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Offline stella1990

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how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« on: December 15, 2015, 09:38:21 AM »
In your everyday life?????????

I'm not talking about monks or nuns, just lay people.

How do you connect with Him???? Feel Him????

When I have spiritual doubts about catholicism and I feel scared about leaving this church I think in Jesus. I imagine Jesus as I see Him in some protestant postcards: Him with people, with kids, etc... and I feel good. That gives me a lot of consolation.


Offline WPM

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2015, 11:51:44 AM »
Connection to the Divine

Offline Iconodule

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2015, 12:03:46 PM »
In your everyday life?????????

I'm not talking about monks or nuns, just lay people.

How do you connect with Him???? Feel Him????

When I have spiritual doubts about catholicism and I feel scared about leaving this church I think in Jesus. I imagine Jesus as I see Him in some protestant postcards: Him with people, with kids, etc... and I feel good. That gives me a lot of consolation.

Of course we know that Jesus is present everywhere- it's remaining conscious of that that can be hard for us. For Orthodox, the presence of Jesus is closely connected with the sacramental life- baptism and communion, for instance, engraft us into Christ and instill him in us in a direct, personal way. As we go about our daily lives, we are advised to be constantly mindful of God- whether through symbolic acts like wearing a cross or crossing ourselves- or through prayer and meditation on commandments. The most popular practice of mindfulness of God is the Jesus prayer, which is short and can be repeated any time of day.

Imagining Jesus in our presence, like we see in pictures, can be OK and comforting, but we should be careful that we are not fabricating an idol, and remember that Jesus's presence is quite real and not a product of imagination.

Offline Indocern

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2015, 12:26:09 PM »
In your everyday life?????????

I'm not talking about monks or nuns, just lay people.

How do you connect with Him???? Feel Him????

When I have spiritual doubts about catholicism and I feel scared about leaving this church I think in Jesus. I imagine Jesus as I see Him in some protestant postcards: Him with people, with kids, etc... and I feel good. That gives me a lot of consolation.

We connect to Him with prayers, to most holy Mother of God, to Jesus Christ and with sign of the cross before the icons.

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2015, 03:12:03 PM »
Thanks for all the answers... :)

I know that you connect to Him and through prayer , crossing, etc.

Do you feel his presence?????????????? Do you feel protected??????? As a child that feels protected by his parents, for example?????

I ask about "feelings" because in RC traditionalism there is a lot about "reason" and almost none about "feeling".... and I believe in Orthodoxy you feel more than you rationalize God. And I think its wonderful. How are we suposed to rationalize God? It's imposible.

Offline Indocern

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2015, 03:19:17 PM »
Thanks for all the answers... :)

I know that you connect to Him and through prayer , crossing, etc.

Do you feel his presence?????????????? Do you feel protected??????? As a child that feels protected by his parents, for example?????

I ask about "feelings" because in RC traditionalism there is a lot about "reason" and almost none about "feeling".... and I believe in Orthodoxy you feel more than you rationalize God. And I think its wonderful. How are we suposed to rationalize God? It's imposible.

Yes with the thought of Him I feel protected and peaceful. I trust to Him.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 03:20:57 PM by Indocern »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2015, 03:28:17 PM »
Mindfulness of God through prayer is tied to mindfulness of his presence. If we aren't mindful of his presence, then our prayer is distracted in some way. Of course we can feel protected by God, and in the course of spiritual life, warm feelings will arise, but dry periods will also come. If we cling to feelings we can be led astray by delusion. Investing oneself in feelings can be just as detrimental as an obsession with logical constructs. We should strive to know the presence of God and he will reveal himself within and around us, but we shouldn't get carried away with sentimentality. Clinging to "good feelings" can prevent us from recognizing the real thing when it's in front of us.

 God is with us whether we are conscious of it or not, so when we do recognize this presence, we should try our best to apprehend him as he really is and not go chasing after good feelings and fantasies. And this entails sometimes going through difficult periods where we experience doubt, boredom, etc.

So to answer your question- do I feel protected? Do I feel God's presence? Sometimes I do. I thank God for those moments where he allows me to peer more deeply into his reality. Other times though I can feel isolated and spiritually dry; in such moments it's important for me to keep looking for him, but not try to artificially recreate those good experiences I had before by imagining things.

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 03:34:56 PM »
Mindfulness of God through prayer is tied to mindfulness of his presence. If we aren't mindful of his presence, then our prayer is distracted in some way. Of course we can feel protected by God, and in the course of spiritual life, warm feelings will arise, but dry periods will also come. If we cling to feelings we can be led astray by delusion. Investing oneself in feelings can be just as detrimental as an obsession with logical constructs. We should strive to know the presence of God and he will reveal himself within and around us, but we shouldn't get carried away with sentimentality. Clinging to "good feelings" can prevent us from recognizing the real thing when it's in front of us.

 God is with us whether we are conscious of it or not, so when we do recognize this presence, we should try our best to apprehend him as he really is and not go chasing after good feelings and fantasies. And this entails sometimes going through difficult periods where we experience doubt, boredom, etc.

So to answer your question- do I feel protected? Do I feel God's presence? Sometimes I do. I thank God for those moments where he allows me to peer more deeply into his reality. Other times though I can feel isolated and spiritually dry; in such moments it's important for me to keep looking for him, but not try to artificially recreate those good experiences I had before by imagining things.

I understand.
I know that we must experience "dry periods".
But if you can feel Him, I think it's wonderful even if its not all the time.

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2015, 03:36:37 PM »
Thanks for all the answers... :)

I know that you connect to Him and through prayer , crossing, etc.

Do you feel his presence?????????????? Do you feel protected??????? As a child that feels protected by his parents, for example?????

I ask about "feelings" because in RC traditionalism there is a lot about "reason" and almost none about "feeling".... and I believe in Orthodoxy you feel more than you rationalize God. And I think its wonderful. How are we suposed to rationalize God? It's imposible.

Yes with the thought of Him I feel protected and peaceful. I trust to Him.

I believe that is the most important thing in life: trusting God and feeling protected.
I really envy orthodox people :)

Offline Iconodule

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2015, 03:41:46 PM »
Not that I don't want you to come over, but you might want to give your Catholic tradition a fairer shake before you dismiss the whole thing as cold rationalism.

Offline Indocern

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2015, 03:43:41 PM »
Thanks for all the answers... :)

I know that you connect to Him and through prayer , crossing, etc.

Do you feel his presence?????????????? Do you feel protected??????? As a child that feels protected by his parents, for example?????

I ask about "feelings" because in RC traditionalism there is a lot about "reason" and almost none about "feeling".... and I believe in Orthodoxy you feel more than you rationalize God. And I think its wonderful. How are we suposed to rationalize God? It's imposible.

Yes with the thought of Him I feel protected and peaceful. I trust to Him.

I believe that is the most important thing in life: trusting God and feeling protected.
I really envy orthodox people :)

Thank you.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2015, 05:36:17 PM »
In your everyday life?????????

I'm not talking about monks or nuns, just lay people.

How do you connect with Him???? Feel Him????

When I have spiritual doubts about catholicism and I feel scared about leaving this church I think in Jesus. I imagine Jesus as I see Him in some protestant postcards: Him with people, with kids, etc... and I feel good. That gives me a lot of consolation.

Christ is our Savior. When life is too horrifying, or if we are helpless, we can always find relief praying, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me."

Christ is our Lord and Head. Our churches are arranged by him, our worship is from him and to him. We sing the Psalms that are his prophesies of himself, and yet speak of us and our experience too and touch our hearts.

Christ is our Brother and Model. We know he was tempted and suffered just as we. He showed us the path away from fear and into love, even thru death.

Christ is our Teacher. We read the Gospels, study their truths, and, most importantly, practice them daily.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Bryan Paul

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2015, 05:51:44 PM »
I ask about "feelings" because in RC traditionalism there is a lot about "reason" and almost none about "feeling".... and I believe in Orthodoxy you feel more than you rationalize God. And I think its wonderful. How are we suposed to rationalize God? It's imposible.
That's funny because when I viewed your original post, I immediately thought of the RC emphasis on identifying with Christ's suffering (e.g. Stations of the Cross). To me, that's a very feeling-centric sort of thing. (Not the same as feeling his presence though, I guess.)

I grew up Protestant, and there was a lot of emphasis on feeling the presence of Jesus and having a personal relationship with Him. I never could quite make that work, and it always felt like I was making up an imaginary friend.

Now that I'm Orthodox, I don't depend on feelings. It's great when I have them, but they're not the focus. I may or may not "feel" Jesus, but I experience Him. I experience Him when I receive his body and blood. I experience him when I want a snack but remember it's a fasting day. I experience him when I don't want to get up to say my prayer rule, but I do anyway. I hope this makes sense.
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2015, 07:16:43 AM »
Not that I don't want you to come over, but you might want to give your Catholic tradition a fairer shake before you dismiss the whole thing as cold rationalism.

I had a very bad experience.
I believe that if I continue to listen or read to catholic traditionalists I will get sick and will end in psychiatric ward. Really.

Everytime I listen to their common places I feel like I wanna vomit.

I dont have anything agains catholic tradition.... its not the same as catholic traditionalists. Catholic  traditionalists believe they have the tradition... but really????? I dont believe that. And there is no way to go back in a time machine to 1950.

I have to be realist. There are two options:

1. Going to Novus Ordo only to confess and take communion, maybe doing some social works and thats all.
2. Going to Orthodoxy.

Option 3. (going with catholic traditionalists) its not an option for me anymore. I will not find Jesus there... Maybe Im wrong and Im not seeing the truth but I have seen that they only talk about chastisements, Fatima, skirts and dresses, veils, Vatican 2, apocalipticism, apparitions, the bad people that goes to Novus Ordo (only whores and people who is in birth control), communism over America, etc..., praying 3 rosaries a day, praying a novena to X saint, etc etc etc etc etc etc


Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2015, 07:26:22 AM »
I ask about "feelings" because in RC traditionalism there is a lot about "reason" and almost none about "feeling".... and I believe in Orthodoxy you feel more than you rationalize God. And I think its wonderful. How are we suposed to rationalize God? It's imposible.
That's funny because when I viewed your original post, I immediately thought of the RC emphasis on identifying with Christ's suffering (e.g. Stations of the Cross). To me, that's a very feeling-centric sort of thing. (Not the same as feeling his presence though, I guess.)

I grew up Protestant, and there was a lot of emphasis on feeling the presence of Jesus and having a personal relationship with Him. I never could quite make that work, and it always felt like I was making up an imaginary friend.

Now that I'm Orthodox, I don't depend on feelings. It's great when I have them, but they're not the focus. I may or may not "feel" Jesus, but I experience Him. I experience Him when I receive his body and blood. I experience him when I want a snack but remember it's a fasting day. I experience him when I don't want to get up to say my prayer rule, but I do anyway. I hope this makes sense.

Thats the point.

Maybe I dont find the words, but I believe this is the thing that I want to find: to experience Jesus....

The rad trad view is like  "you have to believe in Jesus because if not you will rot in hell (and if we were in power we would burn you at stake , you disgusting heretic rat!!!!!!!. Say the 3 rosaries a day, memorize the 1917 cathecism, PRAY, PAY AND OBEY, and dont make any silly questions anymore. Oh, and dont dare you want to feel or experience ANYTHING from God in your life because the only path to God is spiritual dryness...in case you commit mortal sin you have to run to confessionary and if you die without confession you will burn in hell for all eternity..... so maybe its good for you to buy a house and find a job near our chapel..."




Offline mike

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2015, 07:34:24 AM »
Quote from: stella1990 link=topic=67346.msg1362123#msg1362123
they only talk about chastisements, Fatima, skirts and dresses, veils, Vatican 2, apocalipticism, apparitions, the bad people that goes to Novus Ordo (only whores and people who is in birth control), communism over America, etc..., praying 3 rosaries a day, praying a novena to X saint, etc etc etc etc etc etc

You can't convert basing on comparision of what was worst in your former religion and best in the new one. You have to be aware you may find exactly the same attitude in Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 07:34:54 AM by mike »
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 07:35:47 AM »
Quote
1. Going to Novus Ordo only to confess and take communion, maybe doing some social works and thats all.
Novus ordo look to me more like a mockery of a mass than a real mass..


Quote
Option 3. (going with catholic traditionalists) its not an option for me anymore. I will not find Jesus there... Maybe Im wrong and Im not seeing the truth but I have seen that they only talk about chastisements, Fatima, skirts and dresses, veils, Vatican 2, apocalipticism, apparitions, the bad people that goes to Novus Ordo (only whores and people who is in birth control), communism over America, etc..., praying 3 rosaries a day, praying a novena to X saint, etc etc etc etc etc etc
Yes their, slanderous self-righteous sects and their vain scholasticism can make you pretaste the fire of hell already in this life, just by listening to them.... then demons come to harass you. The opposite is true when you listen to an orthodox saint who is full of grace, your soul receive peace and joy, as i said before - know them by their fruits.


Quote
Quote
2. Going to Orthodoxy.
If you decide to come to orthodoxy but cannot understand the language of the liturgy, ask people there to give you translations/explainations so you can fully participate into the Divine Liturgy and know what is going on so you can receive as much blessings and Grace as possible.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 07:36:26 AM by Vanhyo »

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 07:48:25 AM »
I was just thinking and YES, I have problems with catholic "tradition"...

1. I dont believe that God is some kind of bureaucrat that will look at our "papers"... and will say: "Oh, you were former RC but converted to Orthodoxy ???? you lived a good life, tried to be a good Christian. You were a good wife and mother, teached your family to be good Christians... you took care of your neighbour, you visited hospitals, jails, feeded the hungry....prayed a lot.... etc... good... but do you know???? you left RC for OC so you're damned and you will go to hell...NEXT!!!!"....

2. I hate to read about RC crimes... I know that all churches had mistakes... but when I listen about the sack of Constantinople... my blood boils... and this guys did that because they believe they were fighting "those hellish schismatics"... they believed they were doing God's will... because OC were God's enemy... and "we have to forgive our personal enemies but not the Lord's one"...Oh my God. I dont believe I haver the right to burn people at stake, for God's sake...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
3. I don't believe in Papal Infallibility anymore.... Cath trads bite their own tails... because if all Vatican 2 Popes are herethics.... they could be not Popes at all... so they justify this with Fatima, La Salette, and every private apparition they can pick and make faith dogmas...

4. I dont believe that all Protestants are damned... a lot of them are more christian and love God than the average catholic...

5.etc....

So yes, I have problems with catholic traditionalists and catholic tradition ALSO

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2015, 07:53:10 AM »

Yes their, slanderous self-righteous sects and their vain scholasticism can make you pretaste the fire of hell already in this life, just by listening to them.... then demons come to harass you. The opposite is true when you listen to an orthodox saint who is full of grace, your soul receive peace and joy, as i said before - know them by their fruits.

If you decide to come to orthodoxy but cannot understand the language of the liturgy, ask people there to give you translations/explainations so you can fully participate into the Divine Liturgy and know what is going on so you can receive as much blessings and Grace as possible.

I believe you could be right... because I try to think in Jesus... the Blessed Virgin/Theotokos... but I feel scared, I feel panic about Fatima and chastisements everywhere... burning in hell for all eternity... and maybe that is demon harassment...

I will go to DL today. Here in my city we have two Antiochian parishes, one makes services in arab and the other in spanish. I will go to the last one, so there is no problem at all. Priest sings wonderful.


Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2015, 07:58:34 AM »
Quote from: stella1990 link=topic=67346.msg1362123#msg1362123
they only talk about chastisements, Fatima, skirts and dresses, veils, Vatican 2, apocalipticism, apparitions, the bad people that goes to Novus Ordo (only whores and people who is in birth control), communism over America, etc..., praying 3 rosaries a day, praying a novena to X saint, etc etc etc etc etc etc

You can't convert basing on comparision of what was worst in your former religion and best in the new one. You have to be aware you may find exactly the same attitude in Orthodoxy.

That's true and I apreciate your post.

But one thing is having crazy lay people around you at parish... (crazy people are everywhere, in all churches...every protestant-catholic-orthodox parish has its own creepy guys that scares the others) and other is having crazy PRIESTS also...

Maybe in Orthodoxy there are some extremists priests also... talking about chastisements... about an angry God... I'm no expert in Orthodoxy... so I don't know... but the orthodox priest that I know is not a crazy priest at all... he says that we must avoid sin (of course), that we must be good christians... but he doesnt says creepy things all the time...

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 08:34:13 AM »
Maybe in Orthodoxy there are some extremists priests also... talking about chastisements... about an angry God... I'm no expert in Orthodoxy... so I don't know... but the orthodox priest that I know is not a crazy priest at all...

That's good. Unfortunately I can't tell that about all the priests I know.
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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 10:31:50 AM »
Stella, if you love the Orthodox Church for the sake of Christ, then by all means, come on in. Like Mike, though, I just want to make sure you're aware that you'll find a lot of the same problems here as where you're coming from. That includes parishioners who don't share your zeal, corrupt and crazy clergy, rationalism and over-intellectualization of the faith (even if it's peppered with words like "mystical", "empirical", "ascetic," etc.), and in some quarters even a crushing legalism. A prime example would be the Old Calendarist movement and also milder zealotry around enforcing canons. There are even "rules" set up which have no apparent basis in any canonical tradition. In the Russian church, for instance, there are many who are certain that one cannot take communion on a Sunday without attending vespers and confession on the previous night and then praying two canons, an akathist, and an order of preparation for communion at home. I'm sure the possibility of this stuff has occurred to you, I just want to make sure you're aware that, while we may be the Church, we have plenty of our own human problems. 

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 12:59:15 PM »
Stella, if you love the Orthodox Church for the sake of Christ, then by all means, come on in. Like Mike, though, I just want to make sure you're aware that you'll find a lot of the same problems here as where you're coming from. That includes parishioners who don't share your zeal, corrupt and crazy clergy, rationalism and over-intellectualization of the faith (even if it's peppered with words like "mystical", "empirical", "ascetic," etc.), and in some quarters even a crushing legalism. A prime example would be the Old Calendarist movement and also milder zealotry around enforcing canons. There are even "rules" set up which have no apparent basis in any canonical tradition. In the Russian church, for instance, there are many who are certain that one cannot take communion on a Sunday without attending vespers and confession on the previous night and then praying two canons, an akathist, and an order of preparation for communion at home. I'm sure the possibility of this stuff has occurred to you, I just want to make sure you're aware that, while we may be the Church, we have plenty of our own human problems.

When I started attending an Orthodox parish, I found that all the people from my old church were already there.  ;)
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 04:45:28 PM »
Stella, if you love the Orthodox Church for the sake of Christ, then by all means, come on in. Like Mike, though, I just want to make sure you're aware that you'll find a lot of the same problems here as where you're coming from. That includes parishioners who don't share your zeal, corrupt and crazy clergy, rationalism and over-intellectualization of the faith (even if it's peppered with words like "mystical", "empirical", "ascetic," etc.), and in some quarters even a crushing legalism. A prime example would be the Old Calendarist movement and also milder zealotry around enforcing canons. There are even "rules" set up which have no apparent basis in any canonical tradition. In the Russian church, for instance, there are many who are certain that one cannot take communion on a Sunday without attending vespers and confession on the previous night and then praying two canons, an akathist, and an order of preparation for communion at home. I'm sure the possibility of this stuff has occurred to you, I just want to make sure you're aware that, while we may be the Church, we have plenty of our own human problems.

Thank you very much...
I think this speaks good of you (recognizing there are problems also in OC). One thing that made me suspect about trad catholic priest was that he started to deny that there were problems at trad environments. He started to deny that there were some crazy people talking some crazy stuff. He could say "yes, we have some weird people but there are weird ones in every place, you know". But he deny all, as if trads were all perfects.

So I apreciate your post and your honest views. That's very important for me in this moment.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 04:46:19 PM by stella1990 »

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2015, 05:16:30 PM »
While I am sympathetic to the comparisons with Roman Catholicism that the OP will naturally make in her situation, I would like to remind all members of the forum of a few things:

1.  Faith Issues is for the discussion of topics related to Orthodoxy theology and practice.  It is not the place for an extended discussion of Roman Catholic topics.  That can be done elsewhere in the public and private fora.   

2.  Only members of those communions which, for the forum's purposes, are grouped under the category "Orthodox" are allowed to post freely in this section.  All others are considered non-Orthodox and the rules are a little more strict regarding the degree to which they may participate, though they are by no means excluded. 

3.  The rules prohibit proselytising to non-Orthodox faiths.  While I do not think this has happened in this thread, I am taking this opportunity to remind everyone of the rule so that no one violates it. 

Thank you.

Mor Ephrem, moderator
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2015, 02:04:10 PM »
Stella, if you love the Orthodox Church for the sake of Christ, then by all means, come on in. Like Mike, though, I just want to make sure you're aware that you'll find a lot of the same problems here as where you're coming from. That includes parishioners who don't share your zeal, corrupt and crazy clergy, rationalism and over-intellectualization of the faith (even if it's peppered with words like "mystical", "empirical", "ascetic," etc.), and in some quarters even a crushing legalism. A prime example would be the Old Calendarist movement and also milder zealotry around enforcing canons. There are even "rules" set up which have no apparent basis in any canonical tradition. In the Russian church, for instance, there are many who are certain that one cannot take communion on a Sunday without attending vespers and confession on the previous night and then praying two canons, an akathist, and an order of preparation for communion at home. I'm sure the possibility of this stuff has occurred to you, I just want to make sure you're aware that, while we may be the Church, we have plenty of our own human problems.

Hopefully this is in line with the rules. 
Your and Indocern's comments on this thread are helpful and timely for me, thank you.  I've been thinking about the above situation recently.  If there is as much of this in the OC as anywhere else, how do you wend your way through (and respond to) the mess?  For example, how would one discern if one's priest is corrupt or crazy, and still remain submissive to the overall authority structure?  How does one respond to legalistic pressures, especially if it's the majority of a parish?  I'm not experiencing these problems right now, but am coming from the legalistic/fundamentalist end of Protestantism, so I suppose it's a natural concern.  There's no corrective or defense for those errors where I came from, so I guess I'm fishing for evidence of accessible boundaries somewhere in Orthodoxy.   Hope that made sense; I'm still caffeine deficient today.  :-[

Offline fyodorn

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2015, 04:36:49 PM »
Not that I don't want you to come over, but you might want to give your Catholic tradition a fairer shake before you dismiss the whole thing as cold rationalism.

The problem is not just "cold rationalism". The problem is schism from the Church, the Body of Christ, and outright heretical teachings that were condemned as such and that never found any support by any of the Holy Fathers who lived before the schism (and after it too of course).
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 04:37:17 PM by fyodorn »

Offline AnonBot

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2015, 06:33:21 PM »
I find feelings to be dangerous at times. As others have said, experiencing Christ is best. Even if you don't 'feel'  anything, your faith should be enough; true faith cannot be dictated by feelings. Your love for God is a gift in itself and a testament to your experiencing Him. Feelings can be deceiving and they come and go. Our faith must not be fed by feelings, but by love for God; our love is a direct result of His grace and proof that you are experiencing God. Never forget that to utter Christ's name, the Holy Spirit is needed. So go ahead and say His name; say the glorious prayer of the Seraphim in heaven and you will know what it is to love God. I pray everyday to love God in a such a firey way should He find me worthy. May we all one day attain such a state of prayer and love for our God.
Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved.

-St. Seraphim of Sarov

Offline Iconodule

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2015, 05:26:01 PM »
Not that I don't want you to come over, but you might want to give your Catholic tradition a fairer shake before you dismiss the whole thing as cold rationalism.

The problem is not just "cold rationalism". The problem is schism from the Church, the Body of Christ, and outright heretical teachings that were condemned as such and that never found any support by any of the Holy Fathers who lived before the schism (and after it too of course).

I don't disagree with you, but I think Stella is well aware of the Orthodox positions on these questions. When someone is inquiring into our Church from another tradition, we shouldn't be quick to pile on with condemnations of that other tradition or otherwise engage in triumphalism. It's important that the inquirer not feel pressured, browbeaten, or deceived.

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2015, 10:35:16 AM »
Thanks to all for your answers :)

I believe I'm a little bit stressed over this RC/OC issue. I don't feel comfortable with a lot of RC stuff and I feel more closer to OC in a lot of things.

Trying to find the truth and feeling that you can go to hell if you take the wrong path was driving me crazy. I need to pray more and trust in God and examine alla the things without worrying too much about hell. Os course I'm not going to leave christianity. But I need time to read more about OC without putting pressure on myself.

I hope God will give me answers soon :)

Offline mike

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2015, 11:12:33 AM »
Leaving the Orthodox Church is not viewed slightly by the Orthodox either.
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Offline Indocern

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2015, 11:36:32 AM »
Thanks to all for your answers :)

I believe I'm a little bit stressed over this RC/OC issue. I don't feel comfortable with a lot of RC stuff and I feel more closer to OC in a lot of things.

Trying to find the truth and feeling that you can go to hell if you take the wrong path was driving me crazy. I need to pray more and trust in God and examine alla the things without worrying too much about hell. Os course I'm not going to leave christianity. But I need time to read more about OC without putting pressure on myself.

I hope God will give me answers soon :)

If the person make good things, and help which can help and if he/she is good and humble, even help with good word or gesture, and if he/she repent for their sins he/she will not go to hell.

Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2015, 03:34:50 PM »
Leaving the Orthodox Church is not viewed slightly by the Orthodox either.

Yes, I know.

Anyway, I believe that OC has a healthier aproach to christianity than RC...

If I remain in RC I will feel that I'm going to hell all the time. And I'm not a murderer, abortionist, etc... but if you are a traditional catholic and you miss church one sunday - without being gravely sick- you know you can die at any moment and go to hell if you don't run to confessionary...In OC there is another aproach to things...

If I remain at RC my life will be a living hell and possibly I will go to hell anyway. If I leave RC I will go to hell...etc... so I better give myself time to think about christianity without pressure.


Offline stella1990

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2015, 05:18:17 PM »
Thanks to all for your answers :)

I believe I'm a little bit stressed over this RC/OC issue. I don't feel comfortable with a lot of RC stuff and I feel more closer to OC in a lot of things.

Trying to find the truth and feeling that you can go to hell if you take the wrong path was driving me crazy. I need to pray more and trust in God and examine alla the things without worrying too much about hell. Os course I'm not going to leave christianity. But I need time to read more about OC without putting pressure on myself.

I hope God will give me answers soon :)

If the person make good things, and help which can help and if he/she is good and humble, even help with good word or gesture, and if he/she repent for their sins he/she will not go to hell.

I hope this is the truth.

Offline AnonBot

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2015, 07:58:05 PM »
Thanks to all for your answers :)

I believe I'm a little bit stressed over this RC/OC issue. I don't feel comfortable with a lot of RC stuff and I feel more closer to OC in a lot of things.

Trying to find the truth and feeling that you can go to hell if you take the wrong path was driving me crazy. I need to pray more and trust in God and examine alla the things without worrying too much about hell. Os course I'm not going to leave christianity. But I need time to read more about OC without putting pressure on myself.

I hope God will give me answers soon :)

If the person make good things, and help which can help and if he/she is good and humble, even help with good word or gesture, and if he/she repent for their sins he/she will not go to hell.

I hope this is the truth.

Some people live life trying to not go to hell

Orthodox live life trying to become like Christ through the grace of God

By focusing so much on hell, you completely miss out on the divine gifts the Holy Spirit can bestow on you when you live humbly and with true love for God and everyone. Remember what St. Silouan said: `keep thy mind in hell, but despair not.' We must live with hell in mind yes, but let us remember what hell is: a place devoid of the Holy Spirit and the love of our God. That's what it really is at the end of the day. We must live striving to be like Christ and with that we will avoid the Holy Spirit leaving us which would be like a hell on earth anyways. Forget about going to hell after you die and focus on the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit so that you may not live in a hell on this earth but,  rather, live a life on this earth deified and transformed, perfected, through His grace. Despair not!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 08:05:00 PM by AnonBot »
Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved.

-St. Seraphim of Sarov

Offline Indocern

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Re: how Orthodox feel Jesus????
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2015, 03:49:53 AM »
Thanks to all for your answers :)

I believe I'm a little bit stressed over this RC/OC issue. I don't feel comfortable with a lot of RC stuff and I feel more closer to OC in a lot of things.

Trying to find the truth and feeling that you can go to hell if you take the wrong path was driving me crazy. I need to pray more and trust in God and examine alla the things without worrying too much about hell. Os course I'm not going to leave christianity. But I need time to read more about OC without putting pressure on myself.

I hope God will give me answers soon :)

If the person make good things, and help which can help and if he/she is good and humble, even help with good word or gesture, and if he/she repent for their sins he/she will not go to hell.

I hope this is the truth.

It is so, I know it from person who studied theology.