Author Topic: Why are miracles in the Orthodox Church so dim?  (Read 1107 times)

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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Why are miracles in the Orthodox Church so dim?
« Reply #135 on: May 14, 2015, 09:06:37 AM »
Astrology is prohibited by like a gazillion canons not to mention scriptural and apostolic injunctions.  It is extremely dangerous.  Fabio I expect knows this and was instead referring to the steep learning curve for astrophysics, which requires a thorough knowledge of classical physics, general relativity and mathematics, and of astronomy and other related sciences to truly know at a deep level.  Thus the ability to discern the existence of black holes came to scientists only after centuries of what one might call a form of academic ascesis.  Although from my own experiences with CS I would say what we do is anything but ascetic; most people if not all who are really good at math love it and view it as an essential creative pursuit.  For them denial would be to not do math.  So I'm not sure I would call it ascetic; it might look like ascesis to someone who lives a certain lifestyle of physical indulgence but if you have an active mind it is painful to not engage it.

So I assume/hope this is what Fabio was talking about and not astrology or other forms of divination.

Yes, I was talking about astronomy, not astrology. :)

True asceticism is also out of love, so I think the analogy holds. :) In fact, when I read about people claimed to be ascetics, I try to discern if they are doing it out of love for God, not unlike a scientist denies many things out of love for science.  When it's not out of love yet, I tend to think it is at most "a work in progress".

The whole "Love God above everything else" is actually about that: God is the only "thing" worthy of giving up everything else. Our exarcebated loves for our jobs, families, ideologies, causes or worse, for our passions are all forms of idolatry.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 09:08:16 AM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline Dan-Romania

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Re: Why are miracles in the Orthodox Church so dim?
« Reply #136 on: May 15, 2015, 11:03:35 AM »
What do you even know? I know millions of Orthodox, among whom priests, monks, nuns, etc.. Not 10 like atheist apologists . My whole city of Orthodox and other cities, the country(media is full of this gay monks on tape, full of priests who open the book, etc). It's not just a bunch like those guys but a lot. And you know them too, but you are in denial, the whole "yea but not all are like that" fallacy, of which i spoke a few mins ago scroll back and see it.

Wow, I wonder how one could know that many people. Even the number of people I know could barely even reach half a thousand  :-\

But, I've seen a lot of online Atheists bashing religion and trying to emulate the ignorant attitudes of Dawkins and Harris. Yet, I've seen Atheists who renounce such stances. It's the same with your experience. All you are seeing is what you want to see rather than the whole picture. You only see the dirty side of the coin rather than the clean side of it. Every major institution is bound to contain the filth you mentioned. Heck, I'm no fan of Patriarch Kirill to begin with but that doesn't give me the warrant to assume that all Russian Orthodox Christians are Putin lovers or that they agree with him to begin with.

Also, I know of Buddhist monks who live in luxury contrary to the Buddha's teachings and Middle Way. Or how about monks actually eating meat? I saw those things on the news and with my own eyes. Heck there's even pervert monks but that doesn't mean Buddhism is false or that all Buddhists are brainwashed hogs.

One recent mediatized case :

The "Social-filantropic" Saint Nicholas house in the Mitropola of Bucovina and Moldova is actually a hotel and a wedding place, where they charge big money and many mafiots had wedding there, on one rroma wedding where minors were being wed in the presence of Orthodox bishops and prelates.

You guys just haven't know the "faith" well enough :).

It's full of suchlike case at the level of Mitropolitans. As I was speaking of my bishop also , who happens to be a Metropolitan.

This Metropolitans run in big wealths, so do many priests.

There is also circulating a video with Patriarch Daniel having a convo with someone where he speaks of his new purchases house of a ridiculous price.

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Offline wgw

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Re: Why are miracles in the Orthodox Church so dim?
« Reply #137 on: May 16, 2015, 02:00:37 AM »
Well perhaps from the standpoint of Orthodox in America, corruption in the Romanian Church, if they are aware of it and believe it exists, is something lamentable, but it does not appear to be a visible or signifigant part of the experience of Orthodox in the US, or elsewhere in the diaspora.

But if what you're saying is true, it would worry me because I dont want Orthodoxy in Romania to become irrelevant, which it might if it has problems with corruption.  I would be inclined to attribute this corruption to the lingering presence of persons inflicted on the church by the former communist regime, which did seek to subvert the Church of Romania.