Author Topic: If Jesus is God...  (Read 25181 times)

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #450 on: November 21, 2016, 05:22:48 PM »
That does not justify the use of "scoring points" when refuting heresies.  You do your best and leave the rest to God, whether it be for the sake of those that may not be lead astray or against those who are leading people astray.  But you don't "dunk apologetics shots" on anyone.  It doesn't become evangelism anymore.  It becomes politics.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline wgw

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #451 on: November 21, 2016, 05:47:01 PM »
Indeed, I do not "dunk apologetics shots."  That said, I partially disagree: I believe we should keep track of our efficacy, and not pursue lines of argument which have in our experience proven to be inefficacious.

For example, cuit evangelists will frequently challenge one to provide sources or citations, which of course one has, but it is best where possible to defer such requests, because these requests are usually not made in good faith; whatever material you provide will be distorted and misused or misquoted.  A better approach is to, where possible, set some objective, some show of good faith from the cult evangelist, before providing the information.  One has to be careful at the same time not to be entirely too blasé about tactically withholding such information because this simply colours one as a disagreeable person and is not endearing.

People who are cult evangelists are not per se dishonest, but they have acquired certain toxic mental constructs that impair their ability to correctly process information.  As a result one has to use a different approach with them compared to what one uses with the undecided.

Now, you might ask, how does one tell a cult evangelist from an undecided inquirer?  I would answer that this becomes evident after a certain amount of interaction; one can usually deduce when questions are not being asked in good faith.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline minasoliman

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #452 on: November 21, 2016, 05:49:47 PM »
Still:

That does not justify the use of "scoring points" when refuting heresies.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 05:50:11 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline wgw

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #453 on: November 21, 2016, 05:57:21 PM »
Still:

That does not justify the use of "scoring points" when refuting heresies.

But again: one has to measure efficacy.  If you don't care about efficacy you are merely shooting the breeze, at best.  At worst, you might actually be engaging in a counter-productive activity.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline minasoliman

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #454 on: November 21, 2016, 10:36:44 PM »
Still:

That does not justify the use of "scoring points" when refuting heresies.

But again: one has to measure efficacy.  If you don't care about efficacy you are merely shooting the breeze, at best.  At worst, you might actually be engaging in a counter-productive activity.

You're missing the point.  Efficacy=Give glory to God not to yourself; "scoring points"=bad: giving glory to yourself, not to God

Plus you're demeaning the gospel
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 10:39:41 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #455 on: November 21, 2016, 11:07:38 PM »
Plus you're demeaning the gospel

Why let that get in the way of a good time?
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #456 on: November 22, 2016, 12:40:40 AM »
Jesus is fully man and fully God. And he 'emptied' Himself of His power. (c.f., Philippians 2:5-11)
"Let books be your dining table, / And you shall be full of delights. / Let them be your
mattress,/And you shall sleep restful nights" (St. Ephraim the Syrian)

Offline wgw

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Re: If Jesus is God...
« Reply #457 on: November 22, 2016, 01:08:55 AM »
Jesus is fully man and fully God. And he 'emptied' Himself of His power. (c.f., Philippians 2:5-11)

Indeed.   The icon "Extreme humility" comes to mind.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!