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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode 7: Set for 2015 Release  (Read 6794 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 30, 2012, 04:11:33 PM »


"Continuing its strategy of delivering exceptional creative content to audiences around the world, The Walt Disney Company has agreed to acquire Lucasfilm Ltd. in a stock and cash transaction. Lucasfilm is 100% owned by Lucasfilm Chairman and Founder, George Lucas. Under the terms of the agreement and based on the closing price of Disney stock on October 26, 2012, the transaction value is $4.05 billion, with Disney paying approximately half of the consideration in cash and issuing approximately 40 million shares at closing. The final consideration will be subject to customary post-closing balance sheet adjustments..."

Full article: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=69442

This news is appearing on normal news sites like abc news, so I think its legit. Not sure I even know what to say... Another Star Wars movie???
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2012, 04:15:01 PM »

I'm wondering if they'll use material from the Timothy Zahn books... In any case, I really have ceased to care about what Lucas and co. do to Star Wars. I enjoy the original trilogy but I think their greatness has been way overinflated.
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2012, 04:19:04 PM »


"Continuing its strategy of delivering exceptional creative content to audiences around the world, The Walt Disney Company has agreed to acquire Lucasfilm Ltd. in a stock and cash transaction. Lucasfilm is 100% owned by Lucasfilm Chairman and Founder, George Lucas. Under the terms of the agreement and based on the closing price of Disney stock on October 26, 2012, the transaction value is $4.05 billion, with Disney paying approximately half of the consideration in cash and issuing approximately 40 million shares at closing. The final consideration will be subject to customary post-closing balance sheet adjustments..."

Full article: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=69442

This news is appearing on normal news sites like abc news, so I think its legit. Not sure I even know what to say... Another Star Wars movie???

If true, that makes very little sense. Prequel to all of them? In between? Sequel?

The EU & canon is pretty locked down now, so there isn't too much they can do other than just use what has already been in books and comics.
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2012, 04:19:45 PM »

I'm wondering if they'll use material from the Timothy Zahn books... In any case, I really have ceased to care about what Lucas and co. do to Star Wars. I enjoy the original trilogy but I think their greatness has been way overinflated.

I think the first two were really good though the Ewoks kinda screwed the pooch.  Not going to get into the other three abortions.
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2012, 04:21:07 PM »

This probably also gives Disney a lot more rights to Indiana Jones.
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 04:23:25 PM »

I'm wondering if they'll use material from the Timothy Zahn books... In any case, I really have ceased to care about what Lucas and co. do to Star Wars. I enjoy the original trilogy but I think their greatness has been way overinflated.

I think the first two were really good though the Ewoks kinda screwed the pooch.  Not going to get into the other three abortions.
Yes, the prequels were just about the worst thing that ever happened to a movie ever. However, if Disney keeps Lucas at lest 50 feet away from the script of episode 7, at all times, this might turn out well.
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 04:24:19 PM »

This probably also gives Disney a lot more rights to Indiana Jones.
Hopefully. Because The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was another (as you stated) "abortion".
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 04:29:25 PM »

This probably also gives Disney a lot more rights to Indiana Jones.
Hopefully. Because The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was another (as you stated) "abortion".

I didn't state it was an abortion, I think it was vamrat. I really need to change my avatar because it confuses me too.

I liked the prequels, but Ep 1 & 2 weren't quite that good, I liked Ep. 3 though.

I hope they are just calling it Episode 7 as a preliminary title. Maybe they'll do a series around the KOTOR era or the later Legacy era.

___________________________________

They do need to keep Lucas at arms length, but they also need to hold strictly to the Star Wars canon, otherwise this will not work at all.
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 04:53:19 PM »

This probably also gives Disney a lot more rights to Indiana Jones.
Hopefully. Because The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was another (as you stated) "abortion".

I didn't state it was an abortion, I think it was vamrat. I really need to change my avatar because it confuses me too.

I liked the prequels, but Ep 1 & 2 weren't quite that good, I liked Ep. 3 though.

I hope they are just calling it Episode 7 as a preliminary title. Maybe they'll do a series around the KOTOR era or the later Legacy era.

___________________________________

They do need to keep Lucas at arms length, but they also need to hold strictly to the Star Wars canon, otherwise this will not work at all.

Agreed on all counts.  First - I was planning on changing mine at some point since we will never replace Fr. Ambrose no matter how many look like him, I just haven't decided on which Napoleonic cavalryman I will replace it with.
Second, I am a sucker for anything KOTOR so would definitely see it, especially if some random Sith decided to go all chopsaki on Gungans.  That would be awesome.
Third - George Luca should be kept in a gestation crate to come up with very general ideas and then left in the dark until the movie can be produced without his malevolent interference.
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2012, 05:29:53 PM »

I'm wondering if they'll use material from the Timothy Zahn books... In any case, I really have ceased to care about what Lucas and co. do to Star Wars. I enjoy the original trilogy but I think their greatness has been way overinflated.

I think the first two were really good though the Ewoks kinda screwed the pooch.  Not going to get into the other three abortions.
Yes, the prequels were just about the worst thing that ever happened to a movie ever. However, if Disney keeps Lucas at lest 50 feet away from the script of episode 7, at all times, this might turn out well.

No. Lucas.

Yes. Life is good.
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2012, 05:33:31 PM »

Lucas is a hack.
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2012, 05:35:49 PM »

Lucas is a hack.

Lucas had his time and place. It coincided with the lifespan of the original Atari VCS.
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2012, 05:37:54 PM »

What will they cover since about 50 (60?) years ABY is already pretty described?
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2012, 05:42:15 PM »

Would this cover the kids of Han and Leia, and also Luke's child by I forgot who?
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2012, 07:20:48 PM »

Would this cover the kids of Han and Leia, and also Luke's child by I forgot who?
Luke had a child with Mara Jade who was a sith turned Jedi.
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2012, 07:29:54 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.

It could easily be expanded into an adventure with the rest of the cast (pity they're all too old now, though not prohibitively). I've never gotten into the Expanded Universe stuff, so as far as I'm concerned it's not canon. I'd be up for an alternate storyline. While I haven't read much EU stuff, I'm not a fan of most concepts I've heard about.

I'm fine with Lucas writing the initial draft and giving creative input, but by Walt Disney's pencil, don't let that man direct it. It could be amazing. Empire was amazing.

My friends are excited that now we may finally see the original versions on Bluray. Although Disney has that notorious Vault, so they're as stingy about their films as Lucas is.
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2012, 08:18:55 PM »

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.

2 out of 3 actually happened...

Quote
I've never gotten into the Expanded Universe stuff, so as far as I'm concerned it's not canon. I'd be up for an alternate storyline.

So you are a Sola Pellicula type?

EU is canon. Lucas still keeps his eyes on major events.
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2012, 08:39:46 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.



And long before then, Lucas claimed to have a 9 episode arc in mind.
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2012, 08:45:05 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.



And long before then, Lucas claimed to have a 9 episode arc in mind.

Indeed.  I sincerely hope that man does not believe his own press on the history of the Star Wars storyline...
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2012, 08:49:27 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.



And long before then, Lucas claimed to have a 9 episode arc in mind.

Oh he definitely did. But he must have thought better of it.

I'll be seeing it regardless. Even if it was titled Jar Jar's Revenge I'd see it. Lol
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2012, 08:56:23 PM »

Fun Fact: Jar Jar Binks dad was so ashamed of how much of a failure his son was, that he tried to commit suicide, but failed in doing so.

He also sent his son out on suicide missions, in the hopes that his son would die


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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2012, 08:58:40 PM »

I can't wait for Star Wars on ice
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2012, 09:00:08 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.



And long before then, Lucas claimed to have a 9 episode arc in mind.

Oh he definitely did. But he must have thought better of it.

I'll be seeing it regardless. Even if it was titled Jar Jar's Revenge I'd see it. Lol
We star wars fans are like victims of domestic abuse. We always go back for more.
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2012, 09:03:45 PM »

I guess Disney really wanted a good Sci-Fi franchise, after John Carter bombed, even though I thought it was a fairly decent movie.
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2012, 09:23:57 PM »

I can't wait for Star Wars on ice

Puke, Luke's son contacts the Force Ghost of Yoda in Dagobah.

- What's the secret of the Force, Master Yoda?

- Follow your heart, you must!

- Follow my heart? What do you mean?

- Hmmm...Explain better I will. Some friends I need. Puggy, Laughty, Forcy!

(weird but funny animals of the swamp emerge)

(Funny voice) - Yes Master Yoda!

- Following the heart, this boy doesn't know.

(Puggy) - It's easy to follow your heart!
(Laughy) - Iac, iac! (melodically) Not for the Sith... (singing) it's starts like a twinkle...
Puke - A twinkle?
Forcy dancing around Puke - A Twinkle that grows in your heaaaaart... and the Force becomes strong in you! Not like in that old Daaaaarth! 'Coz the Force is strong in you!
Puke - In me?
(Everybody, including Yoda) - Yes! The Force is strong in this one, if he learns to follow his heart!
*musical number starts, the animals and plants of the swamp join in the choir*
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2012, 09:27:08 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.



And long before then, Lucas claimed to have a 9 episode arc in mind.

Oh he definitely did. But he must have thought better of it.

I'll be seeing it regardless. Even if it was titled Jar Jar's Revenge I'd see it. Lol

My dream is now to see an epic action adventure movie, where Jar Jar indeed gets his revenge.
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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2012, 09:32:14 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.



And long before then, Lucas claimed to have a 9 episode arc in mind.

Oh he definitely did. But he must have thought better of it.

I'll be seeing it regardless. Even if it was titled Jar Jar's Revenge I'd see it. Lol

My dream is now to see an epic action adventure movie, where Jar Jar indeed gets his revenge.

Revenge on whom?  George Lucas for making him suck?
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« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2012, 10:32:10 PM »

My concern is this: It's not Star Wars without the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning. It's just not.

In 1999 Lucas said he didn't want to do the sequel trilogy because Vader doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married, so there's nothing to make a movie about. The whole arc is the story of Anakin Skywalker.



And long before then, Lucas claimed to have a 9 episode arc in mind.

Oh he definitely did. But he must have thought better of it.

I'll be seeing it regardless. Even if it was titled Jar Jar's Revenge I'd see it. Lol

My dream is now to see an epic action adventure movie, where Jar Jar indeed gets his revenge.

Revenge on whom?  George Lucas for making him suck?

Does it really matter who?  I just want to hear "missa m goin to kill yousa for da"
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« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2012, 10:37:45 PM »

I hope they make it as awesome as episode 4 and they bring back Qui Gon and Jar Jar and focus on a Jedi vs. Jungan war!
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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2012, 11:34:31 PM »

I hope they make it as awesome as episode 4 and they bring back Qui Gon and Jar Jar and focus on a Jedi vs. Jungan war!

I wish they'd scrap the Episode VII idea and just do a Qui Gon biopic.
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« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2012, 11:35:35 PM »

I guess Disney really wanted a good Sci-Fi franchise, after John Carter bombed, even though I thought it was a fairly decent movie.


I liked it too. Not sure why it bombed.
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« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2012, 11:37:35 PM »

I'm still in shock. I was certain we were done with Star Wars for another fifteen to twenty years.
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« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2012, 11:38:52 PM »

Will we get to see the beautiful natalie portman some more? please say yes...
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« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2012, 11:56:11 PM »

I guess Disney really wanted a good Sci-Fi franchise, after John Carter bombed, even though I thought it was a fairly decent movie.

BY ISSUS!
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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2012, 12:05:38 AM »

Will we get to see the beautiful natalie portman some more? please say yes...

Padme died.
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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2012, 12:06:52 AM »

They made 3 clones of her, portman could play triplet clones in the new movie...
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2012, 12:25:36 AM »

They made 3 clones of her, portman could play triplet clones in the new movie...

And lo, vamrat's greatest pr0n idea just came into being...
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2012, 12:27:06 AM »

I hope they make it as awesome as episode 4 and they bring back Qui Gon and Jar Jar and focus on a Jedi vs. Jungan war!

I wish they'd scrap the Episode VII idea and just do a Qui Gon biopic.

Or maybe, perhaps, expand on the Anakin/Obi Wan relationship...you know, like they should have been doing in the three crappy videos they called prequels.



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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2012, 12:31:44 AM »

How about delve into how Anakin Skywalker came to be.  He had no father.  Was it Darth Sidious's mentor, the one who could manipulate midi chlorins (spelling)?
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« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2012, 12:32:50 AM »

They made 3 clones of her, portman could play triplet clones in the new movie...

They could have her play an adult Jaina Solo (Han & Leia's daughter).

Base the movie in the Legacy of the Force era. Have Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill return as their characters. The series is 40 years after ROTJ, so it wouldn't be a problem. Have the focus be on the "new generation" being brought up by the trio and the stories of Anakin, Jacen, Jaina & Ben. Since the original 3 actors are already pretty old now, and wouldn't be doing much in the way of action sequences (this could be fixed with CGI and computer models if needed) it wouldn't be a problem. You could get 4 up and coming actors (2 would have to continue with their characters) and actresses.

Just call the new series, "Star Wars: Legacy"
Episode 1 would be Legacy of the Force
Episode 2 would be Legacy of Vader
Episode 3 would be Legacy of the Jedi

The first would be focused on an introduction and catchup, the second would be on the turn of an important character to the dark side, the third would lead to the final "conclusion" and consequences of the previous 2.

It could set up animated series between Legacy & ROTJ, and movies taking place during and after legacy.

They could continue with movies after these are finished and in subsequent productions just have Ford, Fisher & Hamill do short cameos or voice-over work, with the majority of the action focusing on their children.

The downside is they'd have to do a lot of catchup explaining the absence of Chewbacca, Mara Jade (Luke's wife) and important planets in the universe.
The other downside is 2 out of those 4 actors wouldn't be able to continue with their characters, and the series is also pretty dark at times, with a lot of pain and suffering going on.
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« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2012, 12:40:08 AM »

And include a presidential election since the emperor is no more . . . Tongue
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« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2012, 01:34:15 AM »

The prequels didn't have enough dry politics in them. We need an intense scene where C-3PO is called to testify before the Senate Committee on Protected Systems and Developing Species. (The ewoks are still reeling from their discovery that their god was just a robot made by some kid, and they are demanding billions of credits in developmental opportunity costs.)

Also, a friend of mine suggests the Jonas Bros. could play Luke, Han, and Leia. So we're safe on that front.
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« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2012, 02:08:47 AM »

Disney will ruin the whole thing. They are going to turn it into a family-comedy without the serious depth and philosophical adventure that the original trilogy takes you through.

EDIT: Bring back Mace Windu!!!! He was the coolest character in the whole Star Wars universe and the only Jedi that had Black swag and skills.
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« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2012, 02:18:11 AM »

James I think you are forgetting that Disney has alot of "adult" IPs. Look at the Marvel movies that have come out, and Disney owns Marvel.

Id love to see what Pixar could do with Star Wars.
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« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2012, 03:11:57 AM »

Doesn't Disney also own ESPN?
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« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2012, 03:17:34 AM »

Doesn't Disney also own ESPN?
Yep.

They own more IPs than people think.
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« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2012, 08:33:50 AM »

Leia is a Disney Princess now.

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« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2012, 08:37:45 AM »

Disney will ruin the whole thing. They are going to turn it into a family-comedy without the serious depth and philosophical adventure that the original trilogy takes you through.

The philosophy, such as it is, was more of a device to drive the adventure. I don't think of Star Wars as philosophical.

Besides, midichlorians are now canon so the philosophy is just so much hot air. Oh George, not everything has to have a scientific explanation.
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« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2012, 09:04:35 AM »

Well, they could use Episode 7 to fix several of the problems of the prequel. Midchlorians being one of them. The excessive materialism of the era of Clone Wars could be one of the things clouding the vision of the Jedis, while the more spiritualized approach Yoda and Obi-Wan later acquired and passed on to Luke is the "new" way, and one that prevents the kind of blindness they previously had at least.
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« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2012, 09:24:53 AM »

I can only wince as now this is going to go one of two ways:

1. Disney owns marvel comics now as well, and the Avengers rocked my socks.....hopefully Star Wars will too once again.

2. Starring Justin Beiber as Luke Skywalker, Co-starring Miranda Cogsgrove as Princess Leia, and Zach Galifianakis as Chewbacca..........


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« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2012, 09:50:07 AM »

Well, they could use Episode 7 to fix several of the problems of the prequel. Midchlorians being one of them. The excessive materialism of the era of Clone Wars could be one of the things clouding the vision of the Jedis, while the more spiritualized approach Yoda and Obi-Wan later acquired and passed on to Luke is the "new" way, and one that prevents the kind of blindness they previously had at least.
One can only hope.
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« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2012, 09:54:30 AM »

I've got a concept- bear with me on this....

J.J. Abrams Star Wars lens-flared filled reboot!
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« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2012, 10:56:42 AM »

I could see them setting it 20-30 years later and have Luke, Leia, and Han be secondary characters, played by the original actors, handing the series to the next generation (much like the III to IV gap). Not sure if Ford would go for it after the Indy IV epic fail, but who knows.

Mark Hamill in particular has had pretty much no career since Jedi, so I'm sure he'd like to be involved.
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« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2012, 11:01:40 AM »

I could see them setting it 20-30 years later and have Luke, Leia, and Han be secondary characters, played by the original actors, handing the series to the next generation (much like the III to IV gap). Not sure if Ford would go for it after the Indy IV epic fail, but who knows.

Mark Hamill in particular has had pretty much no career since Jedi, so I'm sure he'd like to be involved.

He was the voice of the Joker in the Batman Animated series and some games. Some consider *him* to be the best Joker of all.
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« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2012, 11:03:30 AM »

I could see them setting it 20-30 years later and have Luke, Leia, and Han be secondary characters, played by the original actors, handing the series to the next generation (much like the III to IV gap). Not sure if Ford would go for it after the Indy IV epic fail, but who knows.

Mark Hamill in particular has had pretty much no career since Jedi, so I'm sure he'd like to be involved.

He was the voice of the Joker in the Batman Animated series and some games. Some consider *him* to be the best Joker of all.
Was thinking the same thing.
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« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2012, 11:06:10 AM »

I really enjoyed his role as Christopher "Maverick" Blair in the Wing Commander games. He really goes against type as a farmer turned fighter pil- waitasecond....
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« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2012, 01:08:50 PM »

I'd say they should cover with the Yuuzhan Vong War, Second Galactic Civil War, the Fate of the Jedi series or something between the FotJ and Legacy comics (the last one least likely).
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« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2012, 01:14:27 PM »

I say Dark Empire series, then go into the Vong crisis. Good ole' violence in those two series.

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« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2012, 01:18:30 PM »

I say Dark Empire series

The original actors are too old...
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« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2012, 02:32:15 PM »

I say Dark Empire series

The original actors are too old...
Harrison Ford can never be tool old for anything! You take that back!!!!!  laugh laugh

PP
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« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2012, 03:20:02 PM »

I say Dark Empire series

The original actors are too old...
Harrison Ford can never be tool old for anything! You take that back!!!!!  laugh laugh

PP

While I admired JJ Abram's reboot of Star Trek, I hope they don't develop a 'parallel' universe or time paradox as a plot contrivance to get us to accept new actors. I would think that moving things up two generations and referring to the old heroes of III through VI in the past tense would solve that issue. Since the entire story arc follows the hero myth track for better or worse with parallels to human history - such as the Roman Empire, the Enlightenment etc.... I could see another 'dark movie coming in VII where the restoration of the Republic at the end of VI leads to some sort of perversion of its goals as in the aftermath of the French or Russian revolutions with a new cast of rebels fighting again to regain freedom.  Something like that...all of this genre of film seems to follow that path so this is not a stretch. I think that the core audience of those who followed the novels and such will be disappointed but they won't reflect the bulk of the mass market Disney will seek to attract. So the next movie won't be a moody 'indie' film with a dark edge..... I just hope they are better constructed than Lucas' reboot in 1 through III and with better acting in the lead roles. He kept killing off the good actors for the most part....
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« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2012, 04:00:08 PM »

Am I the only one that didnt hate/enjoy I-III?

I liked the originals a lot better, of course, but the first three were good movies, at worst, in their own right.
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« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2012, 04:02:24 PM »

Am I the only one that didnt hate/enjoy I-III?

I liked the originals a lot better, of course, but the first three were good movies, at worst, in their own right.

I didn't hate them - they were entertaining - they just could have been better? My son had a bootleg remix that was floating around the internet with the 'best' parts of the three mixed into one, coherent movie. They did tell a good story that way...
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« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2012, 09:15:57 PM »

I actually enjoyed episode III quite a bit, particularly for its grand guignol aspect. But I wouldn't say it's a good movie.
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« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2012, 09:51:16 PM »

Am I the only one that didnt hate/enjoy I-III?

I liked the originals a lot better, of course, but the first three were good movies, at worst, in their own right.

I rather enjoyed episodes I-III.
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« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2012, 09:51:42 PM »

I'd say they should cover with the Yuuzhan Vong War, Second Galactic Civil War, the Fate of the Jedi series or something between the FotJ and Legacy comics (the last one least likely).

A movie of the Yuuzhan Vong War would be awesome.
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« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2012, 10:07:20 PM »

Just read that representatives said the new movie will not be based on anything from the Extended Universe, but a completely new story.
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« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2012, 10:23:05 PM »

Just read that representatives said the new movie will not be based on anything from the Extended Universe, but a completely new story.

Anathema!
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« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2012, 10:25:01 PM »

Just read that representatives said the new movie will not be based on anything from the Extended Universe, but a completely new story.
Well then that must mean a completely different timeline, because everything else is locked down.
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« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2012, 10:26:44 PM »

A Star Wars reboot?

I'm all for it.

new timeline too? May God grant it.
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« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2012, 10:36:02 PM »

The Future of Star Wars Movies - Interview with George Lucas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyqlTi7lkhY

Disney's CEO on the Acquisition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIkqX5fG_tA
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« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2012, 12:01:25 AM »

Just read that representatives said the new movie will not be based on anything from the Extended Universe, but a completely new story.
Well then that must mean a completely different timeline, because everything else is locked down.

Or it could take place in an as-yet unrevealed planet, or "not be based on anything," might not mean literally unrelated to anything.
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« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2012, 12:12:54 AM »

Just read that representatives said the new movie will not be based on anything from the Extended Universe, but a completely new story.

So glad to hear this!
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« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2012, 01:14:17 AM »

Old republic movies might be cool.
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« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2012, 01:32:03 AM »

Just read that representatives said the new movie will not be based on anything from the Extended Universe, but a completely new story.
So glad to hear this!
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« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2012, 02:10:16 AM »

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
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« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2012, 09:30:28 AM »

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
I agree. One of my favorite Star Wars Story lines. I was extremely disappointed when KOTOR III was dropped. I REALLY waned to know what happens next.
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« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2012, 09:48:12 AM »

Well, because it's Episode VII, they probably will use Luke, Han and Leia or their descedants, only they will not follow the Extended Universe stories.

Right now, most likely, they are just throwing different ideas around to see how the public reacts.

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
I agree. One of my favorite Star Wars Story lines. I was extremely disappointed when KOTOR III was dropped. I REALLY waned to know what happens next.
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« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2012, 09:58:41 AM »

It will be an original story not seen in the Extended Universe

Quote
(...) you should know that there is an official canon concerning the Star Wars universe. Those stories cover the years after rebel victory (i.e., after Return of the Jedi). It's written in a series of books called the Thrawn Trilogy, by author Timothy Zahn.
(...)
So is that the basis for Episode 7 or not? I've heard directly from LucasFilm and other sources close to the picture, and they say: Definitely not.
"It's an original story," a LucasFilm source tells me.
In other words, forget the Star Wars novels. Forget the graphic novels. Forget everything you think you know about what happens to Luke Skywalker. According to my sources, Episode 7 will literally be nothing you've ever seen or read before from the Star Wars universe.
http://www.eonline.com/news/358685/star-wars-7-plot-will-be-an-original-story-says-lucasfilm-source

It will probably have Luke, Leia and Han.
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Mark Hamill: Oh my gosh, what a shock that was! I had no idea that George was going to sell to Disney until I read it online like everybody else. He did tell us last summer about wanting to go on and do [Episodes] VII, VIII, and IX, and that [newly appointed Lucasfilm president] Kathleen Kennedy would be doing them.
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/10/31/mark-hamill-star-wars-episode-vii-disney/
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« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2012, 11:08:04 AM »

I REALLY waned to know what happens next.

Try Star Wars: The Old Republic and Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan.
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« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2012, 12:22:45 PM »

They're going to ruin it. I just know it... Sad
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« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2012, 12:24:18 PM »

They're going to ruin it. I just know it... Sad

I believe the appropriate expression is:

I've got a baaad feeling about this.
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« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2012, 12:37:22 PM »

They're going to ruin it. I just know it... Sad

I believe the appropriate expression is:

I've got a baaad feeling about this.
Good one.
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« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2012, 01:16:17 PM »

I will say however, unlike the laughable ridiculousness that was Episodes 1,2,&3 Lucas will have NO say in script writing, thank goodness....George Lucas is probably the most successful terrible script writer of all time.

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« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2012, 01:16:38 PM »

They're going to ruin it. I just know it... Sad

You can't sink the Titanic any further.
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« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2012, 01:19:08 PM »

I hope they die (not literally, maybe as a company) if they completely ignore Star Wars canon and contradict it.
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« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2012, 01:24:19 PM »

They're going to ruin it. I just know it... Sad

You can't sink the Titanic any further.
Good point. But at least the Star Wars extended universe still has some pretty good stuff.
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« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2012, 01:47:46 PM »

I hope they die (not literally, maybe as a company) if they completely ignore Star Wars canon and contradict it.

From a business point of view it makes sense. Using the Extended Universe would put it in the "Book Adaptation" field. And the Extended Universe is no Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, nor a momentary fad like "50 Shades". As books, they don't seem to be good candidates to be sources of adaptations.

They will probably nod to the Extended Universe in some new character names, races and planets, some minor story arcs or scenes. But the storyline will be entirely different.
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« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2012, 01:53:18 PM »

I hope they die (not literally, maybe as a company) if they completely ignore Star Wars canon and contradict it.

From a business point of view it makes sense. Using the Extended Universe would put it in the "Book Adaptation" field. And the Extended Universe is no Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, nor a momentary fad like "50 Shades". As books, they don't seem to be good candidates to be sources of adaptations.

They will probably nod to the Extended Universe in some new character names, races and planets, some minor story arcs or scenes. But the storyline will be entirely different.


I would agree with Fabio on that - in that way Disney will nod appreciatively to the Extended Universe  aficionado fans while being able to pen a tale better suited for a mass market, global audience....

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« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2012, 02:44:55 PM »

Quote
Extended Universe  aficionado fan
<----------------- like this guy.
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« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2012, 02:51:15 PM »

Quote
Extended Universe  aficionado fan
<----------------- like this guy.

But admit it, you will still see the new flick and anticipate its release over the next three years or so! Just like folks have been waiting for the Hobbit and Star Trek 2 and the next Ironman flick...oh wait , I am in that group.......   Smiley
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« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2012, 02:56:20 PM »

I new class of Jedi is coming to the Galaxy...

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« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2012, 03:05:58 PM »

I new class of Jedi is coming to the Galaxy...



Revisionists - the Imperial March is NOT Byzantine or even Slavic in origin!
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« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2012, 04:01:43 PM »

I new class of Jedi is coming to the Galaxy...



Revisionists - the Imperial March is NOT Byzantine or even Slavic in origin!

Working title : 'Revenge of the Holy Synod' No truth to the rumor that it is being filmed on location in NE Ohio though.....  Wink
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« Reply #94 on: November 01, 2012, 04:39:10 PM »

I new class of Jedi is coming to the Galaxy...



Revisionists - the Imperial March is NOT Byzantine or even Slavic in origin!

Working title : 'Revenge of the Holy Synod' No truth to the rumor that it is being filmed on location in NE Ohio though.....  Wink

C'mon, they got blue light sabers, they are the good guys. Smiley
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« Reply #95 on: November 01, 2012, 04:46:54 PM »

I understand telling a better story bu they cannot simply revise the EU. Han and Leia do marry, Luke and Mara do marry and they have children, Chewy does die (eventually). They can't revise stuff like that.

If they plan on revising it I really hope there is enough protest that they scrap the plans completely.
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« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2012, 04:51:07 PM »

I understand telling a better story bu they cannot simply revise the EU. Han and Leia do marry, Luke and Mara do marry and they have children, Chewy does die (eventually). They can't revise stuff like that.

If they plan on revising it I really hope there is enough protest that they scrap the plans completely.

Actually, yeah, they can revise to their hearts' content- just like Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars is no longer canon. And you know, given the quality of a lot of the later EU material, this Star Wars fan is perfectly fine with that. Unlike the Decalogue, the EU is not writ in stone.
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« Reply #97 on: November 01, 2012, 04:53:40 PM »

I new class of Jedi is coming to the Galaxy...



Revisionists - the Imperial March is NOT Byzantine or even Slavic in origin!

Working title : 'Revenge of the Holy Synod' No truth to the rumor that it is being filmed on location in NE Ohio though.....  Wink

C'mon, they got blue light sabers, they are the good guys. Smiley

Like History, movie scripts depend on the perspective of their author as to who is hero and who is villain.
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« Reply #98 on: November 01, 2012, 05:08:28 PM »

If they suggest Boba Fett is really dead in these films (if they're after ROTJ) then Star Wars is dead to me.

They can't do away with all EU since some of it is in the films like Dash Rendar's ship, and other characters.

Like I said, if they go all out revisionist on the EU, then I hope they die for ruining Star Wars.
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« Reply #99 on: November 01, 2012, 05:22:40 PM »

I new class of Jedi is coming to the Galaxy...



Revisionists - the Imperial March is NOT Byzantine or even Slavic in origin!

Working title : 'Revenge of the Holy Synod' No truth to the rumor that it is being filmed on location in NE Ohio though.....  Wink

C'mon, they got blue light sabers, they are the good guys. Smiley

Like History, movie scripts depend on the perspective of their author as to who is hero and who is villain.

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« Reply #100 on: November 01, 2012, 08:32:38 PM »

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
I agree. One of my favorite Star Wars Story lines. I was extremely disappointed when KOTOR III was dropped. I REALLY waned to know what happens next.

Go to wookiepedia and read the article on Revan, it will fill you in on the details (whether or not the details are the same as they'd have been if we got KOTOR III, I've no clue).
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« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2012, 08:33:22 PM »

I new class of Jedi is coming to the Galaxy...



Would love to see this movie.
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« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2012, 08:37:13 PM »

If they suggest Boba Fett is really dead in these films (if they're after ROTJ) then Star Wars is dead to me.

They can't do away with all EU since some of it is in the films like Dash Rendar's ship, and other characters.

Like I said, if they go all out revisionist on the EU, then I hope they die for ruining Star Wars.

I'm not sure Lucas ever considered the EU to be canon anyway.

And Boba was dead since the sarlaac burped. Sorry. Wink
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« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2012, 08:43:11 PM »

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
I agree. One of my favorite Star Wars Story lines. I was extremely disappointed when KOTOR III was dropped. I REALLY waned to know what happens next.

Go to wookiepedia and read the article on Revan, it will fill you in on the details (whether or not the details are the same as they'd have been if we got KOTOR III, I've no clue).

What happened to Revan is in the game Star Wars The Old Republic. They did an excellent job with that game EA is just a terrible company.
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« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2012, 08:45:13 PM »

If they suggest Boba Fett is really dead in these films (if they're after ROTJ) then Star Wars is dead to me.

They can't do away with all EU since some of it is in the films like Dash Rendar's ship, and other characters.

Like I said, if they go all out revisionist on the EU, then I hope they die for ruining Star Wars.

I'm not sure Lucas ever considered the EU to be canon anyway.

And Boba was dead since the sarlaac burped. Sorry. Wink

No he wasn't dead, it takes thousands of years for it to digest something and Boba's jetpack and other gear was still on him.
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« Reply #105 on: November 01, 2012, 08:50:54 PM »

Star Wars canon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon#
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« Reply #106 on: November 01, 2012, 09:08:16 PM »

If they suggest Boba Fett is really dead in these films (if they're after ROTJ) then Star Wars is dead to me.

They can't do away with all EU since some of it is in the films like Dash Rendar's ship, and other characters.

Like I said, if they go all out revisionist on the EU, then I hope they die for ruining Star Wars.

I'm not sure Lucas ever considered the EU to be canon anyway.

And Boba was dead since the sarlaac burped. Sorry. Wink

No he wasn't dead, it takes thousands of years for it to digest something

But it doesn't take thousands of years for someone to suffocate while trapped inside a monster's digestive system.

Who cares. Boba Fett is more interesting, the less you hear about him. Leave him in the ground.

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« Reply #107 on: November 01, 2012, 09:17:36 PM »

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
I agree. One of my favorite Star Wars Story lines. I was extremely disappointed when KOTOR III was dropped. I REALLY waned to know what happens next.

Go to wookiepedia and read the article on Revan, it will fill you in on the details (whether or not the details are the same as they'd have been if we got KOTOR III, I've no clue).

What happened to Revan is in the game Star Wars The Old Republic. They did an excellent job with that game EA is just a terrible company.

My bro played it and did all the Revan quests.

I wish they would have made SWTOR for a console. Whichever company has the guts and know-how to make an MMO for consoles first will make a killing.
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« Reply #108 on: November 01, 2012, 09:22:09 PM »

If they suggest Boba Fett is really dead in these films (if they're after ROTJ) then Star Wars is dead to me.

They can't do away with all EU since some of it is in the films like Dash Rendar's ship, and other characters.

Like I said, if they go all out revisionist on the EU, then I hope they die for ruining Star Wars.

I'm not sure Lucas ever considered the EU to be canon anyway.

And Boba was dead since the sarlaac burped. Sorry. Wink

No he wasn't dead, it takes thousands of years for it to digest something

But it doesn't take thousands of years for someone to suffocate while trapped inside a monster's digestive system.

Who cares. Boba Fett is more interesting, the less you hear about him. Leave him in the ground.



I hate so-called "fans" like you guys. You're part of the reason the franchise is getting ruined!

Disney can go suck it, and shove all of the money they make up their backside for all I care. If they throw out all the EU, it isn't Star Wars and it isn't worth jack.

Throwing out the EU = crapping on all the fans, and basically means that buying all those games, books, magazines and comic books was absolutely worthless.

Like I said, Disney and Lucasfilms can die if they want to toss out all the EU.
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« Reply #109 on: November 01, 2012, 09:25:16 PM »

Attempting to appease the fanboys who bought all the books, magazines, comic books, video games, lunch boxes, etc. is virtually a guarantee that the new movie would suck. What is needed are writers and directors who are not particularly in love with the Star Wars franchise and who have an idea of what makes good art and good space opera in general.

The new movie may very well suck but it won't be because it violates some sacred Star Wars canon.
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« Reply #110 on: November 01, 2012, 09:26:08 PM »

They can also die if they decide to make it some little kid friendly, happy-go-lucky, Sesame Street, Barney, Jar-Jar Binks PG crap. I've already had to put up with one of my favorite TV shows ruined because of stupid little kids and being PG, I'm not going to have my all-time favorite franchise ruined because of Disney and stupid little kids.
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« Reply #111 on: November 01, 2012, 09:27:36 PM »

Attempting to appease the fanboys who bought all the books, magazines, comic books, video games, lunch boxes, etc. is virtually a guarantee that the new movie would suck. What is needed are writers and directors who are not particularly in love with the Star Wars franchise and who have an idea of what makes good art and good space opera in general.

The new movie may very well suck but it won't be because it violates some sacred Star Wars canon.

You're not a Star Wars fan, clearly. The books, magazines, comic books and the rest of the Expanded Universe is absolutely amazing, and would make for a great film! (minus the stupid emperor clone thing)
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« Reply #112 on: November 01, 2012, 09:31:28 PM »


You're not a Star Wars fan, clearly.

Taking into account the cataclysmic, manic butthurt that Star Wars fans have been feeling in the last 15 years, I count this as a blessing.
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« Reply #113 on: November 01, 2012, 09:34:56 PM »


You're not a Star Wars fan, clearly.

Taking into account the cataclysmic, manic butthurt that Star Wars fans have been feeling in the last 15 years, I count this as a blessing.

Between George Lucas nearly screwing up the entire franchise by his "revisions" and additions; Sony Online totally screwing up one of the best games ever (SWG), EA Games nearly killing another great game (SWTOR), and many other things, we have been severely abused and should be respected more.

The real Star Wars fans out there are just being slapped around for our money and I'm sick and tired of people who are only nominal fans trying to completely screw up the entire franchise.

They need to put real fans, fans who know the EU to contribute to the films, and not nominal idiots who have only seen the films and nothing else.
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« Reply #114 on: November 01, 2012, 09:37:33 PM »

They can also die if they decide to make it some little kid friendly, happy-go-lucky, Sesame Street, Barney, Jar-Jar Binks PG crap. I've already had to put up with one of my favorite TV shows ruined because of stupid little kids and being PG, I'm not going to have my all-time favorite franchise ruined because of Disney and stupid little kids.

I'm sorry, sir, but Star Wars is all about "stupid little kids."

We had the Ewoks, and the Ewoks are awesome.
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« Reply #115 on: November 01, 2012, 09:40:20 PM »


They need to put real fans, fans who know the EU to contribute to the films, and not nominal idiots who have only seen the films and nothing else.

Or maybe, instead of getting someone who spends all his time reading Star Wars comic books and fan fiction, get someone who saw the films but spent more time reading Milton, Dante, Homer, etc. That is, if you want a movie that isn't really dumb.
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« Reply #116 on: November 01, 2012, 09:42:05 PM »

They can also die if they decide to make it some little kid friendly, happy-go-lucky, Sesame Street, Barney, Jar-Jar Binks PG crap. I've already had to put up with one of my favorite TV shows ruined because of stupid little kids and being PG, I'm not going to have my all-time favorite franchise ruined because of Disney and stupid little kids.

I'm sorry, sir, but Star Wars is all about "stupid little kids."

We had the Ewoks, and the Ewoks are awesome.

Actually it isn't, there are some nods like 3P0, R2, Ewoks & Gungans (the last one can go away, or die of genocide for all I care). The majority of it, especially Ep. 3 are gritty and much more adult.

The new movies should be more gritty, dark and, as I've said, tied (at least somewhat) into the Expanded Universe.

If they kill off Han, Luke, Leia or any other character (except Chewy, he can die like in the EU) then I'm finished with Star Wars.

If they refuse to make the movies like they should, then as I said, I hope the entire franchise collapses and Disney suffers tremendous financial loss so that future generations won't have to suffer from a screwed up, destroyed Star Wars series. It would be better for the whole thing to die now than for idiots to try to revise and scrap everything.
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« Reply #117 on: November 01, 2012, 09:52:32 PM »

They can also die if they decide to make it some little kid friendly, happy-go-lucky, Sesame Street, Barney, Jar-Jar Binks PG crap. I've already had to put up with one of my favorite TV shows ruined because of stupid little kids and being PG, I'm not going to have my all-time favorite franchise ruined because of Disney and stupid little kids.

I'm sorry, sir, but Star Wars is all about "stupid little kids."

We had the Ewoks, and the Ewoks are awesome.

Actually it isn't, there are some nods like 3P0, R2, Ewoks & Gungans (the last one can go away, or die of genocide for all I care). The majority of it, especially Ep. 3 are gritty and much more adult.

The new movies should be more gritty, dark and, as I've said, tied (at least somewhat) into the Expanded Universe.

If they kill off Han, Luke, Leia or any other character (except Chewy, he can die like in the EU) then I'm finished with Star Wars.

If they refuse to make the movies like they should, then as I said, I hope the entire franchise collapses and Disney suffers tremendous financial loss so that future generations won't have to suffer from a screwed up, destroyed Star Wars series. It would be better for the whole thing to die now than for idiots to try to revise and scrap everything.

Episodes II (maybe- if being "adult" means being a snoozefest until Yoda pulls his lightsaber), III, and Empire are not enough to constitute a "majority".

As for the new movies, I would REJOICE if they jettison the EU. If it wasn't written by Zahn, Anderson (and even then, he was pretty hit or miss), or Stackpole it really wasn't worth reading anyway.
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« Reply #118 on: November 01, 2012, 10:04:55 PM »

Lucas had called only Hamill and Fisher to discuss 7, 8 and 9. Even now, there are discussions if Harrison Ford should return since he is the oldest of the group and Indiana IV did not go that well. It seems that, as of now, we would go with an old experienced Luke, and a widowed Leia.

They can also die if they decide to make it some little kid friendly, happy-go-lucky, Sesame Street, Barney, Jar-Jar Binks PG crap. I've already had to put up with one of my favorite TV shows ruined because of stupid little kids and being PG, I'm not going to have my all-time favorite franchise ruined because of Disney and stupid little kids.

I'm sorry, sir, but Star Wars is all about "stupid little kids."

We had the Ewoks, and the Ewoks are awesome.

Actually it isn't, there are some nods like 3P0, R2, Ewoks & Gungans (the last one can go away, or die of genocide for all I care). The majority of it, especially Ep. 3 are gritty and much more adult.

The new movies should be more gritty, dark and, as I've said, tied (at least somewhat) into the Expanded Universe.

If they kill off Han, Luke, Leia or any other character (except Chewy, he can die like in the EU) then I'm finished with Star Wars.

If they refuse to make the movies like they should, then as I said, I hope the entire franchise collapses and Disney suffers tremendous financial loss so that future generations won't have to suffer from a screwed up, destroyed Star Wars series. It would be better for the whole thing to die now than for idiots to try to revise and scrap everything.
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« Reply #119 on: November 01, 2012, 10:06:14 PM »


They need to put real fans, fans who know the EU to contribute to the films, and not nominal idiots who have only seen the films and nothing else.

Or maybe, instead of getting someone who spends all his time reading Star Wars comic books and fan fiction, get someone who saw the films but spent more time reading Milton, Dante, Homer, etc. That is, if you want a movie that isn't really dumb.

Like I said, you aren't a Star Wars fan. The Expanded Universe is absolutely amazing, you've clearly never read the books or the comics, or played any of the games.

I'll tell you right now what I've read, and it is ALL amazing!

Books:
Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
Shadow Games
Star Wars Galaxies: The Ruins of Dantooine
Shadows of the Empire (absolutely amazing)
The Truce at Bakura
X-Wing: Wraith Squadron
Jedi Academy: Jedi Search
Jedi Academy: Dark Apprentice
Jedi Academy: Champions of the Force
The New Jedi Order: Vector Prime
The NJO: Dark Tide I: Onslaught
The NJO: Dark Tide II: Ruin
The NJO: Agents of Chaos I: Hero's Trial
The NJO: Agents of Chaos II: Jedi Eclipse
The NJO: Balance Point
The NJO: Recovery
The NJO: Edge of Victory I: Conquest
The NJO: Edge of Victory II: Rebirth
The NJO: Star by Star

Games:
Super Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
Super Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Star Wars: Obi-Wan
Star Wars: Dark Forces
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Outcast
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns
Star Wars Galaxies (from about 2004-2010)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II
Star Wars: The Old Republic (unsubbed a couple months ago)
Star Wars: Battlefront
Star Wars: Battlefront II
Star Wars: Empire at War
Star Wars: Empire at War, Forces of Corruption
Star Wars: Masters of Teras Kasi
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Star Wars: Republic Commando

I've also read a couple of the comics.

I've invested so much time and money into the franchise (not as much as hardcore fans have) that I'm not going to continue to invest in it if they scrap everything I've ever learned and done about it.
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« Reply #120 on: November 01, 2012, 10:07:26 PM »

Lucas had called only Hamill and Fisher to discuss 7, 8 and 9. Even now, there are discussions if Harrison Ford should return since he is the oldest of the group and Indiana IV did not go that well. It seems that, as of now, we would go with an old experienced Luke, and a widowed Leia.

They can also die if they decide to make it some little kid friendly, happy-go-lucky, Sesame Street, Barney, Jar-Jar Binks PG crap. I've already had to put up with one of my favorite TV shows ruined because of stupid little kids and being PG, I'm not going to have my all-time favorite franchise ruined because of Disney and stupid little kids.

I'm sorry, sir, but Star Wars is all about "stupid little kids."

We had the Ewoks, and the Ewoks are awesome.

Actually it isn't, there are some nods like 3P0, R2, Ewoks & Gungans (the last one can go away, or die of genocide for all I care). The majority of it, especially Ep. 3 are gritty and much more adult.

The new movies should be more gritty, dark and, as I've said, tied (at least somewhat) into the Expanded Universe.

If they kill off Han, Luke, Leia or any other character (except Chewy, he can die like in the EU) then I'm finished with Star Wars.

If they refuse to make the movies like they should, then as I said, I hope the entire franchise collapses and Disney suffers tremendous financial loss so that future generations won't have to suffer from a screwed up, destroyed Star Wars series. It would be better for the whole thing to die now than for idiots to try to revise and scrap everything.

Like I said, I will abandon the whole franchise if they kill off any of those three and totally ret-conn the EU post-ROTJ. Star Wars will be dead to me and I hope Disney fails.
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« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2012, 10:10:46 PM »


They need to put real fans, fans who know the EU to contribute to the films, and not nominal idiots who have only seen the films and nothing else.

Or maybe, instead of getting someone who spends all his time reading Star Wars comic books and fan fiction, get someone who saw the films but spent more time reading Milton, Dante, Homer, etc. That is, if you want a movie that isn't really dumb.

Like I said, you aren't a Star Wars fan. The Expanded Universe is absolutely amazing, you've clearly never read the books or the comics, or played any of the games.

I'll tell you right now what I've read, and it is ALL amazing!

Books:
Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
Shadow Games
Star Wars Galaxies: The Ruins of Dantooine
Shadows of the Empire (absolutely amazing)
The Truce at Bakura
X-Wing: Wraith Squadron
Jedi Academy: Jedi Search
Jedi Academy: Dark Apprentice
Jedi Academy: Champions of the Force
The New Jedi Order: Vector Prime
The NJO: Dark Tide I: Onslaught
The NJO: Dark Tide II: Ruin
The NJO: Agents of Chaos I: Hero's Trial
The NJO: Agents of Chaos II: Jedi Eclipse
The NJO: Balance Point
The NJO: Recovery
The NJO: Edge of Victory I: Conquest
The NJO: Edge of Victory II: Rebirth
The NJO: Star by Star

Games:
Super Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
Super Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Star Wars: Obi-Wan
Star Wars: Dark Forces
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Outcast
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns
Star Wars Galaxies (from about 2004-2010)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II
Star Wars: The Old Republic (unsubbed a couple months ago)
Star Wars: Battlefront
Star Wars: Battlefront II
Star Wars: Empire at War
Star Wars: Empire at War, Forces of Corruption
Star Wars: Masters of Teras Kasi
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Star Wars: Republic Commando

I've also read a couple of the comics.

I've invested so much time and money into the franchise (not as much as hardcore fans have) that I'm not going to continue to invest in it if they scrap everything I've ever learned and done about it.

You're really starting to scare me, dude.
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« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2012, 10:30:34 PM »

I won't buy into Star Wars if they kill those characters off, just like I refuse to buy into Modern Warfare or Call of Duty for killing main characters you invest so much time in. Just like I will refuse to invest into another popular game franchise, or like I haven't played or invested time into the Force Unleashed series, and just like I will refuse to buy into anymore Halo games if Master Chief dies. Same reason as to why I absolutely hate the Departed, The Skeleton Key, The Final Cut, The Matrix Series and any other movie that kills off the main character in the end.

Luke must get married, have children and at least live to a very old age before he dies. Anything less is worthless and I'm done with the series.

If they screw this up, I will get rid of all my games, movies, novels, comics & the toys from when I was a kid. They are worthless to me.
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« Reply #123 on: November 01, 2012, 10:36:51 PM »

In a bar in Lapa, the bohemian district of Rio de Janeiro, we learn that all the galaxy likes samba and cachaça.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsKG8GDXD0I

Foram-se meus vinte anos de idade
Já vai muito longe a minha mocidade
Sinto uma lágrima rolar sobre meu rosto
É tão grande o meu desgosto

Sei que estou
No último degrau da vida, meu amor
Já estou envelhecido, acabado
Por isso muito eu tenho chorado
Eu não posso esquecer o meu passado

Gone are my twenties
Very far is the time of my youth
I feel a tear rolling down my face
So great is my misery

I know I am
In the last steps of life, my love
I am old, finished
That's why I've been crying
I can't forget my past

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« Reply #124 on: November 01, 2012, 10:52:11 PM »

I won't buy into Star Wars if they kill those characters off, just like I refuse to buy into Modern Warfare or Call of Duty for killing main characters you invest so much time in. Just like I will refuse to invest into another popular game franchise, or like I haven't played or invested time into the Force Unleashed series, and just like I will refuse to buy into anymore Halo games if Master Chief dies. Same reason as to why I absolutely hate the Departed, The Skeleton Key, The Final Cut, The Matrix Series and any other movie that kills off the main character in the end.

Luke must get married, have children and at least live to a very old age before he dies. Anything less is worthless and I'm done with the series.

If they screw this up, I will get rid of all my games, movies, novels, comics & the toys from when I was a kid. They are worthless to me.

Do Hamlet and Othello send you into fits of screaming rage?
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« Reply #125 on: November 01, 2012, 10:58:15 PM »

I won't buy into Star Wars if they kill those characters off, just like I refuse to buy into Modern Warfare or Call of Duty for killing main characters you invest so much time in. Just like I will refuse to invest into another popular game franchise, or like I haven't played or invested time into the Force Unleashed series, and just like I will refuse to buy into anymore Halo games if Master Chief dies. Same reason as to why I absolutely hate the Departed, The Skeleton Key, The Final Cut, The Matrix Series and any other movie that kills off the main character in the end.

Luke must get married, have children and at least live to a very old age before he dies. Anything less is worthless and I'm done with the series.

If they screw this up, I will get rid of all my games, movies, novels, comics & the toys from when I was a kid. They are worthless to me.

Do Hamlet and Othello send you into fits of screaming rage?

Never read them, nor care to read them. Romeo & Juliet was a beautiful story until Shakespeare screwed it up by having them kill themselves tragically. Julius Caesar was also pretty good, but Brutus should have been portrayed as a good guy, not as the antagonist, he was doing the Empire a favor by killing Julius.

Same reason why I think the story of the Spartans at Thermopylae shouldn't be held up as a some great story. It was an incredible feat of sacrifice, but it makes for a terrible story.

Stories should ALWAYS end with the bad guy getting what he deserves, and the protagonists living on in happiness and to an old age.
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« Reply #126 on: November 01, 2012, 10:58:52 PM »

I won't buy into Star Wars if they kill those characters off, just like I refuse to buy into Modern Warfare or Call of Duty for killing main characters you invest so much time in. Just like I will refuse to invest into another popular game franchise, or like I haven't played or invested time into the Force Unleashed series, and just like I will refuse to buy into anymore Halo games if Master Chief dies. Same reason as to why I absolutely hate the Departed, The Skeleton Key, The Final Cut, The Matrix Series and any other movie that kills off the main character in the end.

Luke must get married, have children and at least live to a very old age before he dies. Anything less is worthless and I'm done with the series.

If they screw this up, I will get rid of all my games, movies, novels, comics & the toys from when I was a kid. They are worthless to me.

Do Hamlet and Othello send you into fits of screaming rage?

Never read them, nor care to read them. Romeo & Juliet was a beautiful story until Shakespeare screwed it up by having them kill themselves tragically. Julius Caesar was also pretty good, but Brutus should have been portrayed as a good guy, not as the antagonist, he was doing the Empire a favor by killing Julius.

LOL
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« Reply #127 on: November 01, 2012, 11:00:18 PM »

lol I love Devin.
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« Reply #128 on: November 01, 2012, 11:00:52 PM »

I won't buy into Star Wars if they kill those characters off, just like I refuse to buy into Modern Warfare or Call of Duty for killing main characters you invest so much time in. Just like I will refuse to invest into another popular game franchise, or like I haven't played or invested time into the Force Unleashed series, and just like I will refuse to buy into anymore Halo games if Master Chief dies. Same reason as to why I absolutely hate the Departed, The Skeleton Key, The Final Cut, The Matrix Series and any other movie that kills off the main character in the end.

Luke must get married, have children and at least live to a very old age before he dies. Anything less is worthless and I'm done with the series.

If they screw this up, I will get rid of all my games, movies, novels, comics & the toys from when I was a kid. They are worthless to me.

Do Hamlet and Othello send you into fits of screaming rage?

Never read them, nor care to read them. Romeo & Juliet was a beautiful story until Shakespeare screwed it up by having them kill themselves tragically. Julius Caesar was also pretty good, but Brutus should have been portrayed as a good guy, not as the antagonist, he was doing the Empire a favor by killing Julius.

LOL
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« Reply #129 on: November 01, 2012, 11:02:23 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That is why I stick mostly to non-fiction and the only fictional series I've ever gotten into is Star Wars because it is mostly good without a ton of terrible tragedy. Darth Vader killed his love, but he was redeemed in the end, dying in the arms of his son. His son lives on, marries, and while she dies a tragic death at the hands of a family member (Han & Leia's son if I recall), Luke & her son lives on, and eventually you arrive hundreds of years later and his bloodline still continues.

Like in LOTR, sure it really sucks that Frodo is gone, but the other main protagonists and Aragorn live, marry and have children. Or like Harry Potter, where they all marry and have kids in the end.
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« Reply #130 on: November 01, 2012, 11:04:42 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That's why I don't like 1984.
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« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2012, 11:06:04 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

I'd like to recommend a film to you that you'd really enjoy. It's called Grave of the Fireflies. Don't read the ending- it's a great surprise! But it's animated, so you know it will have a happy ending.  Smiley
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« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2012, 11:09:11 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

I'd like to recommend a film to you that you'd really enjoy. It's called Grave of the Fireflies. Don't read the ending- it's a great surprise! But it's animated, so you know it will have a happy ending.  Smiley

Just read the ending, that is a crappy ending. Absolutely not worth watching.
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« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2012, 11:14:22 PM »

Its also the reason I don't get into watching TV series (except one, which never has an "ending" and death doesn't happen, well, except when it is unfortunately real). I've gone this whole time resisting the temptation to watch series like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and Walking Dead because I refuse to get invested in characters if they just kill them off.

That is also why I'm so glad I didn't get into Lost until the very end, so that I wasn't invested into any characters dying, and while I was mad they killed off the main character, the ending was still happy.

Also, while it is a comedy, I'm glad I never got into Seinfeld because to end the series with them all going to jail is just stupid and pointless. I'm glad that as I grew up watching Friends, they didn't screw us over and gave us what we wanted, to see everyone together, married and happy.
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« Reply #134 on: November 01, 2012, 11:20:58 PM »

I'm glad that as I grew up watching Friends, they didn't screw us over and gave us what we wanted, to see everyone together, married and happy.

'Cause that's what life is like.
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« Reply #135 on: November 01, 2012, 11:24:34 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

I'd like to recommend a film to you that you'd really enjoy. It's called Grave of the Fireflies. Don't read the ending- it's a great surprise! But it's animated, so you know it will have a happy ending.  Smiley
Oh man that movie...

Yes Devin WATCH THAT MOVIE.
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« Reply #136 on: November 01, 2012, 11:25:34 PM »

I'm glad that as I grew up watching Friends, they didn't screw us over and gave us what we wanted, to see everyone together, married and happy.

'Cause that's what life is like.

Fiction ain't about "real life", art should always be about taking us out of this world and making us feel good.

Oh and by the way, you're Orthodox, and therefore you believe that things will turn out perfect and alright in the end. The evil get their (sad and unfortunate) "justice" and the good get their reward and live in happiness forever. Did Jesus die, and then, that is it? No, Jesus died, and rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
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« Reply #137 on: November 01, 2012, 11:26:59 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

I'd like to recommend a film to you that you'd really enjoy. It's called Grave of the Fireflies. Don't read the ending- it's a great surprise! But it's animated, so you know it will have a happy ending.  Smiley
Oh man that movie...

Yes Devin WATCH THAT MOVIE.

No, I've already read a synopsis and summary of the ending. No way in heck I'd watch that stupid movie. Like I said, movies should lift you up and make you feel better about yourself, about humanity, about life, about other people.

Pessimists and cynics can go crawl in a corner and mope around till they die. Let the optimists have art and movie-making.

Like I said, movies should always have happy endings, with the protagonists living on in peace and happiness, possibly with children and with the antagonists suffering at the hand of justice.
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« Reply #138 on: November 01, 2012, 11:36:02 PM »

Well movies should also make us compassionate for the suffering of others as well, because let me tell you, there are very few happy endings in life.

I mean yes, movies that empower us and uplift us are good things but we can also use movies that do not do this to our benefit as well.
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« Reply #139 on: November 01, 2012, 11:44:27 PM »

Well movies should also make us compassionate for the suffering of others as well, because let me tell you, there are very few happy endings in life.

I mean yes, movies that empower us and uplift us are good things but we can also use movies that do not do this to our benefit as well.

They may make us compassionate, but the protagonists should show compassion, and the suffering people should be satisfied. The people who cause them suffering should always come to justice.

This is one of the major reasons I'm a Orthodox Christian, atheism leaves no purpose and might as well end in suicide. People who suffer may die (like Lazarus in the parable) but get their satisfaction in eternity. We just haven't seen "the end" of the story.

Let's look at real life why don't we? Nazis and Gestapo at Nuremburg,  Hitler, Saddam, Osama, Qaddafi and others, all committing evils, but faced justice. Or look at Julian the Apostate, who killed so many Christians, who are now in heaven, and he died a terrible, painful death that he deserved.

And if they aren't saved in the end, they will spend an eternity "burning" (not in a good way) due to overwhelming God's grace & love. Those who are saved, will be forever illumined and grow in his nature, becoming more and more like him. This is real life.

The only purpose of all kinds of art including sculpture, painting, architecture, movies, TV, books, graphic novels, poems and music should be to lift us up and make us feel good, and show that justice is served to those who do evil and those who are good or who suffer at the hands of evil find comfort, love and happiness.

Why do you think I almost exclusively listen to classical music, Orthodox chant and early 20th Century popular music? The "classical" artists, architects, composers, musicians and writers were superb in lifting up the human person and creating things and environments that made you feel better about your life and about your world, just take Vivaldi's Four Seasons as an example: http://youtu.be/GRxofEmo3HA
Or as a more "contemporary" example, you have Swing music of the early 20th Century, along with other genres which people loved for many reasons, one of those important reasons being it could lift you up and at least bring you out of the Great Depression, if only for a time.
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« Reply #140 on: November 02, 2012, 12:17:27 AM »

There is also a reason that while I think Skyrim is pretty fun as a game, it also sucks to a degree because it seems to borrow a lot from Nietzsche with it's relative morality and no real clear good-evil division and decisions for either side includes some good but also some evil as well.

There is grey area in Star Wars as well, but there is a distinction between good and evil, with the Light side of the force and its users being good, and the Dark Side of the force and its users being evil. Therefore the evil should also get justice, the good should also triumph and "live happily ever after".

And no, this isn't the same as I complained about earlier about being "kid friendly".
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« Reply #141 on: November 02, 2012, 01:00:16 AM »

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
I agree. One of my favorite Star Wars Story lines. I was extremely disappointed when KOTOR III was dropped. I REALLY waned to know what happens next.

Go to wookiepedia and read the article on Revan, it will fill you in on the details (whether or not the details are the same as they'd have been if we got KOTOR III, I've no clue).

What happened to Revan is in the game Star Wars The Old Republic. They did an excellent job with that game EA is just a terrible company.

My bro played it and did all the Revan quests.

I wish they would have made SWTOR for a console. Whichever company has the guts and know-how to make an MMO for consoles first will make a killing.

I used to think a KOTOR mmo would be awesome...until I stopped and realized it would only be on the damn computer.`
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« Reply #142 on: November 02, 2012, 01:01:41 AM »

Attempting to appease the fanboys who bought all the books, magazines, comic books, video games, lunch boxes, etc. is virtually a guarantee that the new movie would suck. What is needed are writers and directors who are not particularly in love with the Star Wars franchise and who have an idea of what makes good art and good space opera in general.

The new movie may very well suck but it won't be because it violates some sacred Star Wars canon.

You're not a Star Wars fan, clearly. The books, magazines, comic books and the rest of the Expanded Universe is absolutely amazing, and would make for a great film! (minus the stupid emperor clone thing)

Yeah, aside from the Imperial clones, the EU is pretty damn awesome.
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« Reply #143 on: November 02, 2012, 01:04:38 AM »

Old republic movies might be cool.

I've long said that KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the once-planned (until LucasArts scrapped it) KOTOR III would have made for an awesome Star Wars trilogy.
I agree. One of my favorite Star Wars Story lines. I was extremely disappointed when KOTOR III was dropped. I REALLY waned to know what happens next.

Go to wookiepedia and read the article on Revan, it will fill you in on the details (whether or not the details are the same as they'd have been if we got KOTOR III, I've no clue).

What happened to Revan is in the game Star Wars The Old Republic. They did an excellent job with that game EA is just a terrible company.

My bro played it and did all the Revan quests.

I wish they would have made SWTOR for a console. Whichever company has the guts and know-how to make an MMO for consoles first will make a killing.

I used to think a KOTOR mmo would be awesome...until I stopped and realized it would only be on the damn computer.`

It is/was pretty awesome. Unfortunately EA have their grubby, fat, greedy hands on it and they bend over backwards to the will of their investors. Bioware delivered a great product, but EA Games cut their balls off (well, and the rest of the 3/4 of their body). I honestly want to see EA Games and Sony Online Entertainment both crash and burn for what they did to SWTOR & SWG.
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« Reply #144 on: November 02, 2012, 01:17:58 AM »

Fiction ain't about "real life", art should always be about taking us out of this world and making us feel good.

I disagree with a lot of your posts in this thread, but I agree with this one. It baffles me why people watch entertainment that is basically voyeurism into another person's life. Nothing extraordinary, just pretty much the same crap I live with every day. It has to be set apart somehow.

I don't need a happy ending though. A.I. would have been better if David was left at the bottom of the ocean forever, for instance. But it has to has to have something to take it beyond the mundane of everyday life. I want to be entertained; if I want to ponder about life I'll watch the news or read a spiritual book.

I hope Harrison comes back. He's the best actor of the three, and Indy 4's failure was not his fault. He might not do it though, as he always wanted to move on from that, his first major role, and develop more. But he's getting old and that could be a great way to wind down his career.

I'm more worried about the music. I was afraid John Williams would die before he finished Ep III. I'm still disappointed by how much music they recycled in II and III. He's probably not up for it, but whoever they get had better be a kindred spirit to him.

Anyway, as a sidebar, if anyone wants to see the prequels redeemed, I highly recommend tracking down the Phantom Edits of I and II. The editor does away with the fluff in both and the horrific execution of Anakin and Padme's romance, actually saving the films in many ways. (It's not just taking out Jar Jar, as he does serve a purpose.)
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« Reply #145 on: November 02, 2012, 02:18:54 AM »

Fiction ain't about "real life", art should always be about taking us out of this world and making us feel good.

I disagree with a lot of your posts in this thread, but I agree with this one. It baffles me why people watch entertainment that is basically voyeurism into another person's life. Nothing extraordinary, just pretty much the same crap I live with every day. It has to be set apart somehow.

I don't need a happy ending though. A.I. would have been better if David was left at the bottom of the ocean forever, for instance. But it has to has to have something to take it beyond the mundane of everyday life. I want to be entertained; if I want to ponder about life I'll watch the news or read a spiritual book.

I hope Harrison comes back. He's the best actor of the three, and Indy 4's failure was not his fault. He might not do it though, as he always wanted to move on from that, his first major role, and develop more. But he's getting old and that could be a great way to wind down his career.

I'm more worried about the music. I was afraid John Williams would die before he finished Ep III. I'm still disappointed by how much music they recycled in II and III. He's probably not up for it, but whoever they get had better be a kindred spirit to him.

Anyway, as a sidebar, if anyone wants to see the prequels redeemed, I highly recommend tracking down the Phantom Edits of I and II. The editor does away with the fluff in both and the horrific execution of Anakin and Padme's romance, actually saving the films in many ways. (It's not just taking out Jar Jar, as he does serve a purpose.)

I think stories like Lord of the Rings, the Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter, Star Wars (current) and others are great because they take you out of your world, give you hope and lift you up. Star Wars is all about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker from his fall. The sequels should be about the continuation of his legacy, the Skywalker legacy and the journey of the Skywalkers to maintain the balance that Anakin was prophesied to bring. That doesn't mean Luke has to found a whole order, but it should mean that Luke has to have a child. He shouldn't die alone and without heirs. Good has triumphed, but evil still exists and the sequels should be about the Skywalkers & Solo legacies to maintain that order through The Force & through Diplomacy.

The Empire is dead with the Emperor and I could understand ignoring the "Remnants" of the post-ROTJ books. They could be done without. However, there needs to be a unifying government born out of the Rebel Alliance, and the "New Republic" should be just that. It shouldn't be a fleeting group though, and its defeat or subjugation within a century of its birth in the books should also be done away with.
The Yuuzhan Vong provide a great new enemy. The whole idea of the "emperor's clones" and "third death star at Kessel" or of a new "Sith Empire" are simply rehashes of the same old stories which should have been resolved at ROTJ. The Yuuzhan Vong are enemies devoid of the force, and who cannot be detected or read by the force, and who's presence doesn't necessarily disrupt the balance of the Force (which should be maintained after ROTJ per the prophecies about Anakin).

Depending on when they set the movies, Han Solo could be dead, but it should only be of old age. Chewbacca could be caring for an elderly Leia while her and Han's children enter adulthood. They can also forget Chewbacca's whole death thing, that'd be okay as well.

This is where they should more directly insert EU canon. Mara Jade should be included here. Mara should be Luke's wife, but Luke, at the point of these movies should be an elderly man, possibly a widower. They should have only one son, Ben Skywalker, who, like the Solo children, is entering adulthood. In the first movie, much like Ben, Luke "passes the torch" to his son, the third Skywalker, who then heads off to adventure with the Solo kids, 3PO & R2. At this point, they could have Luke become one with the force in the presence of his family, and end his death with him standing "force ghost" alongside Ben, Yoda, Mara and Anakin as a young Luke. This would be the conclusion of the "old generation", with Leia living the rest of her life as a senator in the New Republic (with Chewy, 3PO and R2 at her side) and eventually passing on, unifying with the force as her brother & father did. The only remnants of the original 6 would be Chewy, 3PO & R2. Chewy's life-debt could be retired with the death of Leia, and he could be sent off to his family, maybe have one of his children adventure with the Solo children. 3PO & R2 would aid Ben Skywalker (and occasionally the Solos) in his adventures.

This would all be the first movie, allowing the next two to be all about the children.

This would be, in my mind, an acceptable way to "forget the EU" while also nodding and respecting the EU, and staying true to the Star Wars saga.
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« Reply #146 on: November 02, 2012, 02:28:01 AM »

Now that I've calmed down a bit. I will say this.

There are many of us, and many people older than I, who have dedicated a lot of time and money to the Star Wars franchise, and especially to the Expanded Universe. We did so with the understanding that most of what we bought into was second only to "G canon", and that it would be respected. It has been respected, and in many examples, George has actually included the EU in his movies. This is all we really ask for.

Star Wars cannot be given the new "Star Trek" treatment. You can't create a new "universe" or "dimension". You also cannot give it the "reboot" treatment of the Avengers and Marvel. Marvel comics and the characters within them have been so varied throughout time with many different storylines and offshoots that a new reboot isn't much of a problem.
With Star Wars, you have a canon and a continuity that all authors have to stick to. In order to publish their works, authors had to get permission from "Lucas" and their work had to directly check with the "holocron" (IE: Leland Chee, who also answers(ed) to George Lucas himself) and the canon.
Some minor things in the books can and have been scrapped. That isn't a problem. The problem is completely scrapping it all and "starting over".

This, to many of us who have been fans our whole lives, and who have dedicated our own time and money into the entire franchise (not just the movies), this feels like an absolute slap in the face, and an insult to everything we've known as Star Wars. Does the average, casual movie-goer care about the Expanded Universe? No, they don't. But that doesn't mean that a huge part of the Star Wars community should be ignored just because the "casual folks" don't care. I think, for all his faults, George understood this and respected this, and Disney should be expected to do the same. Rather than stabbing us in the back and throwing salt on the wound for good measure, they should respectfully nod towards the EU and respect it and what it has done.
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« Reply #147 on: November 02, 2012, 06:34:03 AM »

@88Devin12 : Luke, Han, and Leia (as well as Jaina, Ben or Allana) have to die because at the time of Kol or Cade they are already dead. But there is absolutely nothing known about the period between 45 and 130 ABY. I wouldn't mind if the  movies were placed in that period and they described the rise of the Fel Empire (including some deaths) for example. It would be canonical.
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« Reply #148 on: November 02, 2012, 07:50:55 AM »

I would also just like to say that a movie about Zaalbar would be awesome.
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« Reply #149 on: November 02, 2012, 08:26:38 AM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That is why I stick mostly to non-fiction and the only fictional series I've ever gotten into is Star Wars because it is mostly good without a ton of terrible tragedy. Darth Vader killed his love, but he was redeemed in the end, dying in the arms of his son. His son lives on, marries, and while she dies a tragic death at the hands of a family member (Han & Leia's son if I recall), Luke & her son lives on, and eventually you arrive hundreds of years later and his bloodline still continues.

Like in LOTR, sure it really sucks that Frodo is gone, but the other main protagonists and Aragorn live, marry and have children. Or like Harry Potter, where they all marry and have kids in the end.

I take it Dostoevsky is not your cup of tea then... Smiley
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« Reply #150 on: November 02, 2012, 08:54:47 AM »

Now that I've calmed down a bit. I will say this.

There are many of us, and many people older than I, who have dedicated a lot of time and money to the Star Wars franchise, and especially to the Expanded Universe. We did so with the understanding that most of what we bought into was second only to "G canon", and that it would be respected. It has been respected, and in many examples, George has actually included the EU in his movies. This is all we really ask for.

And in many examples, George Lucas took the EU and wiped with it. The Clone Wars were so much better before the prequels came out.

Quote
Star Wars cannot be given the new "Star Trek" treatment. You can't create a new "universe" or "dimension". You also cannot give it the "reboot" treatment of the Avengers and Marvel. Marvel comics and the characters within them have been so varied throughout time with many different storylines and offshoots that a new reboot isn't much of a problem.
You can reboot anything.
Quote
With Star Wars, you have a canon and a continuity that all authors have to stick to. In order to publish their works, authors had to get permission from "Lucas" and their work had to directly check with the "holocron" (IE: Leland Chee, who also answers(ed) to George Lucas himself) and the canon.
Some minor things in the books can and have been scrapped. That isn't a problem. The problem is completely scrapping it all and "starting over".
You do realize that the possibility for any serious discussion of "canon" and "continuity" went out the window about fifteen years ago? Han shot first.
Quote
This, to many of us who have been fans our whole lives, and who have dedicated our own time and money into the entire franchise (not just the movies), this feels like an absolute slap in the face, and an insult to everything we've known as Star Wars. Does the average, casual movie-goer care about the Expanded Universe? No, they don't. But that doesn't mean that a huge part of the Star Wars community should be ignored just because the "casual folks" don't care. I think, for all his faults, George understood this and respected this, and Disney should be expected to do the same. Rather than stabbing us in the back and throwing salt on the wound for good measure, they should respectfully nod towards the EU and respect it and what it has done.
You realize that neither Lucas nor Disney owe the fans squat? The EU was not the height of Western literary achievement- it was a woefully uneven string of books and comic books, some good, most bad- as any ongoing series that has a revolving door of authors is going to be. I love Spiderman- this doesn't mean I feel absolute devotion to each and every Spiderman comic that has ever come out. There have been plenty of downright horrible Spiderman storylines. I'm sure somebody LOVED say, the '90s Clone storyline or the Sins of the Father or JMS's run, but the rest of us are happy that they have never been mentioned again.

Whatever they do, keep R.A. Salvatore far, far away (see what I did there?) from the script.
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« Reply #151 on: November 02, 2012, 03:13:38 PM »

Devin's aesthetics have more in common with Stalin's socialist realism than anything Christian.
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« Reply #152 on: November 02, 2012, 03:53:17 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That is why I stick mostly to non-fiction and the only fictional series I've ever gotten into is Star Wars because it is mostly good without a ton of terrible tragedy. Darth Vader killed his love, but he was redeemed in the end, dying in the arms of his son. His son lives on, marries, and while she dies a tragic death at the hands of a family member (Han & Leia's son if I recall), Luke & her son lives on, and eventually you arrive hundreds of years later and his bloodline still continues.

Like in LOTR, sure it really sucks that Frodo is gone, but the other main protagonists and Aragorn live, marry and have children. Or like Harry Potter, where they all marry and have kids in the end.

There's this Russian flick I think you'd just LOVE.  It's called Come and See.
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« Reply #153 on: November 02, 2012, 03:59:59 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That is why I stick mostly to non-fiction and the only fictional series I've ever gotten into is Star Wars because it is mostly good without a ton of terrible tragedy. Darth Vader killed his love, but he was redeemed in the end, dying in the arms of his son. His son lives on, marries, and while she dies a tragic death at the hands of a family member (Han & Leia's son if I recall), Luke & her son lives on, and eventually you arrive hundreds of years later and his bloodline still continues.

Like in LOTR, sure it really sucks that Frodo is gone, but the other main protagonists and Aragorn live, marry and have children. Or like Harry Potter, where they all marry and have kids in the end.

There's this Russian flick I think you'd just LOVE.  It's called Come and See.

The protagonist is still alive at the end, so you know it's an uplifting film.
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« Reply #154 on: November 02, 2012, 04:09:33 PM »

Devin's aesthetics have more in common with Stalin's socialist realism than anything Christian.

I was thinking more Ayn Rand's Objectivist rules for art.
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« Reply #155 on: November 02, 2012, 04:19:54 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That is why I stick mostly to non-fiction and the only fictional series I've ever gotten into is Star Wars because it is mostly good without a ton of terrible tragedy. Darth Vader killed his love, but he was redeemed in the end, dying in the arms of his son. His son lives on, marries, and while she dies a tragic death at the hands of a family member (Han & Leia's son if I recall), Luke & her son lives on, and eventually you arrive hundreds of years later and his bloodline still continues.

Like in LOTR, sure it really sucks that Frodo is gone, but the other main protagonists and Aragorn live, marry and have children. Or like Harry Potter, where they all marry and have kids in the end.

There's this Russian flick I think you'd just LOVE.  It's called Come and See.

The protagonist is still alive at the end, so you know it's an uplifting film.

Just read a synopsis, that's an acceptable ending. The Nazis (or rather the SS) are killed for burning the Byelorussians. The protagonist joins the partisans to go and continue fighting the Germans.
While obviously fictional, I would also suggest that the end of Inglourious Basterds is acceptable with Bitler and the rest of the nazis being burned and shot to death, even while the protagonists die with them.

I also kind of take issue with Saving Private Ryan since Tom Hank's character dies, even though Matt Damon's lives.

Another film with a crappy ending would be the Sixth Sense. The whole twist of Bruce Willis' character dying tragically in front of his wife and being a ghost the whole time is far too sad and depressing.

Or as I mentioned before, the Final Cut where Robin Williams tried to keep his memory away from the evil people and in the end fails and is shot dead in the graveyard.
Or the Skeleton Key where Kate Hudson's character struggles against the antagonist throughout the film, only to fall victim to it and die in the end, just becoming another victim.
Or the Departed where nearly every single character dies in the end.
Or the Godfather where the main character dies old, abandoned and alone in the end.

Those are not acceptable endings.
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« Reply #156 on: November 02, 2012, 04:25:24 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That is why I stick mostly to non-fiction and the only fictional series I've ever gotten into is Star Wars because it is mostly good without a ton of terrible tragedy. Darth Vader killed his love, but he was redeemed in the end, dying in the arms of his son. His son lives on, marries, and while she dies a tragic death at the hands of a family member (Han & Leia's son if I recall), Luke & her son lives on, and eventually you arrive hundreds of years later and his bloodline still continues.

Like in LOTR, sure it really sucks that Frodo is gone, but the other main protagonists and Aragorn live, marry and have children. Or like Harry Potter, where they all marry and have kids in the end.

There's this Russian flick I think you'd just LOVE.  It's called Come and See.

The protagonist is still alive at the end, so you know it's an uplifting film.

Just read a synopsis, that's an acceptable ending.

Great, now go rent that sucker and prepare to be uplifted Smiley
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« Reply #157 on: November 02, 2012, 04:28:53 PM »

Devin's aesthetics have more in common with Stalin's socialist realism than anything Christian.

I was thinking more Ayn Rand's Objectivist rules for art.

Neither of you clearly know the history of art and architecture. Maybe you should learn more about art prior to the 20th century? Prior to the travesty called "modern art".

Also, fascist regimes like Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini may have used classicism, but it is a logical fallacy to conclude that because they used those styles that those styles are inherently fascist, authoritarian and evil. Remember that before they turned against it, they were actually part of and utilized (quite heavily) modernism.  In fact I think it was either Stalin or Lenin who fed their ideas and philosophy in avant-gard venues.

Fascism and the idiocy of people like Stalin and Ayn Rand don't reflect badly on the classical tradition.

You're talking to someone who has a minor degree in the history of art and architecture, and who has taken hundreds (if not over a thousand) of hours of classes on the subject.
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« Reply #158 on: November 02, 2012, 04:30:18 PM »

Devin's aesthetics have more in common with Stalin's socialist realism than anything Christian.

I was thinking more Ayn Rand's Objectivist rules for art.

Neither of you clearly know the history of art and architecture. Maybe you should learn more about art prior to the 20th century? Prior to the travesty called "modern art".

Says the guy who hasn't read Hamlet or Othello.
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« Reply #159 on: November 02, 2012, 04:30:41 PM »

It is the exact same reason I read the ending to every movie I watch or want to watch. If the ending isn't good and isn't happy, then I refuse to watch it and may even walk out (unless I'm at the theater with friends).

Same thing with video games, I will read the ending, and if the ending is good, I might buy it, if not, I won't.

I read fiction to feel better and fiction (and all forms of art) should be to lift the person up and make them feel good, not dash them into pieces and make them feel like crap.

That is why I stick mostly to non-fiction and the only fictional series I've ever gotten into is Star Wars because it is mostly good without a ton of terrible tragedy. Darth Vader killed his love, but he was redeemed in the end, dying in the arms of his son. His son lives on, marries, and while she dies a tragic death at the hands of a family member (Han & Leia's son if I recall), Luke & her son lives on, and eventually you arrive hundreds of years later and his bloodline still continues.

Like in LOTR, sure it really sucks that Frodo is gone, but the other main protagonists and Aragorn live, marry and have children. Or like Harry Potter, where they all marry and have kids in the end.

There's this Russian flick I think you'd just LOVE.  It's called Come and See.

The protagonist is still alive at the end, so you know it's an uplifting film.

Just read a synopsis, that's an acceptable ending.

Great, now go rent that sucker and prepare to be uplifted Smiley

I didn't say it was uplifting, I said its ending is acceptable. At least the end gives you hope that more Nazis will pay for the evil they committed. The Byelorussians who were killed cant come back, but justice can be served.
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« Reply #160 on: November 02, 2012, 04:54:28 PM »

Fascism and the idiocy of people like Stalin and Ayn Rand don't reflect badly on the classical tradition.

And neither do your silly dogmas have anything to do with the classical tradition. Pick up a copy of Aristotle's Poetics some time.
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« Reply #161 on: November 02, 2012, 04:55:01 PM »

Devin's aesthetics have more in common with Stalin's socialist realism than anything Christian.

I was thinking more Ayn Rand's Objectivist rules for art.

Neither of you clearly know the history of art and architecture. Maybe you should learn more about art prior to the 20th century? Prior to the travesty called "modern art".

Says the guy who hasn't read Hamlet or Othello.

Or apparently Beowulf.
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« Reply #162 on: November 02, 2012, 05:11:03 PM »

I think the movies will be better off if George Lucas DOES NOT make them. People who aren't George Lucas understand Star Wars.

A great thing that comes from this deal is that people other than George Lucas will be making a Star Wars movie. That's been the dream for YEARS. Say what you will about the prequels (ex.: "Boooooo!"), but the main problem with them is that they weren't Star Wars movies. They were clunky homages to Star Wars in the Star Wars universe. This is because, despite being the "visionary" behind them, I don't think George Lucas actually likes Star Wars. If he does, then he doesn't know why. He doesn't understand what people like about it. He doesn't understand what makes it good. If he did, he wouldn't have done [anything he's done in the past two decades].

George just got Star Wars WRONG somehow in the prequels. There were light sabers, there were droids and there were Jedi, but it wasn't Star Wars. When he made A New Hope, he was setting out to make a film drawing from all the old Westerns and sci-fi serials he loved as a kid. He didn't know what Star Wars was -- he just made it. When he made the prequels, however, he was actively trying to make what he thought a Star Wars movie was, and that is why he failed.

But now Star Wars will be in someone else's hands. Someone who watched it and loved it and understands why. Someone with fresh ideas based on an entirely different childhood of consuming pop culture entertainment. Maybe Brad Bird will make a Star War. Maybe Joss Whedon or Darren Aronofsky will make a Star War. Hell, in 20 years, maybe you will get to make a Star Wars.
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« Reply #163 on: November 02, 2012, 06:08:25 PM »

Fascism and the idiocy of people like Stalin and Ayn Rand don't reflect badly on the classical tradition.

And neither do your silly dogmas have anything to do with the classical tradition. Pick up a copy of Aristotle's Poetics some time.

For me, the classical tradition isn't restricted to the Ancient Greeks. The classical tradition spans all parts of the world in almost all forms of art and architecture from Ancient Greece up to the mid 1800s, and going into a catacombs/underground state in the early 1900s.

I'm not someone who holds strongly to Greek philosophy or Greek/Roman law and ideas. I'm much more of a fan of the Roman Empire after Constantine, and especially of Middle Ages and Renaissance. I abhor and reject a lot of things from the enlightenment, industrial age and modernism. (and yes, I know a lot of those I hold as heroes based some of their ideals on Greek philosophy)

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?
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« Reply #164 on: November 02, 2012, 06:26:22 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
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« Reply #165 on: November 02, 2012, 06:27:50 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are not to judge someone's state of salvation, we have every right and duty to judge the behavior and actions of a person as being good or evil.

Do you think Jesus thought that prostitution was okay and that the prostitute could just go back into prostitution as long as she believed in him? No. He welcomed her because she was made after his image and likeness, but at the same time he and his disciples would condemn the behavior of the unrighteous (such as the Pharisees).

Do you think that just because they are made in the image and likeness of God, that the work of porn stars is artistic and possibly has artistic merit? Or how about the "musical" work of gangster rap, who sing about rap, shooting people and is full of crude, sexual and violent language?

No, I'm actually of the opinion that pornography and any nudity in any films, ads or any media (including games) should be completely banned. No matter how "artistic" it is. This would also extend to literary works. From what I've heard about it, 50 Shades of Grey sounds disgusting and shouldn't have ever been permitted to be published.
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« Reply #166 on: November 02, 2012, 07:56:33 PM »

Vader arrives in Disneyland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xUbH1SEsqiE
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« Reply #167 on: November 02, 2012, 07:57:35 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Thank you for posting the whole bit instead of soundbiteing it.  Most people don't.  Keep in mind, if your judgement it just then what have you to fear?  Note that the next three lines show when a judgement is most just - when it is there to help out your fellow man.  Though, Christ also warns that you must judge yourself first in order to cast the mote from your brother's eye.
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« Reply #168 on: November 02, 2012, 08:04:00 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Thank you for posting the whole bit instead of soundbiteing it.  Most people don't.  Keep in mind, if your judgement it just then what have you to fear?  Note that the next three lines show when a judgement is most just - when it is there to help out your fellow man.  Though, Christ also warns that you must judge yourself first in order to cast the mote from your brother's eye.

As I said, judgement is meant by judging someone's salvation, which we can't do. But we have every right and duty as Christians to judge behavior and actions.
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« Reply #169 on: November 02, 2012, 08:08:54 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Thank you for posting the whole bit instead of soundbiteing it.  Most people don't.  Keep in mind, if your judgement it just then what have you to fear?  Note that the next three lines show when a judgement is most just - when it is there to help out your fellow man.  Though, Christ also warns that you must judge yourself first in order to cast the mote from your brother's eye.

As I said, judgement is meant by judging someone's salvation, which we can't do. But we have every right and duty as Christians to judge behavior and actions.

Very right in that.
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« Reply #170 on: November 02, 2012, 08:38:59 PM »

As I said, judgement is meant by judging someone's salvation, which we can't do. But we have every right and duty as Christians to judge behavior and actions.

Indeed. "Discernment" is a more accurate term than "judgment" in these cases. As Christians we are commanded to be discerning.
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« Reply #171 on: November 02, 2012, 09:37:17 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are not to judge someone's state of salvation, we have every right and duty to judge the behavior and actions of a person as being good or evil.

Oh?  "He who busies himself with the sins of others, or judges his brother on suspicion, has not yet even begun to repent or to examine himself so as to discover his own sins..." - St. Maximos the Confessor

And really, why are you maligning a man long dead?  And what basis do you have to support the idea that he was a great sinner?
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« Reply #172 on: November 02, 2012, 09:57:02 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are not to judge someone's state of salvation, we have every right and duty to judge the behavior and actions of a person as being good or evil.

Oh?  "He who busies himself with the sins of others, or judges his brother on suspicion, has not yet even begun to repent or to examine himself so as to discover his own sins..." - St. Maximos the Confessor

And really, why are you maligning a man long dead?  And what basis do you have to support the idea that he was a great sinner?

I never said he was a greater sinner than me. I said he was immoral, avant-garde and was involved in a less-than-reputable group. I think we know (or can guess from his writings) that he was an active homosexual, he joked about sexual immorality (including prostitution) in his literature, he was certainly avant-garde and part of a less-than-reputable group. Back then, many playwrights, actors and plays were not considered a very reputable or acceptable thing. Think of the environment Shakespeare was involved in as more like how we think of gangster rap when compared with classical music. Even if the greatest lyricist ever were to write a gangster rap song, does that mean his work is automatically great and he should be upheld as a great artist? No...

Like I said, as Orthodox Christians, we are called not to judge a person's soul. However we are called to judge (Or rather use discernment) a person's actions, decisions and morals.
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« Reply #173 on: November 02, 2012, 10:05:44 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are not to judge someone's state of salvation, we have every right and duty to judge the behavior and actions of a person as being good or evil.

Oh?  "He who busies himself with the sins of others, or judges his brother on suspicion, has not yet even begun to repent or to examine himself so as to discover his own sins..." - St. Maximos the Confessor

And really, why are you maligning a man long dead?  And what basis do you have to support the idea that he was a great sinner?

I never said he was a greater sinner than me. I said he was immoral, avant-garde and was involved in a less-than-reputable group. I think we know (or can guess from his writings) that he was an active homosexual, he joked about sexual immorality (including prostitution) in his literature, he was certainly avant-garde and part of a less-than-reputable group. Back then, many playwrights, actors and plays were not considered a very reputable or acceptable thing. Think of the environment Shakespeare was involved in as more like how we think of gangster rap when compared with classical music. Even if the greatest lyricist ever were to write a gangster rap song, does that mean his work is automatically great and he should be upheld as a great artist? No...

Like I said, as Orthodox Christians, we are called not to judge a person's soul. However we are called to judge (Or rather use discernment) a person's actions, decisions and morals.

A few things.... Far from "avant-garde", Shakespeare was as much a populist as Lucas in his prequel years.

Also, what do you have against Dante's Inferno? The people that man dissed deserved it- and he did it with mad skillz, yo.
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« Reply #174 on: November 02, 2012, 10:13:40 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are not to judge someone's state of salvation, we have every right and duty to judge the behavior and actions of a person as being good or evil.

Oh?  "He who busies himself with the sins of others, or judges his brother on suspicion, has not yet even begun to repent or to examine himself so as to discover his own sins..." - St. Maximos the Confessor

And really, why are you maligning a man long dead?  And what basis do you have to support the idea that he was a great sinner?

I never said he was a greater sinner than me. I said he was immoral, avant-garde and was involved in a less-than-reputable group. I think we know (or can guess from his writings) that he was an active homosexual, he joked about sexual immorality (including prostitution) in his literature, he was certainly avant-garde and part of a less-than-reputable group. Back then, many playwrights, actors and plays were not considered a very reputable or acceptable thing. Think of the environment Shakespeare was involved in as more like how we think of gangster rap when compared with classical music. Even if the greatest lyricist ever were to write a gangster rap song, does that mean his work is automatically great and he should be upheld as a great artist? No...

Like I said, as Orthodox Christians, we are called not to judge a person's soul. However we are called to judge (Or rather use discernment) a person's actions, decisions and morals.

A few things.... Far from "avant-garde", Shakespeare was as much a populist as Lucas in his prequel years.

Also, what do you have against Dante's Inferno? The people that man dissed deserved it- and he did it with mad skillz, yo.

I guess what I was taught about Shakespeare wasn't quite accurate. I thought he was just an unappreciated, unrecognized member of the lower class whose talents were wasted on the lower-brow culture of the theatre (which was not like, nor thought of like it is today).

I was taught by our educational system that his life and the culture he was involved in was much more akin to that of those of the fictional actors/actresses of "Jesus of Montreal" than they were of, say mainstream, classy "high-culture" actors and actresses of today. btw, "Jesus of Montreal" is another movie I detested, and I had to watch that movie in a class that was supposed to be about the real Jesus. Ugh...

As for Dante's Inferno. Brutus definitely didn't deserve to get "dissed", he was in the lowest part of hell being consumed by the beast alongside Judas. Brutus was totally justified in killing Julius Caesar. Other than that, I don't have much of a problem with it, other than how it is terribly theologically wrong and helped lead to the incorrect view of hell that many Westerns began to have.

Also, I purchased Dostoevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov" and "The Grand Inquisitor" a while back, and have Dante's Inferno sitting on my shelf. I know that for the first two it may not end like I would want, but I feel I'm obliged to read them.

I think my main deal, is that we shouldn't come out of a movie, book or game feeling depressed. We have enough of that in real life, and we shouldn't have to experience it in fiction either. I understand non-fiction works or fictional works designed to get you to sympathize for a group or a cause and recognize the suffering that has happened, but you should come out feeling compassionate, but hopeful rather than depressed and sad.
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« Reply #175 on: November 02, 2012, 10:18:35 PM »

Quote from: 88Devin12

As for Shakespeare and his works. He was an immoral, avant-gard playwright who lavished in the less-than-reputable society of his day. He may have been brilliant in his compositions, poetry and use of language, but that doesn't mean his plays were proper. Do you realize how crude (and ripe with sexual innuendos and puns) a lot of his work is?

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,

2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are not to judge someone's state of salvation, we have every right and duty to judge the behavior and actions of a person as being good or evil.

Oh?  "He who busies himself with the sins of others, or judges his brother on suspicion, has not yet even begun to repent or to examine himself so as to discover his own sins..." - St. Maximos the Confessor

Some critical thinking is required when taking snippets from Scripture as well as the writings of Saints.  If St. Maximos the Confessor had spent all his time worrying about his own sins and repenting he never would have had time to have given us insights in how to better live our lives.  Perhaps he cleaned the plank out of his eye first and then went on to guide us.  And thank God he did for it is a great mercy of God to have the lives and judgements of the Saints to guide us.

Quote
And really, why are you maligning a man long dead?  And what basis do you have to support the idea that he was a great sinner?

I will play the Devin's advocate in these theological matters, though not in his taste in literature.
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« Reply #176 on: November 02, 2012, 10:22:30 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

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« Reply #177 on: November 02, 2012, 10:27:21 PM »

I will also admit that some of my feelings about Shakespeare and his literature didn't come from college, but from my high school education years ago, and our educational system in high school isn't always the best. I'm more open regarding Shakespeare, but I always was so angry about Romeo & Juliet. Suicide has always horrified me, and i cannot stand it in any media. When I saw "The Dead Poet's Society" and Dr. Wilson (from House)'s suicide, I about shut it off.

When I was much younger, I had to battle depression, and seeing suicide in movies disgusts me and hits too close to home. That is the same exact reason I hate depressing films. I had enough of that crap when I was younger, I don't want to feel depressed, especially if I'm trying to escape the stress of everyday life by reading a book, watching a film or playing a game.
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« Reply #178 on: November 02, 2012, 10:27:46 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?



As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?
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« Reply #179 on: November 02, 2012, 10:28:59 PM »

aaannndd.... as for Star Wars, I'm just going to wait and see what Leland Chee has to say about the status of the Expanded Universe. He's the "keeper of the holocron" and is the person whose job at Lucasfilms is to compile the canon and continuity of the series.
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« Reply #180 on: November 02, 2012, 10:33:39 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.
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« Reply #181 on: November 02, 2012, 10:39:21 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?



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« Reply #182 on: November 02, 2012, 10:47:53 PM »

On topic:

Star Wars Episode VII-IX Details Spelled Out From Anonymous Source
http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/11/02/star-wars-episode-vii-ix-details-spelled-out-from-anonymous-source/

While it's anonymous and a rumor, I really hope it's true.
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« Reply #183 on: November 02, 2012, 10:49:17 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?
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« Reply #184 on: November 02, 2012, 10:54:09 PM »

As for the story, I read that Lucas' plans were for each trilogy to have 20 year gaps between the trilogies, so Luke would be in his 40s in these films (I guess makeup could fix the age issue). Lucas also set out a plan for a fourth trilogy as well.
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« Reply #185 on: November 02, 2012, 10:56:59 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?

Your point is completely invalid. As I said, in the first movie, when it came out, Luke & Leia were not brother and sister. When the second movie came out, they were, but again, neither knew it yet.
Like I said, your point is completely illogical and invalid. Incest is certainly not promoted or celebrated in the film. It's not a black or white issue. Incest is wrong, but incest is not promoted in the film.

In fact, if you look at the very definition of incest, it isn't "kissing", it's sexual relations between two people who are too closely related. That never happened, therefore, no incest. As I said, your logic and your argument is completely invalid.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:00:08 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #186 on: November 02, 2012, 11:07:23 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?

Your point is completely invalid. As I said, in the first movie, when it came out, Luke & Leia were not brother and sister. When the second movie came out, they were, but again, neither knew it yet.
Like I said, your point is completely illogical and invalid. Incest is certainly not promoted or celebrated in the film. It's not a black or white issue. Incest is wrong, but incest is not promoted in the film.

In fact, if you look at the very definition of incest, it isn't "kissing", it's sexual relations between two people who are too closely related. That never happened, therefore, no incest. As I said, your logic and your argument is completely invalid.

I agree with this post.
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« Reply #187 on: November 02, 2012, 11:14:03 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?

Your point is completely invalid. As I said, in the first movie, when it came out, Luke & Leia were not brother and sister. When the second movie came out, they were, but again, neither knew it yet.
Like I said, your point is completely illogical and invalid. Incest is certainly not promoted or celebrated in the film. It's not a black or white issue. Incest is wrong, but incest is not promoted in the film.

In fact, if you look at the very definition of incest, it isn't "kissing", it's sexual relations between two people who are too closely related. That never happened, therefore, no incest. As I said, your logic and your argument is completely invalid.

So, just to be perfectly straight here, you see nothing wrong with open mouthed kissing between brother and sister, so long as they don't know? It's not legally incest, after all- no naughty parts are touching (unless you consider tongues to be naughty). There's nothing even close to "sexual relations" going on there?

As for the first movie- here's something to ponder: while it is certainly true that Luke and Leia weren't brother and sister when the first movie came out (speaking outside of the movie universe), they WERE brother and sister when the second movie came out (unless Lucas originally intended Han to be the "another"- which fits in perfectly with his hack screenwriting "I've had it all planned out for years" [seriously, I just wrote it about five second ago] MO). Further, in the Special Edition Lucas is so in despair at the thought of Han shooting first that he digitally rewrites history, where merely a few snips of film are all that are required to remove the "ick" factor from this discussion. So, shooting first if the other guy has pretty much flat out stated he is about to shoot you is bad, but brother/sister make-outs are perfectly fine in Lucas's book.
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« Reply #188 on: November 02, 2012, 11:29:35 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?

Your point is completely invalid. As I said, in the first movie, when it came out, Luke & Leia were not brother and sister. When the second movie came out, they were, but again, neither knew it yet.
Like I said, your point is completely illogical and invalid. Incest is certainly not promoted or celebrated in the film. It's not a black or white issue. Incest is wrong, but incest is not promoted in the film.

In fact, if you look at the very definition of incest, it isn't "kissing", it's sexual relations between two people who are too closely related. That never happened, therefore, no incest. As I said, your logic and your argument is completely invalid.

So, just to be perfectly straight here, you see nothing wrong with open mouthed kissing between brother and sister, so long as they don't know? It's not legally incest, after all- no naughty parts are touching (unless you consider tongues to be naughty). There's nothing even close to "sexual relations" going on there?

As for the first movie- here's something to ponder: while it is certainly true that Luke and Leia weren't brother and sister when the first movie came out (speaking outside of the movie universe), they WERE brother and sister when the second movie came out (unless Lucas originally intended Han to be the "another"- which fits in perfectly with his hack screenwriting "I've had it all planned out for years" [seriously, I just wrote it about five second ago] MO). Further, in the Special Edition Lucas is so in despair at the thought of Han shooting first that he digitally rewrites history, where merely a few snips of film are all that are required to remove the "ick" factor from this discussion. So, shooting first if the other guy has pretty much flat out stated he is about to shoot you is bad, but brother/sister make-outs are perfectly fine in Lucas's book.

Again, your logic is completely flawed here. I never said that two siblings kissing is "okay", I said it is not incest, and isn't the promotion of incest. You cannot fault the two for doing so, because they didn't know the other was their sibling, what do you expect, do you expect people to not kiss until marriage? Do you fault someone for falling in love with someone, even if that other person is married, and the other person isn't aware of the marriage? Do you automatically accuse them of adultery? You are jumping to conclusions and falling into a fallacy. You have A, and you have C, but A & C doesn't equal B.

Your logic is thus:

A. Luke & Leia kiss
B. Luke & Leia don't know they are siblings
C. Incest is sex between siblings
D. Incest is wrong
E. Making out with a sibling is wrong
F. The movie promotes incest

Where you say: A + (C + D) = F where C is apparently also the definition of E, and equivalent.

You leave out factor B. Where ignorance plays a huge part in the equation. You also make an error in equating incest with making out.

Your logic just doesn't add up and makes no sense whatsoever.

My logic, on the other hand, goes like this:

A. Incest is sex between siblings (or close relatives)
B. Incest is wrong
C. Luke & Leia are siblings
D. Luke & Leia don't know they are siblings
E. Luke & Leia kiss
F. Incest hasn't been committed

(A + B) + C + D + E = F

On top of that, i'd also add that Luke & Leia are not knowingly guilty of a wrong, unless you expect people in love to withhold any physical contact at all until marriage. Maybe you'd be more suited to the Amish? Oh wait, they don't do that entirely either!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:33:28 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #189 on: November 02, 2012, 11:41:05 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?

Your point is completely invalid. As I said, in the first movie, when it came out, Luke & Leia were not brother and sister. When the second movie came out, they were, but again, neither knew it yet.
Like I said, your point is completely illogical and invalid. Incest is certainly not promoted or celebrated in the film. It's not a black or white issue. Incest is wrong, but incest is not promoted in the film.

In fact, if you look at the very definition of incest, it isn't "kissing", it's sexual relations between two people who are too closely related. That never happened, therefore, no incest. As I said, your logic and your argument is completely invalid.

So, just to be perfectly straight here, you see nothing wrong with open mouthed kissing between brother and sister, so long as they don't know? It's not legally incest, after all- no naughty parts are touching (unless you consider tongues to be naughty). There's nothing even close to "sexual relations" going on there?

As for the first movie- here's something to ponder: while it is certainly true that Luke and Leia weren't brother and sister when the first movie came out (speaking outside of the movie universe), they WERE brother and sister when the second movie came out (unless Lucas originally intended Han to be the "another"- which fits in perfectly with his hack screenwriting "I've had it all planned out for years" [seriously, I just wrote it about five second ago] MO). Further, in the Special Edition Lucas is so in despair at the thought of Han shooting first that he digitally rewrites history, where merely a few snips of film are all that are required to remove the "ick" factor from this discussion. So, shooting first if the other guy has pretty much flat out stated he is about to shoot you is bad, but brother/sister make-outs are perfectly fine in Lucas's book.

Again, your logic is completely flawed here. I never said that two siblings kissing is "okay", I said it is not incest, and isn't the promotion of incest. You cannot fault the two for doing so, because they didn't know the other was their sibling, what do you expect, do you expect people to not kiss until marriage? Do you fault someone for falling in love with someone, even if that other person is married, and the other person isn't aware of the marriage? Do you automatically accuse them of adultery? You are jumping to conclusions and falling into a fallacy. You have A, and you have C, but A & C doesn't equal B.

Your logic is thus:

A. Luke & Leia kiss
B. Luke & Leia don't know they are siblings
C. Incest is sex between siblings
D. Incest is wrong
E. Making out with a sibling is wrong
F. The movie promotes incest

Where you say: A + (C + D) = F where C is apparently also the definition of E, and equivalent.

You leave out factor B. Where ignorance plays a huge part in the equation. You also make an error in equating incest with making out.

Your logic just doesn't add up and makes no sense whatsoever.
Your assumption is that my equation of C with E is incorrect which I might grant you now (though I would at least consider brothers and sisters making out to be attempted incest), but my 3 year old self whose first clear memory is seeing Jedi in the theater would have thought nothing of the actual naughty parts, however he knew quite clearly that E (to the extent of making out, subtracting the sibling) is something only Mommy and Daddy do, would beg to disagree. I leave out factor B because factor B is irrelevant, especially in the context of classical literature- factor B did not stop Oedipus from gouging out his eyes when he found out what he had been up to, nor (to put it more closely to your private interpretation of classical) Arthur paying the price for siring Mordred upon his sister. You also leave out the true factor F that leads to G (your F)- namely that Lucas has seen no problem revising those portions of the trilogy he currently finds morally questionable (Han shooting first), yet he leaves in not one but two make out sessions between brother and sister.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:43:15 PM by FormerReformer » Logged

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« Reply #190 on: November 02, 2012, 11:54:05 PM »

Former, you are over-convoluting the problem.  If princess Leia were your sister, would you make out with her?  I know I would.  This really is a straight forward question.  Either A, you would make out with her, or B, you are dishonest, or C, you play for the other team, and I don't mean the Dark Side.  So really, how can you judge either Luke or Devin?
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« Reply #191 on: November 02, 2012, 11:54:44 PM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?

Your point is completely invalid. As I said, in the first movie, when it came out, Luke & Leia were not brother and sister. When the second movie came out, they were, but again, neither knew it yet.
Like I said, your point is completely illogical and invalid. Incest is certainly not promoted or celebrated in the film. It's not a black or white issue. Incest is wrong, but incest is not promoted in the film.

In fact, if you look at the very definition of incest, it isn't "kissing", it's sexual relations between two people who are too closely related. That never happened, therefore, no incest. As I said, your logic and your argument is completely invalid.

So, just to be perfectly straight here, you see nothing wrong with open mouthed kissing between brother and sister, so long as they don't know? It's not legally incest, after all- no naughty parts are touching (unless you consider tongues to be naughty). There's nothing even close to "sexual relations" going on there?

As for the first movie- here's something to ponder: while it is certainly true that Luke and Leia weren't brother and sister when the first movie came out (speaking outside of the movie universe), they WERE brother and sister when the second movie came out (unless Lucas originally intended Han to be the "another"- which fits in perfectly with his hack screenwriting "I've had it all planned out for years" [seriously, I just wrote it about five second ago] MO). Further, in the Special Edition Lucas is so in despair at the thought of Han shooting first that he digitally rewrites history, where merely a few snips of film are all that are required to remove the "ick" factor from this discussion. So, shooting first if the other guy has pretty much flat out stated he is about to shoot you is bad, but brother/sister make-outs are perfectly fine in Lucas's book.

Again, your logic is completely flawed here. I never said that two siblings kissing is "okay", I said it is not incest, and isn't the promotion of incest. You cannot fault the two for doing so, because they didn't know the other was their sibling, what do you expect, do you expect people to not kiss until marriage? Do you fault someone for falling in love with someone, even if that other person is married, and the other person isn't aware of the marriage? Do you automatically accuse them of adultery? You are jumping to conclusions and falling into a fallacy. You have A, and you have C, but A & C doesn't equal B.

Your logic is thus:

A. Luke & Leia kiss
B. Luke & Leia don't know they are siblings
C. Incest is sex between siblings
D. Incest is wrong
E. Making out with a sibling is wrong
F. The movie promotes incest

Where you say: A + (C + D) = F where C is apparently also the definition of E, and equivalent.

You leave out factor B. Where ignorance plays a huge part in the equation. You also make an error in equating incest with making out.

Your logic just doesn't add up and makes no sense whatsoever.
Your assumption is that my equation of C with E is incorrect which I might grant you now (though I would at least consider brothers and sisters making out to be attempted incest), but my 3 year old self whose first clear memory is seeing Jedi in the theater would have thought nothing of the actual naughty parts, however he knew quite clearly that E (to the extent of making out, subtracting the sibling) is something only Mommy and Daddy do, would beg to disagree. I leave out factor B because factor B is irrelevant, especially in the context of classical literature- factor B did not stop Oedipus from gouging out his eyes when he found out what he had been up to, nor (to put it more closely to your private interpretation of classical) Arthur paying the price for siring Mordred upon his sister. You also leave out the true factor F that leads to G (your F)- namely that Lucas has seen no problem revising those portions of the trilogy he currently finds morally questionable (Han shooting first), yet he leaves in not one but two make out sessions between brother and sister.

No, again as I said, you cannot find complete fault with them, and cannot ignore the fact that they don't know each other is their sibling. I'm not talking about, nor care about classical literature, I'm talking about real morality here and modern norms and practices.

There are many cases out there of people who marry and later find out they are actually brother and sister, and were adopted by different families with different last names and all. Do we automatically condemn them unconditionally for incest? No, we recognize that the fault doesn't lay with them. Now, if they didn't separate, then it would become their sin.

Same thing for this story. Again, Luke & Leia never had sex, therefore, incest isn't committed, and your comparison with "classical literature" is not consistent, because in those cases, incest is actually committed.

Also, as I'm saying, you shouldn't find anything morally abhorrent about what happened, because neither of them knew and neither of them did something sinful. In fact, as soon as Luke found out, he stepped back and treated her as a sister. There, however, would have been a wrong if he hadn't broken it off once he knew.

Like I said, would you prefer that people courting each other should even refrain from kissing until they are married?

As for Han shooting first, it wasn't that it was morally objectionable for Han to shoot first, Lucas edited it because it didn't fit the narrative of Han he wanted, and it showed Han as being too cold-blooded. If it fit the narrative he wanted to tell, he would have kept it in there, it's morality is irrelevant except in however Lucas wanted to show Han. Did he want Han to be a cold-blooded killer, or did he want him to be a bad boy who was really a good person at heart?

For Luke & Leia and their "kissing", leaving it in shows their innocence and the consequence of their father's fall to the dark side. It shows they are two innocent teenagers/early 20ers who are oblivious to the fact that they are siblings.  It doesn't show them as being immoral, or as "tainted" in some way.

Things are not as black and white as you seem to want them to be, there is a lot of grey out there.
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« Reply #192 on: November 02, 2012, 11:57:05 PM »

Former, you are over-convoluting the problem.  If princess Leia were your sister, would you make out with her?  I know I would.  This really is a straight forward question.  Either A, you would make out with her, or B, you are dishonest, or C, you play for the other team, and I don't mean the Dark Side.  So really, how can you judge either Luke or Devin?
HA...

Let's be serious though, the better way to ask the question is: If Leia wasn't your sister, would you kiss her? If you fell in love with her and kissed her, but found out later she was your sister, what would you do? Did you do anything wrong? You didn't know she was your sister, and neither did she.
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« Reply #193 on: November 03, 2012, 12:19:27 AM »

Can we get back on topic please?

As George Lucas himself would surely say, thanks to Star Wars being the core essence of Joseph Campell's theories on myth, everything is on topic.

Oh, and 88Devin, if you have a problem with Shakespeare's licentiousness, why are you so desperately defending a series that promoted incest? Or did Lucas edit that out of the latest special edition?

It didn't promote incest. Luke kissed Leia in the first film, prior to it being worked out that they were brother & sister. With Han Solo, you had the drama between the three. Han was going to be killed off in 2, leaving  Luke with the princess. However, it was worked out that Luke & Leia were brother & sister (therefore couldn't be together) and the fans loved Han Solo so much Lucas ended up having to include him in ROTJ. The fact Han Solo lived was due to the pressure of the fans on Lucas. Also, incest would imply something happened between Luke & Leia, which nothing did, and in fact it was "broken off" once they found out.

So- according to you, full on making out with your sister is ok so long as (a) you didn't know it was your sister; (b) the director/screenwriter didn't know it was your sister; and (c) she only did it the second time to make that lovable rogue jealous? So long as these requirements are met, and "nothing happened" (other than, you know, making out) everything is fine?

Your point is completely invalid. As I said, in the first movie, when it came out, Luke & Leia were not brother and sister. When the second movie came out, they were, but again, neither knew it yet.
Like I said, your point is completely illogical and invalid. Incest is certainly not promoted or celebrated in the film. It's not a black or white issue. Incest is wrong, but incest is not promoted in the film.

In fact, if you look at the very definition of incest, it isn't "kissing", it's sexual relations between two people who are too closely related. That never happened, therefore, no incest. As I said, your logic and your argument is completely invalid.

So, just to be perfectly straight here, you see nothing wrong with open mouthed kissing between brother and sister, so long as they don't know? It's not legally incest, after all- no naughty parts are touching (unless you consider tongues to be naughty). There's nothing even close to "sexual relations" going on there?

As for the first movie- here's something to ponder: while it is certainly true that Luke and Leia weren't brother and sister when the first movie came out (speaking outside of the movie universe), they WERE brother and sister when the second movie came out (unless Lucas originally intended Han to be the "another"- which fits in perfectly with his hack screenwriting "I've had it all planned out for years" [seriously, I just wrote it about five second ago] MO). Further, in the Special Edition Lucas is so in despair at the thought of Han shooting first that he digitally rewrites history, where merely a few snips of film are all that are required to remove the "ick" factor from this discussion. So, shooting first if the other guy has pretty much flat out stated he is about to shoot you is bad, but brother/sister make-outs are perfectly fine in Lucas's book.

Again, your logic is completely flawed here. I never said that two siblings kissing is "okay", I said it is not incest, and isn't the promotion of incest. You cannot fault the two for doing so, because they didn't know the other was their sibling, what do you expect, do you expect people to not kiss until marriage? Do you fault someone for falling in love with someone, even if that other person is married, and the other person isn't aware of the marriage? Do you automatically accuse them of adultery? You are jumping to conclusions and falling into a fallacy. You have A, and you have C, but A & C doesn't equal B.

Your logic is thus:

A. Luke & Leia kiss
B. Luke & Leia don't know they are siblings
C. Incest is sex between siblings
D. Incest is wrong
E. Making out with a sibling is wrong
F. The movie promotes incest

Where you say: A + (C + D) = F where C is apparently also the definition of E, and equivalent.

You leave out factor B. Where ignorance plays a huge part in the equation. You also make an error in equating incest with making out.

Your logic just doesn't add up and makes no sense whatsoever.
Your assumption is that my equation of C with E is incorrect which I might grant you now (though I would at least consider brothers and sisters making out to be attempted incest), but my 3 year old self whose first clear memory is seeing Jedi in the theater would have thought nothing of the actual naughty parts, however he knew quite clearly that E (to the extent of making out, subtracting the sibling) is something only Mommy and Daddy do, would beg to disagree. I leave out factor B because factor B is irrelevant, especially in the context of classical literature- factor B did not stop Oedipus from gouging out his eyes when he found out what he had been up to, nor (to put it more closely to your private interpretation of classical) Arthur paying the price for siring Mordred upon his sister. You also leave out the true factor F that leads to G (your F)- namely that Lucas has seen no problem revising those portions of the trilogy he currently finds morally questionable (Han shooting first), yet he leaves in not one but two make out sessions between brother and sister.

No, again as I said, you cannot find complete fault with them, and cannot ignore the fact that they don't know each other is their sibling. I'm not talking about, nor care about classical literature, I'm talking about real morality here and modern norms and practices.

There are many cases out there of people who marry and later find out they are actually brother and sister, and were adopted by different families with different last names and all. Do we automatically condemn them unconditionally for incest? No, we recognize that the fault doesn't lay with them. Now, if they didn't separate, then it would become their sin.

Same thing for this story. Again, Luke & Leia never had sex, therefore, incest isn't committed, and your comparison with "classical literature" is not consistent, because in those cases, incest is actually committed.

Also, as I'm saying, you shouldn't find anything morally abhorrent about what happened, because neither of them knew and neither of them did something sinful. In fact, as soon as Luke found out, he stepped back and treated her as a sister. There, however, would have been a wrong if he hadn't broken it off once he knew.

Like I said, would you prefer that people courting each other should even refrain from kissing until they are married?

As for Han shooting first, it wasn't that it was morally objectionable for Han to shoot first, Lucas edited it because it didn't fit the narrative of Han he wanted, and it showed Han as being too cold-blooded. If it fit the narrative he wanted to tell, he would have kept it in there, it's morality is irrelevant except in however Lucas wanted to show Han. Did he want Han to be a cold-blooded killer, or did he want him to be a bad boy who was really a good person at heart?

For Luke & Leia and their "kissing", leaving it in shows their innocence and the consequence of their father's fall to the dark side. It shows they are two innocent teenagers/early 20ers who are oblivious to the fact that they are siblings.  It doesn't show them as being immoral, or as "tainted" in some way.

Things are not as black and white as you seem to want them to be, there is a lot of grey out there.

So Lucas can have as much grey as he wants, but Shakespeare is abhorrent because he enjoyed puns based on naughty parts?

And why did you put "kissing" in quotes? There's no need for quotations there, "kissing" is quite clearly what they were doing.

I wouldn't call a few isolated incidents "many cases". Some say that would be sloppy writing [citation needed].

In a PG movie, kissing is as close as we're going to get to sexual relations. I suppose we should congratulate Lucas' restraint that we can even have this debate. Still, the very playbook Lucas has claimed to be playing from (myth cycles) demands that unwitting incest meet its tragic fate. Replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen at the end of Jedi does not count- the tragic fate should be upon the offenders, not the audience.

As for people refraining from kissing (open mouth full on make out kissing, not a quick peck in greeting) before they're married- I'm not a priest, bishop, nor canonist, so it's not my call. But I think in the first millennium of the Church it would have probably been considered a sexual act.

I'm not even going to touch the Han part- Lucas' revisionism can be debated between here and judgement day. 1977 Lucas had no problems with Han both shooting first and being a good person at heart, as evidenced by "You're all clear, kid, now let's blow this thing so we can go home!" A generation of Star Wars fans had no problem reconciling Han the Cold Blooded Killer with Han the Redeemed Hero. 1997 Lucas the Hack apparently had a problem with it- which shows a moral shift on his part: 1977 GL believed Han could be redeemed, 1997 believed Han had to be perfect from the start (but brother/sister makeouts okay).
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« Reply #194 on: November 03, 2012, 12:24:52 AM »

Former, you are over-convoluting the problem.  If princess Leia were your sister, would you make out with her?  I know I would.  This really is a straight forward question.  Either A, you would make out with her, or B, you are dishonest, or C, you play for the other team, and I don't mean the Dark Side.  So really, how can you judge either Luke or Devin?

Sister? No- she wasn't that hot til the slave girl costume anyway. Cousin? Seriously tempted. 2nd cousin? Almost definitely.

I don't know if that answer has me playing for "the other team"- I've been pretty sure which team I've been on since the first time I made it 20 minutes into Jedi and saw the slave girl costume (but then I was also fairly certain that Carrie Fisher wasn't my sister).
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« Reply #195 on: November 03, 2012, 06:15:32 AM »

Quote
Sister? No- she wasn't that hot til the slave girl costume anyway. Cousin? Seriously tempted. 2nd cousin? Almost definitely
The greatest truth of Star Wars.

I do miss my old nerd arguments....arguing familial ethics using a science fiction series.......

PP
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« Reply #196 on: November 03, 2012, 06:28:00 AM »

I guess Disney really wanted a good Sci-Fi franchise, after John Carter bombed, even though I thought it was a fairly decent movie.


I liked it too. Not sure why it bombed.

Probably because they didn't spend 45 minutes of the movie with people having sex or doing drugs.
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« Reply #197 on: November 03, 2012, 07:10:05 AM »

I guess Disney really wanted a good Sci-Fi franchise, after John Carter bombed, even though I thought it was a fairly decent movie.


I liked it too. Not sure why it bombed.

Probably because they didn't spend 45 minutes of the movie with people having sex or doing drugs.
It was an unexpected surprise for me given I had low expectations.
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« Reply #198 on: November 03, 2012, 07:12:02 AM »

Too much argument about the incest thing.

Yes, if they didn't know they were siblings, they even didn't know each they had a sibling how could they possibly imagine that? They did not grow up together and met for the first time as two post-adolescent young adults. There's no such thing as "sibling alert", not even with the Force.

The movie portrayed it with no support for incest. When they found out they stopped immediately. Yes just "ooops". They would be promoting incest if they actually invested in their initial mutual attraction after that. The dry cut in their attraction shows that script writers had no intention of even glamourizing the thing, since we know pretty well that if such a freak accident happened in real life those feelings wouldn't be that easy and simple to solve.

And although probably noone here went through anything like that, who has never committed a sin without knowing it? I particularly have said things I didn't know were offensive, I took decisions I though were right but weren't. Star Wars showed the ideal way to deal with this: repent (it doesn't have to be a drama novel, just change your ways) and move on.


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« Reply #199 on: November 03, 2012, 08:27:17 AM »

Too much argument about the incest thing.

Yes, if they didn't know they were siblings, they even didn't know each they had a sibling how could they possibly imagine that? They did not grow up together and met for the first time as two post-adolescent young adults. There's no such thing as "sibling alert", not even with the Force.

The movie portrayed it with no support for incest. When