I offer help for learning Greek language

[Constantine XII]

Hello all. My native language is Greek and I want to help everyone who wants to learn this language. I also know English and a little Russian. Every day, I try to improve my Ancient Greek, Byzantine Greek and Russian.

If someone wants my help, don't hesitate to approach me (here or pm).

Thank you.

[arnI]

Hello - Thanks for such a kind offer of assistance.  In a related manner, I wish to learn to speak Our Father in Greek. I have ran across a number of videos and such on the web of Our Father in Greek, but the ones that I found are spoken at a normal pace. I find it difficult to learn the prayer from a recording at the normal spoken pace without pauses so I can easily stop the video player between portions. Could you suggest an audio or video of Our father in Greek that I may learn from?

[Cyrillic]

I can help with Ancient/Koine Greek as well.

[Orthodox11]

Hello - Thanks for such a kind offer of assistance.  In a related manner, I wish to learn to speak Our Father in Greek. I have ran across a number of videos and such on the web of Our Father in Greek, but the ones that I found are spoken at a normal pace. I find it difficult to learn the prayer from a recording at the normal spoken pace without pauses so I can easily stop the video player between portions. Could you suggest an audio or video of Our father in Greek that I may learn from?

I don't know about any slow recordings, but here's a phonetic transliteration which should help you when listening. I've included the accents so you know which syllables to stress.

Páter imón, o en tís ouranís
ayiasthíto to onomá sou
elthéto i vasilía sou
yenithíto to thelimá sou
ós en ouranó ke epi tis yís
ton árton imón ton epioúsion dhós imin símeron
ke áfes imín ta ofilímata imón
ós ke imís afiemén tis ofilétes imón
ke mí isenégis imás is pirasmón
allá ríse imás apó tou poniroú

[Constantine XII]

Dear arnI. I sent you pm.

[serb1389]

I can help with Ancient/Koine Greek as well.

Would you, or anyone else, be up for offering courses via OC.net?

[Cyrillic]

I can help with Ancient/Koine Greek as well.

Would you, or anyone else, be up for offering courses via OC.net?

Yes, no problem. But how would I do that?

[serb1389]

I can help with Ancient/Koine Greek as well.

Would you, or anyone else, be up for offering courses via OC.net?

Yes, no problem. But how would I do that?

Well being that you have the expertise, it would be really up to you. 

What I could see working is setting up short lessons like for example, start with the alphabet for beginners, have a thread on just basics.  Then have a thread on Conjugations, etc.  Then have a thread for more advanced people.  Something like that.  Do tests & quizes via PM. 

Thoughts? 

[Cyrillic]

I don't know if there's much interest for it.

[serb1389]

I don't know if there's much interest for it.

Let me spell it out for you. 

I.  AM.  INTERESTED. 

lol. 

[Cyrillic]

I see 

What do you know already?

[Maria]

I am also interested in learning Koine Greek, ecclesiastical Greek (Divine Liturgy), and/or modern Greek.

[serb1389]

I see 

What do you know already?

LOL!  that's the fun part.  Lots & little.  I can read very well, I know a fair amount of words & a sprinkling of grammar.  Never really took the time to quite MEMORIZE all of the constructs.  I tried, & I passed all my NT Greek exams (which wasn't hard btw) but I never really retained.

What I probably need is a remedial course in grammar, backed with a lot of vocab questions/quizes. 

Not sure where you'd like to start. 

[primuspilus]

I'd be interested in such things. I have a substantial break between classes, so I could really use a koine course to help me learn

PP

[Cyrillic]

I see 

What do you know already?

LOL!  that's the fun part.  Lots & little.  I can read very well, I know a fair amount of words & a sprinkling of grammar.  Never really took the time to quite MEMORIZE all of the constructs.  I tried, & I passed all my NT Greek exams (which wasn't hard btw) but I never really retained.

What I probably need is a remedial course in grammar, backed with a lot of vocab questions/quizes. 

Not sure where you'd like to start. 

Why not try to translate these few sentences literally and we'll analyse your translation together? Don't cheat by looking up the translations

Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ

and:

Προσευξάμενοι δὲ καὶ θεωρήσαντες ἀπῇμεν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ.

and:

Mήτε ἔργα μεγάλα τε καὶ θωμαστά, τὰ μὲν Ἕλλησι τὰ δὲ βαρβάροισι ἀποδεχθέντα, ἀκλεᾶ γένηται

[serb1389]

I see 

What do you know already?

LOL!  that's the fun part.  Lots & little.  I can read very well, I know a fair amount of words & a sprinkling of grammar.  Never really took the time to quite MEMORIZE all of the constructs.  I tried, & I passed all my NT Greek exams (which wasn't hard btw) but I never really retained.

What I probably need is a remedial course in grammar, backed with a lot of vocab questions/quizes. 

Not sure where you'd like to start. 

Why not try to translate these few sentences literally and we'll analyse your translation together? Don't cheat by looking up the translations

Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ

and:

Προσευξάμενοι δὲ καὶ θεωρήσαντες ἀπῇμεν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ.

and:

Mήτε ἔργα μεγάλα τε καὶ θωμαστά, τὰ μὲν Ἕλλησι τὰ δὲ βαρβάροισι ἀποδεχθέντα, ἀκλεᾶ γένηται

Your Greek font is rough! I had to put it into Arial Unicode...FYI

Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ
Descended yesterday from Pereus after ___ of Aristonos praying (in prayer)to God

Προσευξάμενοι δὲ καὶ θεωρήσαντες ἀπῇμεν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ.
We praying ones and ____ said towards the stars

Mήτε ἔργα μεγάλα τε καὶ θωμαστά, τὰ μὲν Ἕλλησι τὰ δὲ βαρβάροισι ἀποδεχθέντα, ἀκλεᾶ γένηται
___ work great and wonderful, the __ ____ those __ barbarized took away, ___ happens

[Cyrillic]

Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ
Descended yesterday from Pereus after ___ of Aristonos praying (in prayer)to God

Καταβαίνω means too descend. Κατέβην is aorist first person singular. Thus, I descended.

Χθὲς is yesterday, indeed.

Εἰς means to, ἀπό means 'from.

Mετὰ with an accusative means 'after', but with the genitive it means 'with'. Γλαύκωνος is genetive, Γλαύκωνα would be accusative. So 'with Glaukon'

Tοῦ Ἀρίστωνος literally means 'of Ariston'. But when this sort of thing is immediatly after another name, it means 'son of [name]'. So Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος means 'Glaukon, son of Ariston'.

προσευξόμενός is participium, thus it means something like 'praying to', but in this case 'to pray to' would be nicer.

τε means 'both ... and'. And refers to what follows in the next line (he went to watch some show as well)

Tῇ θεῷ can't mean 'to God'. Tῇ is a feminine article. Thus, it means 'to the godess'.

Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ thus means 'Yesterday I descended to Piraeus with Glaukon, son of Ariston, to pray to the godess'

This is the first line of Plato's Politeia, btw.

Προσευξάμενοι δὲ καὶ θεωρήσαντες ἀπῇμεν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ.
We praying ones and ____ said towards the stars

Προσευξάμενοι is participium plural aorist, which we can use the english pluperfect for. Thus, "Having prayed"

Δὲ means and. This little word is very often used.

Θεωρήσαντες comes from θεάομαι (to see), ιn which the word theatre can be recognised, which makes it easier to remember. It is participium plural aorist, which we can use the english pluperfect for. Thus, "Having watched"

ἀπῇμεν doesn't come from φημί (to say), but from ἀπό (which is not necessary to translate in this sentence) and ερχομαι (to go). It is imperfectum, so "we went" would be the correct translation.

πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ means 'to the city', ἄστρον means star, ἄστυ  means city.

Προσευξάμενοι δὲ καὶ θεωρήσαντες ἀπῇμεν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ means:
Having prayed and having watched we went to the city.

This too is from the first part of the Politeia, btw.


Mήτε ἔργα μεγάλα τε καὶ θωμαστά, τὰ μὲν Ἕλλησι τὰ δὲ βαρβάροισι ἀποδεχθέντα, ἀκλεᾶ γένηται
___ work great and wonderful, the __ ____ those __ barbarized took away, ___ happens

Mήτε is Ionic for Mήδε. Μή usually means 'not'. Δὲ means and. So 'and not'. We'll have to add 'so that' to make it easier to read.

ἔργα μεγάλα is plural. ἔργον is singular.  It can be translated as works, but deeds would be better here.

τε καὶ means 'and'

θωμαστά means 'wonderful' and it congruates with ἔργα μεγάλα. So you get 'great and wonderful works'

τὰ μὲν... τὰ δὲ means 'some....others'

ἀποδεχθέντα is passive of ἀποδείκνυμι (note the θ) and it is aorist. ἀποδείκνυμι here means "to accomplish".

Ἕλλησι and βαρβάροισι is dative plural. In Latin the ablative would be used. It means "by the Greeks" and "by the barbarians". This is a very common contruction in Greek.

ἀκλεᾶ means 'without fame'.

γένηται can mean 'happens', but here it means 'to become'. Like in 'Genesis'. It comes from γίγνομαι.

Mήτε ἔργα μεγάλα τε καὶ θωμαστά, τὰ μὲν Ἕλλησι τὰ δὲ βαρβάροισι ἀποδεχθέντα, ἀκλεᾶ γένηται thus means:
And [so that] not the great and wonderful deeds, some accomplished by Greeks, others by Barbarians, become fameless.

This sentence is from Herodotus' introduction to his Histories.

[Cyrillic]

I think that the knowledge of declensions and tenses is lacking a little. We should do that.

[serb1389]

I think that the knowledge of declensions and tenses is lacking a little. We should do that.

Ι agree.  I could have told you that things were aorist, but not the mood & etc.  (i barely remember what mood even means in grammar!) 

The other hard part for me is translating it correctly into english.  I get the general gist of it, but have a hard time putting it into writing. 

Next steps? 

[Apostolos]

Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ
Descended yesterday from Pereus after ___ of Aristonos praying (in prayer)to God

Καταβαίνω means too descend. Κατέβην is aorist first person singular. Thus, I descended.

In Modern Greek it's κατεβαίνω (pron. kah-teh-VEH-noh) -the augment -ε used to form the past tenses in Ancient Greek, for some peculiar reason in Modern Greek appears in all tenses- it means to descend, and can be also used to express move from the N to the S, i.e. we still say "κατέβηκα στον Πειραιά" (I descended to Piraeus) when going to the harbour from Athens (which is to the N of Piraeus); when I'm going to my hometown, Volos which is in Thessaly (to the N of Athens), I say "ανεβαίνω στον Βόλο" (I ascend to Volos).
The ancient aorist first person singular κατέβην, has become κατέβηκα in Modern Greek.

Χθὲς is yesterday, indeed.

Χθες is yesterday in MG too

Εἰς means to

The ancient "εἰς" in Modern Greek is στον (masc.), στην (fem.), στο (neut.) after the fusion of the preposition εἰς with the definite article in accusative: Ancient Greeκ εἰς τόν = Modern Greek στον (masc.), εἰς τὴν = στην (fem), εἰς τὸ = στο (neut). The omission of the unstressed initial vowel of ancient words, is a common linguistic phenomenon in Modern Greek: εἰς τὸν = εἰστον. Just like in Ancient Greek the στον, στην, στο is followed by the noun in the accusative. 

ἀπό means 'from

Από remains the same.

Mετὰ with an accusative means 'after', but with the genitive it means 'with'

Μετά + gen. is rarely used in the modern language nowadays, and sounds bookish. We prefer μαζί + preposition με (=with) + accus. The adverb μαζί (pron. mah-ZEE) comes from the Byzantine adverb μαζίον (=like a mass, together), from μᾶζα = mass and is translated in English as 'together'.
Mετά + accus. remains the same.   

Γλαύκωνος is genetive, Γλαύκωνα would be accusative

In Modern Greek the ancient third declension has not survived, the modern nouns belonging to the ancient Third declension are identical to the ancient Second declension, thus:
Νom. Ὁ Γλαύκων (ancient Third declension) = Ο Γλαύκωνας (Modern Greek)
Gen. Τοῦ Γλαύκωνος (ancient) = Tου Γλαύκωνα (modern)
Dat. Τῷ Γλαύκωνι (ancient) = The dative in Modern Greek has not survived it has been replaced by either the genitive or the accusative (depending on context).
Acc. Τόν Γλαύκωνα (ancient) = Τον Γλαύκωνα (modern)
Voc. Ὦ Γλαύκων! (ancient) = Ε Γλαύκωνα! (modern)

Tοῦ Ἀρίστωνος literally means 'of Ariston'. But when this sort of thing is immediatly after another name, it means 'son of [name]'. So Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος means 'Glaukon, son of Ariston'.

That's why we invented surnames. In Byzantine times, Γλαύκων τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος became Γλαύκων Ἀριστωνόπουλος (-πουλος from the Latin pullus, the young foal). In MG we usually render ancient patronymics, periphrastically, i.e. Γλαύκων τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος = Γλαύκωνας ο γιός του Αρίστωνα (=Glaukon, the son of Ariston). 

προσευξόμενός is participium, thus it means something like 'praying to', but in this case 'to pray to' would be nicer

In Modern Greek the general trend is to replace the ancient participle with the subjunctive, which is formed with the generic subordinator να (=that) + imperfective non-past aspect of the verb. Thus the phrase προσευξόμενος τῇ θεῷ becomes in Modern Greek, να (generic subordinator) + προσευχηθώ (imperfective non-past aspect of the verb) + στη θεά (accus. fem.) = to pray to the goddess.

Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ thus means 'Yesterday I descended to Piraeus with Glaukon, son of Ariston, to pray to the godess'

This is the first line of Plato's Politeia, btw

In Modern Greek, the above sentence is:
Κατέβηκα χθες στον Πειραιά μαζί με τον Γλαύκωνα το γιό του Αρίστωνα να (οr γιά να = in order to) προσευχηθώ στη θεά.

[Cyrillic]

I think that the knowledge of declensions and tenses is lacking a little. We should do that.

Ι agree.  I could have told you that things were aorist, but not the mood & etc.  (i barely remember what mood even means in grammar!) 

The other hard part for me is translating it correctly into english.  I get the general gist of it, but have a hard time putting it into writing. 

Next steps? 

I scanned two pages of my grammar book with declensions which are used for 99.99% of all nuons. Print them and learn them. I did it by saying them out loud a several times, try to find a rhythm. When you know these lists you can more easily translate greek.

[arnI]

Hello - Thanks for such a kind offer of assistance.  In a related manner, I wish to learn to speak Our Father in Greek. I have ran across a number of videos and such on the web of Our Father in Greek, but the ones that I found are spoken at a normal pace. I find it difficult to learn the prayer from a recording at the normal spoken pace without pauses so I can easily stop the video player between portions. Could you suggest an audio or video of Our father in Greek that I may learn from?

I don't know about any slow recordings, but here's a phonetic transliteration which should help you when listening. I've included the accents so you know which syllables to stress.

Páter imón, o en tís ouranís
ayiasthíto to onomá sou
elthéto i vasilía sou
yenithíto to thelimá sou
ós en ouranó ke epi tis yís
ton árton imón ton epioúsion dhós imin símeron
ke áfes imín ta ofilímata imón
ós ke imís afiemén tis ofilétes imón
ke mí isenégis imás is pirasmón
allá ríse imás apó tou poniroú

The Lord's Prayer in Greek (Classical)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H1HVKklfJwk#!

Above is a video of the Our father is at a slower pace.

[Carolyn]

How do you say, "Pray for me" and "Pray for us" in Greek?  How are the two phrases pronounced in Greek?

[Cyrillic]

How do you say, "Pray for me" and "Pray for us" in Greek?  How are the two phrases pronounced in Greek?

This is Koine Greek and this is when adressing multiple persons:

Pray for me: Προσεύχεσθε περὶ μου - prosevchesthe peeri moo.

Pray for us: Προσεύχεσθε περὶ ἡμῶν - prosevchèsthe peeri imoon.

[Αριστοκλής]

Hello - Thanks for such a kind offer of assistance.  In a related manner, I wish to learn to speak Our Father in Greek. I have ran across a number of videos and such on the web of Our Father in Greek, but the ones that I found are spoken at a normal pace. I find it difficult to learn the prayer from a recording at the normal spoken pace without pauses so I can easily stop the video player between portions. Could you suggest an audio or video of Our father in Greek that I may learn from?

I don't know about any slow recordings, but here's a phonetic transliteration which should help you when listening. I've included the accents so you know which syllables to stress.

Páter imón, o en tís ouranís
ayiasthíto to onomá sou
elthéto i vasilía sou
yenithíto to thelimá sou
ós en ouranó ke epi tis yís
ton árton imón ton epioúsion dhós imin símeron
ke áfes imín ta ofilímata imón
ós ke imís afiemén tis ofilétes imón
ke mí isenégis imás is pirasmón
allá ríse imás apó tou poniroú

The Lord's Prayer in Greek (Classical)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H1HVKklfJwk#!

Above is a video of the Our father is at a slower pace.

Still washing my ears out from this reconstructed pronunciation scheme.

[orthonorm]

Hello - Thanks for such a kind offer of assistance.  In a related manner, I wish to learn to speak Our Father in Greek. I have ran across a number of videos and such on the web of Our Father in Greek, but the ones that I found are spoken at a normal pace. I find it difficult to learn the prayer from a recording at the normal spoken pace without pauses so I can easily stop the video player between portions. Could you suggest an audio or video of Our father in Greek that I may learn from?

I don't know about any slow recordings, but here's a phonetic transliteration which should help you when listening. I've included the accents so you know which syllables to stress.

Páter imón, o en tís ouranís
ayiasthíto to onomá sou
elthéto i vasilía sou
yenithíto to thelimá sou
ós en ouranó ke epi tis yís
ton árton imón ton epioúsion dhós imin símeron
ke áfes imín ta ofilímata imón
ós ke imís afiemén tis ofilétes imón
ke mí isenégis imás is pirasmón
allá ríse imás apó tou poniroú

The Lord's Prayer in Greek (Classical)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H1HVKklfJwk#!

Above is a video of the Our father is at a slower pace.

Still washing my ears out from this reconstructed pronunciation scheme.

It's all reconstructed.

Don't we have any real Greek philologists around here? I would think this place would have at least one. The eye rollable moments around here when people, especially Greeks, talk about the history of their language gets a bit tiring.

Anyway the best thing about the video was missed and you don't have to even watch the video to find it:

The Lord's Prayer in Greek (Classical), brought to you by The Center for Non Harming Ministries.

LOL!

[Cyrillic]

Still washing my ears out from this reconstructed pronunciation scheme.

The ἦτα is pronounced horribly.

[Αριστοκλής]

Still washing my ears out from this reconstructed pronunciation scheme.

The ἦτα is pronounced horribly.

These folks who insist on these schemes are so arbitrary. If they are going to butcher the pronunciation so badly why do they persist in using the admittedly new stress based form rather than the pitch-based? I have heard decent reconstructed attempts; this one is not among them.

[serb1389]

honestly, I don't think we've ever really had anyone who was a hard-coare philologist in Greek.  And the ones who knew a lot about greek language wern't the type who posted about it.  This is the first real substantive conversation we've had about this stuff that I can remember. 

[Apostolos]

How do you say, "Pray for me" and "Pray for us" in Greek?  How are the two phrases pronounced in Greek?

This is Koine Greek and this is when adressing multiple persons:

Pray for me: Προσεύχεσθε περὶ μου - prosevchesthe peeri moo.

Pray for us: Προσεύχεσθε περὶ ἡμῶν - prosevchèsthe peeri imoon.

I'm afraid that περί is not the correct preposition, it'd sound more natural if ὑπέρ was used instead:
«Προσεύχου ὑπέρ ἐμοῦ» -proSEfchou (2nd person singular present tense imperative mood) iPEr eMOU - (you sing.) Pray for me
«Προσεύχεσθε ὑπέρ ἐμοῦ» -proSEfchesthe (2nd person plural present tense imperative mood) iPEr eMOU - (you pl.) Pray for me
«Προσεύχου ὑπέρ ἡμῶν» -proSEfchou (2nd person singular present tense imperative mood) iPEr iMOn - (you sing.) Pray for us
«Προσεύχεσθε ὑπέρ ἡμῶν» -proSEfchesthe (2nd person plural present tense imperative mood) iPEr iMOn - (you pl.) Pray for us
cf Matthew 5:44= "καλῶς ποιεῖτε τοῖς μισοῦσιν ὑμᾶς καὶ προσεύχεσθε ὑπὲρ τῶν ἐπηρεαζόντων ὑμᾶς καὶ διωκόντων ὑμᾶς"

In Modern Greek it becomes:
«Προσευχήσου γιά μένα/μας» -prosefCHIsou (2nd person singular present tense imperative mood) ya mena/mas - (you sing.) Pray for me/us
«Προσευχηθείτε γιά μένα/μας» -prosefchiTHIte (2nd person plural present tense imperative mood) ya mena/mas - (you pl.) Pray for me/us

[Cyrillic]

1 Thessalonians 5:25 and some other NT passages has περὶ. "Ἀδελφοί, προσεύχεσθε [καὶ] περὶ ἡμῶν."

[Apostolos]

1 Thessalonians 5:25 and some other NT passages has περὶ . "Ἀδελφοί, προσεύχεσθε [καὶ] περὶ ἡμῶν."

Sure, but,
Verb denoting impulse or motive + περί = about
Verb denoting impulse or motive + υπέρ = on behalf of
Depends on context

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