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Author Topic: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks  (Read 1218 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jetavan
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« on: November 19, 2012, 03:49:16 PM »

Bishops, priests and religious should wear the formal long robes of a cassock during most occasions when visiting Rome, a high-ranking Vatican official has said.

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's Secretariat of State, made the request for the formal dress in a letter released during last month's Synod of Bishops.
....
"The very example of those who, sealed with the episcopal dignity, are faithful to the daily use of the cassock proper to them, during office hours, becomes an explicit encouragement for all, including for the Episcopates and for those who visit the Roman Curia and Vatican City," Bertone writes.

The cassock is an ankle-length robe distinguished by a series of buttons down the front and a sash worn across the waist. While typically seen worn by bishops and cardinals, priests in many parts of the world are more often seen instead wearing button down shirts with clerical collars.
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 04:16:50 PM »

The 'Doxification of Rome has begun Wink
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 04:21:38 PM »

The 'Doxification of Rome has begun Wink

If the order was coming straight from the pope I would be tempted to shout spontaneous "AXIOS!"
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 04:47:14 PM »

The 'Doxification of Rome has begun Wink

If the order was coming straight from the pope I would be tempted to shout spontaneous "AXIOS!"


Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's Secretariat of State, made the request for the formal dress in a letter released during last month's Synod of Bishops.

It came at the bequest of Pope Benedict XVI, reports a posting at veteran Italian journalist Sandro Magister's site at the Italian newsmagazine l'Espresso.

Bertone's letter, first made public Monday but dated Oct. 15, asks bishops and cardinals "kindly to guarantee" the observance of a 1982 letter by Pope John Paul II on the matter.

That letter, written by the deceased pontiff to the then-vicar general for the diocese of Rome, asked that priests wear the more formal dress as a "distinguishing mark" which contributes to "the beauty of the priest in his external behavior."
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 04:47:37 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 07:25:09 PM »

The 'Doxification of Rome has begun Wink

What a shame.
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 07:30:02 PM »

The 'Doxification of Rome has begun Wink
More of a return to our own traditions.
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 07:33:27 PM »

The 'Doxification of Rome has begun Wink
More of a return to our own traditions.

Precisely Wink
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 08:54:40 PM »

The 'Doxification of Rome has begun Wink
More of a return to our own traditions.

Precisely Wink

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 08:56:32 PM »

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 09:10:21 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2012, 09:16:50 PM »

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Truth is subjunctive.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 09:18:40 PM »

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Truth is subjunctive.

That it were!
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 09:21:16 PM »

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.



Not everyone speaks the same kind of English y'know.
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orthonorm
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 09:29:37 PM »

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.



Not everyone speaks the same kind of English y'know.

Yeah, except that this use of the subjunctive is pretty much part of the Standard Language. If someone is a bit educated and literate in English, this would either be clear or seem perhaps a bit dated.

Sorry if you are not ESL. Didn't mean to offend.
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 09:34:40 PM »

Yeah, except that this use of the subjunctive is pretty much part of the Standard Language. If someone is a bit educated and literate in English, this would either be clear or seem perhaps a bit dated.

Sorry if you are not ESL. Didn't mean to offend.

No, I am ESL.  But that still doesn't change the fact that the use of English is different from place to place.  Even within the United States.  Though I've pretty much used English my entire life, though it is not my native language and not used as much in our daily life back where I come from.  But English is the second official language there and taught in all levels of school.  Plus there is good access to English language TV programming.  Growing up even the Japanese anime were translated locally to English instead of Filipino.  Only in more recent times has the foreign non-English shows been translated to Filipino instead of English.  And I do live in Canada now.
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 09:45:39 PM »

Yeah, except that this use of the subjunctive is pretty much part of the Standard Language. If someone is a bit educated and literate in English, this would either be clear or seem perhaps a bit dated.

Sorry if you are not ESL. Didn't mean to offend.

No, I am ESL.  But that still doesn't change the fact that the use of English is different from place to place.  Even within the United States.  Though I've pretty much used English my entire life, though it is not my native language and not used as much in our daily life back where I come from.  But English is the second official language there and taught in all levels of school.  Plus there is good access to English language TV programming.  Growing up even the Japanese anime were translated locally to English instead of Filipino.  Only in more recent times has the foreign non-English shows been translated to Filipino instead of English.  And I do live in Canada now.

OK, So I stand correct.

Thanks.
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 10:11:24 PM »

Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 12:18:30 AM »

Years back, I was at a Greek festival during a very hot summer, and, as I do most of the time, I was in rasso (rather than the clergy shirt & suit).  They asked me to sit next to a senior priest from the 'Old School' (suit, plastic collar that goes all the way around, no beard, etc.).

He looked at me with disgust, then said, "Why do you wear that?"

I looked at him and said, "You are wearing a black wool suit, long-sleeve polyesther shirt with a thick collar, and an undershirt, right?  I'm wearing a cotton cassock with a t-shirt underneith... who's baking to death in this sun right now?"

He looked totally surprised, then nodded.  "I guess that's not a bad idea on a day like today."

We both laughed.  I don't insult him, because he served honorably for 50 years in a very different world.  But, times have changed, and I think the Church is not so afraid of looking 'foreign' anymore...


Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 12:23:33 AM »

Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
Why does Met. Phillip not allow the clergy to wear cassocks?
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 12:34:27 AM »

Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
Why does Met. Phillip not allow the clergy to wear cassocks?
He doesn't? I'm afraid I can't tell priestly garb apart at all, but I'm pretty sure I see my priest wearing a cassock-looking outfit after liturgy in coffee hour...
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 12:52:40 AM »

Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
Why does Met. Phillip not allow the clergy to wear cassocks?
He doesn't? I'm afraid I can't tell priestly garb apart at all, but I'm pretty sure I see my priest wearing a cassock-looking outfit after liturgy in coffee hour...
I thought Met Phillip had all the priests required to wear a collarino outside of the parish. Maybe I was wrong.
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 12:56:42 AM »

I thought Met Phillip had all the priests required to wear a collarino outside of the parish. Maybe I was wrong.

Oh, well I guess it is still in the parish. Nevermind then. Tongue
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2012, 02:26:28 AM »

Would that [mean that] all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.
Are you ESL?
Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.
Would that x!
Means something like:
I wish x were so.
The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.
Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Funny.  I just thought she left a couple of words out.
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2012, 02:45:46 AM »

Would that [mean that] all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.
Are you ESL?
Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.
Would that x!
Means something like:
I wish x were so.
The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.
Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Funny.  I just thought she left a couple of words out.

No, I did not leave out any words, and yes, I would have used an exclamation after that statement. Sorry. However, I have been busy making Christmas gifts for my parish and the nearby monastery, so I quickly posted and left to finish a project.

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