthodox Churches. We have one in downtown Dallas showing St. Seraphim. I like this one, but........if it really were the Transfiguration, Christ would be full grown, and all of the peasants would be fallen down to the ground, and the Cross and the Rainbow wouldn't have to be there.

Icons of Sts Symeon and Seraphim show them in supplication to Christ, who is shown in an upper corner of the icon. What is being conveyed in these icons is that these saints were given a taste of beholding and experiencing the divine Light. This is a very different thing to the Mother of God in frontal pose, surrounded by a mandorla, which speaks of her as generating that light, a concept contrary to Orthodox teaching.

This old post by Fr George is useful:

Mina,

In your example of an icon of the Theotokos standing alone with the mandora of Uncreated Light - the only other times when that mandorla appears in iconography, it is shown around Christ Himself in scenes when He, for one reason or another, is depicted performing an action not seen by human eyes: the trampling of Hades (the most famous example), the Transfiguration on Tabor (He was so bright they couldn't see/look at Him), holding the soul of the Theotokos at her Dormition, and sitting enthroned in the womb of the Theotokos Platytera (more spacious than the heavens).  Thus, depicting it around the Theotokos does indeed cause confusion, and the didactic message is lost - it doesn't matter if a coherent justification can be wrought or not, the message sent by traditional iconography is that the full-body halo (mandora, etc.) is depicting the incarnate Son of God in His Glory in a scene not seen by human eyes.

......And I  did not say the Theotokos was emanating the light when I was writing this, because I have taken iconography courses before. To be absolutely clear to you.

Here is an interesting example oThe Uncreated Light comes from the Cross, and then the little bit of round showing the Holy Spirit down its ray, instead of Christ's Blessing Hand the upper right hand corner of St. Seraphim's icon.. By putting it here I am not listing it as schlock.
(This is directed towards no one in particular, since I have mentioned St. Seraphim.)
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogspot.com/2012/01/st-seraphim-of-sarov-righteous.html
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2782 on: Today at 12:32:39 AM »
......And I  did not say the Theotokos was emanating the light when I was writing this, because I have taken iconography courses before. To be absolutely clear to you.

It's beside the point whether you said she did or not. What is being portrayed in that image is that the Mother of God is indeed producing the divine Light.

Here is an interesting example of the Holy Spirit in the upper right hand corner of St. Seraphim's icons.
(This is directed towards no one in particular, since I have mentioned St. Seraphim.)
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogspot.com/2012/01/st-seraphim-of-sarov-righteous.html

Do you mean the hand coming out of the upper left corner of the panel showing St Seraphim's "transfiguration", which is blessing him? This is a common iconographic motif, representing the presence of God in the person of Christ.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?