Author Topic: who is Judith Irene Matta  (Read 1248 times)

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Offline OrthoDisco

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who is Judith Irene Matta
« on: March 01, 2017, 09:07:19 PM »
Ive been watching some of her videos on Youtube and they are really informative. However, gradually Im having questions about what her position is. She seems a zealot (?)
examples:

Coptics (Oriental) aren't Orthodox
Fr. Seraphim Rose has been defrocked by the Holy Spirit (because of the tollhouses which even in his book he says its just an interpretation and not official orthodox teaching but whatever)
Obsessively talking about the RCC pope as evil. (Not fond of him either but its almost like a competition with Orthodoxy.)
Converts are better off going into the Greek Orthodox Church, rather than slavic where they have false teachers. (Meanwhile, I think she's in an OCA parish, but whatever)

Anyway, can someone inform me of why she holds some of these views? Or are these common views in Orthodoxy? Forgive my ignorance, Ive only been Orthodox a few years, and my entire church is made of converts.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 09:10:18 PM by OrthoDisco »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 10:59:14 PM »
I liked one or more of her videos and found those ones to be very good in describing standard Orthodoxy.

But you are describing things that turn out to be just her own personal views, like your saying that she teaches:
*Fr. Seraphim Rose has been defrocked by the Holy Spirit
*Converts are better off going into the Greek Orthodox Church, rather than slavic

Saying the RCC Pope is "evil" is going to be a somewhat subjective call sometimes IMO. I expect that in history the RCCs themselves would agree that there were evil popes, since some got defrocked by the RCCs themselves! AFAIK, Orthodox have no requirement to judge the RCC Pope as good or bad, and you will find a wide range of attitudes among Orthodox on individual popes.

So:
I think Fr. Rose is not "defrocked" by the Spirit, since he remained an EO priest and eg. AFAIK didn't do some unreprented extreme sin or major heresy.
My guess is it's best for converts to join the EO church where they feel the most welcome and self-identify, rather than picking Greek or Slavic. I would put that Slavic v Greek debate far down the totem pole, although actually I would pick the OCA as rather more tending to be better for Americans, one reason being how it started in Alaska as the first orthodox jurisdiction for America and has more focus on American identity than Greeks do.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 01:25:23 AM »
I've watched her videos, and apart from the Toll Houses, I haven't heard any of the other claims. She is the Presbytera of a priest (Fr. James Matta) who is under the Jerusalem Patriarchate (Palestinian-Jordanian Vicariate) in the United States.

She is not in OCA.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 01:30:05 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline OrthoDisco

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 01:33:44 AM »
I've watched her videos, and apart from the Toll Houses, I haven't heard any of the other claims.

Yeah i was watching a couple today and was kind of shocked by some of the things I was hearing.

I guess I'll just watch with caution. I do find them interesting. The things she was saying about Fr Seraphim really put me off balance, and shocked me, because I live near Platina and visit the monastery. I didn't realize there was such a controversy. And I don't want to repeat too much of here.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 01:36:50 AM »
I've watched her videos, and apart from the Toll Houses, I haven't heard any of the other claims.

Yeah i was watching a couple today and was kind of shocked by some of the things I was hearing.

I guess I'll just watch with caution. I do find them interesting. The things she was saying about Fr Seraphim really put me off balance, and shocked me, because I live near Platina and visit the monastery. I didn't realize there was such a controversy. And I don't want to repeat too much of here.
You are allowed to repeat things here I think.

Seraphim Rose is not canonized as a saint, but he is thoughtful and wrote a lot. Some Orthodox can and do make reasonable disagreements with statements he has given. That will happen when someone like him takes very strong positions on things hardly unanimous in the Church, eg. tollhouses, and writes alot.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline OrthoDisco

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 02:19:45 AM »
I've watched her videos, and apart from the Toll Houses, I haven't heard any of the other claims.

Yeah i was watching a couple today and was kind of shocked by some of the things I was hearing.

I guess I'll just watch with caution. I do find them interesting. The things she was saying about Fr Seraphim really put me off balance, and shocked me, because I live near Platina and visit the monastery. I didn't realize there was such a controversy. And I don't want to repeat too much of here.
You are allowed to repeat things here I think.

Seraphim Rose is not canonized as a saint, but he is thoughtful and wrote a lot. Some Orthodox can and do make reasonable disagreements with statements he has given. That will happen when someone like him takes very strong positions on things hardly unanimous in the Church, eg. tollhouses, and writes alot.

Well she seemed to also be implying that St John Maximovich was also to blame for Fr Seraphim Rose. Something that really shocked me. She also called Fr Seraphim a Gnostic new age teacher, and that he was not worthy to start a monastery. And basically he's not worthy to be a teacher.
Here is the link in case anyone was interested. She goes on about him for several minutes and even refers to the other Monks as his MINIONS! 
Start at 13.00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ldkwgKApvI&t=1138s

(Just as an aside related to toll houses, I was listening to a (ex)Muslim tell his story about how he died, and saw the Light, and demons were trying to pull him away from it, and he knew the light was Jesus. #just_sayin', lol)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 02:22:57 AM by OrthoDisco »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 02:32:09 AM »
What can I say?
You are not going to get every educated sincere Orthodox person agreeing on some issues, like: whether Fr. Seraphim Rose should be canonized or should be considered heretical (I would tend to say neither - ie he doesn't seem major enough for canonization, but I find some of his writings pretty helpful)
which Popes if any are "evil"
which non-EO churches, if any, should be considered theologically compatible with Orthodoxy.
...and many other issues.

I would not find disagreements on those kinds of things to be major emotional scandals.

If you want to look at actual major scandals, there are far far more important things than what some Presbytera with a generally nice and standard Orthodox podcast says.

I don't see any particular need to look for scandals in Orthodoxy intentionally, but nor do I see a need to avoid all mention of any.

If you want to search for something actually potentially scandalous, why not ask yourself how many soup kitchens you have participated in, or how many prisoners you wrote letters to in the last few years, or how many homeless people you visited.

This is because the kind of issue that is basic and matters and is often overlooked and is scandalous when ignored is charity work.

Peace.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 02:33:37 AM by rakovsky »
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Offline OrthoDisco

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 02:41:03 AM »
What can I say?
You are not going to get every educated sincere Orthodox person agreeing on some issues, like: whether Fr. Seraphim Rose should be canonized or should be considered heretical (I would tend to say neither - ie he doesn't seem major enough for canonization, but I find some of his writings pretty helpful)
which Popes if any are "evil"
which non-EO churches, if any, should be considered theologically compatible with Orthodoxy.
...and many other issues.

I would not find disagreements on those kinds of things to be major emotional scandals.

If you want to look at actual major scandals, there are far far more important things than what some Presbytera with a generally nice and standard Orthodox podcast says.

I don't see any particular need to look for scandals in Orthodoxy intentionally, but nor do I see a need to avoid all mention of any.

If you want to search for something actually potentially scandalous, why not ask yourself how many soup kitchens you have participated in, or how many prisoners you wrote letters to in the last few years, or how many homeless people you visited.

This is because the kind of issue that is basic and matters and is often overlooked and is scandalous when ignored is charity work.

Peace.

Thank you.
Im not trying to LOOK for scandals. I only wanted to know if this was someone I should be watching/listening to, and who was not going to lead me astray. Thanks anyway though.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 10:29:56 AM »
What can I say?
You are not going to get every educated sincere Orthodox person agreeing on some issues, like: whether Fr. Seraphim Rose should be canonized or should be considered heretical (I would tend to say neither - ie he doesn't seem major enough for canonization, but I find some of his writings pretty helpful)
which Popes if any are "evil"
which non-EO churches, if any, should be considered theologically compatible with Orthodoxy.
...and many other issues.

I would not find disagreements on those kinds of things to be major emotional scandals.

If you want to look at actual major scandals, there are far far more important things than what some Presbytera with a generally nice and standard Orthodox podcast says.

I don't see any particular need to look for scandals in Orthodoxy intentionally, but nor do I see a need to avoid all mention of any.

If you want to search for something actually potentially scandalous, why not ask yourself how many soup kitchens you have participated in, or how many prisoners you wrote letters to in the last few years, or how many homeless people you visited.

This is because the kind of issue that is basic and matters and is often overlooked and is scandalous when ignored is charity work.

Peace.

Thank you.
Im not trying to LOOK for scandals. I only wanted to know if this was someone I should be watching/listening to, and who was not going to lead me astray. Thanks anyway though.

Ok.

I see.

The best for you might be Ancient  Faith Radio.
It is high quality.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Schultz

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 12:11:21 PM »
I'm no big fan of Fr. Seraphim, but what Presbytera Judith is saying is pretty out there, esp her bringing St. John Maximovitch into it.  By all means, counter the toll house theory, but she's attacking the man, as well, and casting aspersions on his person rather than his ideas.  He did nothing w/o the blessing of his local bishop and was validly ordained. 

I agree with rakovsky.  Stick to AFR.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 12:16:15 PM »
She is deluded if she think it's OK to use that tone to talk about a great, recognised, saint like John of Shanghai. Does she know how many other saints also taught the toll houses? "So-called father" Seraphim Rose? "Man called Ephrem"? If there are indeed toll houses, I hope she has a calm passing through them, and these awful words are compensated by her good deeds.
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Offline recent convert

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 01:07:11 PM »
Going by what you said in the first post, the best option seems to avoid.
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Offline Yasen

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2017, 09:49:09 AM »
I liked her videos, although I have not watched all her videos. But I was stunned when I heard Presbytera Judith say in the video:"Orthodox Christianity: Understanding Heaven and Earth", minutes 18:19-18:42:"Man dies not die because he is guilty of a sin committed long ago by Adam. He becomes a sinner himself. Because he is yoked to the power of the devil through death and sin reigned in death. (Romans 5:21). It's because of death that sin reigns in us."; from minute 21:11 to 22:03:"Now the Greek phrase in Romans 5:12 which has been so misinterpreted by the Latin translation, by the way, of the Greek. We have the true translation understood - came into all the world. Death came into all the world on the basis of which all have sinned. That Romans 5:12. The correct interpretation of this passage grammatically in the Greek can be suplued only when thanatos is the main subject. It is on the basis of death that all have sinned. We don't inherit the sin of Adam." From minutes 22:28 to 23: she quotes from the book "Original sin according to St.Paul" by Dr.Rev. J.S. Romanised. He is her main source in rejecting our inheritance of the original sin of Adam and the inheritance as the reason for our mortality and depravity of nature. In the video ''Orthodox Christianity: Of Kings and Bishops'', minutes 43:44-44:04, she says:"You have the original teaching where babies are not born depraved as Augustine said because of his misunderstanding of original sin but we receive mortality from Adam and from the second Adam we receive immortality and incorruption.’’ The statement that babies are not born depraved, i.e. that the original sin is not inherited from Adam by all humans, and that we receive from Adam only mortality but not the original sin, is one part of the heresy of the British monk Pelagius (c.360-418) which was condemned at the Local Council of Carthage (419 CE). Cannon 110 (124) of the mentioned Council (the number of each canon is different in the different canonical codices because in some of the codices some of the canons are divided in parts) says: ''Likewise it seemed good that whosoever denies that infants newly from their mother's wombs should be baptized, or says that baptism is for remission of sins, but that they derive from Adam no original sin, which needs to be removed by the laver of regeneration, from whence the conclusion follows, that in them the form of baptism for the remission of sins, is to be understood as false and not true, let him be anathema. For no otherwise can be understood what the Apostle says, By one man sin has come into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed upon all men in that all have sinned, than the Catholic Church everywhere diffused has always understood it. For on account of this rule of faith (regulam fidei) even infants, who could have committed as yet no sin themselves, therefore are truly baptized for the remission of sins, in order that what in them is the result of generation may be cleansed by regeneration.’’ (Council of Carthage, Canon 110 (124)). This is important because many viewers of the video could be misled into thinking that the rejection of the inheritance of the original sin by all humans from Adam, is an Orthodox teaching while it is not. The Orthodox teaching is that we all inherit it. The Council of Carthage is one if the ten Local Council that are accepted by the Church and its Holy Canons are necessary to follow:"It has also seemed good to this holy Council, that the eighty-five canons, received and ratified by the holy and blessed Fathers before us, and also handed down to us in the name of the holy and glorious Apostles should from this time forth remain firm and unshaken for the cure of souls and the healing of disorders. And in these canons we are bidden to receive the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles [written] by Clement. But formerly through the agency of those who erred from the faith certain adulterous matter was introduced, clean contrary to piety, for the polluting of the Church, which obscures the elegance and beauty of the divine decrees in their present form. We therefore reject these Constitutions so as the better to make sure of the edification and security of the most Christian flock; by no means admitting the offspring of heretical error, and cleaving to the pure and perfect doctrine of the Apostles. But we set our seal likewise upon all the other holy canons set forth by our holy and blessed Fathers, that is, by the 318 holy God-bearing Fathers assembled at Nice, and those at Ancyra, further those at Neocæsarea and likewise those at Gangra, and besides, those at Antioch in Syria: those too at Laodicea in Phrygia: and likewise the 150 who assembled in this heaven-protected royal city: and the 200 who assembled the first time in the metropolis of the Ephesians, and the 630 holy and blessed Fathers at Chalcedon. In like manner those of Sardica, and those of Carthage: those also who again assembled in this heaven-protected royal city under its bishop Nectarius and Theophilus Archbishop of Alexandria. Likewise too the Canons [i.e. the decretal letters] of Dionysius, formerly Archbishop of the great city of Alexandria; and of Peter, Archbishop of Alexandria and Martyr; of Gregory the Wonder-worker, Bishop of Neocæsarea; of Athanasius, Archbishop of Alexandria; of Basil, Archbishop of Cæsarea in Cappadocia; of Gregory, Bishop of Nyssa; of Gregory Theologus; of Amphilochius of Iconium; of Timothy, Archbishop of Alexandria; of Theophilus, Archbishop of the same great city of Alexandria; of Cyril, Archbishop of the same Alexandria; of Gennadius, Patriarch of this heaven-protected royal city. Moreover the Canon set forth by Cyprian, Archbishop of the country of the Africans and Martyr, and by the Synod under him, which has been kept only in the country of the aforesaid Bishops, according to the custom delivered down to them. And that no one be allowed to transgress or disregard the aforesaid canons, or to receive others beside them, supposititiously set forth by certain who have attempted to make a traffic of the truth. But should any one be convicted of innovating upon, or attempting to overturn, any of the afore-mentioned canons, he shall be subject to receive the penalty which that canon imposes, and to be cured by it of his transgression." (Canon II of the Council if Trullo (692 CE)). The rejection of the inheritance of he original sin by us from Adam, is a Pelagian heresy. In the final credits of her video "Journey into Orthodoxy (Part 3) Presbyters Irene Matta MTh", there appears among her sources the book Ancestral sin" by John Romanides. In this book he rejects the inheritance by all humans of Adam's original sin.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: who is Judith Irene Matta
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 04:48:02 PM »
Please divide your posts up better. It hurts my eyes to read wall-o-text.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

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