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Deacon Lance
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« Reply #855 on: August 19, 2013, 08:54:30 PM »

Although canonical icons of Bob Marley need to have him holding a microphone in one hand.

And a joint in the second one.
It can hang next to the icon of Chesterton that some overzealous neophyte is surely painting.

.... and there's sure to be one of CS Lewis in the pipeline as well.  Tongue

Robert Lentz has painted Tolkien painted as a "saint" in iconographic style, as many of us know. His justification for painting this fiasco is this, in his own words:

"He [Tolkien] is best known as the author of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, stories that began as entertainment for his two young sons, but developed into a vast work of mythology. As a devout Catholic intellectual, he felt that such creative use of our imagination was a reflection of God’s own creative activity, and eloquent proof that we are made in God’s image and likeness. Millions have read his books, which have now been translated into many different languages, and have rediscovered in themselves the childlike gift of imagination that belongs to all of us as icons of God."

Hmmm. It appears that writing a series of well-loved children’s books full of mystery, magic and imagination is a means to sanctity. Perhaps we shall soon see “icons” by the hand of Robert Lentz of Lewis Carroll, the Brothers Grimm, JK Rowling and Hans Christian Andersen.  Tongue Tongue Tongue


JRR Tolkein was a devout Catholic who used his talents for the glory of God.  In that regard, he is as good a candidate for sainthood as anyone. 
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« Reply #856 on: August 19, 2013, 09:28:15 PM »

JRR Tolkein was a devout Catholic who used his talents for the glory of God.  In that regard, he is as good a candidate for sainthood as anyone. 

If I were Catholic, I'd be all for his canonization. Cool
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« Reply #857 on: August 20, 2013, 02:09:14 AM »

Although canonical icons of Bob Marley need to have him holding a microphone in one hand.

And a joint in the second one.
It can hang next to the icon of Chesterton that some overzealous neophyte is surely painting.

.... and there's sure to be one of CS Lewis in the pipeline as well.  Tongue

Robert Lentz has painted Tolkien painted as a "saint" in iconographic style, as many of us know. His justification for painting this fiasco is this, in his own words:

"He [Tolkien] is best known as the author of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, stories that began as entertainment for his two young sons, but developed into a vast work of mythology. As a devout Catholic intellectual, he felt that such creative use of our imagination was a reflection of God’s own creative activity, and eloquent proof that we are made in God’s image and likeness. Millions have read his books, which have now been translated into many different languages, and have rediscovered in themselves the childlike gift of imagination that belongs to all of us as icons of God."

Hmmm. It appears that writing a series of well-loved children’s books full of mystery, magic and imagination is a means to sanctity. Perhaps we shall soon see “icons” by the hand of Robert Lentz of Lewis Carroll, the Brothers Grimm, JK Rowling and Hans Christian Andersen.  Tongue Tongue Tongue


JRR Tolkein was a devout Catholic who used his talents for the glory of God.  In that regard, he is as good a candidate for sainthood as anyone. 

Sentimental nonsense. Gimme a break!
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« Reply #858 on: August 20, 2013, 04:50:08 AM »

This is so full of fail, I don't know where to start ....

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« Reply #859 on: August 20, 2013, 04:59:38 AM »

.... and, from the same artist:



In iconography, the saint will often gesture with one hand towards Christ or a motif of Him, or to a cross they may be holding, as a sign of their faith, in supplication, and to point to Christ as the Way, the Truth and the Life. Here, St Cecilia is pointing to the pipe-organ of salvation.
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« Reply #860 on: August 20, 2013, 04:55:54 PM »

Although canonical icons of Bob Marley need to have him holding a microphone in one hand.

And a joint in the second one.
It can hang next to the icon of Chesterton that some overzealous neophyte is surely painting.

.... and there's sure to be one of CS Lewis in the pipeline as well.  Tongue

Robert Lentz has painted Tolkien painted as a "saint" in iconographic style, as many of us know. His justification for painting this fiasco is this, in his own words:

"He [Tolkien] is best known as the author of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, stories that began as entertainment for his two young sons, but developed into a vast work of mythology. As a devout Catholic intellectual, he felt that such creative use of our imagination was a reflection of God’s own creative activity, and eloquent proof that we are made in God’s image and likeness. Millions have read his books, which have now been translated into many different languages, and have rediscovered in themselves the childlike gift of imagination that belongs to all of us as icons of God."

Hmmm. It appears that writing a series of well-loved children’s books full of mystery, magic and imagination is a means to sanctity. Perhaps we shall soon see “icons” by the hand of Robert Lentz of Lewis Carroll, the Brothers Grimm, JK Rowling and Hans Christian Andersen.  Tongue Tongue Tongue


JRR Tolkein was a devout Catholic who used his talents for the glory of God.  In that regard, he is as good a candidate for sainthood as anyone.  

Sentimental nonsense. Gimme a break!

Give me a break.  Do you know anything about the man?  He led a devout life and is a good example of holiness in everyday life.  There are more nonsensical sentimental canonizations in both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches than Tolkein.
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« Reply #861 on: August 20, 2013, 07:55:04 PM »

Although canonical icons of Bob Marley need to have him holding a microphone in one hand.

And a joint in the second one.
It can hang next to the icon of Chesterton that some overzealous neophyte is surely painting.

.... and there's sure to be one of CS Lewis in the pipeline as well.  Tongue

Robert Lentz has painted Tolkien painted as a "saint" in iconographic style, as many of us know. His justification for painting this fiasco is this, in his own words:

"He [Tolkien] is best known as the author of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, stories that began as entertainment for his two young sons, but developed into a vast work of mythology. As a devout Catholic intellectual, he felt that such creative use of our imagination was a reflection of God’s own creative activity, and eloquent proof that we are made in God’s image and likeness. Millions have read his books, which have now been translated into many different languages, and have rediscovered in themselves the childlike gift of imagination that belongs to all of us as icons of God."

Hmmm. It appears that writing a series of well-loved children’s books full of mystery, magic and imagination is a means to sanctity. Perhaps we shall soon see “icons” by the hand of Robert Lentz of Lewis Carroll, the Brothers Grimm, JK Rowling and Hans Christian Andersen.  Tongue Tongue Tongue


JRR Tolkein was a devout Catholic who used his talents for the glory of God.  In that regard, he is as good a candidate for sainthood as anyone.  

Sentimental nonsense. Gimme a break!

Give me a break.  Do you know anything about the man?  He led a devout life and is a good example of holiness in everyday life.  There are more nonsensical sentimental canonizations in both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches than Tolkein.

Ok, then, name some of these "sentimental canonizations" within the Orthodox Church. Name some, or withdraw your statement.  Angry
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« Reply #862 on: August 20, 2013, 08:57:26 PM »

Quote
Ok, then, name some of these "sentimental canonizations" within the Orthodox Church. Name some, or withdraw your statement.

Czar Nicholas anyone?
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« Reply #863 on: August 20, 2013, 10:05:36 PM »

Quote
Ok, then, name some of these "sentimental canonizations" within the Orthodox Church. Name some, or withdraw your statement.

Czar Nicholas anyone?

Peter the Aleut might fit the bill as well, although for very different reasons.
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« Reply #864 on: August 20, 2013, 10:20:44 PM »

Yes, both of those come to mind.
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« Reply #865 on: August 21, 2013, 06:49:30 AM »

Quote
Ok, then, name some of these "sentimental canonizations" within the Orthodox Church. Name some, or withdraw your statement.

Czar Nicholas anyone?

Peter the Aleut might fit the bill as well, although for very different reasons.

Is being considered a passion bearer or a martyr sentimental enough to be canonized a saint?  Isn't sainthood considered for a person generally after something as sentimental as local veneration?  Is Tolkien being venerated (not by literary fans)?
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« Reply #866 on: August 21, 2013, 09:36:56 AM »

Quote
Ok, then, name some of these "sentimental canonizations" within the Orthodox Church. Name some, or withdraw your statement.

Czar Nicholas anyone?

Peter the Aleut might fit the bill as well, although for very different reasons.

Is being considered a passion bearer or a martyr sentimental enough to be canonized a saint?  Isn't sainthood considered for a person generally after something as sentimental as local veneration?  Is Tolkien being venerated (not by literary fans)?

For Peter the Aleut, I think the well-documented doubt (within the Church, even) to his very existence is a good reason to consider it a "sentimental canonization." Peter the Aleut ends up being the canonization of anti-Catholic sentiment, so-to-speak, rather than a plausible martyr.
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« Reply #867 on: August 21, 2013, 10:10:31 AM »

Quote
Ok, then, name some of these "sentimental canonizations" within the Orthodox Church. Name some, or withdraw your statement.

Czar Nicholas anyone?

Peter the Aleut might fit the bill as well, although for very different reasons.

Is being considered a passion bearer or a martyr sentimental enough to be canonized a saint?  Isn't sainthood considered for a person generally after something as sentimental as local veneration?  Is Tolkien being venerated (not by literary fans)?

For Peter the Aleut, I think the well-documented doubt (within the Church, even) to his very existence is a good reason to consider it a "sentimental canonization." Peter the Aleut ends up being the canonization of anti-Catholic sentiment, so-to-speak, rather than a plausible martyr.

Here's a pretty good analysis of well-founded doubt:
http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/01/31/is-the-st-peter-the-aleut-story-true/
I believe that there aren't as many details as we would like or want, but I do believe he existed and was killed.  Maybe he was killed for different reasons than as to what was reported, but, nevertheless, he's considered a martyr.  The Church doesn't say that we must venerate every saint canonized.  Going back to the painting of Tolkien, it doesn't matter that some hack wants to paint in an iconographic style, but please don't call them icons or try to elevate or glorify a person of your own accord.  If Tolkien was being venerated by many Catholics and the Vatican was considering the beatification/canonization process, more power to them.
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« Reply #868 on: August 21, 2013, 10:27:23 AM »

Is being considered a passion bearer or a martyr sentimental enough to be canonized a saint?  Isn't sainthood considered for a person generally after something as sentimental as local veneration?  Is Tolkien being venerated (not by literary fans)?

For Peter the Aleut, I think the well-documented doubt (within the Church, even) to his very existence is a good reason to consider it a "sentimental canonization." Peter the Aleut ends up being the canonization of anti-Catholic sentiment, so-to-speak, rather than a plausible martyr.

Here's a pretty good analysis of well-founded doubt:
http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/01/31/is-the-st-peter-the-aleut-story-true/
I believe that there aren't as many details as we would like or want, but I do believe he existed and was killed.  Maybe he was killed for different reasons than as to what was reported, but, nevertheless, he's considered a martyr.  The Church doesn't say that we must venerate every saint canonized.

I wouldn't take it as absolutely authoritative on its own, and it doesn't deal with all (or even try to, since it's in response to a now-dead post) of the problems (e.g. Jesuits not being in the region at the time).
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« Reply #869 on: August 21, 2013, 11:09:26 AM »

Is being considered a passion bearer or a martyr sentimental enough to be canonized a saint?  Isn't sainthood considered for a person generally after something as sentimental as local veneration?  Is Tolkien being venerated (not by literary fans)?

For Peter the Aleut, I think the well-documented doubt (within the Church, even) to his very existence is a good reason to consider it a "sentimental canonization." Peter the Aleut ends up being the canonization of anti-Catholic sentiment, so-to-speak, rather than a plausible martyr.

Here's a pretty good analysis of well-founded doubt:
http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/01/31/is-the-st-peter-the-aleut-story-true/
I believe that there aren't as many details as we would like or want, but I do believe he existed and was killed.  Maybe he was killed for different reasons than as to what was reported, but, nevertheless, he's considered a martyr.  The Church doesn't say that we must venerate every saint canonized.

I wouldn't take it as absolutely authoritative on its own, and it doesn't deal with all (or even try to, since it's in response to a now-dead post) of the problems (e.g. Jesuits not being in the region at the time).

Neither would I.  I like source documents and this article led me to some that I need to research further.
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« Reply #870 on: August 22, 2013, 01:40:31 PM »



saint Nikola Tesla
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« Reply #871 on: August 22, 2013, 01:53:08 PM »

Oh, wow. I like Nikola Tesla a lot, but that is a bit much.  laugh
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« Reply #872 on: August 22, 2013, 02:13:17 PM »



saint Nikola Tesla

Looks like a bad photoshop job.
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« Reply #873 on: August 22, 2013, 02:34:22 PM »

Exactly. Am I the only one who thinks he broke his neck?  Huh
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« Reply #874 on: August 22, 2013, 07:09:10 PM »

Although canonical icons of Bob Marley need to have him holding a microphone in one hand.

And a joint in the second one.
It can hang next to the icon of Chesterton that some overzealous neophyte is surely painting.

.... and there's sure to be one of CS Lewis in the pipeline as well.  Tongue

Robert Lentz has painted Tolkien painted as a "saint" in iconographic style, as many of us know. His justification for painting this fiasco is this, in his own words:

"He [Tolkien] is best known as the author of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, stories that began as entertainment for his two young sons, but developed into a vast work of mythology. As a devout Catholic intellectual, he felt that such creative use of our imagination was a reflection of God’s own creative activity, and eloquent proof that we are made in God’s image and likeness. Millions have read his books, which have now been translated into many different languages, and have rediscovered in themselves the childlike gift of imagination that belongs to all of us as icons of God."

Hmmm. It appears that writing a series of well-loved children’s books full of mystery, magic and imagination is a means to sanctity. Perhaps we shall soon see “icons” by the hand of Robert Lentz of Lewis Carroll, the Brothers Grimm, JK Rowling and Hans Christian Andersen.  Tongue Tongue Tongue


JRR Tolkein was a devout Catholic who used his talents for the glory of God.  In that regard, he is as good a candidate for sainthood as anyone. 

Sentimental nonsense. Gimme a break!

There's a lot more to him than that.
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« Reply #875 on: August 22, 2013, 07:11:00 PM »

Quote
Ok, then, name some of these "sentimental canonizations" within the Orthodox Church. Name some, or withdraw your statement.

Czar Nicholas anyone?

Peter the Aleut might fit the bill as well, although for very different reasons.

Is being considered a passion bearer or a martyr sentimental enough to be canonized a saint?  Isn't sainthood considered for a person generally after something as sentimental as local veneration?  Is Tolkien being venerated (not by literary fans)?

For Peter the Aleut, I think the well-documented doubt (within the Church, even) to his very existence is a good reason to consider it a "sentimental canonization." Peter the Aleut ends up being the canonization of anti-Catholic sentiment, so-to-speak, rather than a plausible martyr.

St. Herman begs to differ.
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« Reply #876 on: August 22, 2013, 07:13:33 PM »

Is being considered a passion bearer or a martyr sentimental enough to be canonized a saint?  Isn't sainthood considered for a person generally after something as sentimental as local veneration?  Is Tolkien being venerated (not by literary fans)?

For Peter the Aleut, I think the well-documented doubt (within the Church, even) to his very existence is a good reason to consider it a "sentimental canonization." Peter the Aleut ends up being the canonization of anti-Catholic sentiment, so-to-speak, rather than a plausible martyr.

Here's a pretty good analysis of well-founded doubt:
http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/01/31/is-the-st-peter-the-aleut-story-true/
I believe that there aren't as many details as we would like or want, but I do believe he existed and was killed.  Maybe he was killed for different reasons than as to what was reported, but, nevertheless, he's considered a martyr.  The Church doesn't say that we must venerate every saint canonized.

I wouldn't take it as absolutely authoritative on its own, and it doesn't deal with all (or even try to, since it's in response to a now-dead post) of the problems (e.g. Jesuits not being in the region at the time).

Fr. Michael Oleksa also addresses the issue and doesn't end in doubting St. Peter's existence or martyrdom. "Jesuits" is, he said, a sort of Russian shorthand for Roman Catholics and most likely it was overzealous laymen who tortured and killed St. Peter, before they were stopped by the higher ups.

Likely, it never makes it in the Spanish records because they knew it to be a shameful thing and a mistake.
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« Reply #877 on: August 22, 2013, 10:24:28 PM »

Fr. Michael Oleksa also addresses the issue and doesn't end in doubting St. Peter's existence or martyrdom. "Jesuits" is, he said, a sort of Russian shorthand for Roman Catholics and most likely it was overzealous laymen who tortured and killed St. Peter, before they were stopped by the higher ups.

Likely, it never makes it in the Spanish records because they knew it to be a shameful thing and a mistake.

Good point, and the bolded is something interesting I hadn't seen brought up.
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« Reply #878 on: August 24, 2013, 08:30:54 PM »

I was wondering about this icon. is it objectionable?

http://www.youngadultministryinabox.com/?p=724

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« Reply #879 on: August 24, 2013, 08:50:22 PM »

I was wondering about this icon. is it objectionable?

http://www.youngadultministryinabox.com/?p=724



1. He should have been depicted as a bishop.

2. What's the crystal ball in his left hand? Never seen anything like it in Orthodox iconography (perhaps the orb that the Archangels hold, but that doesn't depict anything).
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« Reply #880 on: August 24, 2013, 09:00:57 PM »

Maybe it's a snowglobe?
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« Reply #881 on: August 24, 2013, 09:39:25 PM »

I was wondering about this icon. is it objectionable?

http://www.youngadultministryinabox.com/?p=724



1. He should have been depicted as a bishop.

2. What's the crystal ball in his left hand? Never seen anything like it in Orthodox iconography (perhaps the orb that the Archangels hold, but that doesn't depict anything).

Anybody have a source for a "good" icon of him?
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« Reply #882 on: August 24, 2013, 10:23:22 PM »

I was wondering about this icon. is it objectionable?

http://www.youngadultministryinabox.com/?p=724



1. He should have been depicted as a bishop.

2. What's the crystal ball in his left hand? Never seen anything like it in Orthodox iconography (perhaps the orb that the Archangels hold, but that doesn't depict anything).

Apparently St. Isidore was a farmer and I think the globe is depicting that.

What about this one?
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« Reply #883 on: August 24, 2013, 10:37:29 PM »



saint Nikola Tesla

I was scrolling through the thread, and when I quickly went past this image my first thought was: "someone made an icon of Freddy Mercury?"  Grin

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« Reply #884 on: August 24, 2013, 10:49:34 PM »



saint Nikola Tesla

I was scrolling through the thread, and when I quickly went past this image my first thought was: "someone made an icon of Freddy Mercury?"  Grin



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« Reply #885 on: August 25, 2013, 12:49:56 AM »

I was wondering about this icon. is it objectionable?

http://www.youngadultministryinabox.com/?p=724



1. It's an "icon" of St Isidore the Farmer, a post-schism RC saint, not St Isidore of Seville, a 5th-6th century bishop. The website which posted the image picked the wrong St Isidore.

2. It's from that repository of schlock, Monastery Icons. When a saint points to something in a proper icon, he is pointing to Christ, either to Him directly, or to a cross, or a Gospel book, to show the way to, and source of, salvation is Christ. In the Monastery Icons image, Isidore is pointing to a motif of an angel tilling his fields (something which occurred in his life). Since when have angels doing our work for us been the path and means to salvation? We were not redeemed by angels, but by Christ.

An event like this in the life of an Orthodox saint can be shown iconographically in a "life" icon, where the saint is shown in the central panel, surrounded by smaller scenes of events in his life.
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« Reply #886 on: August 25, 2013, 12:57:19 AM »


What about this one?


If there's a halo around his head, it's very difficult to see! It could be of someone else, as it seems weird to paint an illumination of a bishop not wearing vestments, and writing at a lectern.
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« Reply #887 on: August 25, 2013, 10:11:31 AM »

An event like this in the life of an Orthodox saint can be shown iconographically in a "life" icon, where the saint is shown in the central panel, surrounded by smaller scenes of events in his life.

Really?



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« Reply #888 on: August 25, 2013, 11:22:22 AM »


What about this one?


If there's a halo around his head, it's very difficult to see! It could be of someone else, as it seems weird to paint an illumination of a bishop not wearing vestments, and writing at a lectern.

And could you show me a good example of an icon for St. Isidore?
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« Reply #889 on: August 25, 2013, 07:50:47 PM »

An event like this in the life of an Orthodox saint can be shown iconographically in a "life" icon, where the saint is shown in the central panel, surrounded by smaller scenes of events in his life.

Really?





I'm missing your point. Could you elaborate?
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« Reply #890 on: August 25, 2013, 07:52:37 PM »


What about this one?


If there's a halo around his head, it's very difficult to see! It could be of someone else, as it seems weird to paint an illumination of a bishop not wearing vestments, and writing at a lectern.

And could you show me a good example of an icon for St. Isidore?

I'll see what I can come up with.  Smiley
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« Reply #891 on: August 25, 2013, 08:14:25 PM »

An event like this in the life of an Orthodox saint can be shown iconographically in a "life" icon, where the saint is shown in the central panel, surrounded by smaller scenes of events in his life.

Really?





I'm missing your point. Could you elaborate?

Oh no! Not puns!
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« Reply #892 on: August 25, 2013, 08:21:36 PM »


What about this one?


If there's a halo around his head, it's very difficult to see! It could be of someone else, as it seems weird to paint an illumination of a bishop not wearing vestments, and writing at a lectern.

And could you show me a good example of an icon for St. Isidore?

I'll see what I can come up with.  Smiley

Thank you, the only reason I ask is that St. Isidore of Seville is the patron saint* of all things computers - including tech support, and since I am currently doing tech support I would like to print off an icon to pin to my tricle (i only have three walls, not 4 so it's not a cubicle).


*I know Orthodox don't have patron saints as such, but still...
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« Reply #893 on: August 25, 2013, 10:49:21 PM »


What about this one?


If there's a halo around his head, it's very difficult to see! It could be of someone else, as it seems weird to paint an illumination of a bishop not wearing vestments, and writing at a lectern.

And could you show me a good example of an icon for St. Isidore?

I'll see what I can come up with.  Smiley

Thank you, the only reason I ask is that St. Isidore of Seville is the patron saint* of all things computers - including tech support, and since I am currently doing tech support I would like to print off an icon to pin to my tricle (i only have three walls, not 4 so it's not a cubicle).


*I know Orthodox don't have patron saints as such, but still...

What's the connection between St Isidore and computers? I know the RCs love assigning patronage to every conceivable occupation, but this is getting arcane, even for them.  Huh
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« Reply #894 on: August 25, 2013, 10:55:52 PM »

What's the connection between St Isidore and computers? I know the RCs love assigning patronage to every conceivable occupation, but this is getting arcane, even for them.  Huh

He wrote the Etymologiae, which were the (Western) encyclopedia of the Middle Ages on all topics from astronomy to minerals to plants, animals, geography and so on. 
 
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« Reply #895 on: August 25, 2013, 11:01:07 PM »

What's the connection between St Isidore and computers? I know the RCs love assigning patronage to every conceivable occupation, but this is getting arcane, even for them.  Huh

He wrote the Etymologiae, which were the (Western) encyclopedia of the Middle Ages on all topics from astronomy to minerals to plants, animals, geography and so on.  
  

Thanks. Then any Orthodox saint who was a polymath would do.  Smiley Or a publisher. St Job of Pochaev is known for setting up and running a printshop.
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« Reply #896 on: August 25, 2013, 11:06:57 PM »

What's the connection between St Isidore and computers? I know the RCs love assigning patronage to every conceivable occupation, but this is getting arcane, even for them.  Huh

He wrote the Etymologiae, which were the (Western) encyclopedia of the Middle Ages on all topics from astronomy to minerals to plants, animals, geography and so on. 
 

Thanks. Then any Orthodox saint who was a polymath would do.  Smiley Or a publisher. St Job of Pochaev is known for setting up and running a printshop.

Maybe St. Photius. He compiled the Myriobiblion.
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« Reply #897 on: August 25, 2013, 11:13:00 PM »

What's the connection between St Isidore and computers? I know the RCs love assigning patronage to every conceivable occupation, but this is getting arcane, even for them.  Huh

He wrote the Etymologiae, which were the (Western) encyclopedia of the Middle Ages on all topics from astronomy to minerals to plants, animals, geography and so on. 
 

Thanks. Then any Orthodox saint who was a polymath would do.  Smiley Or a publisher. St Job of Pochaev is known for setting up and running a printshop.

Maybe St. Photius. He compiled the Myriobiblion.

Excellent! And there are plenty of icons of St Photius the Great.  Smiley
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« Reply #898 on: August 25, 2013, 11:26:53 PM »

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« Reply #899 on: August 25, 2013, 11:37:58 PM »



I assume, after inspecting the elements of these icons, that these are of St. Isidore? If so, thank you so much.
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