Author Topic: Why destroy cattle?  (Read 178 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online andrewlya

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,152
  • God is One & Jesus is the Messiah.
  • Jurisdiction: Pro-Conservatism. Anti-liberalism.
Why destroy cattle?
« on: March 16, 2015, 05:44:58 PM »
Hi all,

In 1 Samuel 15:3 it says :"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."?

Why was it necessary to even kill the cattle, sheep and donkeys at that particular time?

Thank you for clarifying,

God bless.
I believe in one God the Father and His Son the Messiah, the Savior of all people.

Offline Doof

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 06:25:39 PM »
Hi all,

In 1 Samuel 15:3 it says :"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."?

Why was it necessary to even kill the cattle, sheep and donkeys at that particular time?

Thank you for clarifying,

God bless.

No idea. But maybe to balance things? Everything in the world has been ordered in a perfect way for there to be life, water, oxygen on earth, and a Saviour to be born for the salvation of men.

Offline Volnutt

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,221
  • Lunacy loves company
  • Faith: Might become Orthodox
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 07:02:57 PM »
The ruins of Ai were to be "dedicated to the Lord," a euphemism for complete and utter destruction.

The Romans did one even better by sowing salt in the fields of Carthage so nothing could be grown there for decades afterward and by expunging even the very memory of a traitor from the record books.

It's just how they rolled in the ancient world.

It's also a practical consideration in that it prevents the Israelites from profiting off their conquests in terms other than land. This way they would be less tempted to just becomes bandits who used God to justify their depredations.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 07:03:30 PM by Volnutt »
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline Porter ODoran

  • Erst Amish Appalachian
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,937
  • Faith should; hope could; love would
    • Facebook page
  • Faith: GOAA
  • Jurisdiction: Catechumen
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 10:53:37 PM »
Don't you think it was enough for the ancient Hebrews to puzzle thru this once without your borrowing it? Surely you, and all of us, have moral dilemmas of our own.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Online andrewlya

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,152
  • God is One & Jesus is the Messiah.
  • Jurisdiction: Pro-Conservatism. Anti-liberalism.
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 01:04:08 PM »
Don't you think it was enough for the ancient Hebrews to puzzle thru this once without your borrowing it? Surely you, and all of us, have moral dilemmas of our own.
Sure we do, but it would be nice to know the reason behind certain things in the Bible, if possible. If I want to understand Bible, why can't I ask questions to which I would like to know the answers and learn about it?
I believe in one God the Father and His Son the Messiah, the Savior of all people.

Offline sakura95

  • Resident Philosonoob
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,197
  • Aegyo mode activate!!!✿
  • Faith: Orthodox seeker
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 01:48:20 PM »
Hi all,

In 1 Samuel 15:3 it says :"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."?

Why was it necessary to even kill the cattle, sheep and donkeys at that particular time?

Thank you for clarifying,

God bless.

Ever heard of Scorched Earth? It's a long time used military tactic where combatants destroy their own or their enemies' assets. There's definitely a moral dimension to this as well as Volnutt pointed out.
My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy

Online andrewlya

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,152
  • God is One & Jesus is the Messiah.
  • Jurisdiction: Pro-Conservatism. Anti-liberalism.
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 02:16:55 PM »
The ruins of Ai were to be "dedicated to the Lord," a euphemism for complete and utter destruction.

The Romans did one even better by sowing salt in the fields of Carthage so nothing could be grown there for decades afterward and by expunging even the very memory of a traitor from the record books.

It's just how they rolled in the ancient world.

It's also a practical consideration in that it prevents the Israelites from profiting off their conquests in terms other than land. This way they would be less tempted to just becomes bandits who used God to justify their depredations.
Thanks, but then in other verses spoils were allowed to be had? As in Joshua 8:27
"Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which he commanded Joshua" & Joshua 22:8 "And he spake unto them, saying, Return with much riches unto your tents, and with very much cattle, with silver, and with gold, and with brass, and with iron, and with very much raiment: divide the spoil of your enemies with your brethren."
I believe in one God the Father and His Son the Messiah, the Savior of all people.

Offline Volnutt

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,221
  • Lunacy loves company
  • Faith: Might become Orthodox
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2015, 06:31:35 PM »
The ruins of Ai were to be "dedicated to the Lord," a euphemism for complete and utter destruction.

The Romans did one even better by sowing salt in the fields of Carthage so nothing could be grown there for decades afterward and by expunging even the very memory of a traitor from the record books.

It's just how they rolled in the ancient world.

It's also a practical consideration in that it prevents the Israelites from profiting off their conquests in terms other than land. This way they would be less tempted to just becomes bandits who used God to justify their depredations.
Thanks, but then in other verses spoils were allowed to be had? As in Joshua 8:27
"Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which he commanded Joshua" & Joshua 22:8 "And he spake unto them, saying, Return with much riches unto your tents, and with very much cattle, with silver, and with gold, and with brass, and with iron, and with very much raiment: divide the spoil of your enemies with your brethren."

1 Samuel is about a relatively settled and prosperous Israel fighting off enemies whereas Joshua is the story of Israel first come out of the desert with limited resources. It's a different situation.

One could of course also take the view that God never really ordered conquests of any kind, the Israelites just thought He did. That view has problems of its own, though.
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline Porter ODoran

  • Erst Amish Appalachian
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,937
  • Faith should; hope could; love would
    • Facebook page
  • Faith: GOAA
  • Jurisdiction: Catechumen
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 09:34:58 PM »
Don't you think it was enough for the ancient Hebrews to puzzle thru this once without your borrowing it? Surely you, and all of us, have moral dilemmas of our own.
Sure we do, but it would be nice to know the reason behind certain things in the Bible, if possible. If I want to understand Bible, why can't I ask questions to which I would like to know the answers and learn about it?

Feel free to reread my post and give it some more thought. I don't charge anything.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline Jonathan Gress

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,559
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 10:25:48 PM »
Don't you think it was enough for the ancient Hebrews to puzzle thru this once without your borrowing it? Surely you, and all of us, have moral dilemmas of our own.
Sure we do, but it would be nice to know the reason behind certain things in the Bible, if possible. If I want to understand Bible, why can't I ask questions to which I would like to know the answers and learn about it?

Feel free to reread my post and give it some more thought. I don't charge anything.

I see you're LBK's new disciple, casting scorn on any questions you don't like just so you don't have to admit you don't know the answer. You know, given you're approaching your reception into the Church, a little more humility might suit you.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • Erst Amish Appalachian
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,937
  • Faith should; hope could; love would
    • Facebook page
  • Faith: GOAA
  • Jurisdiction: Catechumen
Re: Why destroy cattle?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 10:45:25 PM »
We need not borrow the sins and perplexities of ancient generations -- certainly not with such avidness as some "Bible-believers" do, making a favorite, salacious hobby of it -- when our present lives are replete with sins and perplexities equal to any generation's. God works in the present travail -- because it is with the present travail that he is teaching us. It is quite possible and probable that he simply will not be teaching us lessons that aren't our own -- only "generational arrogance," to borrow Dr. Lewis's phrase, tempts us to think otherwise. Meanwhile, we are so far from answers to our own condition.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus