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Author Topic: How Would the Church Deal with Conjoined Twins?  (Read 956 times) Average Rating: 0
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JamesR
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2014, 05:31:46 PM »

Adoption would certainly be the safer alternative. Risking such a pregnancy is a recipe for disaster. It must however be burdensome for them to never be able to experience sex should they become Orthodox. But I guess if I'm going to be a virgin forever, they can too.

I will laugh if they beat you to it. 

They probably will. They seem like decent people. Unfortunately it will probably be considered sinful though, however.
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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2014, 05:39:51 PM »

Since they have lived to be 24, they're likely to have a normal lifespan. There have been some extraordinary gymnastics involved to make their lives as normal as possible, but I really can't see marriage and family having that much leeway.
The two men for whom the term "Siamese Twins" was coined were both married and had 21 children between them.



Those were men, not females.

These conjoined ladies, one of whom is apparently the weaker twin, might have life-threatening problems should they get pregnant.
I wouldn't argue that they, being the child bearers in the relationship should they choose to have a family, wouldn't have a more difficult time than men in the same position, but I point it out the Bunker brothers to serve as an example of conjoined twins who have in the past been able to be married and enjoy some level of physical expression of their marriage despite their unique situation.

Of course such unique arrangements would have to be approached with much prayer, but who are we to exclude them that joy if they can find it?
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« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2014, 05:46:30 PM »

all y'all just have nothing better to do with your time do you?


Seriously....back away from the speculating about anyone else's genitals on the internets...and go pray...for that matter go eat dinner, read a book, talk to a human in person (not about your genitals or theirs)


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« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2014, 06:19:01 PM »

I hope those twins aren't in the habit of Googling their names.  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2014, 06:33:57 PM »

Seriously....back away from the speculating about anyone else's genitals on the internets...and go pray...for that matter go eat dinner, read a book, talk to a human in person (not about your genitals or theirs)
What do you talk about if genitals is off the table?
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« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2014, 06:35:42 PM »

Better that his mind is on genitals than that his genitals are on genitals.

Not sure about that. He might be be a bit more chilled out.
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« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2014, 08:38:14 PM »

Seriously....back away from the speculating about anyone else's genitals on the internets...and go pray...for that matter go eat dinner, read a book, talk to a human in person (not about your genitals or theirs)
What do you talk about if genitals is off the table?
I was wondering the same thing.
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« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2014, 08:40:23 PM »

Seriously....back away from the speculating about anyone else's genitals on the internets...and go pray...for that matter go eat dinner, read a book, talk to a human in person (not about your genitals or theirs)
What do you talk about if genitals is off the table?

Orthodoxy
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« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2014, 08:44:44 PM »

Seriously....back away from the speculating about anyone else's genitals on the internets...and go pray...for that matter go eat dinner, read a book, talk to a human in person (not about your genitals or theirs)
What do you talk about if genitals is off the table?

Orthodoxy
To people?  Like real people?  But how will they know about my genital problems?
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« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2014, 08:47:54 PM »

Seriously....back away from the speculating about anyone else's genitals on the internets...and go pray...for that matter go eat dinner, read a book, talk to a human in person (not about your genitals or theirs)
What do you talk about if genitals is off the table?

Orthodoxy
To people?  Like real people?  But how will they know about my genital problems?

You would think that'd be a benefit.  You want that sort of attention?
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« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2014, 08:51:30 PM »

I dunno, after going to HuffPo, I'm pretty sure I know about everyone's sexual and genital issues.  I thought it was one of those things that we all discuss with each other now in this brave new world of oversharing.
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« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2014, 10:11:36 PM »

Amazing.  A bishop is capable of deciding on what to do with conjoined twins wanting to get married, but not on how to adorn church buildings or what kind of plates and cups to use for the Eucharist. 

Yep, churches are not people.   Bishops guide in oddities (as elders).  That doesn't mean you over write the scriptures.  I think this is why ad hominems are not good Mor as it stirs debate from other threads and puts them in an obscure spot.  I care about people, not lifeless objects which God created anyway.   

This is James's curiosity.  You don't have to fight me on every thread.  It's just what I'd do... 

I mean seriously, what do you do with a situation like this? 

Besides, a bishop may just shrug anyway.  What the heck ya gonna do?

If these girls/girl wanted to marry 1 man, okedokie - would you stop them?

LOL -  JAMES - YOU HAD TO GO HERE!  Wink
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« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2014, 10:16:52 PM »

Amazing.  A bishop is capable of deciding on what to do with conjoined twins wanting to get married, but not on how to adorn church buildings or what kind of plates and cups to use for the Eucharist. 

Yep, churches are not people.   Bishops guide in oddities (as elders).  That doesn't mean you over write the scriptures.  I think this is why ad hominems are not good Mor as it stirs debate from other threads and puts them in an obscure spot.  I care about people, not lifeless objects which God created anyway.   

This is James's curiosity.  You don't have to fight me on every thread.  It's just what I'd do... 

I'm not fighting you, I'm demonstrating your inconsistency.  If a bishop has the authority to do the greater, he has the authority to do the lesser.  You have it backwards. 
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« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2014, 10:19:29 PM »

I imagine that if they share the same set of genitals -- therefore making that set belonging to them both -- a marriage wouldn't be possible.  Any man that they choose can't be married to both of them (unless it's bigamy, which the Church wouldn't recommend anyway), and so any coitus to consummate the marriage would also be raping and/or committing adultery with the twin who was not married to the man in question.
Seems like it would be kinda harsh for the Church to bar them from marriage.  I'm guessing there are no canons on the issue.  Tongue

Not necessarily that harsh. It already bars LGBTs, polygamists, pedophiles, and several other people from marriage for a wide range of reasons. Conjoined twins with shared genitals would just be one more group to add to this list for their own unique reasons.
They are barred for reasons having to do with sin. Conjoined twins are not sinning. Not unless John 9:3 got cut out of the Bible while I wasn't looking.

They are barred to prevent sin from occurring, which would be polygamy and thus adultery.
I do not know enough (nor do I want to know enough) about the twins anatomy to evaluate your statement, but just because there is one "lady part" and two ladies heads doesn't necessarily make it adultery.

These twins have two heads, two hearts, two livers with only one gallbladder, two stomachs, and share three kidneys, but they are joined at the lower level containing the gut and the genitals.
To be more explicit, would both girls experience an orgasm or would just one and the other be a rather close bystander? If the nerves are connected to one girl and not the other, I wouldn't see that as any sort of bigamy.  Poor girls to have random strangers discussing their sex options on the internet.  I'm sure this is not the first forum that has speculated on such issues.

The interenet.

I'm with you, this is most definitely not the first forum to talk about this...

But I wonder... would we really "go there" in person.

I'm gonna go make a sandwich on some fantastic Rye bread... and back out of this thread for now.

JamesR.... oh boy JamesR.   Tongue   Too much brother... too much.

LOL

I pray God's will be done in their lives.
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« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2014, 10:29:01 PM »

Amazing.  A bishop is capable of deciding on what to do with conjoined twins wanting to get married, but not on how to adorn church buildings or what kind of plates and cups to use for the Eucharist. 

Yep, churches are not people.   Bishops guide in oddities (as elders).  That doesn't mean you over write the scriptures.  I think this is why ad hominems are not good Mor as it stirs debate from other threads and puts them in an obscure spot.  I care about people, not lifeless objects which God created anyway.   

This is James's curiosity.  You don't have to fight me on every thread.  It's just what I'd do... 

I'm not fighting you, I'm demonstrating your inconsistency.  If a bishop has the authority to do the greater, he has the authority to do the lesser.  You have it backwards. 

Mor, let's not do this over a "two headed" young lady(ies) / conjoined twins.

Tell you what, I'll back off of my post in this thread on bishop's authority.  I don't really know what I'd do brother.... All I can think of is to bring somebody to Christ and try to make them happy in a situation like that.  Who would question it anyway... seriously?

Wow I feel bad for those girls.   I've seen a lot of stuff and deformities (especially in animals).   We always put down animals who are deformed... But in this case we have human beings who deserve life in Christ.

I just can't imagine...

I like TheTrisagion's response the best.   "put it in the I don't know folder until it happens".   

JamesR.... man.... He's got to be one of those people that if you have a good conversation with him he'll be deep, smart, intelligent, and then he'll GO THERE on subjects.  That's some genuine stuff right there.  LOL...

I have a good friend like that.  We have the best conversations that can span for hours.   The next thing we know the conversation GOES there and the conversation starts going downhill.  hahaha
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« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2014, 10:30:10 PM »

Are you writing under the influence of alcohol?
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« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2014, 10:34:29 PM »

Yesh, you can just go ahead and stop acting like ol' James is the cause here.  You were doing some deep speculation about these girls on your own. James may have started the thread, but you more than willingly participated and wondered about the morality and mechanics of these girls' potential sex lives. So go ahead and quit the "Aw shucks, James" thing.
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« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2014, 10:53:00 PM »

I think you guys just like to fight and argue.

Look, clear to the point.

I was speaking in CONTEXT of James's thread.  It's that simple and plainly obvious.  He was asking what the EO church would do if the girls entered the church.

I said "if I was a bishop"...  Well of course I am not a bishop.

Mor understands this as "since you say that if you were a bishop you'd do this and that" somehow means I validate the bishops authority in some aspects while denying it on others. (inconsistency)   He wanted to prove my inconsistency when I was plainly speaking in hypothetics "if I was an Orthodox bishop".

Well time to come back to reality. (me sober up?)  I am not an Eastern Orthodox bishop.    Me hypothetically making myself one doesn't show my POV as inconsistent.   Good grief.  Are things that desperate to prove me wrong?   Obviously the OP's question was about the church.  Hypothetically if I was a bishop, I'd think I'd have the authority.... Right?  Okay.

Kelly, you don't know guy talk at all.  I was laughing WITH James (not blaming him).  I enjoy his mind a bunch.  James is hilarious and reminds me of myself in ways. 
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« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2014, 10:56:45 PM »

I think you guys just like to fight and argue.


You are just figuring this out now?  laugh
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« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2014, 11:00:09 PM »

I think you guys just like to fight and argue.


You are just figuring this out now?  laugh

No not really.  Smiley   Mor doesn't always fight with me, we just disagree a lot on theological issues.
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« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2014, 11:01:42 PM »

I think you guys just like to fight and argue.


You are just figuring this out now?  laugh

No not really.  Smiley   Mor doesn't always fight with me, we just disagree a lot on theological issues.
You disagree with everyone on theological issues. I think sometimes you even disagree with yourself on theological issues.  Tongue
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« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2014, 11:02:33 PM »

Hypothetically if I was a bishop, I'd think I'd have the authority.... Right?  Okay.

You just made my point for me.  So what was all that stuff that came before this sentence?    

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Kelly, you don't know guy talk at all.

I get that you are into that whole women submitting to men thing, but unless Kelly is your wife (or one of them, if you're into that sort of thing) or your daughter, I don't know if you have the right to be so free with her.  

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I was laughing WITH James (not blaming him).  I enjoy his mind a bunch.  James is hilarious and reminds me of myself in ways. 











...I don't know what to do with that.
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« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2014, 11:16:47 PM »

Hypothetically if I was a bishop, I'd think I'd have the authority.... Right?  Okay.

You just made my point for me.  So what was all that stuff that came before this sentence?    

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Kelly, you don't know guy talk at all.

I get that you are into that whole women submitting to men thing, but unless Kelly is your wife (or one of them, if you're into that sort of thing) or your daughter, I don't know if you have the right to be so free with her.  

Quote
I was laughing WITH James (not blaming him).  I enjoy his mind a bunch.  James is hilarious and reminds me of myself in ways. 

...I don't know what to do with that.

Exactly, if I was an EO bishop I'd THINK I'd have the authority.    It's the entire point.  I am not.  Not only because I'd never make it there, but because I disagree with them.

I don't see how I spoke to Kelly in a "tone" of her submitting to me.    If you think that it was, you'll need to read your own saint's writings on what submission is.   Hint - it has nothing to do with domination, ugliness, or any of that sort.

I think it is pretty obvious I wasn't attacking JamesR which she twisted that way.

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« Reply #68 on: July 23, 2014, 11:49:14 PM »

Hypothetically if I was a bishop, I'd think I'd have the authority.... Right?  Okay.

You just made my point for me.  So what was all that stuff that came before this sentence?    

Quote
Kelly, you don't know guy talk at all.

I get that you are into that whole women submitting to men thing, but unless Kelly is your wife (or one of them, if you're into that sort of thing) or your daughter, I don't know if you have the right to be so free with her.  


Oh, the knight in shining armor.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2014, 11:50:06 PM »

Hypothetically if I was a bishop, I'd think I'd have the authority.... Right?  Okay.

You just made my point for me.  So what was all that stuff that came before this sentence?    

Quote
Kelly, you don't know guy talk at all.

I get that you are into that whole women submitting to men thing, but unless Kelly is your wife (or one of them, if you're into that sort of thing) or your daughter, I don't know if you have the right to be so free with her.  

Quote
I was laughing WITH James (not blaming him).  I enjoy his mind a bunch.  James is hilarious and reminds me of myself in ways. 

...I don't know what to do with that.

Exactly, if I was an EO bishop I'd THINK I'd have the authority.    It's the entire point.  I am not.  Not only because I'd never make it there, but because I disagree with them.

I don't see how I spoke to Kelly in a "tone" of her submitting to me.    If you think that it was, you'll need to read your own saint's writings on what submission is.   Hint - it has nothing to do with domination, ugliness, or any of that sort.

I think it is pretty obvious I wasn't attacking JamesR which she twisted that way.



Mor and kelly both have bees in their bonnets lately. Ignore them!
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« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2014, 11:51:13 PM »

What?  Huh

I don't even have a bonnet.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 11:51:54 PM by kelly » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2014, 12:09:24 AM »

Mor and kelly both have bees in their bonnets lately. Ignore them!

Maria,

I'm allergic to bees, wasps, etc.  I've been stung by them and almost died twice.  Are you wishing for my death?  If it is not a death wish, I'm not sure what this is, because I'm a man and do not wear a bonnet.  Asking for my death is a new low, even for you. 
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« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2014, 12:11:38 AM »

Mor and kelly both have bees in their bonnets lately. Ignore them!

Maria,

I'm allergic to bees, wasps, etc.  I've been stung by them and almost died twice.  Are you wishing for my death?  If it is not a death wish, I'm not sure what this is, because I'm a man and do not wear a bonnet.  Asking for my death is a new low, even for you.  

Mor,

Now I know that you have the curse of exaggerating.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
How could  I have known that you must wear a bee bonnet to avoid being stung?

I also wear a bee bonnet when gardening, but even still, those miniature green sweat bees have gotten inside the bonnet and stung me. Nasty critters.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 12:14:15 AM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2014, 12:21:24 AM »

Well, I don't know what the heck just happened. But I think I can proudly say that I was never stung or bitten by a bee--not even those scary big black ones in California that fly real slowly.
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« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2014, 12:22:03 AM »

Mor and kelly both have bees in their bonnets lately. Ignore them!

Maria,

I'm allergic to bees, wasps, etc.  I've been stung by them and almost died twice.  Are you wishing for my death?  If it is not a death wish, I'm not sure what this is, because I'm a man and do not wear a bonnet.  Asking for my death is a new low, even for you.  

Mor,

Now I know that you have the curse of exaggerating.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
How could  I have known that you must wear a bee bonnet to avoid being stung?

I also wear a bee bonnet when gardening, but even still, those miniature green sweat bees have gotten inside the bonnet and stung me. Nasty critters.

Maria,

I'm not sure why you insist on dismissing and even ridiculing my medical condition and making me out to be a cross-dresser.  I do not wear women's clothing, and I really wish you would stop insinuating otherwise.  
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Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

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« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2014, 12:23:27 AM »

One time I picked a flower and smelled it. A hidden bee stung my forehead. I still have a tiny scar from it.

Nature is beautiful, but deadly.

Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2014, 12:28:31 AM »

[Retracted]

Nothing to see here
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 12:42:15 AM by JamesR » Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2014, 12:33:42 AM »

.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 12:41:06 AM by kelly » Logged

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« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2014, 12:39:49 AM »

Mor and kelly both have bees in their bonnets lately. Ignore them!

Maria,

I'm allergic to bees, wasps, etc.  I've been stung by them and almost died twice.  Are you wishing for my death?  If it is not a death wish, I'm not sure what this is, because I'm a man and do not wear a bonnet.  Asking for my death is a new low, even for you.  

Mor,

Now I know that you have the curse of exaggerating.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
How could  I have known that you must wear a bee bonnet to avoid being stung?

I also wear a bee bonnet when gardening, but even still, those miniature green sweat bees have gotten inside the bonnet and stung me. Nasty critters.

Maria,

I'm not sure why you insist on dismissing and even ridiculing my medical condition and making me out to be a cross-dresser.  I do not wear women's clothing, and I really wish you would stop insinuating otherwise.  

Mor,

Your exaggerations are something else. Are you under the influence of some substance?

Bee bonnets are not something that only females wear. Beekeepers wear those white wire mesh bonnets for protection. Those are definitely not a he/she issue, but unisexual. I also have an insect screen that I purchased from Sports Chalet. It has elastic in it and it slips over one of those boonie hats, that men wear.

Please get some sleep.
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« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2014, 12:44:11 AM »

Back on topic:

Here is how a pregnant lady looks at 37 weeks:

Like she has a huge beach ball inside her.

Now how could those conjoined twins ever expect to endure this?

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJKRVAi9DM

Article:
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/07/23/amazing-clip-of-a-pregnant-woman-at-36-weeks-i-was-stunned/
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« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2014, 12:47:11 AM »

[Retracted]

Nothing to see here

BTW, regarding the image you posted after you quoted an out of context post of mine from Politics, in violation of the forum rules, did you mean for the pot to be grey and the kettle brown?  That's not how that expression goes. 
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Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
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« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2014, 12:52:48 AM »

One time I picked a flower and smelled it. A hidden bee stung my forehead. I still have a tiny scar from it.

Nature is beautiful, but deadly.

Lord have mercy.

A mountain lion is also a beautiful creature, but deadly.
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« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2014, 12:54:05 AM »

[Retracted]

Nothing to see here

BTW, regarding the image you posted after you quoted an out of context post of mine from Politics, in violation of the forum rules, did you mean for the pot to be grey and the kettle brown?  That's not how that expression goes. 

Maybe you're the brown kettle.
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Remove the plank of lust from your own eye and you will be able to clearly see the speck of backflesh through the buttonhole of another.
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« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2014, 12:58:46 AM »

[Retracted]

Nothing to see here

BTW, regarding the image you posted after you quoted an out of context post of mine from Politics, in violation of the forum rules, did you mean for the pot to be grey and the kettle brown?  That's not how that expression goes. 

Maybe you're the brown kettle.

I am a brown man...
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Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
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« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2014, 01:02:17 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJKRVAi9DM

You absolutely must see this video. It is awesome.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 01:02:34 AM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2014, 08:39:37 AM »

Mor and kelly both have bees in their bonnets lately. Ignore them!

Maria,

I'm allergic to bees, wasps, etc.  I've been stung by them and almost died twice.  Are you wishing for my death?  If it is not a death wish, I'm not sure what this is, because I'm a man and do not wear a bonnet.  Asking for my death is a new low, even for you.  

Mor,

Now I know that you have the curse of exaggerating.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
How could  I have known that you must wear a bee bonnet to avoid being stung?

I also wear a bee bonnet when gardening, but even still, those miniature green sweat bees have gotten inside the bonnet and stung me. Nasty critters.

Maria,

I'm not sure why you insist on dismissing and even ridiculing my medical condition and making me out to be a cross-dresser.  I do not wear women's clothing, and I really wish you would stop insinuating otherwise.  

Mor,

Your exaggerations are something else. Are you under the influence of some substance?

Bee bonnets are not something that only females wear. Beekeepers wear those white wire mesh bonnets for protection. Those are definitely not a he/she issue, but unisexual. I also have an insect screen that I purchased from Sports Chalet. It has elastic in it and it slips over one of those boonie hats, that men wear.

Please get some sleep.
Geez Maria, I spent all night last night comforting a sobbing Mor Ephrem who had a mental breakdown from accusations transexuality and death wishes.  The only way I could comfort him was by processing around his room with the icon of St. Dioscorus, but now my own salvation is in peril for venerating a miaphysite heretic.  This whole thing goes from bad to worse.
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Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
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« Reply #86 on: July 24, 2014, 05:30:06 PM »

Mor and kelly both have bees in their bonnets lately. Ignore them!

Maria,

I'm allergic to bees, wasps, etc.  I've been stung by them and almost died twice.  Are you wishing for my death?  If it is not a death wish, I'm not sure what this is, because I'm a man and do not wear a bonnet.  Asking for my death is a new low, even for you.  

Mor,

Now I know that you have the curse of exaggerating.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
How could  I have known that you must wear a bee bonnet to avoid being stung?

I also wear a bee bonnet when gardening, but even still, those miniature green sweat bees have gotten inside the bonnet and stung me. Nasty critters.

Maria,

I'm not sure why you insist on dismissing and even ridiculing my medical condition and making me out to be a cross-dresser.  I do not wear women's clothing, and I really wish you would stop insinuating otherwise.  

Mor,

Your exaggerations are something else. Are you under the influence of some substance?

Bee bonnets are not something that only females wear. Beekeepers wear those white wire mesh bonnets for protection. Those are definitely not a he/she issue, but unisexual. I also have an insect screen that I purchased from Sports Chalet. It has elastic in it and it slips over one of those boonie hats, that men wear.

Please get some sleep.
Geez Maria, I spent all night last night comforting a sobbing Mor Ephrem who had a mental breakdown from accusations transexuality and death wishes.  The only way I could comfort him was by processing around his room with the icon of St. Dioscorus, but now my own salvation is in peril for venerating a miaphysite heretic.  This whole thing goes from bad to worse.

Proof that men are being rendered genderless by something out there.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 05:43:38 PM by Maria » Logged

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Glory to Him forever!
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