OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 21, 2014, 04:44:44 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Soul in Brain Quantic Dynamics?  (Read 2835 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Fabio Leite
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 3,382



WWW
« on: November 02, 2012, 11:09:49 AM »

I always believed in a certain "materiality" of the soul, and that its interaction with the body did not occur in molecular scale, but probably in quantic phenomena. Now, serious scientists (no pseudo-scientifc New Age stuff) are trying to put together a quantic study of the soul in the brain.

Near-death experiences occur when the soul leaves the nervous system and enters the universe, claim two quantum physics experts


Thus it is held that our souls are more than the interaction of neurons in the brain. They are in fact constructed from the very fabric of the universe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2225190/Can-quantum-physics-explain-bizarre-experiences-patients-brought-brink-death.html?ITO=1490
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:12:38 AM by Fabio Leite » Logged

Many Energies, Three Persons, Two Natures, One God.
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 11:30:43 AM »

At first I thought this was a posting by Asteriktos.  Smiley

You might have beaten him to it.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2012, 04:17:44 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I always believed in a certain "materiality" of the soul, and that its interaction with the body did not occur in molecular scale, but probably in quantic phenomena. Now, serious scientists (no pseudo-scientifc New Age stuff) are trying to put together a quantic study of the soul in the brain.

Near-death experiences occur when the soul leaves the nervous system and enters the universe, claim two quantum physics experts


Thus it is held that our souls are more than the interaction of neurons in the brain. They are in fact constructed from the very fabric of the universe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2225190/Can-quantum-physics-explain-bizarre-experiences-patients-brought-brink-death.html?ITO=1490


While this is a more interesting approach than other scientific studies of existentialism, I would say it is still flawed in that it is looking for physically mechanical explanations of existence.  This seems to be asserting that the soul exists at some kind of mico-cosmic level, perhaps at the scale of subatomic particles like Gravitons, which are currently being explored to explain gravity.  Gravity might be a very mechanical force, dictated by the physical interaction of subatomic particles.  From the super brief abstract post of that article, it seems these scientists are suggesting that the soul seems to exist at this subatomic level, interacting with the neurochemicals of the brain.  I am not denying that their might in fact be this physical phenomon, but is it the soul or just a more microscopic examination of the human brain and its interaction with physical reality, albeit at a subatomic scale?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,674


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2012, 05:01:18 PM »

I must admit, I'm also very skeptical.  To me, the rational soul is of an untestable substance, like the angels.  Unless one can find the quantum essence of angels, I'm inclined to call baloney on this.

Our intelligence is binatured, of material brain, which has the capacity to hold the other nature of our intelligence, what the Scriptures call the Image of God.  As our brains are allowed to grow and become more complex, the Image also grows into the Likeness of God, and becomes more radiant.  When a person loses blood or life to the brain, the same wiring is there, but the body has no soul anymore.  That machinery, that "spiritual electricity" is no longer present.  A [poor] analogy would be a grid of electric wires, but no power running through it.  Or a hard drive with saved data, but shut down.

What quantum theories seem to do is form a more pantheistic existence, that when I die, I disintegrate and become one with the world, or that I mingle with "the One".  I think it's better to consider that this "soul" we have is most probably made untestable, but of course not as "untestable" as God.  For we can test out spirituality as grow closer to God. God reveals Himself to us so long as we continue in our spiritual exercises when seeking Him and being in His communion.  It is then that we know that the soul can be illumined, the flesh in turn may be filled with grace, and that we prove God exists by showing how He exists in our souls, not by quantum mechanics, but by unity of our soul with the divine.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 05:06:30 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I must admit, I'm also very skeptical.  To me, the rational soul is of an untestable substance, like the angels.  Unless one can find the quantum essence of angels, I'm inclined to call baloney on this.

Our intelligence is binatured, of material brain, which has the capacity to hold the other nature of our intelligence, what the Scriptures call the Image of God.  As our brains are allowed to grow and become more complex, the Image also grows into the Likeness of God, and becomes more radiant.  When a person loses blood or life to the brain, the same wiring is there, but the body has no soul anymore.  That machinery, that "spiritual electricity" is no longer present.  A [poor] analogy would be a grid of electric wires, but no power running through it.  Or a hard drive with saved data, but shut down.

What quantum theories seem to do is form a more pantheistic existence, that when I die, I disintegrate and become one with the world, or that I mingle with "the One".  I think it's better to consider that this "soul" we have is most probably made untestable, but of course not as "untestable" as God.  For we can test out spirituality as grow closer to God. God reveals Himself to us so long as we continue in our spiritual exercises when seeking Him and being in His communion.  It is then that we know that the soul can be illumined, the flesh in turn may be filled with grace, and that we prove God exists by showing how He exists in our souls, not by quantum mechanics, but by unity of our soul with the divine.

I would say that these scientists don't seem to be jumping into the Pantheism game, in fact, I'd be surprised if they even knew about the Latin debates about Pantheism or Orthodox discussions of Palamite theological implications existentially.  Rather, I gleamed from the article that these guys are just looking for a mechanism of interaction between the spirit and the body/physical cosmos. In your analogy of the angels, perhaps they are not trying to find the angels, so much as that junction where the angels interact with the physical universe. I would agree with you that the soul can't be quantified or even observed, but what these guys may be seeing in the laboratory setting is the interaction between an invisible/unknowable spiritual reality and its merger and conjunction into the the physicality of the world.  We know that Spirit interacts with Creation.  We know we are spiritual-physical beings, with a part of our existence being our souls, another part being our bodies.  Somehow, in all reality, our spiritual selves MUST be interacting with the physical universe, and this hypothesis might just be an observation or explanation of that process.  Can it ever actually identify the soul? Probably not.  Is it getting closer to an understanding of the interaction between the physical and spiritual? I would suggest that perhaps it is inching in that direction.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Fabio Leite
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 3,382



WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 05:36:02 PM »

That's exactly what I thought when I read the objection.

I am sure that at some point we will reach the "border" of materiality where it receives information directly from "mind". Maybe it will be a systematic statiscal pattern that would not be possible without intelligence. But different from angels, we are incarnated spirits, and we clearly can "control" synapses directing them to our decisions when we chose to move this and not that finger. Mechanical materialism cannot account for free-choice. That's why some materialists even claim that choice is a illusion. You "think" you decided to read this text, but it was as mechanical as a ball rolling downstairs. Yet one can ask: what is this, or who is this that is deceived?

Anyways, I would expect quantic fluctuations to not be random and move as directed from "outside".

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I must admit, I'm also very skeptical.  To me, the rational soul is of an untestable substance, like the angels.  Unless one can find the quantum essence of angels, I'm inclined to call baloney on this.

Our intelligence is binatured, of material brain, which has the capacity to hold the other nature of our intelligence, what the Scriptures call the Image of God.  As our brains are allowed to grow and become more complex, the Image also grows into the Likeness of God, and becomes more radiant.  When a person loses blood or life to the brain, the same wiring is there, but the body has no soul anymore.  That machinery, that "spiritual electricity" is no longer present.  A [poor] analogy would be a grid of electric wires, but no power running through it.  Or a hard drive with saved data, but shut down.

What quantum theories seem to do is form a more pantheistic existence, that when I die, I disintegrate and become one with the world, or that I mingle with "the One".  I think it's better to consider that this "soul" we have is most probably made untestable, but of course not as "untestable" as God.  For we can test out spirituality as grow closer to God. God reveals Himself to us so long as we continue in our spiritual exercises when seeking Him and being in His communion.  It is then that we know that the soul can be illumined, the flesh in turn may be filled with grace, and that we prove God exists by showing how He exists in our souls, not by quantum mechanics, but by unity of our soul with the divine.

I would say that these scientists don't seem to be jumping into the Pantheism game, in fact, I'd be surprised if they even knew about the Latin debates about Pantheism or Orthodox discussions of Palamite theological implications existentially.  Rather, I gleamed from the article that these guys are just looking for a mechanism of interaction between the spirit and the body/physical cosmos. In your analogy of the angels, perhaps they are not trying to find the angels, so much as that junction where the angels interact with the physical universe. I would agree with you that the soul can't be quantified or even observed, but what these guys may be seeing in the laboratory setting is the interaction between an invisible/unknowable spiritual reality and its merger and conjunction into the the physicality of the world.  We know that Spirit interacts with Creation.  We know we are spiritual-physical beings, with a part of our existence being our souls, another part being our bodies.  Somehow, in all reality, our spiritual selves MUST be interacting with the physical universe, and this hypothesis might just be an observation or explanation of that process.  Can it ever actually identify the soul? Probably not.  Is it getting closer to an understanding of the interaction between the physical and spiritual? I would suggest that perhaps it is inching in that direction.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

Many Energies, Three Persons, Two Natures, One God.
quietmorning
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,378


St. Photini


WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2012, 01:10:38 PM »

I always believed in a certain "materiality" of the soul, and that its interaction with the body did not occur in molecular scale, but probably in quantic phenomena. Now, serious scientists (no pseudo-scientifc New Age stuff) are trying to put together a quantic study of the soul in the brain.

Near-death experiences occur when the soul leaves the nervous system and enters the universe, claim two quantum physics experts


Thus it is held that our souls are more than the interaction of neurons in the brain. They are in fact constructed from the very fabric of the universe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2225190/Can-quantum-physics-explain-bizarre-experiences-patients-brought-brink-death.html?ITO=1490

Thank you for posting this, Fabio.  I sent it to my husband.  He watched it and said it is very interesting.  Hopefully it will open some dialogue between us.  The timing was PERFECT.
Logged

In His Mercy,
BethAnna
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.06 seconds with 36 queries.