Author Topic: Schlock Icons  (Read 113584 times)

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Offline Romaios

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #900 on: August 25, 2013, 11:43:27 PM »


I assume, after inspecting the elements of these icons, that these are of St. Isidore? If so, thank you so much.

The one on your left hand side is - the one on the right is of St. Photius the Great.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 11:45:04 PM by Romaios »

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #901 on: August 25, 2013, 11:50:57 PM »


I assume, after inspecting the elements of these icons, that these are of St. Isidore? If so, thank you so much.
]
The one on the left is of St Isidore, and I would not recommend it. The face is too cartoonish, and what is that on his head? Bishops who came from noble families are shown bare-headed, or, in post-15th century saints, wearing bishops' mitres. They should not wear crowns of nobility.

The one on the right is St Photios the Great. I have other examples on file which are of better quality (i.e. not a scan of a damaged print).
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #902 on: August 26, 2013, 12:14:20 AM »
There's also this illumination of Sts Braulio and Isidore from the Isidori libri originum, second half of the 10th century:



Or St. Isidore alone:

« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 12:17:16 AM by Romaios »

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #903 on: August 26, 2013, 12:21:21 AM »
There's also this illumination of Sts Braulio and Isidor from the Isidori libri originum, second half of the 10th century:



Or St. Isidor alone:



Icons should express something of why the saint is so regarded. Was the writing of his Etymologiae the reason he is regarded as a saint, or his fidelity to the faith and its correct proclamation through his life as a bishop? This distinction is important.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #904 on: August 26, 2013, 12:29:01 AM »
Icons should express something of why the saint is so regarded. Was the writing of his Etymologiae the reason he is regarded as a saint, or his fidelity to the faith and its correct proclamation through his life as a bishop? This distinction is important.

Well, together with St. Braulio and St. Leandrus, his brother, he is considered one of the pillars of the old Spanish Church. He defeated Arianism and enlightened the barbarian Visigoths. IIRC he also presided over some of the Councils of Toledo. 

I assume he's depicted as a writer in that particular illumination (not necessarily an icon), because he was the author of the book it comes from.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 12:32:31 AM by Romaios »

Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #905 on: August 26, 2013, 12:38:03 AM »
Icons should express something of why the saint is so regarded. Was the writing of his Etymologiae the reason he is regarded as a saint, or his fidelity to the faith and its correct proclamation through his life as a bishop? This distinction is important.

Well, together with St. Braulio and St. Leandrus, his brother, he is one of the pillars of the old Spanish Church. He defeated Arianism and enlightened the barbarian Visigoths.

I assume he's depicted as a writer in that particular illumination (not necessarily an icon), because he was the author of the book it comes from.

Illuminations are not necessarily icons in the Orthodox sense, though many an icon has been painted as an illumination. These examples of St Isidore well illustrate that difference.

dcommini asked for an icon of St Isidore. The illuminations provided are not icons. As for St Leander, here is a good example of an icon of him, which is neither cartoonish, nor deficient:

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #906 on: August 26, 2013, 12:51:47 AM »
Is the quote on the scroll really from St Leander's writings/preaching? 
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #907 on: August 26, 2013, 01:08:10 AM »
Is the quote on the scroll really from St Leander's writings/preaching? 

Whether he actually wrote that statement, I cannot say, but it is appropriate for someone who fought against the heresy of Arianism.

BTW, what is written on a saint's scroll need not be something he actually said or wrote. More often than not, it is a passage from scripture which says something about the saint's life, character, or conduct.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #908 on: August 26, 2013, 01:10:08 AM »
Is the quote on the scroll really from St Leander's writings/preaching? 

Not literally, but it alludes to his homily In laudem Ecclesiae ob conversionem gentis (In praise of he Church for the conversion of the people), found among the acts of the 3rd Council of Toledo (see paragraph 3 on heresies being like thorns).

 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 01:41:09 AM by Romaios »

Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #909 on: August 26, 2013, 01:32:18 AM »
Is the quote on the scroll really from St Leander's writings/preaching? 

Not literally, but it alludes to his homily In laudem Ecclesiae, found among the acts of the 3rd Council of Toledo (see paragraph 3 on heresies being like thorns).

 

Good to know.  :)
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #910 on: August 26, 2013, 11:22:18 AM »
An event like this in the life of an Orthodox saint can be shown iconographically in a "life" icon, where the saint is shown in the central panel, surrounded by smaller scenes of events in his life.

Really?





I'm missing your point. Could you elaborate?

You saying that life events can be painted on side panels and the main icon is supposed to be a saint standing straight. These show otherwise.

Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #911 on: August 26, 2013, 07:51:47 PM »
An event like this in the life of an Orthodox saint can be shown iconographically in a "life" icon, where the saint is shown in the central panel, surrounded by smaller scenes of events in his life.

Really?





I'm missing your point. Could you elaborate?

You saying that life events can be painted on side panels and the main icon is supposed to be a saint standing straight. These show otherwise.

You missed my point. Let me restate it:

The "icon" of Isidore the Farmer shows a scene where an angel is plowing his field, and Isidore is gesturing to it, as if the angel and his work is the means to salvation. What should have been done is for this scene to be shown in the proper manner of a "life" icon, as an illustration of a miraculous event in his life.

And yes, I am well aware of the "narrative" style of iconography, where different scenes are not set out in separate little panels surrounded by a central panel, but merged into a single composite image.
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Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #912 on: August 31, 2013, 09:43:32 PM »


I know this doesn't count as an icon, technically, but I saw it posted in an icon thread for Mary, and I thought I'd share. Really unsettling. I think it's the eyes that do it for me :/
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #913 on: August 31, 2013, 10:30:41 PM »


I know this doesn't count as an icon, technically, but I saw it posted in an icon thread for Mary, and I thought I'd share. Really unsettling. I think it's the eyes that do it for me :/


I find it is far from unsettling. It is the eyes that do it for me. I leave it for others to psychoanalyze me if I do not conform to their ideals.

Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #914 on: August 31, 2013, 11:03:15 PM »


I know this doesn't count as an icon, technically, but I saw it posted in an icon thread for Mary, and I thought I'd share. Really unsettling. I think it's the eyes that do it for me :/


You're right, it's creepy. Like she's about to cast a spell or something.

OTOH, there's this painting which is mercifully free of creepiness and sentimentality. It's also the only "Madonna and Child" painting I've come across which doesn't show Christ as a generic, helpless baby, but as a knowing, divine Child. The expression and bearing of the Virgin also alludes to her anticipation of the sorrow she will endure at her Son's future Passion.

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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #915 on: August 31, 2013, 11:25:32 PM »
The food poisoning was God's penance imposed on you for using maple syrup on dosas.  I've eaten a lot of weird things in my life, but I can't imagine a greater affront both to dosas and to maple syrup.  :P

What is your preferred dosa? 

Ketchup on pirohy is a greater affront to Natural Law in my opinion.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #916 on: September 01, 2013, 01:46:38 PM »


I know this doesn't count as an icon, technically, but I saw it posted in an icon thread for Mary, and I thought I'd share. Really unsettling. I think it's the eyes that do it for me :/


She looks like she's contemplating revenge.
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #917 on: September 01, 2013, 01:53:41 PM »
I would not call that an icon, even the Russian 19th century-style icons of the Theotokos are better than this, and I prefer Russo-Byzantine style.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #918 on: September 01, 2013, 01:54:01 PM »


Could be a planned "spiritual successor" to the Assassin's Creed franchise...
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #919 on: September 01, 2013, 04:00:11 PM »
Ketchup on pirohy is a greater affront to Natural Law in my opinion.

While I can't imagine eating pirohy with ketchup (yuck!), I continue to maintain that a maple syrup drizzled masala dosa is much worse. 

Thanks, btw, now I want to eat pirohy.  It's my inner Slav. 
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #920 on: September 01, 2013, 04:08:55 PM »
OTOH, there's this painting which is mercifully free of creepiness and sentimentality. It's also the only "Madonna and Child" painting I've come across which doesn't show Christ as a generic, helpless baby, but as a knowing, divine Child. The expression and bearing of the Virgin also alludes to her anticipation of the sorrow she will endure at her Son's future Passion.



For some reason, it gives me the creeps. It strikes me as even creepier than the Rosa Mystica one.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 04:16:38 PM by Romaios »

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #921 on: September 01, 2013, 04:44:02 PM »
OTOH, there's this painting which is mercifully free of creepiness and sentimentality. It's also the only "Madonna and Child" painting I've come across which doesn't show Christ as a generic, helpless baby, but as a knowing, divine Child. The expression and bearing of the Virgin also alludes to her anticipation of the sorrow she will endure at her Son's future Passion.



For some reason, it gives me the creeps. It strikes me as even creepier than the Rosa Mystica one.

On the other hand, I love it. It's my favourite Madonna ever, precisely because of the Child's knowing expression.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #922 on: September 01, 2013, 04:54:23 PM »
On the other hand, I love it. It's my favourite Madonna ever, precisely because of the Child's knowing expression.

He looks like he's illustrating an asana, under the gaze of the instructress...   :-\

Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #923 on: September 01, 2013, 07:46:14 PM »
OTOH, there's this painting which is mercifully free of creepiness and sentimentality. It's also the only "Madonna and Child" painting I've come across which doesn't show Christ as a generic, helpless baby, but as a knowing, divine Child. The expression and bearing of the Virgin also alludes to her anticipation of the sorrow she will endure at her Son's future Passion.



For some reason, it gives me the creeps. It strikes me as even creepier than the Rosa Mystica one.

On the other hand, I love it. It's my favourite Madonna ever, precisely because of the Child's knowing expression.

The graphic I have posted doesn't do justice to the painting. I've been lucky enough to see the original, and it is a powerful and sublime work.
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Offline WeldeMikael

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #924 on: September 04, 2013, 04:50:34 PM »


Yeah, not a real icon, but  ;D

Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #925 on: September 04, 2013, 06:37:33 PM »


Yeah, not a real icon, but  ;D

This sort of pastiche has become all too common since the invention of image software ....
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #926 on: September 05, 2013, 12:02:37 AM »
why does the border around the saint go through the halo

Are the borders more powerful than the holy spirit?

I would not venerate that icon

 ;D
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #927 on: September 05, 2013, 12:13:40 AM »
why does the border around the saint go through the halo

Are the borders more powerful than the holy spirit?

A saint's halo often extends into the border, as a symbol of the deification of the saint, who has transcended the world in his or her perfected state. God is not bound by His creation.
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #928 on: September 05, 2013, 12:40:04 AM »
why does the border around the saint go through the halo

Are the borders more powerful than the holy spirit?

A saint's halo often extends into the border, as a symbol of the deification of the saint, who has transcended the world in his or her perfected state. God is not bound by His creation.

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Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #929 on: September 13, 2013, 02:21:51 PM »
I found this icon. Is it okay? It's of St. Anna, the mother of the Theotokos, holding Mary as a babe:

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #930 on: September 13, 2013, 03:07:44 PM »
Looks okay to me.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #931 on: September 13, 2013, 03:45:46 PM »
Our Lady of Korea


Holy Trinity, with Christ petting the Holy Spirit
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #932 on: September 13, 2013, 04:15:00 PM »
The last one is some very terrible schlock. At least look at the podlinniki, if you want to properly imitate an icon. Unlike the Son, God the Father cannot be depicted because NO ONE has seen him. He may appear in 19th century Russian icons, but not in traditional Byzantine, or Russo-Byzantine iconography. If this is done in a quasi-traditional style, then it appears that whoever did it is badly informed. The Icon of Our Lady of Korea does not really look like an icon, aside from the style, because neither participant acts as in the usual icons.

Offline W.A.Mozart

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #933 on: September 13, 2013, 05:11:29 PM »




Is this shlock? I dont think there is a rule which forbids painting the founders of the church if they are still alive
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #934 on: September 13, 2013, 05:18:34 PM »




Is this shlock? I dont think there is a rule which forbids painting the founders of the church if they are still alive

Never mind if there are any rules, just look at the thing. It's horrendous. How could this even be a question?
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #935 on: September 13, 2013, 06:08:14 PM »
Those children look like they resent being in the image. 
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #936 on: September 13, 2013, 06:10:40 PM »
Unlike the Son, God the Father cannot be depicted because NO ONE has seen him.

Quote
John 14

8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.

Just sayin'...  ;)
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #937 on: September 13, 2013, 07:32:53 PM »
The last one is some very terrible schlock. At least look at the podlinniki, if you want to properly imitate an icon. Unlike the Son, God the Father cannot be depicted because NO ONE has seen him. He may appear in 19th century Russian icons, but not in traditional Byzantine, or Russo-Byzantine iconography. If this is done in a quasi-traditional style, then it appears that whoever did it is badly informed. The Icon of Our Lady of Korea does not really look like an icon, aside from the style, because neither participant acts as in the usual icons.

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #938 on: September 14, 2013, 05:04:47 AM »
Those children look like they resent being in the image. 

The way any sane child should.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #939 on: September 14, 2013, 07:45:06 AM »
Welcome back!
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #940 on: September 14, 2013, 07:53:02 AM »
Welcome back!

Keep your welcomes. I am not making a habit of this. I got sucked in by a PM!

Someone needs to make an oc.net digest. Too much garbage here to filter through if you pop in once a week or so.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #941 on: September 14, 2013, 03:38:07 PM »




Is this shlock? I dont think there is a rule which forbids painting the founders of the church if they are still alive


Offline W.A.Mozart

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #942 on: September 14, 2013, 05:16:57 PM »
btw forgot to mention that these 2 women are his ex-wife and of course - his present wife (so I read on the site where I found the fresco)



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Offline Philipa

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #943 on: September 14, 2013, 05:53:54 PM »
He gives me the creeps!

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #944 on: September 14, 2013, 07:13:34 PM »




Is this shlock? I dont think there is a rule which forbids painting the founders of the church if they are still alive



There's a world of difference between ingratiating yourself by having yourself and your family painted into an icon (all of whom are alive), and showing two saints (Justinian the Great and Constantine the Great) supplicating before Christ.

If you can't tell the difference between deference and self-promotion ....
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