Author Topic: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson  (Read 38555 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #225 on: January 09, 2016, 06:06:18 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #226 on: January 09, 2016, 06:13:50 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.

A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,023
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #227 on: January 09, 2016, 06:17:06 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.

A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

As long as there are true Orthodox bishops, there is the Church.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #228 on: January 09, 2016, 06:19:20 PM »
A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

As long as there are true Orthodox bishops, there is the Church.

Oh boy...

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,023
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #229 on: January 09, 2016, 06:28:10 PM »
A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

As long as there are true Orthodox bishops, there is the Church.

Oh boy...
What did the Church Fathers have to say on the matter, specifically St. Ignatius of Antioch.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #230 on: January 09, 2016, 06:29:04 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.

A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

Very true.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #231 on: January 09, 2016, 06:29:38 PM »
A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

As long as there are true Orthodox bishops, there is the Church.

Oh boy...
What did the Church Fathers have to say on the matter, specifically St. Ignatius of Antioch.

They weren't talking about Roman Catholicism, unlike the participants in this thread.

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,023
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #232 on: January 09, 2016, 06:30:48 PM »
A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

As long as there are true Orthodox bishops, there is the Church.

Oh boy...
What did the Church Fathers have to say on the matter, specifically St. Ignatius of Antioch.

They weren't talking about Roman Catholicism, unlike the participants in this thread.

St. Ignatius of Antioch is honored as a Catholic Saint. He is pre-schism. He was the saint who sat on Christ's lap and who was mentored by St. John the Theologian (St. John the Evangelist).

It was he who mentioned that where the bishops are, there is the church.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 06:32:47 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #233 on: January 09, 2016, 06:32:49 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.

A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

Very true.

And so, were I sedevacantist, I would argue that the see exists but is merely unoccupied at present.  The Church continues to exist, however uneasily, in such circumstances.  But sedevacantist's argument was something rather different, as if nineteen centuries of tradition makes not having a Pope not a big deal.  LOL.   

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #234 on: January 09, 2016, 06:33:27 PM »
A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

As long as there are true Orthodox bishops, there is the Church.

Oh boy...
What did the Church Fathers have to say on the matter, specifically St. Ignatius of Antioch.

They weren't talking about Roman Catholicism, unlike the participants in this thread.

St. Ignatius of Antioch is honored as a Catholic Saint. He is pre-schism. He was the saint who sat on Christ's lap and who was mentored by St. John the Theologian (St. John the Evangelist).

It was he who mentioned that where the bishops are, there is the church.

But have you heard about St Evodios? 

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,023
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #235 on: January 09, 2016, 06:41:15 PM »
A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

As long as there are true Orthodox bishops, there is the Church.

Oh boy...
What did the Church Fathers have to say on the matter, specifically St. Ignatius of Antioch.

They weren't talking about Roman Catholicism, unlike the participants in this thread.

St. Ignatius of Antioch is honored as a Catholic Saint. He is pre-schism. He was the saint who sat on Christ's lap and who was mentored by St. John the Theologian (St. John the Evangelist).

It was he who mentioned that where the bishops are, there is the church.

But have you heard about St Evodios?

No, so please do share.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,023
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #236 on: January 09, 2016, 06:42:48 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.

A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

Very true.

And so, were I sedevacantist, I would argue that the see exists but is merely unoccupied at present.  The Church continues to exist somewhere in the world, however uneasily, in such circumstances.  But sedevacantist's argument was something rather different, as if nineteen centuries of tradition makes not having a Pope not a big deal.  LOL.   

FIFY
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #237 on: January 09, 2016, 06:50:04 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.

A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

Very true.

And so, were I sedevacantist, I would argue that the see exists but is merely unoccupied at present.  The Church continues to exist, however uneasily, in such circumstances.  But sedevacantist's argument was something rather different, as if nineteen centuries of tradition makes not having a Pope not a big deal.  LOL.   

I understand. My response had a lot of holes.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #238 on: January 09, 2016, 06:53:18 PM »
And so, were I sedevacantist, I would argue that the see exists but is merely unoccupied at present.  The Church continues to exist somewhere in the world, however uneasily, in such circumstances.  But sedevacantist's argument was something rather different, as if nineteen centuries of tradition makes not having a Pope not a big deal.  LOL.   

FIFY

No, I said what I meant and it was just fine.  You inserted your own off-topic idea in order to derail the conversation. 

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,023
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #239 on: January 09, 2016, 07:17:09 PM »
And so, were I sedevacantist, I would argue that the see exists but is merely unoccupied at present.  The Church continues to exist somewhere in the world, however uneasily, in such circumstances.  But sedevacantist's argument was something rather different, as if nineteen centuries of tradition makes not having a Pope not a big deal.  LOL.   

FIFY

No, I said what I meant and it was just fine.  You inserted your own off-topic idea in order to derail the conversation.

No, I "fixed it for you" because most sedes whom I know believe that even though the See of Peter is vacant, there are other bishops out there to confirm their children as they often use the SSPX or other "noncanonical groups of bishops" when they want their children confirmed. This is interesting because while they do not agree with the SSPX, they use their bishops.

Bishop Williamson has confirmed countless children here in the USA. He came to Los Angeles several times to perform confirmation ceremonies for sedes who were not even members of the local SSPX parish.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 07:21:28 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #240 on: January 10, 2016, 02:44:13 AM »
And so, were I sedevacantist, I would argue that the see exists but is merely unoccupied at present.  The Church continues to exist somewhere in the world, however uneasily, in such circumstances.  But sedevacantist's argument was something rather different, as if nineteen centuries of tradition makes not having a Pope not a big deal.  LOL.   

FIFY

No, I said what I meant and it was just fine.  You inserted your own off-topic idea in order to derail the conversation.

No, I "fixed it for you" because most sedes whom I know believe that even though the See of Peter is vacant, there are other bishops out there to confirm their children as they often use the SSPX or other "noncanonical groups of bishops" when they want their children confirmed. This is interesting because while they do not agree with the SSPX, they use their bishops.
But your insertion of "somewhere in the world" adds nothing to Mor's words that he didn't already say. Your insertion was therefore superfluous, saying nothing.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #241 on: January 10, 2016, 03:40:21 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.

Come, Mor, don't leave your gloves on for my sake. I want to know how you would have answered.

A church with a vacant see =/= a church without a see

Very true.

And so, were I sedevacantist, I would argue that the see exists but is merely unoccupied at present.  The Church continues to exist, however uneasily, in such circumstances.  But sedevacantist's argument was something rather different, as if nineteen centuries of tradition makes not having a Pope not a big deal.  LOL.   
as a sedevacantist I do believe the see is vacant, there are other catholics who refer to themselves as  sedeplentists which I do not disregard, not sure where you got the idea that it's no big deal we don't have a pope.. It's just a fact that the Church has gone through certain periods in  history without a pope, this doesn't mean the Catholic Church ceases to exist.

The Church has existed for years without a pope, and does so every time a pope dies.  The Church has experienced a papal interregnum (i.e. period without a pope) over 200 different times in Church history.  The longest papal interregnum (before the Vatican II apostasy) was between Pope St. Marcellinus (296-304) and Pope St. Marcellus (308-309).  It lasted for more than three and a half years.36  Further, theologians teach that the Church can exist for even decades without a pope.   
FR. EDMUND JAMES O’REILLY CRUSHES THE NON-SEDEVACANTISTS’ MAIN ARGUMENT ON THE LENGTH OF A PAPAL INTERREGNUM (PERIOD WITHOUT A POPE) BY TEACHING THAT THE CHURCH CAN EXIST FOR DECADES WITHOUT A POPE 
Fr. Edmund James O’Reilly was an eminent theologian who lived at the time of Vatican I.  Writing after Vatican I and its definitions on the perpetuity of the Papal Office, he taught that God could leave the Church without a pope for over 39 years – e.g., during the entire span of the Great Western Schism (1378-1417).  Here is a quote from Father O’Reilly’s discussion of the Great Western Schism: 
“We may here stop to inquire what is to be said of the position, at that time, of the three claimants, and their rights with regard to the Papacy.  In the first place, there was all through, from the death of Gregory XI in 1378, a pope – with the exception, of course, of the intervals between deaths and elections to fill up the vacancies thereby created.  There was, I say, at every given time a pope, really invested with the dignity of the Vicar of Christ and Head of the Church, whatever opinions might exist among many as to his genuineness; not that an interregnum covering the whole period would have been impossible or inconsistent with the promises of Christ, for this is by no means manifest, but that, as a matter of fact, there was not such an interregnum.”

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #242 on: January 10, 2016, 03:43:30 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.
I'm a proto-protestant because I quoted St Athanasius? what do you consider yourself?

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #243 on: January 10, 2016, 03:45:39 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #244 on: January 10, 2016, 03:52:50 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?
Yes. Do you?

Do we really need to know an answer?

We do know the answer and the answer is yes. The only people saying otherwise on the professional level are Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
please tell me you're joking..this is a joke right, you people seem to   love being conned but at the end of the day being wrong on this issue doesn't mean the loss of your soul, rejecting the Church of Christ is another matter, but it puzzles me with all the info available to us in this day and age people still believe 6 million jews were murdered, maybe Oswald killed Kennedy alone or next you will tell me Bin Laden was responsible for 911...please say it isn't so

Please tell me that you're a troll account. I knew sedevacantism was a fringe thing, but I never thought it was this fringe...



I honestly don't know what else to say. I'm kind of depressed now to be honest...
first off I don't represent all sedevacantists, if you think Francis is actually Catholic, by praying with jews in synagogues, muslims in mosques etc  then I don't know what else to say, I used to be in the novus order because I didn't look into the issues in depth, what's your excuse?
 

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #245 on: January 11, 2016, 11:04:44 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.
I'm a proto-protestant because I quoted St Athanasius? what do you consider yourself?

I am Orthodox. 

I do not consider you a proto-Protestant because you quoted St Athanasius.  I consider you a proto-Protestant because you cavalierly dismiss what you would impose on us and appeal to "over 1900 years of magisterium to follow" to justify yourself.

Online Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,345
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to FOCOF
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #246 on: January 11, 2016, 11:07:31 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.
I'm a proto-protestant because I quoted St Athanasius? what do you consider yourself?

I am Orthodox. 

I do not consider you a proto-Protestant because you quoted St Athanasius.  I consider you a proto-Protestant because you cavalierly dismiss what you would impose on us and appeal to "over 1900 years of magisterium to follow" to justify yourself.

LOL:

I am Catholic..today the Vatican is not catholic..

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,758
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #247 on: January 11, 2016, 11:47:09 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #248 on: January 12, 2016, 09:43:29 AM »
God bless!

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,223
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #249 on: January 12, 2016, 10:19:40 AM »


Cue the same old tired joke about that one Romanian bishop...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 10:20:01 AM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #250 on: January 12, 2016, 01:08:39 PM »
We have to wait for Isa to show up for that one.
God bless!

Offline Rohzek

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,216
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #251 on: January 12, 2016, 02:37:08 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?
Yes. Do you?

Do we really need to know an answer?

We do know the answer and the answer is yes. The only people saying otherwise on the professional level are Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
please tell me you're joking..this is a joke right, you people seem to   love being conned but at the end of the day being wrong on this issue doesn't mean the loss of your soul, rejecting the Church of Christ is another matter, but it puzzles me with all the info available to us in this day and age people still believe 6 million jews were murdered, maybe Oswald killed Kennedy alone or next you will tell me Bin Laden was responsible for 911...please say it isn't so

I think in "all the info available today" you must be including anything anybody posts online or in pamphlets. There are uncountable sources of false information and confusing conspiracies. Please don't be a

[Edited to add:] Any information that comes with an axe to grind or a hateful attitude attached to it should be suspect. If some source is "proving" that the Jewish people do not deserve our sympathy, then they are automatically on the side of untruth, numbers aside.
you believe the jews need our sympathy? really? the Christ killers? if you fell for the 6 million number you are a victim, for starters the 6 million number was circulating in newspapers long before world war 2, if you care about the issue you should do more research

Technically, the Romans killed Jesus. Tell me what is worse, those who plead for Jesus' death honestly believing him to be a devilish heretic, or the Roman prefect who believed a man to be innocent but murdered him because of political expediency? I would most certainly say the latter, but I don't go around holding Italians or Frenchmen responsible for Christ's death. Furthermore, did not Christ himself forgive his executors and those who wished it upon him before he gave his last breath?

Tell me, what will you cite next? The Protocols of Zion? Your ideas are ridiculous and foolish.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 02:38:27 PM by Rohzek »
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,223
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #252 on: January 12, 2016, 02:45:20 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?
Yes. Do you?

Do we really need to know an answer?

We do know the answer and the answer is yes. The only people saying otherwise on the professional level are Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
please tell me you're joking..this is a joke right, you people seem to   love being conned but at the end of the day being wrong on this issue doesn't mean the loss of your soul, rejecting the Church of Christ is another matter, but it puzzles me with all the info available to us in this day and age people still believe 6 million jews were murdered, maybe Oswald killed Kennedy alone or next you will tell me Bin Laden was responsible for 911...please say it isn't so

I think in "all the info available today" you must be including anything anybody posts online or in pamphlets. There are uncountable sources of false information and confusing conspiracies. Please don't be a

[Edited to add:] Any information that comes with an axe to grind or a hateful attitude attached to it should be suspect. If some source is "proving" that the Jewish people do not deserve our sympathy, then they are automatically on the side of untruth, numbers aside.
you believe the jews need our sympathy? really? the Christ killers? if you fell for the 6 million number you are a victim, for starters the 6 million number was circulating in newspapers long before world war 2, if you care about the issue you should do more research

Technically, the Romans killed Jesus. Tell me what is worse, those who plead for Jesus' death honestly believing him to be a devilish heretic, or the Roman prefect who believed a man to be innocent but murdered him because of political expediency? I would most certainly say the latter, but I don't go around holding Italians or Frenchmen responsible for Christ's death. Furthermore, did not Christ himself forgive his executors and those who wished it upon him before he gave his last breath?

Tell me, what will you cite next? The Protocols of Zion? Your ideas are ridiculous and foolish.

John 11 and 18 would seem to indicate that the leaders were well aware of His innocence. I agree that the rabble they stirred up was likely not.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 02:49:14 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #253 on: January 12, 2016, 06:47:02 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.
I'm a proto-protestant because I quoted St Athanasius? what do you consider yourself?

I am Orthodox. 

I do not consider you a proto-Protestant because you quoted St Athanasius.  I consider you a proto-Protestant because you cavalierly dismiss what you would impose on us and appeal to "over 1900 years of magisterium to follow" to justify yourself.
I'll repeat myself, the orthodox are not wrong simply for rejecting Rome, they are wrong because they had no justification to do so, Rome was not in heresy....the fact the Church has no true pope is a sad reality, what do you want me to do about it, cry like a baby and say we have no leader how will we live?..and your loll's are meaningless, I have no idea what there is to lol about

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #254 on: January 12, 2016, 06:47:42 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
I don't understand you bro, write in English please

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,758
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #255 on: January 12, 2016, 06:55:47 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
I don't understand you bro, write in English please
DUDE!!!!!!!! What's it like being a sedevacantist? I've never met one before.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #256 on: January 12, 2016, 07:06:28 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?
Yes. Do you?

Do we really need to know an answer?

We do know the answer and the answer is yes. The only people saying otherwise on the professional level are Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
please tell me you're joking..this is a joke right, you people seem to   love being conned but at the end of the day being wrong on this issue doesn't mean the loss of your soul, rejecting the Church of Christ is another matter, but it puzzles me with all the info available to us in this day and age people still believe 6 million jews were murdered, maybe Oswald killed Kennedy alone or next you will tell me Bin Laden was responsible for 911...please say it isn't so

I think in "all the info available today" you must be including anything anybody posts online or in pamphlets. There are uncountable sources of false information and confusing conspiracies. Please don't be a

[Edited to add:] Any information that comes with an axe to grind or a hateful attitude attached to it should be suspect. If some source is "proving" that the Jewish people do not deserve our sympathy, then they are automatically on the side of untruth, numbers aside.
you believe the jews need our sympathy? really? the Christ killers? if you fell for the 6 million number you are a victim, for starters the 6 million number was circulating in newspapers long before world war 2, if you care about the issue you should do more research

Technically, the Romans killed Jesus. Tell me what is worse, those who plead for Jesus' death honestly believing him to be a devilish heretic, or the Roman prefect who believed a man to be innocent but murdered him because of political expediency? I would most certainly say the latter, but I don't go around holding Italians or Frenchmen responsible for Christ's death. Furthermore, did not Christ himself forgive his executors and those who wished it upon him before he gave his last breath?

Tell me, what will you cite next? The Protocols of Zion? Your ideas are ridiculous and foolish.
no you are foolish , you don't know what u r babbling about, I guess you would censure John Chrysostom for not being politically correct?

John Chrysostom, Against the Jews.  Homily 1

But do not be surprised that I called the Jews pitiable. They really are pitiable and miserable. When so many blessings from heaven came into their hands, they thrust them aside and were at great pains to reject them. The morning Sun of Justice arose for them, but they thrust aside its rays and still sit in darkness. We, who were nurtured by darkness, drew the light to ourselves and were freed from the gloom of their error. They were the branches of that holy root, but those branches were broken. We had no share in the root, but we did reap the fruit of godliness. From their childhood they read the prophets, but they crucified him whom the prophets had foretold. We did not hear the divine prophecies but we did worship him of whom they prophesied. And so they are pitiful because they rejected the blessings which were sent to them, while others seized hold of these blessing and drew them to themselves. Although those Jews had been called to the adoption of sons, they fell to kinship with dogs; we who were dogs received the strength, through God's grace, to put aside the irrational nature which was ours and to rise to the honor of sons. How do I prove this? Christ said: "It is no fair to take the children's bread and to cast it to the dogs". Christ was speaking to the Canaanite woman when He called the Jews children and the Gentiles dogs

But see how thereafter the order was changed about: they became dogs, and we became the children. Paul said of the Jews: "Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the mutilation. For we are the circumcision". Do you see how those who at first were children became dogs? Do you wish to find out how we, who at first were dogs, became children? "But to as many as received him, he gave the power of becoming sons of God".

Although such beasts are unfit for work, they are fit for killing. And this is what happened to the Jews: while they were making themselves unfit for work, they grew fit for slaughter. This is why Christ said: "But as for these my enemies, who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and slay them". You Jews should have fasted then, when drunkenness was doing those terrible things to you, when your gluttony was giving birth to your ungodliness-not now. Now your fasting is untimely and an abomination. Who said so? Isaiah himself when he called out in a loud voice: "I did not choose this fast, say the Lord". Why? "You quarrel and squabble when you fast and strike those subject to you with your fists". But if you fasting was an abomination when you were striking your fellow slaves, does it become acceptable now that you have slain your Master? How could that be right?

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,758
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #257 on: January 12, 2016, 07:11:25 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?
Yes. Do you?

Do we really need to know an answer?

We do know the answer and the answer is yes. The only people saying otherwise on the professional level are Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
please tell me you're joking..this is a joke right, you people seem to   love being conned but at the end of the day being wrong on this issue doesn't mean the loss of your soul, rejecting the Church of Christ is another matter, but it puzzles me with all the info available to us in this day and age people still believe 6 million jews were murdered, maybe Oswald killed Kennedy alone or next you will tell me Bin Laden was responsible for 911...please say it isn't so

I think in "all the info available today" you must be including anything anybody posts online or in pamphlets. There are uncountable sources of false information and confusing conspiracies. Please don't be a

[Edited to add:] Any information that comes with an axe to grind or a hateful attitude attached to it should be suspect. If some source is "proving" that the Jewish people do not deserve our sympathy, then they are automatically on the side of untruth, numbers aside.
you believe the jews need our sympathy? really? the Christ killers? if you fell for the 6 million number you are a victim, for starters the 6 million number was circulating in newspapers long before world war 2, if you care about the issue you should do more research

Technically, the Romans killed Jesus. Tell me what is worse, those who plead for Jesus' death honestly believing him to be a devilish heretic, or the Roman prefect who believed a man to be innocent but murdered him because of political expediency? I would most certainly say the latter, but I don't go around holding Italians or Frenchmen responsible for Christ's death. Furthermore, did not Christ himself forgive his executors and those who wished it upon him before he gave his last breath?

Tell me, what will you cite next? The Protocols of Zion? Your ideas are ridiculous and foolish.
no you are foolish , you don't know what u r babbling about, I guess you would censure John Chrysostom for not being politically correct?

John Chrysostom, Against the Jews.  Homily 1

But do not be surprised that I called the Jews pitiable. They really are pitiable and miserable. When so many blessings from heaven came into their hands, they thrust them aside and were at great pains to reject them. The morning Sun of Justice arose for them, but they thrust aside its rays and still sit in darkness. We, who were nurtured by darkness, drew the light to ourselves and were freed from the gloom of their error. They were the branches of that holy root, but those branches were broken. We had no share in the root, but we did reap the fruit of godliness. From their childhood they read the prophets, but they crucified him whom the prophets had foretold. We did not hear the divine prophecies but we did worship him of whom they prophesied. And so they are pitiful because they rejected the blessings which were sent to them, while others seized hold of these blessing and drew them to themselves. Although those Jews had been called to the adoption of sons, they fell to kinship with dogs; we who were dogs received the strength, through God's grace, to put aside the irrational nature which was ours and to rise to the honor of sons. How do I prove this? Christ said: "It is no fair to take the children's bread and to cast it to the dogs". Christ was speaking to the Canaanite woman when He called the Jews children and the Gentiles dogs

But see how thereafter the order was changed about: they became dogs, and we became the children. Paul said of the Jews: "Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the mutilation. For we are the circumcision". Do you see how those who at first were children became dogs? Do you wish to find out how we, who at first were dogs, became children? "But to as many as received him, he gave the power of becoming sons of God".

Although such beasts are unfit for work, they are fit for killing. And this is what happened to the Jews: while they were making themselves unfit for work, they grew fit for slaughter. This is why Christ said: "But as for these my enemies, who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and slay them". You Jews should have fasted then, when drunkenness was doing those terrible things to you, when your gluttony was giving birth to your ungodliness-not now. Now your fasting is untimely and an abomination. Who said so? Isaiah himself when he called out in a loud voice: "I did not choose this fast, say the Lord". Why? "You quarrel and squabble when you fast and strike those subject to you with your fists". But if you fasting was an abomination when you were striking your fellow slaves, does it become acceptable now that you have slain your Master? How could that be right?
Dude!!! What's it like being an anti-semite?
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #258 on: January 12, 2016, 07:12:44 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
I don't understand you bro, write in English please
DUDE!!!!!!!! What's it like being a sedevacantist? I've never met one before.
you believe Francis is Catholic? really? he's protecting the true faith? tell me why I should be ok with him praying with jews in synagogues for starters, why I should be ok with him esteeming muslims, he can't judge gays etc...I was like you when I didn't take a real interest in the issue but if you're on this site I can assume you actually looked into these subjects?

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,758
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #259 on: January 12, 2016, 07:16:13 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
I don't understand you bro, write in English please
DUDE!!!!!!!! What's it like being a sedevacantist? I've never met one before.
you believe Francis is Catholic? really? he's protecting the true faith? tell me why I should be ok with him praying with jews in synagogues for starters, why I should be ok with him esteeming muslims, he can't judge gays etc...I was like you when I didn't take a real interest in the issue but if you're on this site I can assume you actually looked into these subjects?

Yes, I think he is a Catholic, and I believe he is the Pope. But what does my opinion on this topic matter, since I am don't have the authority to judge the status of the Pope? I will agree, however, that Pope Francis is often imprudent in his words and deeds and I look forward to a Pope more inline with traditional Catholicism.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #260 on: January 12, 2016, 07:31:37 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
I don't understand you bro, write in English please
DUDE!!!!!!!! What's it like being a sedevacantist? I've never met one before.
you believe Francis is Catholic? really? he's protecting the true faith? tell me why I should be ok with him praying with jews in synagogues for starters, why I should be ok with him esteeming muslims, he can't judge gays etc...I was like you when I didn't take a real interest in the issue but if you're on this site I can assume you actually looked into these subjects?

Yes, I think he is a Catholic, and I believe he is the Pope. But what does my opinion on this topic matter, since I am don't have the authority to judge the status of the Pope? I will agree, however, that Pope Francis is often imprudent in his words and deeds and I look forward to a Pope more inline with traditional Catholicism.
I'm not saying you will lose your salvation for being wrong on this issue so I won't spend too much time with this , but I hope as a catholic you are warning the orthodox they risk losing salvation for being outside the Catholic Church...do you believe in no salvation outside the Church?

The Catholic Encyclopedia, “Heresy,” 1914, Vol. 7, p. 261: “The pope himself, if notoriously guilty of heresy, would cease to be pope because he would cease to be a member of the Church.”

Offline Rohzek

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,216
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #261 on: January 12, 2016, 10:10:48 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?
Yes. Do you?

Do we really need to know an answer?

We do know the answer and the answer is yes. The only people saying otherwise on the professional level are Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
please tell me you're joking..this is a joke right, you people seem to   love being conned but at the end of the day being wrong on this issue doesn't mean the loss of your soul, rejecting the Church of Christ is another matter, but it puzzles me with all the info available to us in this day and age people still believe 6 million jews were murdered, maybe Oswald killed Kennedy alone or next you will tell me Bin Laden was responsible for 911...please say it isn't so

I think in "all the info available today" you must be including anything anybody posts online or in pamphlets. There are uncountable sources of false information and confusing conspiracies. Please don't be a

[Edited to add:] Any information that comes with an axe to grind or a hateful attitude attached to it should be suspect. If some source is "proving" that the Jewish people do not deserve our sympathy, then they are automatically on the side of untruth, numbers aside.
you believe the jews need our sympathy? really? the Christ killers? if you fell for the 6 million number you are a victim, for starters the 6 million number was circulating in newspapers long before world war 2, if you care about the issue you should do more research

Technically, the Romans killed Jesus. Tell me what is worse, those who plead for Jesus' death honestly believing him to be a devilish heretic, or the Roman prefect who believed a man to be innocent but murdered him because of political expediency? I would most certainly say the latter, but I don't go around holding Italians or Frenchmen responsible for Christ's death. Furthermore, did not Christ himself forgive his executors and those who wished it upon him before he gave his last breath?

Tell me, what will you cite next? The Protocols of Zion? Your ideas are ridiculous and foolish.
no you are foolish , you don't know what u r babbling about, I guess you would censure John Chrysostom for not being politically correct?

John Chrysostom, Against the Jews.  Homily 1

But do not be surprised that I called the Jews pitiable. They really are pitiable and miserable. When so many blessings from heaven came into their hands, they thrust them aside and were at great pains to reject them. The morning Sun of Justice arose for them, but they thrust aside its rays and still sit in darkness. We, who were nurtured by darkness, drew the light to ourselves and were freed from the gloom of their error. They were the branches of that holy root, but those branches were broken. We had no share in the root, but we did reap the fruit of godliness. From their childhood they read the prophets, but they crucified him whom the prophets had foretold. We did not hear the divine prophecies but we did worship him of whom they prophesied. And so they are pitiful because they rejected the blessings which were sent to them, while others seized hold of these blessing and drew them to themselves. Although those Jews had been called to the adoption of sons, they fell to kinship with dogs; we who were dogs received the strength, through God's grace, to put aside the irrational nature which was ours and to rise to the honor of sons. How do I prove this? Christ said: "It is no fair to take the children's bread and to cast it to the dogs". Christ was speaking to the Canaanite woman when He called the Jews children and the Gentiles dogs

But see how thereafter the order was changed about: they became dogs, and we became the children. Paul said of the Jews: "Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the mutilation. For we are the circumcision". Do you see how those who at first were children became dogs? Do you wish to find out how we, who at first were dogs, became children? "But to as many as received him, he gave the power of becoming sons of God".

Although such beasts are unfit for work, they are fit for killing. And this is what happened to the Jews: while they were making themselves unfit for work, they grew fit for slaughter. This is why Christ said: "But as for these my enemies, who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and slay them". You Jews should have fasted then, when drunkenness was doing those terrible things to you, when your gluttony was giving birth to your ungodliness-not now. Now your fasting is untimely and an abomination. Who said so? Isaiah himself when he called out in a loud voice: "I did not choose this fast, say the Lord". Why? "You quarrel and squabble when you fast and strike those subject to you with your fists". But if you fasting was an abomination when you were striking your fellow slaves, does it become acceptable now that you have slain your Master? How could that be right?

So because St. John of Chrysostom was an anti-Semite that makes being one okay? What about the part of Christ forgiving all of his killers? And what about the part of the Romans killing him?

I expect that next you will be trying to re-explain World War II as something like this:



"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #262 on: January 12, 2016, 11:56:51 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?
Yes. Do you?

Do we really need to know an answer?

We do know the answer and the answer is yes. The only people saying otherwise on the professional level are Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
please tell me you're joking..this is a joke right, you people seem to   love being conned but at the end of the day being wrong on this issue doesn't mean the loss of your soul, rejecting the Church of Christ is another matter, but it puzzles me with all the info available to us in this day and age people still believe 6 million jews were murdered, maybe Oswald killed Kennedy alone or next you will tell me Bin Laden was responsible for 911...please say it isn't so

I think in "all the info available today" you must be including anything anybody posts online or in pamphlets. There are uncountable sources of false information and confusing conspiracies. Please don't be a

[Edited to add:] Any information that comes with an axe to grind or a hateful attitude attached to it should be suspect. If some source is "proving" that the Jewish people do not deserve our sympathy, then they are automatically on the side of untruth, numbers aside.
you believe the jews need our sympathy? really? the Christ killers? if you fell for the 6 million number you are a victim, for starters the 6 million number was circulating in newspapers long before world war 2, if you care about the issue you should do more research

Technically, the Romans killed Jesus. Tell me what is worse, those who plead for Jesus' death honestly believing him to be a devilish heretic, or the Roman prefect who believed a man to be innocent but murdered him because of political expediency? I would most certainly say the latter, but I don't go around holding Italians or Frenchmen responsible for Christ's death. Furthermore, did not Christ himself forgive his executors and those who wished it upon him before he gave his last breath?

Tell me, what will you cite next? The Protocols of Zion? Your ideas are ridiculous and foolish.
no you are foolish , you don't know what u r babbling about, I guess you would censure John Chrysostom for not being politically correct?

John Chrysostom, Against the Jews.  Homily 1

But do not be surprised that I called the Jews pitiable. They really are pitiable and miserable. When so many blessings from heaven came into their hands, they thrust them aside and were at great pains to reject them. The morning Sun of Justice arose for them, but they thrust aside its rays and still sit in darkness. We, who were nurtured by darkness, drew the light to ourselves and were freed from the gloom of their error. They were the branches of that holy root, but those branches were broken. We had no share in the root, but we did reap the fruit of godliness. From their childhood they read the prophets, but they crucified him whom the prophets had foretold. We did not hear the divine prophecies but we did worship him of whom they prophesied. And so they are pitiful because they rejected the blessings which were sent to them, while others seized hold of these blessing and drew them to themselves. Although those Jews had been called to the adoption of sons, they fell to kinship with dogs; we who were dogs received the strength, through God's grace, to put aside the irrational nature which was ours and to rise to the honor of sons. How do I prove this? Christ said: "It is no fair to take the children's bread and to cast it to the dogs". Christ was speaking to the Canaanite woman when He called the Jews children and the Gentiles dogs

But see how thereafter the order was changed about: they became dogs, and we became the children. Paul said of the Jews: "Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the mutilation. For we are the circumcision". Do you see how those who at first were children became dogs? Do you wish to find out how we, who at first were dogs, became children? "But to as many as received him, he gave the power of becoming sons of God".

Although such beasts are unfit for work, they are fit for killing. And this is what happened to the Jews: while they were making themselves unfit for work, they grew fit for slaughter. This is why Christ said: "But as for these my enemies, who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and slay them". You Jews should have fasted then, when drunkenness was doing those terrible things to you, when your gluttony was giving birth to your ungodliness-not now. Now your fasting is untimely and an abomination. Who said so? Isaiah himself when he called out in a loud voice: "I did not choose this fast, say the Lord". Why? "You quarrel and squabble when you fast and strike those subject to you with your fists". But if you fasting was an abomination when you were striking your fellow slaves, does it become acceptable now that you have slain your Master? How could that be right?

Hopefully this won't change the topic (we can never get enough Papcy-related talk around here), but I want to note that everything St. John is saying is both quoted from and in the tenor of the Scriptures. He's giving a synopsis of the biblical position on the subject, so to speak; certainly of the official Christian position. St. John is saying nothing original, and I hope this quote of yours isn't what's given you the impression he was a special anti-Semite and friend to your cause.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,223
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #263 on: January 13, 2016, 12:57:48 AM »
Calling the Jews dogs is original. St. Paul certainly doesn't say that.

Assuming that the Jews of St. John's own day were Christ-killers is original. Even assuming that Paul thought that every Jew of His day was specially responsible for deicide, that doesn't translate to the Jews of St. John's day.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 01:00:42 AM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,223
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #264 on: January 13, 2016, 01:03:13 AM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.
I'm a proto-protestant because I quoted St Athanasius? what do you consider yourself?

I am Orthodox. 

I do not consider you a proto-Protestant because you quoted St Athanasius.  I consider you a proto-Protestant because you cavalierly dismiss what you would impose on us and appeal to "over 1900 years of magisterium to follow" to justify yourself.
I'll repeat myself, the orthodox are not wrong simply for rejecting Rome, they are wrong because they had no justification to do so, Rome was not in heresy....the fact the Church has no true pope is a sad reality, what do you want me to do about it

How about... recognize that sedevacantism is a mockery of Catholic theology and make a different life choice?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #265 on: January 13, 2016, 03:51:23 AM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
I don't understand you bro, write in English please
DUDE!!!!!!!! What's it like being a sedevacantist? I've never met one before.
you believe Francis is Catholic? really? he's protecting the true faith? tell me why I should be ok with him praying with jews in synagogues for starters, why I should be ok with him esteeming muslims, he can't judge gays etc...I was like you when I didn't take a real interest in the issue but if you're on this site I can assume you actually looked into these subjects?

Yes, I think he is a Catholic, and I believe he is the Pope. But what does my opinion on this topic matter, since I am don't have the authority to judge the status of the Pope? I will agree, however, that Pope Francis is often imprudent in his words and deeds and I look forward to a Pope more inline with traditional Catholicism.
I'm not saying you will lose your salvation for being wrong on this issue so I won't spend too much time with this , but I hope as a catholic you are warning the orthodox they risk losing salvation for being outside the Catholic Church...do you believe in no salvation outside the Church?
What makes you think you can convince us by citing persons only you claim as authorities?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #266 on: January 13, 2016, 09:59:41 AM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
But what if the term 'Catholic' doesn't apply to your sect?
what sect are you referring to? I'm a Roman Catholic..I just hold the sedevacantist position and reject the Vatican 2 sect.

Dude!!! I didn't know that had a sedevacantist!  What's it like, bro?
I don't understand you bro, write in English please
DUDE!!!!!!!! What's it like being a sedevacantist? I've never met one before.
you believe Francis is Catholic? really? he's protecting the true faith? tell me why I should be ok with him praying with jews in synagogues for starters, why I should be ok with him esteeming muslims, he can't judge gays etc...I was like you when I didn't take a real interest in the issue but if you're on this site I can assume you actually looked into these subjects?
I'm curious, was there a pope when Alexander VI sat in the chair? What about Steven VI, John XII, Urban VI, Benedict IX, Leo X or Boniface VIII? I could name a score more, but you get the idea...
God bless!

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #267 on: January 13, 2016, 09:09:40 PM »
18. Gregory VI, 1012  19. Sylvester III, 1045  20. John Mincius (Benedict X), 1058–1059  21. Pietro Cadalus (Honorius II), 1061–1064  22. Guibert of Ravenna (Clement III), 1080 & 1084–1100  23. Theodoric, 1100–1101  24. Adalbert, 1101  25. Maginulf (Sylvester IV), 1105–1111  26. Maurice Burdanus (Gregory VIII), 1118–1121  27. Thebaldus Buccapecuc (Celestine II) (legitimate but submitted to opposing pope, Honorius II, and afterwards considered an antipope), 1124  28. Pietro Pierleoni (Anacletus II), 1130–1138  29. Gregorio Conti (Victor IV), 1138  30. Ottavio di Montecelio (Victor IV), 1159–1164  31. Guido di Crema (Paschal III), 1164–1168  32. Giovanni of Struma (Callixtus III), 1168–1178  33. Lanzo of Sezza (Innocent III), 1179–1180  34. Pietro Rainalducci (Nicholas V), antipope in Rome, 1328–1330  35. Robert of Geneva (Clement VII), antipope of the Avignon line, 20 September 1378 – 16 September 1394  36. Pedro de Luna (Benedict XIII), antipope of the Avignon line, 1394–1423  37. Pietro Philarghi Alexander V, antipope of the Pisan line, 1409–1410  38. Baldassare Cossa (John XXIII), antipope of the Pisan line, 1410–1415  39. Gil Sánchez Muñoz (Clement VIII), antipope of the Avignon line, 1423–1429  40. Bernard Garnier (the first Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1425–c. 1429  41. Jean Carrier (the second Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1430–1437 42.  Duke Amadeus VIII of Savoy (Felix V), 5 November 1439 – 7 April 1449  (Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia)   
One of the most notorious cases in Church history was that of the Antipope Anacletus II, who reigned in Rome from 1130 to 1138.  Anacletus had been implanted in an uncanonical election after Innocent II, the true pope, had already been chosen.  Despite his invalid and uncanonical election, Antipope Anacletus II gained control of Rome and the support of the majority of the College of Cardinals.  Anacletus held the support of almost the entire populace of Rome, until the true pope regained control of the city in 1138. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, “Anacletus,” Vol. 1, 1907, p. 447.) 


« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 09:12:48 PM by sedevacantist »

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #268 on: January 13, 2016, 09:13:25 PM »
18. Gregory VI, 1012  19. Sylvester III, 1045  20. John Mincius (Benedict X), 1058–1059  21. Pietro Cadalus (Honorius II), 1061–1064  22. Guibert of Ravenna (Clement III), 1080 & 1084–1100  23. Theodoric, 1100–1101  24. Adalbert, 1101  25. Maginulf (Sylvester IV), 1105–1111  26. Maurice Burdanus (Gregory VIII), 1118–1121  27. Thebaldus Buccapecuc (Celestine II) (legitimate but submitted to opposing pope, Honorius II, and afterwards considered an antipope), 1124  28. Pietro Pierleoni (Anacletus II), 1130–1138  29. Gregorio Conti (Victor IV), 1138  30. Ottavio di Montecelio (Victor IV), 1159–1164  31. Guido di Crema (Paschal III), 1164–1168  32. Giovanni of Struma (Callixtus III), 1168–1178  33. Lanzo of Sezza (Innocent III), 1179–1180  34. Pietro Rainalducci (Nicholas V), antipope in Rome, 1328–1330  35. Robert of Geneva (Clement VII), antipope of the Avignon line, 20 September 1378 – 16 September 1394  36. Pedro de Luna (Benedict XIII), antipope of the Avignon line, 1394–1423  37. Pietro Philarghi Alexander V, antipope of the Pisan line, 1409–1410  38. Baldassare Cossa (John XXIII), antipope of the Pisan line, 1410–1415  39. Gil Sánchez Muñoz (Clement VIII), antipope of the Avignon line, 1423–1429  40. Bernard Garnier (the first Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1425–c. 1429  41. Jean Carrier (the second Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1430–1437 42.  Duke Amadeus VIII of Savoy (Felix V), 5 November 1439 – 7 April 1449  (Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia)   
One of the most notorious cases in Church history was that of the Antipope Anacletus II, who reigned in Rome from 1130 to 1138.  Anacletus had been implanted in an uncanonical election after Innocent II, the true pope, had already been chosen.  Despite his invalid and uncanonical election, Antipope Anacletus II gained control of Rome and the support of the majority of the College of Cardinals.  Anacletus held the support of almost the entire populace of Rome, until the true pope regained control of the city in 1138. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, “Anacletus,” Vol. 1, 1907, p. 447.) 

Offline sedevacantist

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #269 on: January 13, 2016, 09:17:55 PM »
Oh yes the Day of Judgment is a winnowing between those who did and did not concern themselves with the Grassy Knoll.
nope, but you folks are insulting me ,calling me a crank because I'm not a sheeple..you'll be judged for being outside the true church

A church without a see is not a church. So unless your claim is that you yourself are the Divine Judge, I'm not concerned.
we have over 1900 years of the magisterium to follow

St. Athanasius: "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

You didn't really address Porter's point the way I would have if I were you, instead preferring to liken yourself to some sort of proto-Protestant.
I'm a proto-protestant because I quoted St Athanasius? what do you consider yourself?

I am Orthodox. 

I do not consider you a proto-Protestant because you quoted St Athanasius.  I consider you a proto-Protestant because you cavalierly dismiss what you would impose on us and appeal to "over 1900 years of magisterium to follow" to justify yourself.
I'll repeat myself, the orthodox are not wrong simply for rejecting Rome, they are wrong because they had no justification to do so, Rome was not in heresy....the fact the Church has no true pope is a sad reality, what do you want me to do about it

How about... recognize that sedevacantism is a mockery of Catholic theology and make a different life choice?
no,it's time you wake up and  do more research into what I'm writing you
In the Gospel, Jesus Christ not only informs us that in the last days the true faith would hardly be found on the Earth, but that “in the holy place” itself there will be “the abomination of desolation” (Mt. 24:15), and a deception so profound that, if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived (Mt. 24:24).  St. Paul says that the man of sin will sit “in the temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4).  The Apocalypse describes in detail the Whore of Babylon, a false bride (i.e. a Counter Church) which arises in the last days in the city of seven hills (Rome) and which spreads spiritual fornication all over the Earth.  The fact that the last days are characterized by a spiritual deception intending to ensnare Catholics proves, rather than disproves, the authenticity of the Catholic Church



In 1903, Pope St. Pius X thought that he might be seeing the beginning of the evils which will fully come to pass in the last days. 
Pope St. Pius X, E Supremi (# 5), Oct. 4, 1903: “… there is good reason to fear lest this great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils which are reserved for the last days; and that there may already be in the world the ‘Son of Perdition’ of whom the Apostle speaks (2 Thess. 2:3).”1 
The New Testament tells us that this deception will happen in the very heart of the Church’s physical structures, in “the Temple of God” (2 Thess. 2:4) and “in the holy place” (Mt. 24:15).  It will arise because people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10). 
In 2 Thessalonians 2, St. Paul speaks of the last days being characterized by a great apostasy that will be the worst ever – even worse than was experienced in the Arian crisis in the 4th century, in which an authentically Catholic priest was hardly to be found. 
Fr. William Jurgens: “At one point in the Church’s history, only a few years before Gregory’s [Nazianz] present preaching (A.D. 380), perhaps the number of Catholic bishops in possession of sees, as opposed to Arian bishops in possession of sees, was no greater than something between 1% and 3% of the total.  Had doctrine been determined by popularity, today we should all be deniers of Christ and opponents of the Spirit.”2   
Fr. William Jurgens: “In the time of the Emperor Valens (4th century), Basil was virtually the only orthodox Bishop in all the East who succeeded in retaining charge of his see… If it has no other importance for modern man, a knowledge of the history of Arianism should demonstrate at least that the Catholic Church takes no account of popularity and numbers in shaping and maintaining doctrine: else, we should long since have had to abandon Basil and Hilary and Athanasius and Liberius and Ossius and call ourselves after Arius.”3   
St. Gregory Nazianz (+380), Against the Arians: “Where are they who revile us for our poverty and pride themselves in their riches?  They who define the Church by numbers and scorn the little flock?”4 
If the Arian crisis – just a prelude to the Great Apostasy – was this extensive, how extensive will the Great Apostasy foretold by Our Lord and Saint Paul be?