Poll

Which of the OO Churches is most likely to join the EO Church in the foreseeable future?

Armenian Apostolic Church
1 (7.7%)
Coptic Church
3 (23.1%)
Ethiopian Tewahedo Church
0 (0%)
Eritrean Tewahedo Church
1 (7.7%)
Malankara Syrian Church (Indian Orthodox Church)
0 (0%)
Syriac Church
8 (61.5%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?  (Read 3438 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MichaelArchangelos

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
It's a shame that the EO and OO are divided. The OO are the closest group to Eastern Orthodoxy.

If one of the OO Churches were to break communion with the others, accept Chalcedon and the other Councils, and enter into full communion with the EOC, which one do you think it would be?

Also, considering such a thing did happen, would the former OO Church have to adopt the EO Divine Liturgy, or would they be allowed to keep their own Liturgy?

Offline dzheremi

  • No longer posting here.
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,383
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2012, 12:31:04 AM »
How could they "return" to a church communion they were never a part of in the first place? The question of this poll is poorly phrased and deeply ahistorical.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,485
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2012, 12:32:29 AM »
I would say the Syriacs since there is already a very close relationship with the Church of Antioch. But I doubt that such a thing would happen unilaterally.

As for them keeping their liturgies, they should absolutely do so. Their liturgies are ancient and venerable. Requiring them to adopt EO liturgy would guarantee the union would never happen.

Offline Ioannis Climacus

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 863
  • "There is no religion higher than TRUTH"
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2012, 12:35:58 AM »
How could they "return" to a church communion they were never a part of in the first place? The question of this poll is poorly phrased and deeply ahistorical.
The Copts and several others were once members of the Imperial Church, so it's not really "ahistorical".
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 12:37:00 AM by Ioannis Climacus »
Note : Many of my posts (especially the ones antedating late 2012) do not reflect charity, tact, or even views I presently hold. Please forgive me for any antagonism I have caused.

Offline dzheremi

  • No longer posting here.
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,383
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2012, 12:44:03 AM »
Yes it is, because they weren't "Oriental Orthodox" then, just like you guys weren't "Eastern Orthodox". So saying "when will OO return to the EO Church" makes no sense. There was no EO or OO church when we were still in communion. These aren't real things, just convenient shorthand to describe our respective positions regarding Chalcedon.

Offline Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,776
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 12:45:50 AM »
Also, considering such a thing did happen, would the former OO Church have to adopt the EO Divine Liturgy, or would they be allowed to keep their own Liturgy?

They can keep their liturgies, but they would have to adopt EO iconography. That is a deal breaker.

Offline Ioannis Climacus

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 863
  • "There is no religion higher than TRUTH"
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 12:50:36 AM »
Yes it is, because they weren't "Oriental Orthodox" then, just like you guys weren't "Eastern Orthodox". So saying "when will OO return to the EO Church" makes no sense. There was no EO or OO church when we were still in communion. These aren't real things, just convenient shorthand to describe our respective positions regarding Chalcedon.
You are arguing semantics. The OP is using modern names to refer to entities of a historical nature. No different than using terms like 'Byzantine' to refer to the Eastern Empire, or 'Roman Catholic' to refer to the western church post-1054, or 'WW1' to describe what was once called the Great War.

Would you agree that the Copts were once members of the Imperial Church?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 12:55:57 AM by Ioannis Climacus »
Note : Many of my posts (especially the ones antedating late 2012) do not reflect charity, tact, or even views I presently hold. Please forgive me for any antagonism I have caused.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,381
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2012, 12:56:59 AM »
They can keep their liturgies, but they would have to adopt EO iconography. That is a deal breaker.
One the Copts sort out their iconography amongst themselves (they've been re-constructing their style for the past few decades, as I understand it) What would have to change?

I mean, it would be nice for Christ to be depicted with the Red/Blue, but we don't even do that in a lot of Theotokos and Child icons.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline dzheremi

  • No longer posting here.
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,383
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2012, 01:07:39 AM »
Ioannis,

Indeed, we were once one church. My point is that you can't return to something that doesn't exist. EO and OO as labels for distinct communions only exist so long as the division persists (that's the whole reason why they're used), and even then only for the benefit of outsiders, so no matter who would be 'returning' to who (a matter of perspective, anyway), the question doesn't work.

Offline Salpy

  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,385
  • New Martyrs of Libya pray for us!
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2012, 01:17:11 AM »
I'm thinking of changing the thread's title from "...most likely to return to the EO Church" to "...most likely to join the EO Church."

Would that make it historically less problematic?

Offline Salpy

  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,385
  • New Martyrs of Libya pray for us!
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2012, 01:19:12 AM »
Or perhaps the word "unite" should be used.

In any event, I don't think any OO Church would go it alone.  My understanding is that there is some sort of an agreement between the OO Churches to that effect.

Offline Stavro

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,331
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2012, 01:21:04 AM »
 
How could they "return" to a church communion they were never a part of in the first place? The question of this poll is poorly phrased and deeply ahistorical.
The Copts and several others were once members of the Imperial Church, so it's not really "ahistorical".

I personally pray for the return of the Emperor himself.

We can change the title of this topic to " when will they return to the Imperial Church".
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,381
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2012, 01:35:07 AM »
I personally pray for the return of the Emperor himself.
Jesus Christ?

(Orthodox forum is one of the only places I would have to clarify this  :police:)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:35:37 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Salpy

  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,385
  • New Martyrs of Libya pray for us!
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2012, 02:01:06 AM »
I'll go with "join."

Offline Cyrillic

  • Arbiter Elegantiarum
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,322
  • We must go back!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2012, 04:37:40 AM »
How could they "return" to a church communion they were never a part of in the first place? The question of this poll is poorly phrased and deeply ahistorical.
The Copts and several others were once members of the Imperial Church, so it's not really "ahistorical".

Which was the  "Imperial" Church under emperor Anastasios? Did the EO leave it then?

Thanks to this thread I won't take EO complaints about uniatism seriously anymore.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 04:39:55 AM by Cyrillic »
"Par ma foi! Il y a plus de quarante ans que je dis de la prose sans que j'en susse rien."
-Molière, The Middle-Class Gentleman.

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,445
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Bulgaria
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2012, 04:45:16 AM »
Thanks to this thread I won't take EO complaints about uniatism seriously anymore.

People shouldn't. It's a double-standard.

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2012, 07:26:13 AM »
If one of the OO Churches were to break communion with the others, accept Chalcedon and the other Councils, and enter into full communion with the EOC, which one do you think it would be?
I dont see that happen. But I can imagine more local full communions like in Antioch.

Offline Gorazd

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2012, 07:29:54 AM »
Also, considering such a thing did happen, would the former OO Church have to adopt the EO Divine Liturgy, or would they be allowed to keep their own Liturgy?

They can keep their liturgies, but they would have to adopt EO iconography. That is a deal breaker.
Which icons do you object to exactly?

Since the only OO church I am really familar with is Alexandria, I would think that both historical Coptic iconography and the currently popular neo-Coptic iconography of Isaac Fanous (btw, he was a student of EO icon theologian and iconographer Léonide Ouspensky) are completely orthodox. What is problematic though are Catholic/Italian style icons still seen in many Coptic Churches in Egypt.

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2012, 09:03:50 AM »
No "None of the above" option?
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline dhinuus

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 563
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2012, 11:16:21 AM »
It's a shame that the EO and OO are divided.
Agree 100%.
Which EO church is most likely to throw away the "Tome" issued by somone claiming infallability and (join/unite/return) to the faith of the first three ecumenical councils and the Christology of St. Cyril ?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 11:17:01 AM by dhinuus »
NULL

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,657
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2012, 11:23:49 AM »
No "None of the above" option?
Or an "Especially not the Ethiopians" option?
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2012, 11:24:24 AM »
It's a shame that the EO and OO are divided.
Agree 100%.
Which EO church is most likely to throw away the "Tome" issued by somone claiming infallability and (join/unite/return) to the faith of the first three ecumenical councils and the Christology of St. Cyril ?

Now, now, you are well aware there was no infallability issue in 451.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2012, 11:25:05 AM »
No "None of the above" option?
Or an "Especially not the Ethiopians" option?

Chuckle...yes.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Samn!

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 333
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2012, 11:40:08 AM »
I could imagine a scenario where the Armenians and Syriacs might be willing to join the EO, were it not for promises of solidarity with the Copts and the Ethiopians. The Armenians-- who in any case weren't in communion with the OO until after the 10th century-- have on occasion made noises of accepting the validity of Chalcedonian theology and the Syriacs have extremely warm relationships with both the Antiochian Orthodox and Rome, their laypeople in practice intercommuning with both. On the other hand, the Copts, as exemplified by the late Pope Shenouda and Anba Bishoy, often articulate a theology that is strikingly unacceptable to the EO, something that put a quick end to their last attempted dialog with Moscow. And well, yeah, the Ethiopians.....

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,445
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Bulgaria
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2012, 11:50:08 AM »
On the other hand, the Copts, as exemplified by the late Pope Shenouda and Anba Bishoy, often articulate a theology that is strikingly unacceptable to the EO, something that put a quick end to their last attempted dialog with Moscow.

What happened?

Offline Samn!

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 333
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2012, 12:03:41 PM »
Quote
What happened?


As I understand it, the dialogue in Moscow in 2005 was cut short and not continued after Anba Bishoy gave a paper that was very disappointing to the Russians. That said, I've never seen a copy of this paper, but having read his other theological statements this isn't exactly a surprise.

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,445
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Bulgaria
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2012, 12:08:06 PM »
Quote
What happened?


As I understand it, the dialogue in Moscow in 2005 was cut short and not continued after Anba Bishoy gave a paper that was very disappointing to the Russians. That said, I've never seen a copy of this paper, but having read his other theological statements this isn't exactly a surprise.

What HG has written? Was this the controversy about theosis or something else?

Offline Ioannis Climacus

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 863
  • "There is no religion higher than TRUTH"
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2012, 12:12:11 PM »
Thanks to this thread I won't take EO complaints about uniatism seriously anymore.
Why would the thoughts of a few people on an Internet board effect this?

Regardless, most complaints about so-called uniatism are ridiculous. Truth should never be put aside so as to avoid "sheep stealing". If what one believes is true (and salvific), then it is only logical that one should spread this truth. This includes proselytizing those that St. John of Damascus calls "monophysites" (note to the moderator : I am quoting St. John).
Note : Many of my posts (especially the ones antedating late 2012) do not reflect charity, tact, or even views I presently hold. Please forgive me for any antagonism I have caused.

Offline Samn!

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 333
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2012, 12:16:50 PM »
Quote
 Was this the controversy about theosis or something else?

I honestly don't know. In earlier dialogs he had made very hard-line statements about the unacceptability of EO councils without ever engaging with the content of those councils. In his Arabic writings available online, he shares Pope Shenouda's radically Islamified understanding of theosis and the Eucharist, which often involve Christological digressions that are beyond the pale for EO and arguably well outside the historical mainstream of OO thought.

Offline Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,776
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2012, 12:26:04 PM »
What would have to change?

No cartoons.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,286
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2012, 01:12:12 PM »
Patriarch Karekin once said the OOs should unite with us unanimously and together. He can't imagine any other solution.

This thread is pointless.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,381
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2012, 01:29:02 PM »
What would have to change?

No cartoons.


From what I've been told IRL by Copts, the super chibi/Walt disantine/flash art icons are an aberration, not the standard. That they are poor attempts at mimicking the style of a famous Neo Coptic iconographer.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2012, 01:56:25 PM »
This thread is pointless.

No argument there.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline sheenj

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,429
  • St. Gregorios of Parumala, pray for us...
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Indian/Malankara Orthodox Church
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2012, 03:15:11 PM »
Thanks to this thread I won't take EO complaints about uniatism seriously anymore.
Why would the thoughts of a few people on an Internet board effect this?

Regardless, most complaints about so-called uniatism are ridiculous. Truth should never be put aside so as to avoid "sheep stealing". If what one believes is true (and salvific), then it is only logical that one should spread this truth. This includes proselytizing those that St. John of Damascus calls "monophysites" (note to the moderator : I am quoting St. John).

The problem with St. John of Damascus is that he conflates various Non-Chalcedonian groups. He rightly condemns the works of John the Grammarian, who was a monophysite. Unfortunately, he uses the Grammarian's writings to unjustly condemn Saints Diascorus and Severus, who would have agreed with him concerning the Christology of John the Grammarian.

Offline Samn!

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 333
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2012, 04:18:43 PM »
Quote
who would have agreed with him concerning the Christology of John the Grammarian.

I'm not so sure about this. There is indeed a significant disagreement between the theology of Philoponus and Severus, but it would not make a difference as to which of the two is more or less 'monophysite'. Severus and Philoponus both believe in a personal nature. For Severus, however, there is a profound difference between the language used to talk about the Trinity and that used to talk about the Incarnation, such that one cannot speak of the persons of the Trinity as having personal natures. Philoponus, on the other hand, did not make this distinction, and so in considering the persons of the Trinity to each have their own nature, which caused posterity to judge him to be a tritheist. In any case, from the Damascene's perspective, what makes both these figures monophysites is that they hold to the notion of a personal nature.

For a good study of how Philoponus' thought relates to and develops Severus and contemporary anti-Chalcedonian trends, see Ewe Michael Lang's book John Philoponus and the Controversies over Chalcedon in the Sixth Century: A Study and Translation of the Arbiter.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 04:21:40 PM by Samn! »

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2012, 04:26:41 PM »
I would say the Syriacs since there is already a very close relationship with the Church of Antioch. But I doubt that such a thing would happen unilaterally.

As for them keeping their liturgies, they should absolutely do so. Their liturgies are ancient and venerable. Requiring them to adopt EO liturgy would guarantee the union would never happen.
The Syriacs *are* the Church of Antioch.

May be we should create a separate thread called "Which EO Church do you think is most likely to join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?"
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline OrthoNoob

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,157
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2012, 05:02:39 PM »
I would say the Syriacs since there is already a very close relationship with the Church of Antioch. But I doubt that such a thing would happen unilaterally.

As for them keeping their liturgies, they should absolutely do so. Their liturgies are ancient and venerable. Requiring them to adopt EO liturgy would guarantee the union would never happen.
The Syriacs *are* the Church of Antioch.

May be we should create a separate thread called "Which EO Church do you think is most likely to join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?"

How about "Which band of Greek schismatics is most likely to renounce their Nestorianism and crawl on their knees to kiss the feet of the Coptic Pope and beg to be admitted to Heaven?" ;)
http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2012, 05:07:20 PM »
I would say the Syriacs since there is already a very close relationship with the Church of Antioch. But I doubt that such a thing would happen unilaterally.

As for them keeping their liturgies, they should absolutely do so. Their liturgies are ancient and venerable. Requiring them to adopt EO liturgy would guarantee the union would never happen.
The Syriacs *are* the Church of Antioch.

May be we should create a separate thread called "Which EO Church do you think is most likely to join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?"

How about "Which band of Greek schismatics is most likely to renounce their Nestorianism and crawl on their knees to kiss the feet of the Coptic Pope and beg to be admitted to Heaven?" ;)
Sounds fine by me. ;)
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Cyrillic

  • Arbiter Elegantiarum
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,322
  • We must go back!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2012, 05:12:06 PM »
Am I the only one in this thread who likes Neo-Coptic icons?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 05:20:22 PM by Cyrillic »
"Par ma foi! Il y a plus de quarante ans que je dis de la prose sans que j'en susse rien."
-Molière, The Middle-Class Gentleman.

Offline Father Peter

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,671
    • British Orthodox Church
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2012, 05:21:09 PM »
My own little church has 4 large neo-coptic icons of the highest quality and I also have an icon of St Severus at home by the same hand.
Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,967
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2012, 05:23:45 PM »
Am I the only one in this thread who likes Neo-Coptic icons?
not the only one now ;D
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2012, 05:24:23 PM »
Am I the only one in this thread who likes Neo-Coptic icons?
Nope. ;)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 05:24:32 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,967
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2012, 05:25:32 PM »
If one of the OO Churches were to break communion with the others, accept Chalcedon and the other Councils, and enter into full communion with the EOC, which one do you think it would be?
I dont see that happen. But I can imagine more local full communions like in Antioch.
Antioch is going to be the first to be re-united.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,967
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2012, 05:26:51 PM »
I would say the Syriacs since there is already a very close relationship with the Church of Antioch. But I doubt that such a thing would happen unilaterally.

As for them keeping their liturgies, they should absolutely do so. Their liturgies are ancient and venerable. Requiring them to adopt EO liturgy would guarantee the union would never happen.
The Syriacs *are* the Church of Antioch.

May be we should create a separate thread called "Which EO Church do you think is most likely to join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?"
The Syriac OO Patriarch was never in Antioch.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Which OO Church do you think is most likely to join the EO Church?
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2012, 05:27:53 PM »
I would say the Syriacs since there is already a very close relationship with the Church of Antioch. But I doubt that such a thing would happen unilaterally.

As for them keeping their liturgies, they should absolutely do so. Their liturgies are ancient and venerable. Requiring them to adopt EO liturgy would guarantee the union would never happen.
The Syriacs *are* the Church of Antioch.

May be we should create a separate thread called "Which EO Church do you think is most likely to join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?"
The Syriac OO Patriarch was never in Antioch.
HH Mar Ignatius Zaka is the rightful successor of Sts. Peter and Paul, the Apostles who established the Church of Antioch.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 05:32:19 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.