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Author Topic: Schlock Icons  (Read 75594 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #990 on: September 25, 2013, 08:39:40 AM »

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is the Prosopon School of Iconography?  How is it different from other types of icons?

Prosopon is the name of the entity set up years ago by an iconographer called Vladislav Andreyev. They run iconographic workshops and the like which are very well-patronized, and the work is characterized by a distinctive translucent look.

PM me if you want to learn more about why I am critical of this school's MO.
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« Reply #991 on: September 25, 2013, 12:47:56 PM »

Perhaps not full-blown schlock, but the Mother of God and St. Joseph look so tired here:



Granted, raising the Son of Man probably was exhausting.
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« Reply #992 on: September 25, 2013, 01:38:11 PM »

LBK,

What do you think of the work of Fr. Patrick Doolan?
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« Reply #993 on: September 25, 2013, 07:36:58 PM »

LBK,

What do you think of the work of Fr. Patrick Doolan?

So far, I haven't seen anything of his which would give me cause for concern.
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« Reply #994 on: September 25, 2013, 07:43:42 PM »

Funny thing about that emperor mosaic- the name above him has been scratched out and rewritten several times, because Empress Zoe kept changing husbands.

Not by choice. Sort of thing happens when you're the only claim to dynastic legitimacy.

Is outrage! Such shenanigans occurred in holy Orthodox utopia under holy imperial system before world ruined by west? Must be media bias!!! Wink

That's why LBK LBK ignored them.

Putting words in my mouth, and resorting to cheap shots yet again - the mark of someone who is only interested in drawing attention to himself.  Angry Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

So can you tell the difference (or lack thereof) between those fresco and mosaics?

Go back and read my posts. They are written in plain English.

You have not yet addressed Michal's point about living emperors/ empresses being depicted in the mosaics (e.g. Zoe and her series of husbands).

Sts Constantine and Justinian were proclaimed saints, and their earthly lives had well and truly ended by the time the mosaic Michal posted in #941 was made. As for Zoe and her husbands, if any of them were alive, then this is unacceptable, even more so if the figures bear haloes.

That's how things were done. The halo, btw, is not an exclusive signifier of sanctity.
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« Reply #995 on: September 27, 2013, 12:42:37 PM »

Maybe it's not so schlock as some examples presented above, but...

What's the purpose Huh
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« Reply #996 on: September 27, 2013, 12:48:44 PM »

^^^LOL
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« Reply #997 on: September 27, 2013, 12:59:22 PM »

Maybe it's not so schlock as some examples presented above, but...

What's the purpose Huh

Seen that yesterday. Was looking for Putin.

Also wonder how many people today dress like Byzantines or XIXth century peasants.
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« Reply #998 on: September 27, 2013, 01:59:55 PM »

I'm guessing this could be an icon to celebrate the Signing of the Act of Canonical Communion between ROCOR and MP.  Maybe that is Met. LAURUS and Patriarch Alexei II in the middle.

The guys in suits are state bureaucrats who attended and the kids on the right are wearing folk kitsch for some later celebratory performances during the festivities during post-Liturgy meals?  I understand it is well within iconographic tradition to created certain fabrications of events that not historical feasts, but it always seems odd to see people in icons dressed in modern garb.
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« Reply #999 on: September 27, 2013, 06:52:22 PM »

Maybe it's not so schlock as some examples presented above, but...

What's the purpose Huh

It's simply a painting of the act of reconciliation between ROCOR and the MP in 2007, painted in an "iconographic" style. It is intended as a document of the event, not as something to be venerated.
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« Reply #1000 on: October 02, 2013, 12:35:27 PM »

Holy Family of Christ according to The DaVinci Code:

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« Reply #1001 on: October 02, 2013, 01:45:44 PM »

What is the  name of the child?
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« Reply #1002 on: October 02, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »

What is the  name of the child?

Sarah, of course.
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« Reply #1003 on: October 02, 2013, 02:01:49 PM »

Why is the Holy Family of Mr and Mrs Jesus Christ "Holy Family II"?  You'd think any family in which he was husband and father would be "Holy Family I" by default. 
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« Reply #1004 on: October 02, 2013, 02:19:57 PM »

Why is the Holy Family of Mr and Mrs Jesus Christ "Holy Family II"?  You'd think any family in which he was husband and father would be "Holy Family I" by default. 
Maybe this is His second marriage.
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« Reply #1005 on: October 02, 2013, 07:30:29 PM »

Why is the Holy Family of Mr and Mrs Jesus Christ "Holy Family II"?  You'd think any family in which he was husband and father would be "Holy Family I" by default. 
Maybe this is His second marriage.

Hey now, it's actually only the first since the other one was annulled, and never really a marriage in the first place. Cool
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« Reply #1006 on: October 02, 2013, 08:19:31 PM »

Holy Family of Christ according to The DaVinci Code:



Who wrote and printed this "icon"?

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« Reply #1007 on: October 02, 2013, 08:22:30 PM »

Holy Family of Christ according to The DaVinci Code:



Who wrote and printed this "icon"?

By this person from DeviantArt.

They have "icons" of various figures, such as Lucifer, Judas, Giordano Bruno, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I saw somewhere that they're a secular humanist or something.
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« Reply #1008 on: October 02, 2013, 08:30:48 PM »

More DeviantArt schlock.






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« Reply #1009 on: October 02, 2013, 09:48:50 PM »

This ought to go over well with the religion of pieces. 
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« Reply #1010 on: October 02, 2013, 09:50:05 PM »



LION-O!!
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« Reply #1011 on: October 02, 2013, 10:07:21 PM »

If those were real icons, the Greek letters for W, T, and F would have to appear in the background.
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« Reply #1012 on: October 03, 2013, 01:03:40 PM »

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« Reply #1013 on: October 03, 2013, 01:13:25 PM »





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« Reply #1014 on: October 03, 2013, 02:23:16 PM »

St. Nicholas the Tsar is not depicted as the redeemer, that would be Monarchotheism, the belief that the King is god-like. However, he is a martyr. The beheaded head of St. Nicholas is also as bad, because only St. John the Baptist is depicted as bearing his head. Rasputin looks demonic, but St. Hitler(insert interrobang here) Now THAT TAKES THE CAKE! This is on the same level as the Pussy Riot stunt, if not worse, because Hitler did many terrible actions, Lord have mercy on his soul.
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« Reply #1015 on: October 03, 2013, 04:01:03 PM »

Holy crap at the hitler one.
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« Reply #1016 on: October 03, 2013, 04:08:39 PM »


Such a waste of perfectly good talent. The image is interesting though. I'm curious if there is any canonical precedents for this sort of icon.

For anyone interested in seeing more such nonsense, I'd highly recommend using Google Image search engine. Oh, the crazy things you'll find...
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« Reply #1017 on: October 03, 2013, 04:13:00 PM »


Such a waste of perfectly good talent. The image is interesting though. I'm curious if there is any canonical precedents for this sort of icon.

For anyone interested in seeing more such nonsense, I'd highly recommend using Google Image search engine. Oh, the crazy things you'll find...

My favourite too. Christ looks like He is playing the guitar.
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« Reply #1018 on: October 03, 2013, 04:14:03 PM »

The one good thing is that most of those came from Russian schlock icon collections, and not from pages that liked them. They called them something that looked like pseudo-icon (LBK correct me on this as I'm sure I'm getting it wrong).
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« Reply #1019 on: October 03, 2013, 04:17:27 PM »

Quote from: Hawkeye

Such a waste of perfectly good talent. The image is interesting though. I'm curious if there is any canonical precedents for this sort of icon.

For anyone interested in seeing more such nonsense, I'd highly recommend using Google Image search engine. Oh, the crazy things you'll find...

My favourite too. Christ looks like He is playing the guitar.

Before I saw that it was a sword, I thought Jesus was holding a rifle. Like he was about to shoot opponents of Holy Russia.
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« Reply #1020 on: October 03, 2013, 04:35:50 PM »

Holy crap at the hitler one.
Athos was under Hitler's personal protection at one time.

But I suspect this particular work was done for shock value. See how people are shocked?
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« Reply #1021 on: October 03, 2013, 11:19:45 PM »

St. Nicholas the Tsar is not depicted as the redeemer, that would be Monarchotheism, the belief that the King is god-like. However, he is a martyr. The beheaded head of St. Nicholas is also as bad, because only St. John the Baptist is depicted as bearing his head. Rasputin looks demonic, but St. Hitler(insert interrobang here) Now THAT TAKES THE CAKE! This is on the same level as the Pussy Riot stunt, if not worse, because Hitler did many terrible actions, Lord have mercy on his soul.

The intent of these images is precisely to express the idea that the assassination of Tsar Nicholas was, indeed, a sacrifice of redemption for the Russian people, on a par with the sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of humanity. Those who subscribe to this heresy and blasphemy are known as Tsarebozhniki.
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« Reply #1022 on: October 03, 2013, 11:35:09 PM »

The intent of these images is precisely to express the idea that the assassination of Tsar Nicholas was, indeed, a sacrifice of redemption for the Russian people, on a par with the sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of humanity. Those who subscribe to this heresy and blasphemy are known as Tsarebozhniki.

Harking back to an earlier conversation, such folk should not be confused with tvorozhniki, which are wonderful and innocent of any wrongdoing.
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« Reply #1023 on: October 05, 2013, 10:28:05 AM »



Not sure how the Tsar Paul icon is necessarily shlock. He hasn't been glorified is all.
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« Reply #1024 on: October 05, 2013, 10:31:06 AM »

Holy crap at the hitler one.

I know. It is terribly offensive. Canonically, Hitler is not allowed to be portrayed as a saint because he is not Orthodox. Instead, he needs only to be displayed as a little man beneath the foot of St. Joseph Vissarionovich  Djugashvili.
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« Reply #1025 on: October 05, 2013, 10:34:24 AM »

St. Nicholas the Tsar is not depicted as the redeemer, that would be Monarchotheism, the belief that the King is god-like. However, he is a martyr. The beheaded head of St. Nicholas is also as bad, because only St. John the Baptist is depicted as bearing his head. Rasputin looks demonic, but St. Hitler(insert interrobang here) Now THAT TAKES THE CAKE! This is on the same level as the Pussy Riot stunt, if not worse, because Hitler did many terrible actions, Lord have mercy on his soul.

The intent of these images is precisely to express the idea that the assassination of Tsar Nicholas was, indeed, a sacrifice of redemption for the Russian people, on a par with the sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of humanity. Those who subscribe to this heresy and blasphemy are known as Tsarebozhniki.

The old "we barely know anything about Orthodoxy, so let's go over the top and beyond it" phenomenon.
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« Reply #1026 on: October 05, 2013, 10:52:04 AM »


Not sure how the Tsar Paul icon is necessarily shlock. He hasn't been glorified is all.

It's schlock because it's a product of Russian ultramonarchists who venerate all the tsars as saints. Yup, such folks do exist, and I have several of their paintings on file.
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« Reply #1027 on: October 05, 2013, 10:55:43 AM »


Not sure how the Tsar Paul icon is necessarily shlock. He hasn't been glorified is all.

It's schlock because it's a product of Russian ultramonarchists who venerate all the tsars as saints. Yup, such folks do exist, and I have several of their paintings on file.

Perhaps it comes from them, but so what? Tsar Paul was not just any tsar. (If they really venerate ALL tsars, where are the icons of Alexander II?)
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« Reply #1028 on: October 05, 2013, 11:00:22 AM »


Not sure how the Tsar Paul icon is necessarily shlock. He hasn't been glorified is all.

It's schlock because it's a product of Russian ultramonarchists who venerate all the tsars as saints. Yup, such folks do exist, and I have several of their paintings on file.

Perhaps it comes from them, but so what? Tsar Paul was not just any tsar. (If they really venerate ALL tsars, where are the icons of Alexander II?)

Patience, my dear friend. I am perusing my schlock file as we speak.  laugh
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« Reply #1029 on: October 05, 2013, 11:02:57 AM »

The martyric death of Tsar Paul is commemorated on the St. Herman Brotherhood calendar--in italics, as are the deaths of other persons who are venerated but not yet canonized by the Church.
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« Reply #1030 on: October 05, 2013, 11:57:10 AM »


Not sure how the Tsar Paul icon is necessarily shlock. He hasn't been glorified is all.

It's schlock because it's a product of Russian ultramonarchists who venerate all the tsars as saints. Yup, such folks do exist, and I have several of their paintings on file.

Perhaps it comes from them, but so what? Tsar Paul was not just any tsar. (If they really venerate ALL tsars, where are the icons of Alexander II?)

Patience, my dear friend. I am perusing my schlock file as we speak.  laugh

Here 'tis, an "icon" showing all the Russian emperors and empresses as saints. Yes, it's a tacky 'shop job, but I've seen at least one fully-painted version as well.




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« Reply #1031 on: October 05, 2013, 12:03:26 PM »

Here's a fully-painted one, of Great-princes and Tsars, all painted as saints. Alexander II is in the top right corner, among the group wearing the cloven crowns:




Link to the full-sized image:

http://nashaepoharu.512.com1.ru:8164/WWW/_Mediafiles/ikons/v_1.jpg
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« Reply #1032 on: October 05, 2013, 05:40:19 PM »

Holy crap at the hitler one.
Athos was under Hitler's personal protection at one time.

Hitler allowed the Church to bloom in territories under him.

Russian ultramonarchists who venerate all the tsars as saints. Yup, such folks do exist, and I have several of their paintings on file.

And we have them on the forum.
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« Reply #1033 on: October 14, 2013, 05:25:44 PM »

So, in between classes today I was on facebook, looking at pictures from a cathedral (or church) and they had the most beautiful icons...

Then this happened:



The triangle halo that is seen in other God the Father icons makes me think it's an icon of God the Father.  Undecided

And I was so enjoying looking at the photos too. Bahh.

(Maybe it's the Ancient of Days? Hmm).

It's a Church in Greece, btw.
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« Reply #1034 on: October 14, 2013, 05:28:36 PM »

Yes. That is the Ancient of Days. A non-canonical icon if I have ever seen one. Why do some iconostasi, especially the Russian Baroque and 19th c. style ones, have the triangular eye symbol?
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