Author Topic: Salvation may not be exclusive to Christians or good nonchristians may perish  (Read 192 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mikeforjesus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,569
I thought not to post in Holy Week but some may need to hear this

I don't know if a good non Christian can be saved. They may cease to exist while the bad ones who don't help the poor may go to hell. The below is my thoughts assuming they can be saved which is a possibility but I don't know

Not everyone will be saved but non Christians can be saved. I think Non Christians will be rewarded according to their deeds. They just won't have the reward of being a believer. This means they may have less or the same reward or more than a Christian who did not use all his talents but still increased his Mina

Every good deed will be rewarded.  Chastity and good deeds and being faithful over a talent or talents is rewarded with heaven. I don't know if it will matter that much anymore in heaven or if being faithful over talents after accepting Christ will be a better reward so that you don't care about the reward of virgins or chaste married people. St Mina received a crown of virginity but that was after accepting Christ. I don't know if our past will be remembered in heaven anymore but we will all be new creations. Otherwise will repentant sinners sorrow over their past ?
Everyone can achieve the same high reward but only if they hear all of Christ's words and obey them
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 03:34:47 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline RaphaCam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 679
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Rio de Janeiro & OR (POC)
There's a thing called invincible ignorance, I found some topics here on this subject some time ago, in this one I've posted some Patristic quotes. It seems to be an unknown, I was a bit disturbed by the idea people who never heard of the Gospel could just burn in hell, so the healthiest thing was to forget about it... As St. Theophan the Recluse said, people outside the Church have a Lord who wants the salvation of all, so we should rather care about our own salvation and pray for everybody.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 04:11:33 PM by RaphaCam »
Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

Offline mikeforjesus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,569
Those quotes are amazing which makes me think it is possible that good non Christians will be saved but the quote from St Augustine may mean that not all ignorance is excused so easily
Besides the church fathers are not infallible even if it be St. John Chrysostom. We must listen to Christ first and see if they conform with Him. Not that we are infallible.
Those church father quotes may also be misinterpreted
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 04:09:12 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,569
When I say good non Christian I mean someone who keeps all of Gods commandments so they are not excused if they lust or do sins of omission or any of the things that send Christians to hell. But to keep those commandments you need Gods grace which I'm not sure you can get without Christ
Perhaps they get that grace because they are non professing believers but I'm not sure maybe the non saved will spend eternity in hell but there are levels in hell

Offline mikeforjesus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,569
Gods grace is available to the non Christian if he is a non professing believer so if they keep the commandments they can be saved. When Jesus was asked by the lawyer what he must do to have eternal life He did not say confess Him but obey the commandments. One must atleast be a non professing believer otherwise he does not love Him with the mind and so will not listen to His words unless he obeys His word but why would he if he does not believe ?

As much as I want to say the above  is true we know salvation is only possible to believers according to John 3:16. Unless believing without actually confessing Christ by becoming a Christian you can be saved. I do not know. Can one be saved without being in the ark which is His church ?maybe  if they have someone to guide them to righteousness and keep them informed on the church meetings but those meetings are specially prepared taking into account those who attend because you can not be treated without the shepherd knowing his sheeps injuries. So the bible said shepherd the flock of God
Does believe in Jesus mean believe His word should be taken seriously as the ultimate authority ? Even if you just accept him as a prophet but His words being the only way to heaven ? With no one else interpreting it wrong for you ?
Or do we have to confess Jesus as God as when Jesus asked His disciples who do men say that I am ? And peter said you are the Son of God. And Jesus said upon that belief the gates of hades will not prevail in the churches built on that belief

But I don't know salvation may be personal and God may guide someone Himself so though possible harder. Besides it may be a lie and you may need to confess Him before men to help them be saved or why did He say confess Him ? Because God requires you to not have two people you worship Jesus and Buddha or Mohammed or Krishna
Because if you do not confess He is the truth people will sometimes follow those other people and you will be a stumbling block to their salvation and be responsible for them
So what if you confess Jesus as Lord but do not teach those who are not Christians will perish. Can you be saved ? If I say yes then what about the non Christian doesn't he also have to make the same confession as you ?
Perhaps they are only accountable to teach the truth when they know it but everyone who seeks will find I assume even if it is at their last moment. So you need to believe and confess without believing and confessing you can not be saved

But maybe God accepts them in the world to come but they will have less reward and I will  hold this. Confessing is better to save others especially those who don't follow Jesus commandments but is not necessary as it is personal you can love parents but not more than God you can accept your non Christian righteous parents but not let them hinder you from being Christian

From now on I will share my thoughts only with my father of confession after dealing with a few things I have not addressed. The above is possibly true I do not know

Luke 10
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’[a] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 10:20:19 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,569
I was seriously in error and deceiving you unintentionally You need to believe in Jesus as Lord to be saved. Here is the gospel. Just because one made some attempts at righteousness and prayed one can not claim to seek after God if he doesn't take the next step of accepting and confessing Christ which he knows he needs to to live according to the standards of Jesus and to justify him for his sins

Romans 3:9-4:5(NKJV)
All Have Sinned
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[g] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Abraham Justified by Faith
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[h] 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 10:05:35 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,569
Galatians 1:10 (NKJV)
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.