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Author Topic: Schlock Icons  (Read 75660 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2012, 12:42:27 AM »





So totally awesome! Thanks for posting. I especially like the top one with its juxtaposition of fat cherubs and blasphemous textual description.
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« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2012, 09:45:14 AM »

I am all for freedom of expression. I am also all for putting Robert Lentz in jail forever, with no painting supplies.

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One of my favorite "Schlock Icons"


Origen of Alexandria
Who drew (not wrote, because it is uncanonical) this Image?

The artist is William Hart McNichols, a Roman Catholic Jesuit priest, and arguably the best-known protege of Robert Lentz. He has said this about his mentor: "Lentz is regarded as one of the foremost authorities on icons today."

Says it all, really. The bulk of McNichols' work is no less egregious and blasphemous than Lentz's. McNichols has not only painted an "icon" of a declared heretic, but seems to be unaware that Origen was an avowed iconoclast. Oh, the irony!  Tongue Tongue Roll Eyes
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« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2012, 10:33:05 AM »


What a horrendous waste of the God-given talent of artistry.

I guess people don't realize that they will have to answer one day for how they've used these talents....and if they've multiplied them for good.

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« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2012, 10:03:27 PM »

I still don't understand why Robert Lentz and his ilk aren't censured by their hierarchs...
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« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2012, 10:13:47 PM »

I still don't understand why Robert Lentz and his ilk aren't censured by their hierarchs...

According to this, he has gotten in some trouble, over his sexuality. It remains to be seen what they'll do with him in the future. I wonder if they haven't given him the boot yet because his paintings seem to be printed in books more than used in churches. I don't know of any parishes which are so far gone that they actually use his stuff. (God willing.) I wonder why people like him don't just leave the monastic life, go be secular at home, if they want total absence of restraint...
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« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2012, 10:19:01 PM »

According to this, he has gotten in some trouble, over his sexuality. It remains to be seen what they'll do with him in the future. I wonder if they haven't given him the boot yet because his paintings seem to be printed in books more than used in churches. I don't know of any parishes which are so far gone that they actually use his stuff. (God willing.) I wonder why people like him don't just leave the monastic life, go be secular at home, if they want total absence of restraint...

But no friction over his icons? Strange...
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« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2012, 10:24:48 PM »

I still don't understand why Robert Lentz and his ilk aren't censured by their hierarchs...

According to this, he has gotten in some trouble, over his sexuality. It remains to be seen what they'll do with him in the future. I wonder if they haven't given him the boot yet because his paintings seem to be printed in books more than used in churches. I don't know of any parishes which are so far gone that they actually use his stuff. (God willing.) I wonder why people like him don't just leave the monastic life, go be secular at home, if they want total absence of restraint...

From this post:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,38979.msg626536.html#msg626536

Quote
Robert Lentz's heretical and blasphemous images have continued to be freely available for sale, in disobedience to the directive from Abp Michael Sheehan of Santa Fe to the distributor of these images to withdraw them for sale. The archbishop issued this directive in 2005. The distributor has evidently done nothing to curb their sale.
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« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2012, 10:25:46 PM »

According to this, he has gotten in some trouble, over his sexuality. It remains to be seen what they'll do with him in the future. I wonder if they haven't given him the boot yet because his paintings seem to be printed in books more than used in churches. I don't know of any parishes which are so far gone that they actually use his stuff. (God willing.) I wonder why people like him don't just leave the monastic life, go be secular at home, if they want total absence of restraint...

But no friction over his icons? Strange...

True. Having seen how bad they can get, yeesh... Given what LBK posted, I hope the local bishop tries to stop him again.
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« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2012, 10:28:20 PM »

Biro, our posts must have crossed.  Smiley
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« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2012, 10:41:59 PM »

Biro, our posts must have crossed.  Smiley

Sorry.  Embarrassed
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« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2012, 11:23:26 PM »


What is the exact intent of this "Icon?"
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« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2012, 11:26:17 PM »

To throw a Santa Maria on something in order to make it a holy remembrance, I suppose.
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« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2012, 11:27:58 PM »

That the Mother of God has sorrow for those who died Sep. 11, 2001 and prays for them.
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« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2012, 11:46:21 PM »

That the Mother of God has sorrow for those who died Sep. 11, 2001 and prays for them.
the planes are there.
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« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2012, 12:17:03 AM »

That the Mother of God has sorrow for those who died Sep. 11, 2001 and prays for them.
the planes are there.

Perhaps the artist had some sorrowful Mary intent going on with the sins of the world causing her pain.
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« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2012, 12:36:10 AM »

This painting is a commentary on the events of 9/11. As well as appropriating a sociopolitical event as an "iconographic" subject, the placing of the burning Twin Towers over the Virgin's body, in the manner of the icons of the Mother of God of the Sign, is just preposterous. Were the buildings the incarnation of God?
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« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2012, 12:50:26 AM »

No, but she holds on to the buildings, which shows concern and love. Hence her love for the people who were there.
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« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2012, 01:52:22 AM »

No, but she holds on to the buildings, which shows concern and love. Hence her love for the people who were there.

It is still appropriating a sociopolitical event as an iconographic subject. Iconography is concerned with expressing divine Truth, and should never be used as a vehicle for the promotion of "causes", not even "good" ones. The two aircraft flying on either side of the Virgin are in the position normally occupied by a pair of seraphim in many Of the Sign icons, recalling the hymn It is truly meet. Ridiculous and blasphemous. No-one has the right to take liberties with established and accepted iconographic imagery in the name of artistic "creativity", and presume to call such work an icon.
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« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2012, 07:07:54 AM »

That the Mother of God has sorrow for those who died Sep. 11, 2001 and prays for them.
the planes are there.

Instead of the angels:

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« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2012, 10:23:31 AM »

No, but she holds on to the buildings, which shows concern and love. Hence her love for the people who were there.

It is still appropriating a sociopolitical event as an iconographic subject. Iconography is concerned with expressing divine Truth, and should never be used as a vehicle for the promotion of "causes", not even "good" ones. The two aircraft flying on either side of the Virgin are in the position normally occupied by a pair of seraphim in many Of the Sign icons, recalling the hymn It is truly meet. Ridiculous and blasphemous. No-one has the right to take liberties with established and accepted iconographic imagery in the name of artistic "creativity", and presume to call such work an icon.

You are aware that the artist probably isn't Orthodox to begin with? Also, that I've never seen this picture in a church?

You don't get to call penalties on players who aren't even in the game. It's not like anyone is forcing you to reverence the thing. When did you become the icon police?
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« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2012, 11:30:47 AM »


LBK is a well versed in iconography and the history thereof.

I have yet to disagree with any statement she has made pertaining to icons....and if I had a question on icons, LBK would definitely be the first one I would ask.

As for the artist being "innocent" and simply expressing their artistic freedom....well, they made the painting to resemble an icon....a well known icon, no less....therefore, they aren't all innocent.

What if someone took a photo of a person doing some silly act...and then they stuck your face in place of the original person on the photo.  Would you be offended?  It's ridiculing you, and perhaps putting you in a not so positive light....and yet, they are simply being artistic....so, it must be okay.


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« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2012, 06:43:42 PM »

No, but she holds on to the buildings, which shows concern and love. Hence her love for the people who were there.

It is still appropriating a sociopolitical event as an iconographic subject. Iconography is concerned with expressing divine Truth, and should never be used as a vehicle for the promotion of "causes", not even "good" ones. The two aircraft flying on either side of the Virgin are in the position normally occupied by a pair of seraphim in many Of the Sign icons, recalling the hymn It is truly meet. Ridiculous and blasphemous. No-one has the right to take liberties with established and accepted iconographic imagery in the name of artistic "creativity", and presume to call such work an icon.

You are aware that the artist probably isn't Orthodox to begin with? Also, that I've never seen this picture in a church?

You don't get to call penalties on players who aren't even in the game. It's not like anyone is forcing you to reverence the thing. When did you become the icon police?

When folks, Orthodox or otherwise, are painting images that resemble icons, and are calling them icons, then I do have the right and responsibility to call them out. Iconography is not a plaything for satisfying artistic whims and fancies.

To a non-Orthodox person, it is iconography which is the single most visible and definitive element which distinguishes the Orthodox Church from all others. It is our responsibility to ensure this holy and priceless treasure of our Church is preserved and defended against the influx of elements foreign to Orthodox belief and doctrine. The iconophiles who suffered and often paid with their lives during the iconoclastic upheavals of past centuries deserve nothing less in their honor.
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« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2012, 07:00:07 PM »

I didn't say I like Robert Lentz. In fact, I don't.

But he's not in your church, and no one is making you buy or use his stupid paintings.

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« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2012, 07:05:42 PM »

I didn't say I like Robert Lentz. In fact, I don't.

But he's not in your church, and no one is making you buy or use his stupid paintings.


He is promoting his blasphemies as icons, he is holding himself to be a master iconographer, and he is influencing others to follow his example. I have also criticized the work of Fr Stamatios Skliris, an Orthodox priest, another "authority on iconography", who paints images he calls icons, but which are blasphemous in their own way. I hold to no double standard.
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« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2012, 07:19:12 PM »

I didn't say I like Robert Lentz. In fact, I don't.

But he's not in your church, and no one is making you buy or use his stupid paintings.


He is promoting his blasphemies as icons, he is holding himself to be a master iconographer, and he is influencing others to follow his example. I have also criticized the work of Fr Stamatios Skliris, an Orthodox priest, another "authority on iconography", who paints images he calls icons, but which are blasphemous in their own way. I hold to no double standard.

Okay. I'm done with you.
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« Reply #70 on: November 08, 2012, 07:45:53 PM »

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« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2012, 08:07:14 PM »

Quote
The Spirit has appeared in the form of a dove, as fiery tongues, and as the cloud of uncreated light surrounding Christ at His Transfiguration, but never in the form in this "icon".
Really? I've never heard that position. I know that they were the uncreated energies, but have never heard specifically the Holy Spirit. Does that mean that all manifestations of the uncreated energies in light are the Holy Spirit specifically?

Don't mean to be confrontational, truly interested, I've never heard it.

And I don't see the problem with:



What exactly is the problem with this one?

I have seen many such icons in "normal" schools of iconography, even one where St. Maria, the mother of St. Anne, was present, holding St. Anne, who was holding the Theotokos, who was holding Christ. I believe it is called the "generation" icon.

Again, truly interested.  Tongue
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« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2012, 10:00:09 PM »

The relative sizes of St Anna to the other figures is significant. Painting someone of greater or smaller size is a common expression of the relative rank/importance of one person to another. The icon Savior of Smolensk shows Christ standing, with the saints Alexander of Svir and Barlaam of Khutin prostrating themselves at His left and right. The saints are shown in much smaller proportion to that of Christ, as an expression of humility before Him.



Similarly, in icons of the feast of Mid-pentecost, which commemorates the twelve-year-old Christ teaching the elders in the Temple at Jerusalem, the Child is shown as proportionately the size of the adults in the composition, to express the greatness of His wisdom, a theme which pervades the hymnography of the feast.



It may be asked, then why isn't the Christ-child shown similarly sized in icons of the Mother of God? Because these icons are primarily concerned with what the Church teaches about the Mother of God - and such teachings do not in any way diminish the divinity of her Child.

EDIT: Therefore, painting St Anna as foremost in size speaks of her superiority over both her daughter, and of Christ Emmanuel. This is the error of this composition, and an error shared with the corresponding Paternity image, which shows an enthroned God the Father as an old man, with a much smaller Christ in his lap, who, in turn is holding a dove. representing the Holy Spirit. Such a portrayal expresses a ranking in importance of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity, which is utterly contrary to Orthodox teaching.
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« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2012, 11:30:46 PM »

Quote
The Spirit has appeared in the form of a dove, as fiery tongues, and as the cloud of uncreated light surrounding Christ at His Transfiguration, but never in the form in this "icon".
Really? I've never heard that position. I know that they were the uncreated energies, but have never heard specifically the Holy Spirit. Does that mean that all manifestations of the uncreated energies in light are the Holy Spirit specifically?

Don't mean to be confrontational, truly interested, I've never heard it.


Many a Trinitarian hymn expresses the association of all three persons of the Holy Trinity with light, brightness, and radiance. Here are some examples:

I glorify Three without beginning, God in one Essence, Father, Son and Spirit, a single Light in threefold radiance, Kingdom of equal might in identity without confusion.

A Unity in three Persons I praise and a Trinity worshipped in one Nature, God the three in one, Light of triple sun, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I praise the Godhead, Unity in three Persons: for the Father is Light, the Son is Light, and the Spirit is Light, of Light remaining undivided, shining forth in oneness of Nature, and in three rays of the Persons.


The Holy Spirit in particular is associated with enlightenment - an awakening to the things of God, most potently revealed at Pentecost, where humble laymen were transformed into Apostles who were led into all truth by that very Spirit.

A major theme of the feast of the Transfiguration is light and enlightenment; the same themes are also prevalent in the feasts of Theophany (known in Greek tradition also as Ton Photon (Feast of Lights) and Pentecost. All three are Trinitarian feasts.
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« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2012, 11:52:57 PM »


LBK is a well versed in iconography and the history thereof.

I have yet to disagree with any statement she has made pertaining to icons....and if I had a question on icons, LBK would definitely be the first one I would ask.

As for the artist being "innocent" and simply expressing their artistic freedom....well, they made the painting to resemble an icon....a well known icon, no less....therefore, they aren't all innocent.

What if someone took a photo of a person doing some silly act...and then they stuck your face in place of the original person on the photo.  Would you be offended?  It's ridiculing you, and perhaps putting you in a not so positive light....and yet, they are simply being artistic....so, it must be okay.




I agree. LBK is the only real iconography expert on these forums and it's a bit disheartening to see the disrespect she gets shown whenever she offers an opinion.
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« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2012, 12:38:08 AM »

Very interesting, thank you LBK.

What would you say of icons of Sts. Joachim and Anna with the young Theotokos standing between them? Is that permissible because it is historically accurate, as in, is size forfeit as a symbol when used in a historically accurate situation, or should she be larger like Christ in the mid-Pentecost icon?

Thanks!
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« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2012, 12:53:24 AM »

Very interesting, thank you LBK.

What would you say of icons of Sts. Joachim and Anna with the young Theotokos standing between them? Is that permissible because it is historically accurate, as in, is size forfeit as a symbol when used in a historically accurate situation, or should she be larger like Christ in the mid-Pentecost icon?

Thanks!

It would not be correct to show the little child of Joachim and Anna as adult-sized, though she is shown as a miniature adult, with the characteristic colors of her garments and the stars of perpetual virginity on her shoulders and forehead. The same goes for other icons of the Mother of God as a child, as in when she is held by her mother St Anna, and in the festal icon of her Entry into the Temple.
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« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2012, 12:55:08 AM »

Ah, neat, thanks!
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« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2012, 01:18:11 AM »

More on the Trinitarian nature of the feast of the Transfiguration - selections from Vespers and Matins:

Christ, the Light that shone before the sun, who in the body went about the earth, having fulfilled before His Crucifixion, as befitted His divine majesty, all things pertaining to His fearful dispensation, this day has mystically manifest the image of the Trinity upon Mount Tabor. For taking the three disciples He had expressly chosen, Peter, James, and John, He led them up into the mountain; and for a short time He concealed the flesh He had assumed, and was transfigured before them, making manifest the excellence of the original beauty, though not in its full perfection. For while giving them full assurance He also spared them, lest at the sight they should lose their lives: yet they saw as much as their bodily eyes were able to receive. He likewise called before Him the chief prophets Moses and Elijah, who testified to His divinity, that He is indeed the true brightness of the essence of the Father, the Ruler of the living and the dead. Therefore a cloud wrapped them like a tent; and out of the cloud from above loudly sounded the voice of the Father, testifying and saying: This is my beloved Son, whom I have begotten without change from the womb before the morning star: Him have I sent to save those who are baptized in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and who confess with faith that the One Power of the Godhead is indivisible. Listen to Him. And, O Christ our God, supreme in goodness, who loves mankind, shine upon us with the light of Your unapproachable glory and make us worthy to inherit Your never-ending Kingdom.

You ascended the mount with Your Disciples, and shone in the glory of the Father. Moses and Elijah were present with You; for the law and the prophets serve You, as You are God. And the Father designated for You natural prophetship, calling You “Son.” Therefore, we praise Him, with You, and with the Holy Spirit.

The pillar of fire plainly showed to Moses Christ transfigured, and the cloud pointed clearly to the grace of the Spirit that overshadowed Mount Tabor.

Come and hear me, O you peoples: going up into the holy and heavenly mountain, let us stand in spirit in the city of the living God, and let us gaze with our minds at the spiritual Godhead of the Father and the Spirit, shining forth in the Only-begotten Son.

Today on Tabor in the manifestation of Your light, O Word, unaltered Light from the Light of the unbegotten Father, we have seen the Father as Light and the Spirit as Light, guiding with light the whole creation.
(Exaposteilarion of the feast)

« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 01:25:11 AM by LBK » Logged
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« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2012, 06:01:10 AM »

Oooh, this one's choice. Painted by another of the Lentz-McNichols circle, a member of the Secular Franciscan order:



The artist's spiel:

Under the oak at Mamre, Abraham entertained heavenly messengers.  Desert hospitality required one to offer refreshment, yet he was eager.  Sharing food is delight, generating fruits of unity.  Where two or more are gathered…  In this icon, (the prototype, The Holy Trinity icon by Rublev), the messengers are for our times.  In the center is Tom Fox, a 54 yr. old, peaceable, ex-Marine musician, father of two who served 3 missions in Iraq with the Christian Peacemaker Teams. Two nights before he was kidnapped, Tom was inspired as a Quaker to lead his friends in celebrating Eucharist, which was not part of his tradition.  This, I feel, manifested his faith that all shared one body.  Months of kidnapping ended with Tom’s murder March 9, 2006.

The figure to the left is Margaret Hassan, a 59 yr old Catholic Dubliner who married an Iraqi Muslim and moved to Iraq. For 30 years, through the Iran –Iraq war, 42 days of Gulf War carpet-bombing, 13 years of crushing sanctions and the current war begun in 2003, she served the families and suffering children that were her new family.  She served as head of Care International in Iraq for years when shockingly in Oct. 2004, she was kidnapped and likely shot to death Nov. 9.   Her body was never recovered.

65 yr old Italian Consolata Sister Leonella Sgorbati, (figure to the right), spent 36 yrs loving the poor in Kenya and Somalia.  Joyful and humorous, she too was beloved by her co-workers and the people of her ministry.  Leaving her hospital employment in Mogadishu Sept 17, 2006, accompanied by her Muslim bodyguard, a father of 4, they were ambushed and shot to death in the wake of comments by the Pope that enflamed many Muslims. Dying on the curb, she whispered, “I forgive, I forgive!”

The background in this icon commemorates the 9/11 attacks and the Al Amariyah Allied bombing of Bagdad, 1991, where a civilian shelter was targeted, incinerating 408, the heat of which left carbon prints of women and children on the walls.

War, economics, aggression, twisted fervor seeking God’s favor in fulfilling His ‘will’; these new messengers reaffirm; they shout truth in response; it is in compassion, in dialog, seeing neighbor, sharing at table, WE ARE ALL ONE BODY!


Have these people no fear when they paint such abominations?

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« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2012, 06:03:09 AM »

The artist who painted the above butchered "Trinity" is also the one who produced the "original" Mother of God of 9/11. Here it is, along with his description:



Our Mother of Sorrows offers healing liniment to those suffering from the tragedies of September 11, 2001. Old Spanish and Mexican images of Our Lady of Sorrows as well as the traditional icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help influenced the conception of this icon. The angels of the Perpetual Help icon, as well as their instruments of Christ's crucifixion are replaced by the American and United Airlines planes. The planes symbolize the victims at the Pentagon and Flight 93, as well as both planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. The planes invade the sacred space of the mandorla, the cloud of heavenly radiance that surrounds Mary. Represented by the almond shape and the radiating fiery rings, the mandorla is the intersection of heavenly and earthly realms. The stars of heaven surround Mary, the universal mother, in her sorrowful yet hopeful glance. The old church Slavonic lettering in gold leaf describes Mary as the Theotokos, the Mother of God.

Traditional images of Our Lady of Sorrows depict Mary's heart pierced by swords, symbolic of the seven times her heart was broken by the passion of her Son. Within Mary's embrace the oval which surrounds the World Trade Center symbolizes her sacred heart, but even more so her womb. In this icon, Our Mother embraces all those lost with her enduring love, just as she embraced the Child in her womb. The towers are depicted as they appeared on that bright, sunny morning in early September. The smoke, stylized and sanctified, bears witness to the ultimate sacrifice of so many on September 11.




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« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2012, 06:37:07 AM »

... and any collection of schlock icons wouldn't be complete without mention of the Dancing Saints extravaganza of syncretism which disgraces the walls of the Episcopal church of St Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco. Here are some samples:





The three figures in the middle are Origen, Malcolm X, and Queen Elizabeth I.



The lady in the purple suit in the middle of the upper section is Eleanor Roosevelt. The naked woman in the lower left (with horse, which is wearing more clothes than she is) is Lady Godiva.
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« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2012, 02:50:16 PM »

Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow.




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« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2012, 05:08:09 PM »

The artist who painted the above butchered "Trinity" is also the one who produced the "original" Mother of God of 9/11. Here it is, along with his description:

Our Mother of Sorrows offers healing liniment to those suffering from the tragedies of September 11, 2001. Old Spanish and Mexican images of Our Lady of Sorrows as well as the traditional icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help influenced the conception of this icon. The angels of the Perpetual Help icon, as well as their instruments of Christ's crucifixion are replaced by the American and United Airlines planes. The planes symbolize the victims at the Pentagon and Flight 93, as well as both planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. The planes invade the sacred space of the mandorla, the cloud of heavenly radiance that surrounds Mary. Represented by the almond shape and the radiating fiery rings, the mandorla is the intersection of heavenly and earthly realms. The stars of heaven surround Mary, the universal mother, in her sorrowful yet hopeful glance. The old church Slavonic lettering in gold leaf describes Mary as the Theotokos, the Mother of God.

Traditional images of Our Lady of Sorrows depict Mary's heart pierced by swords, symbolic of the seven times her heart was broken by the passion of her Son. Within Mary's embrace the oval which surrounds the World Trade Center symbolizes her sacred heart, but even more so her womb. In this icon, Our Mother embraces all those lost with her enduring love, just as she embraced the Child in her womb. The towers are depicted as they appeared on that bright, sunny morning in early September. The smoke, stylized and sanctified, bears witness to the ultimate sacrifice of so many on September 11.


I guessed it right! I thought it had something to do with her sorrow.
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« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2012, 05:08:19 PM »

Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow.


Oh, yes, especially the Gerber Baby Jesus sitting in the old man's lap in the cupola. What a crying shame that the original artwork was reproduced when the cathedral was rebuilt! What a missed opportunity to fill it with the finest iconography and make it the treasure it deserved to be!  Angry Cry Cry Cry

There's even an "icon" of St Juliana Olshanskaya with her right hand raised in blessing, with the fingers arranged in the way priests bless. Unbelievable.
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« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2012, 05:10:46 PM »

Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow.
[images]

I personally find those beautiful, icons or not.
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« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2012, 07:53:48 PM »

Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow.
[images]

I personally find those beautiful, icons or not.

They are hideous. The palette looks to have been chosen by a six year old.
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
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« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2012, 08:06:34 PM »

Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow.
[images]

I personally find those beautiful, icons or not.

They are hideous. The palette looks to have been chosen by a six year old.

Agreed!! and the anodyne, bland renditions of the individual saints, full of shadows and three-dimensionality, is hardly inspiring or conducive to prayer. The overblown and vapid depictions of the feasts, and, of course, the "trinity" in the central cupola, are no better.

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« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2012, 08:09:03 PM »

LBK can you tell me why that Cathedral chose those icons?

I may have a surprise tonight for OC.net Stay tuned.
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– St. Ambrose of Milan
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« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2012, 09:18:23 PM »

LBK can you tell me why that Cathedral chose those icons?

A short explanation:

The original Cathedral of Christ the Savior was built over more than 20 years, starting in about 1824, IIRC. The reason for its construction was to commemorate the defeat of Napoleon and his attempt to conquer Russia. By this time, iconography, not just in the Russian empire, but also in the Orthodox world as a whole, had been almost completely overtaken by art overwhelmingly of western style and content, a process that had begun in earnest from the turn of the sixteenth century. Hence the choice of art for the 1820s cathedral.

The cathedral was personally chosen for demolition by Josef Stalin in 1931, who also appointed a film crew to officially document the destruction, as a gesture of the dominance and superiority of Soviet power over the Church. The footage still exists. In its place, a grand Hall of the People of massive proportions was proposed. Yet, any attempt at building anything of magnitude on the site was a structural failure. Eventually, the site became the city's swimming pool complex.  Wink

When, after the fall of the Soviet system sixty years later, it was decided, quite rightly, that the cathedral be rebuilt as a symbol of the rebirth and renewal of Orthodoxy, and a repudiation of the Soviet atheism which caused the destruction of the original. Unfortunately, the plan to replicate the original building also included reproducing the original artwork.  Sad Sad Sad
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