Author Topic: What's In a Name?  (Read 1485 times)

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Offline Irish Melkite

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What's In a Name?
« on: December 18, 2004, 09:57:13 PM »
It seems to me that the term "eparchy" is very infrequently used these days in the formal titling of the canonical jurisdictions in most of the Orthodox Churches, both Eastern and Oriental.  Although one will see it used in documents, articles, etc., the formal name of the jurisdiction as publicly displayed on letterhead, publications, webpages, etc., invariably is styled as "diocese". 

Although this is most true in the US, it certainly applies elsewhere in the world as well.  In looking at some patriarchal websites recently, I was struck by the fact that the usage seemed to be global.

Does anyone have any thoughts on why this is so.  Is it a case of the Churches catering to commonly understood phraseology?  (Interestingly, many Eastern Catholic Churches tend to use "eparchy" to the exclusion of "diocese", although for a few usage seems to be mixed.)

Many years,

Neil
"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory

Offline Jakub

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2004, 11:23:37 PM »
Welcome and peace brother Neil.

james

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Jennifer

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2004, 12:24:31 AM »
Hi Neil.  BTW, have you guys been able to get into the byzcath forum since it was moved to the new server?  I can't get there anymore and don't know if it's my computer's problem or not. 

Offline Tony

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2004, 02:06:07 PM »
I can't get into byzcath forum either. I thought it was just my computer.

Hi Neil. BTW, have you guys been able to get into the byzcath forum since it was moved to the new server? I can't get there anymore and don't know if it's my computer's problem or not.

Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2004, 03:29:39 PM »
Hi gang,

Thanks for the welcome.

I've intended to register here for a while, knowing from lurking and the fact that Dustin and Phil were running it, that this forum was both interesting and tolerant - my only two criteria (but ones sadly missing from most Catholic and Orthodox sites  :( ).  With urging from my good friends, La Familia Felix and Bill/Ghazar and the blank screen at "home", I finally decided the time had come  :).
 
Byzcath's move to the new server seems to be experiencing some problems.  In one posting, during the brief on-line interval before it went dark again, John said that he hoped it would be accomplished by today.  I e-mailed him last night to ask how things were going, but haven't heard back as yet.  Will let you know as soon as I hear anything.

Many years,

Neil 
"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory

Offline Jakub

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2004, 10:00:19 PM »
Orthodoc,

I congratulate you on your poll, you got grit and I respect that.

james
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline CatholicEagle

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2004, 10:17:20 PM »
Orthodoc,

I congratulate you on your poll, you got grit and I respect that.

james
?????

Offline Orthodoc

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Offline Anastasios

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2004, 11:55:02 PM »
In Roman times, either an eparchy comprised dioceses or a diocese was composed of several eparchies (I can't remember which) in the civil usage.  Different Churches seem to have begun to use the terms divergently. Perhaps someone can explain the history of that?

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Offline CatholicEagle

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2004, 12:00:25 AM »


http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=360833#post360833

Orthodoc
I prefer Roman Catholic because that emphasizes the "Romanitas"[ROmanness] heritage of the ROman/Latin Catholic Church

Offline Jennifer

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2004, 01:18:02 AM »
Interesting thread on the Catholic Answers board.  Man, I really hate triumphantist RCs! 

Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2004, 10:18:17 AM »
In Roman times, either an eparchy comprised dioceses or a diocese was composed of several eparchies (I can't remember which) in the civil usage. Different Churches seem to have begun to use the terms divergently. Perhaps someone can explain the history of that?

Dustin,

The Roman civil divisions were
  • Prefectures
  • Exachates
  • Dioceses
  • Epachies


The Church essentially used that same structure initially, with the exception that it initially ignored the prefecture level, only later adopting the additional level and re-naming it as Patriarchate.  Those who came to be termed Patriarchs were originally designated as Exarchs and their territory an Exarchate.  Metropolitans headed Dioceses; Bishops ruled Eparchies. 

After establishment of the Pentarchy, Exarchates remained as the jurisdictional unit of certain major Metropolitans - the distinction between an Exarch and the Metropolitan of a Diocese being chiefly in the import of the See over which one held sway.  Both had one or more Eparchies suffragn to it; the Exarchate didn't initially represent an intermediate jurisdictional level between a Patriarchate and its Dioceses.

Over time, "Exarch" came to be the designation for the head of an autocephalous Church, as the usage "Patriarch" was originally not intended to be employed for any other than those who constituted the Pentarchy.  (Around the same time, "Exarch" ceased to be employed by the Latin Church, where "Primate" was substituted as the usage to be applied to the pre-eminent hierarch of a national Church.)

At some point, "Archbishop" and "Metropolitan" each became popular as substitutes for "Exarch" in different Churches.  Diocese and Eparchy seemed to have merged into a single level, regardless of the styling applied to the presiding hierarch, with Metropolis being the usage of choice in one Church, Diocese in others, and Eparchy in still others (but, the latter fairly infrequently).  Each of the usage variations can be seen in various of the US Churches - with only the Ukrainians using Eparchy that I can think of.

Many years,

Neil
"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory

Offline Jakub

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2004, 01:13:03 PM »
Its not the name that gives/grants holiness/righteousness but the faith and works.

If two people are given the same clothing and happen to dress themselves in different order is that wrong ? Do they not reach the goal of dressing ?

james
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2004, 04:18:41 AM »
Its not the name that gives/grants holiness/righteousness but the faith and works.

If two people are given the same clothing and happen to dress themselves in different order is that wrong ? Do they not reach the goal of dressing ?

James,

I just now realized that your comment above is un-related to the subject of this thread (I hope  :-)

Quote
It seems to me that the term "eparchy" is very infrequently used these days in the formal titling of the canonical jurisdictions in most of the Orthodox Churches ...

...

Does anyone have any thoughts on why this is so ...

and relates, instead, to Orthodoc's thread over at Catholic Answers.

It really wasn't particularly bright of me :-[ to title this thread identically to his (regarding which styling is preferred for Catholics to describe themselves).

Many years,

Neil
« Last Edit: December 21, 2004, 04:23:23 AM by Irish Melkite »
"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory