Author Topic: Schlock Icons  (Read 492151 times)

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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2025 on: November 16, 2014, 08:48:34 PM »


Supposedly, Nyx with Isaiah.

Not uncommon for early illuminations to incorporate pre-Christian images and symbols. It would be far better if such imagery were not there, but such illuminations are what they are.

Why?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2026 on: November 17, 2014, 04:02:49 AM »
Because the figures are pagan gods and personifications. Nyx was the Greek goddess of the night.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2027 on: November 17, 2014, 04:39:27 AM »
I want an icon of Maria Romanov seductively inviting me to become her tsar in exile.


JamesR, your comment above equates to blasphemy against a saint.  For this you will receive a 10 day warning, on top of the warning you are currently serving.

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« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 05:59:05 PM by LizaSymonenko »

Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2028 on: November 17, 2014, 04:52:31 AM »
I want an icon of Maria Romanov seductively inviting me to become her tsar in exile.

You truly disgust me, James.  >:( Grow up. Just grow up.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 04:54:14 AM by LBK »
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2029 on: November 20, 2014, 03:34:55 AM »
Because the figures are pagan gods and personifications. Nyx was the Greek goddess of the night.

I know who she was. I just dont have a problem with it. But maybe that should be a different thread.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2030 on: November 20, 2014, 06:37:47 PM »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2031 on: November 22, 2014, 06:27:13 AM »


Indescribably ghastly.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 06:27:49 AM by LBK »
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2032 on: November 22, 2014, 07:32:39 AM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2033 on: November 22, 2014, 12:06:32 PM »
WHAT. IS. THAT.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2034 on: November 22, 2014, 02:52:08 PM »


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Offline Antonis

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2035 on: November 22, 2014, 03:09:20 PM »
I actually like that first one.
You sound like a professional who knows what he's talking about.  That's because you are.

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2036 on: November 22, 2014, 04:58:30 PM »
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2037 on: November 26, 2014, 06:51:57 PM »


Indescribably ghastly.

Wait, what's schlock about this?
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2038 on: November 26, 2014, 07:02:11 PM »


Indescribably ghastly.

Wait, what's schlock about this?

I have no idea.

It appears to be a Black Madonna. Those go back centuries, mostly in the West but there are some of them in Orthodox countries as well. One of the most famous is Theotokos of St. Theodore, which dates back to medieval Russia and is one of the most highly venerated icons there:

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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2039 on: November 27, 2014, 08:12:04 AM »


Indescribably ghastly.

Wait, what's schlock about this?

The Child looks utterly terrified, the workmanship is just appallingly crude, and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life. This image speaks of disorder, fear and gloom, not stillness, dispassion and prayer.

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2040 on: November 28, 2014, 08:14:44 PM »
I want an icon of Maria Romanov seductively inviting me to become her tsar in exile.


JamesR, your comment above equates to blasphemy against a saint.  For this you will receive a 10 day warning, on top of the warning you are currently serving.

In the future, please refrain from posting any such comments in regards to saints.

If you have any questions, please send me a PM.

Thanks,

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James' comment and Liza's response reminded me of an article I'd read about a particularly hotheaded Calvinist pastor from Moscow, Idaho who compared icons to spiritual porn and said that Protestants who research Rome or Orthodoxy are comparable to adulterers who, despite being entranced by the "sexy" arguments in favor of apostolic succession, should just snap out of it.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2041 on: November 30, 2014, 05:26:06 PM »


Indescribably ghastly.

Wait, what's schlock about this?

The Child looks utterly terrified, the workmanship is just appallingly crude, and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life. This image speaks of disorder, fear and gloom, not stillness, dispassion and prayer.



I'm not sure if crude workmanship is a good reason.  There are plenty of that just in Theotokos icons in the past alone.  But otherwise, you make some interesting and good points.  I think perhaps if the expression on the face of the child was different, I wouldn't mind the icon.  There are other icons I've seen of the Theotokos that use some dark complexions as well, and I've seen this in EO icons a lot.
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Offline Theophania

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2042 on: November 30, 2014, 05:38:55 PM »
They look like they're decomposing.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2043 on: November 30, 2014, 06:34:18 PM »
For Punch

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2044 on: December 01, 2014, 10:10:24 PM »


I wouldn't call this one schlock, but a lot of Sunni Muslims would certainly consider this blasphemous.

It's looks very much like an Orthodox icon of Christ, but in fact it is of Muhammad (it's from Iran; certain Shiite groups do practice iconography, likely a result of Christian influence).

But it would be schlock if someone were to put this up in a certain Anglican cathedral in Washington D.C., in the name of tolerance.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2045 on: December 02, 2014, 12:04:58 AM »

Indescribably ghastly.

Wait, what's schlock about this?

The Child looks utterly terrified, the workmanship is just appallingly crude, and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life. This image speaks of disorder, fear and gloom, not stillness, dispassion and prayer.



I'm not sure if crude workmanship is a good reason.  There are plenty of that just in Theotokos icons in the past alone.  But otherwise, you make some interesting and good points.  I think perhaps if the expression on the face of the child was different, I wouldn't mind the icon.  There are other icons I've seen of the Theotokos that use some dark complexions as well, and I've seen this in EO icons a lot.

Historic icons which used darker colors for facial modeling and skin tones never used dirty gray shades for facial modeling and skin tones. Bronzed tones, yes. An olive cast (tinge), yes. Gray-brown, never. Gray and black are used in iconography to denote sin, evil and darkness. The abyss of Hades, out of which Christ rises in triumph. The darkness of the cave in which He was born, speaking of the world in darkness until the coming of the Light of the World.

Even the garb of monastics is rendered in a range of colors, usually dark and muted browns, blues, greens, etc.

Some examples:





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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2046 on: December 02, 2014, 12:04:58 AM »
For Punch



Ach, meine Augen!

I also don't think Martin Luther had Down's Syndrome ....



Transl: My eyes! Oh, my eyes!
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2047 on: December 02, 2014, 12:04:58 AM »


I wouldn't call this one schlock, but a lot of Sunni Muslims would certainly consider this blasphemous.

It's looks very much like an Orthodox icon of Christ, but in fact it is of Muhammad (it's from Iran; certain Shiite groups do practice iconography, likely a result of Christian influence).

But it would be schlock if someone were to put this up in a certain Anglican cathedral in Washington D.C., in the name of tolerance.

Well, our favorite schlockmeister Robert Lentz did come up with this:



and his protege William Hart McNichols followed suit:



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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2048 on: December 02, 2014, 12:45:16 AM »

I love his expression, though. I can just picture the Benny Hill zoom in and the "Wah WAH"

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2049 on: December 02, 2014, 01:18:05 AM »
and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life.
I really hate to say this, but I find that a little racist. Their skin color looks like some Nigerian people I've seen. Are you saying it's impossible to paint a saint with skin any darker than coffee-with-cream colored (God knows the Ethiopians don't and I think that's disturbing, too)?
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2050 on: December 02, 2014, 01:23:44 AM »



This is a parody from a video game (Bioshock Infinite). The villains are racist Gilded Age-style theocrats.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2051 on: December 02, 2014, 04:24:49 AM »
and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life.
I really hate to say this, but I find that a little racist. Their skin color looks like some Nigerian people I've seen. Are you saying it's impossible to paint a saint with skin any darker than coffee-with-cream colored (God knows the Ethiopians don't and I think that's disturbing, too)?

Skin color of Africans and other brown- or dark-skinned people does not have a gray cast. The examples of icons I've posted show dark modeling which looks nothing like the deathly shades of the schlock image.

A gray cast in anyone's skin means they are very ill (such as seen in people in the throes of a heart attack), or dead. I've seen plenty of examples of both.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2052 on: December 02, 2014, 08:00:12 AM »
and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life.
I really hate to say this, but I find that a little racist. Their skin color looks like some Nigerian people I've seen. Are you saying it's impossible to paint a saint with skin any darker than coffee-with-cream colored (God knows the Ethiopians don't and I think that's disturbing, too)?

Skin color of Africans and other brown- or dark-skinned people does not have a gray cast. The examples of icons I've posted show dark modeling which looks nothing like the deathly shades of the schlock image.

A gray cast in anyone's skin means they are very ill (such as seen in people in the throes of a heart attack), or dead. I've seen plenty of examples of both.
Maybe you're right. Maybe a lot depends on lighting. Sorry if I gave offense.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2053 on: December 02, 2014, 08:06:37 AM »
Oh, look! It's Shampoo Commercial Jesus!









AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2054 on: December 02, 2014, 09:24:15 AM »
and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life.
I really hate to say this, but I find that a little racist. Their skin color looks like some Nigerian people I've seen. Are you saying it's impossible to paint a saint with skin any darker than coffee-with-cream colored (God knows the Ethiopians don't and I think that's disturbing, too)?

Skin color of Africans and other brown- or dark-skinned people does not have a gray cast. The examples of icons I've posted show dark modeling which looks nothing like the deathly shades of the schlock image.

A gray cast in anyone's skin means they are very ill (such as seen in people in the throes of a heart attack), or dead. I've seen plenty of examples of both.
Maybe you're right. Maybe a lot depends on lighting. Sorry if I gave offense.

No offense taken.  :)
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2055 on: December 02, 2014, 09:33:13 AM »
Oh, look! It's Shampoo Commercial Jesus!



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

The non-denominational church that I attended awhile back had this pic in their church. It always struck me as odd. It is also funny how the same people would be horrified at the idea of iconography, yet hang "Laughing Jesus" in their church.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2056 on: December 02, 2014, 10:15:37 AM »



This is a parody from a video game (Bioshock Infinite). The villains are racist Gilded Age-style theocrats.

And the fact that it fits in perfectly from the other dreck in that post is delicious.  :)
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2057 on: December 02, 2014, 10:45:06 AM »



This is a parody from a video game (Bioshock Infinite). The villains are racist Gilded Age-style theocrats.

And the fact that it fits in perfectly from the other dreck in that post is delicious.  :)
A good confirmation of Poe's Law
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Offline LBK

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2058 on: December 02, 2014, 10:51:17 AM »
The non-denominational church that I attended awhile back had this pic in their church. It always struck me as odd. It is also funny how the same people would be horrified at the idea of iconography, yet hang "Laughing Jesus" in their church.

A most astute observation, TT. Depressing, but astute.
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2059 on: December 02, 2014, 11:02:45 AM »
"Shampoo commercial Jesus" lol!!!
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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2060 on: December 02, 2014, 01:18:55 PM »
and the dirty gray skin tones speak of death, not life.
I really hate to say this, but I find that a little racist. Their skin color looks like some Nigerian people I've seen. Are you saying it's impossible to paint a saint with skin any darker than coffee-with-cream colored (God knows the Ethiopians don't and I think that's disturbing, too)?

Skin color of Africans and other brown- or dark-skinned people does not have a gray cast. The examples of icons I've posted show dark modeling which looks nothing like the deathly shades of the schlock image.

A gray cast in anyone's skin means they are very ill (such as seen in people in the throes of a heart attack), or dead. I've seen plenty of examples of both.
Maybe you're right. Maybe a lot depends on lighting. Sorry if I gave offense.

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2061 on: December 02, 2014, 01:21:31 PM »
I'd never seen an icon of him that dark. Huh.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2062 on: December 02, 2014, 01:26:26 PM »
I'd never seen an icon of him that dark. Huh.

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2063 on: December 02, 2014, 01:49:05 PM »
Some Saints make me wish I was named after them :laugh:

I'm a pasty white guy, by the way.
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2064 on: December 02, 2014, 01:53:15 PM »
Some Saints make me wish I was named after them :laugh:

I'm a pasty white guy, by the way.

Orthodoxy's got you covered, white guy.

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2065 on: December 02, 2014, 01:56:14 PM »
lol It's ok. I've got enough pasty Irish saints to last a lifetime.
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2066 on: December 02, 2014, 01:58:20 PM »
lol It's ok. I've got enough pasty Irish saints to last a lifetime.

Lol. :D
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2067 on: December 02, 2014, 02:37:55 PM »
So what is the procedure for painting Saints in historically correct clothing? I thought they all had to be dressed in ancient robes if they weren't clergy.
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2068 on: December 02, 2014, 02:42:26 PM »
So what is the procedure for painting Saints in historically correct clothing? I thought they all had to be dressed in ancient robes if they weren't clergy.

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Re: Schlock Icons
« Reply #2069 on: December 02, 2014, 03:05:26 PM »
So what is the procedure for painting Saints in historically correct clothing? I thought they all had to be dressed in ancient robes if they weren't clergy.


« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 03:06:42 PM by Volnutt »
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things