Author Topic: Ancient Monotheisms & Trinitiarianisms: An, Ra, Yahweh, Shang Ti, Brahman, etc.  (Read 2415 times)

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Offline rakovsky

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Might you be able to get a good handle on this essay in Spanish (since Portuguse is close to Spanish) proposing that the secret name of Ra is "NTR", the Egyptian word for God, which the author connects to Physis and Natura?

About the Egyptian origin of the term nature and its relation with naturalistic medicine
Francisco Tomás Verdú Vicente writes in the journal MEDICINA NATURISTA, 2011; Vol. 5 - N.º 2: 80-81

Abstract:The term nature comes from the word Egyptian ntr and it means God. Later on the Greeks identified the divine thing with the goddess of the nature Isis creating the term Phisis and later the Romans denominated Nature.

The notion expressed by nutar as substantive and nutra as adjective or verb should be looked for in the Coptic Nout, which in the Biblical tradition corresponds to the Greek Dynamis (energy), ischis (strength), ischiros (strong), and and ischiron(protection). This form of neter means strong and protection.

I wrote about this a bit on the OO thread on understanding the meaning of the name "NTR".

This is relevant to Egyptian monotheism, because NTR is the name for the concept of a "god" in ancient Egyptian. They would simply refer to the single godhead or "the god" as "NTR". And this makes me interested in what this "NTR" means.

Here are some citations on the topic that propose that the meaning was related to the Latin "Natura":
Land of Osiris
By Stephen S. Mahler

First translated by early Egyptologists after Champollion as God or Goddess, this meaning [of NTR] has since been challenged. R A Schwaller de Lubicz was one of the first to question this translation in the early 1950's, choosing rather to define Neter as principle" and/or "attribute", as a divine aspect of the whole, not in the sense we use the word Deity. The Greeks [sic, no, it must be the Latins] derived their word Nature from Neter, therefore equating the Divine with the natural as the Khemitians taught them. The ancient Khemitians knew every principle or attribute of Nature was also divine, of God - all interconnected and interrelated to the whole, the source.

Religion and the Order of Nature
By Seyyed Hossein Nasr (Professor of Islamic Studies at George Washington University) (Oxford University Press)

...there are basic principles concerning the order of nature that continue through these transformations, such as the identification of cosmic elements with real divinities possessing a personal existence. Most important of these principles for the understanding of the order of nature is the Neter , which has received many interpretations, some even equating it with the Hebrew Wl. The Neter is a principle conveyed by a sign, the hieroglyph being itself called Medu-Neteru. It is the Idea of which a material object is the crystallization.
The order of nature is the reflection of the order that belongs to the realm of the principles or Neteru, which man also carries within his being as a consequence of his central position in the cosmic order. 'Every natural type is a revelation of one of the natures and abstract functions that rule the world, a verb of the divine language —that is, the entities or fully realized Principles (Neteru).

I think it is not really a far fetched idea that certain Latin or Greek words could have a common root with an Egyptian one. Take for example the word "Natron":

Natron deposits in the Era Kohor crater in the Tibesti Mountains, Chad

Natron is a naturally occurring mixture of sodium carbonate decahydrate (Na2CO3·10H2O, a kind of soda ash) and about 17% sodium bicarbonate (also called baking soda, NaHCO3) along with small quantities of sodium chloride and sodium sulfate.

The English word natron is a French cognate derived from the Spanish natrón through Greek νίτρον nitron. This derives from the Ancient Egyptian word nṯry 'natron'. Natron refers to Wadi El Natrun or Natron Valley in Egypt, from which natron was mined by the ancient Egyptians for use in burial rites.

Offline RaphaCam

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The article says pretty much what you have understood. Do you have any questions?

However, I think this etymology is fake. Natura is simply a participle form of nascor ("to be born", from which French naître, Spanish nacer, Portuguese nascer.

It's a coincidence that you posted a Spanish article on this thread. Yesterday I found a great article in Portuguese which added greatly to the topic. It may be worth a try at Google Translate. Its main points:
  • Akhenaten evoked a Christical archetype as the sole mediator between the One God and man
  • Atenism brought in a much popular (in the sense of belonging to the people) and exoteric ("open") cult to Egyptian society
  • Amenhotep III, Akhenaten's father, prenounced the henotheistic cult to Aten by making Amun-Ra the god of the empire
  • there was indeed a notion that Aten was the transcendental deity by which everything was effective
  • an excerpt in Psalm 104(103) was inspired by a hymn to Aten (God forgive me if this is wrong)
  • some cross-comparations with other solar deities and kings
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 11:14:23 AM by RaphaCam »
Only-begotten Son and Logos of God, being immortal, you condescended for our salvation to take flesh from the holy Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary and, without change, became man. Christ, our God, you were crucified and conquered death by death. Being one with the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit: save us.

Offline rakovsky

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Here are two pages by Orthodox on the theory that Shang Di, "the Supreme Deity", of the ancient Chinese, resembles the Israelite concept of one supreme God.

First, let me share with you "Ancient Chinese History in Light of the Book of Genesis" by Hieromonk Damascene. Here is a Table of Contents with two excerpts:
1. The Chinese Border Sacrifice: The Earliest Chinese Theology and Worship of God

The earliest account of religious worship in China is found in the Shu Jing (Book of History of Book of Documents), the oldest Chinese historical source. This book records that in the year 2230 B.C., the Emperor Shun “sacrificed to Shangdi.” That is, he sacrificed to the supreme God of the ancient Chinese, Shangdi meaning Supreme Ruler. This ceremony came to be known as the “Border Sacrifice,” because at the summer solstice and Emperor took part in ceremonies to the earth on the northern border of the country, and at the winter solstice he offered a sacrifice to heaven on the southern border.

Above: The Circular Mound Altar of the Temple of Heaven in Beijing, built in A. D. 1420, where the Emperor would offer sacrifice.

2. The Book of Genesis and the Beginnings of China

3. Chinese Recorded History in Light of the Bible

4. Indications of Ancient Chinese Knowledge of the Creation and the Global Flood

Yu the Great

These leftover Flood waters made parts of the land uninhabitable. At that time, according to Chinese history, there were the first righteous Chinese Emperors, Yao and Shun: the first emperors to offer the Border Sacrifices to Shangdi. To a man named Kun given the task of ridding the land of the flood waters, but he was not able to do so. It was not until Kun’s son, Yu, devised a new technique to channel the waters out to sea that the land was eventually made habitable. It took nine years for Yu to channel the waters out to sea. He became a hero because of this amazing feat. As a result, Shun turned the rulership over to Yu. Yu became emperor, thus beginning China’s first dynasty, the Xia.

5. About the Evolutionary Explanation of the Origin of the Chinese People

6. Chinese Dragons

The hieromonk finds in the sacrificial ritual a description of God and Creation:
The ceremony began: “Of old in the beginning, there was the great chaos, without form and dark. The five elements [planets] had not begun to revolve, nor the sun and the moon to shine. In the midst thereof there existed neither forms for sound. Thou, O spiritual Sovereign, camest forth in Thy presidency, and first didst divide the grosser parts from the purer. Thou madest heaven; Thou madest earth; Thou madest man. All things with their reproductive power got their being.” This recitation praising Shangdi as Creator of heaven and earth sounds surprisingly like the first chapter of Genesis: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep” (Genesis 1: 1- 2).

So, in the earliest records of Chinese religion, we see that the people worshiped One God, Who was Creator of all. We also see that the original people of China looked at Shangdi with a sense of love and a filial feeling. The Emperor continued his prayer: “Thou hast vouchsafed, O Di, to hear us, for Thou regardest us as a Father. I, Thy child, dull and unenlightened, am unable to show forth my dutiful feelings.”

Another Orthodox page hosts a presentation explaining the similarity between the ancient Chinese and Israelite concepts of a Supreme God:

The One True God In Ancient China
May 17, 2013 By Fr. John

The presenters explain how the stories of Genesis are a part of Chinese characters and history.