Author Topic: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson  (Read 18252 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #135 on: November 15, 2012, 05:50:06 PM »
The Dark Heretic Rises
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2012, 06:00:17 PM »
I also believe in our uniting under common causes like defending ourselves from infidels and heretics.

Like from those heretics who believe in papal supremacy or filioque?
Really? Not very "ecumenical" of you now Mi-khal is it. ;D
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline choy

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2012, 06:09:23 PM »
Really? Not very "ecumenical" of you now Mi-khal is it. ;D

In Orthodoxy, ecumenism doesn't involve sacrificing the Truth. ;)

Offline Peter J

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #138 on: November 15, 2012, 06:11:07 PM »
I also believe in our uniting under common causes like defending ourselves from infidels and heretics.

Like from those heretics who believe in papal supremacy or filioque?
Really? Not very "ecumenical" of you now Mi-khal is it. ;D

That's not really much of a criticism, in view of the way the word "ecumenical" is typically used on this forum.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline stella1990

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #139 on: December 29, 2015, 05:04:05 PM »
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.

True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.

Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.

Regarding "lapsed catholics" I believe SSPX is good in bringing them back to God.

But when you are christian again and strong in your christian values and beliefs you start to question a LOT of things regarding RC thanks to SSPX this time...


Offline stella1990

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #140 on: December 29, 2015, 05:13:59 PM »
In what way? The fact that they are growing? The fact that they have vibrant families with many children, unlike the Novus Ordo? The fact that their Mass is reverent and a billion times more traditional than the Nervous Ordeal? That they are actually missionary and not ecumenising themselves into oblivion?
What do you mean here?
I seriously doubt the truth of the whole thing, as you know, but your painting of traddies is rather grotesque and bears witness to that you cannot possibly have fared much in traddie waters.
I am sure we can dig up Orthodox lunatics as well, but it isn't really fair to call them representative  of your average Orthodox, is it?

Growth has nothing to do with it.  I can cite a few neo-arianist groups that are growing as well.  I don't see how growth in membership proves anything here.  I believe Traditionalism is a fad, and right now it is the "in" thing, that is why there is a growth.  At some point people will grow tired with it with all this hating and complaining and accusing and the obvious disregard for the Pope.  The focus of Traditionalism isn't spiritual growth, but a focus on novelty such as Latin and external practices but completely devoid of the spiritual aspect of it.  I've heard Traditionalists market Latin as some magical language, "the devil hates it, it is very effective for exorcisms."  I have yet heard any Traditionalist explain how one gets to heaven speaking Latin.



Now, close to 2016 I dont believe they are growing.
So called Resistance has split in two or three branches... a lot of apocalypticism, private revelations, cult like mentality, real hatred among williamites and pffeiferrites, internet traditionalist wars, attacks ad hominem, acussations of withcraft and paedophilia...etc...
Fellay branch dont go to any place and If I were a convinced trad closer to Fellay branch RC I would go to an FSSP or indult mass rather than Fellay and his oddities... ("I'm inside but outside at the same time").

Offline Severian

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #141 on: December 30, 2015, 03:41:46 AM »
Quote
The Society of St Pius X has confirmed that it has expelled the English Bishop Richard Williamson.

Bishop Williamson, 72, one of four men illicitly ordained in 1988 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in Écône, Switzerland, has been a controversial figure, particularly for his views on Jews, who he has called the “enemies of Christ”.
News flash: they are.

Cf. the New Testament
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline biro

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #142 on: December 30, 2015, 03:54:35 AM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?

Offline Severian

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #143 on: December 30, 2015, 03:58:14 AM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 03:58:42 AM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #144 on: December 30, 2015, 05:54:20 AM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #145 on: December 30, 2015, 12:25:19 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.

There's a difference between denial and lack of belief. 

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #146 on: December 30, 2015, 12:41:43 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
Even you know that quoting Scripture is, for even you do it.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Severian

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #147 on: December 30, 2015, 12:53:27 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline biro

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #148 on: December 30, 2015, 12:57:12 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
Even you know that quoting Scripture is, for even you do it.

I asked about anti-Semitism. Don't be cutesy.

Offline biro

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #149 on: December 30, 2015, 12:57:43 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.

Give me a break.  ::)

Offline Alpo

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #150 on: December 30, 2015, 01:00:05 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.

Except that you just did. Unless you have a habit of calling your neighbours as enemies of Christ.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Severian

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #151 on: December 30, 2015, 01:08:17 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.

Except that you just did. Unless you have a habit of calling your neighbours as enemies of Christ.
OK then, Jews, Muhammadans, Pagans, heretics, schismatics and my own sinful self are all the enemies of Christ.
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline biro

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #152 on: December 30, 2015, 01:16:16 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.

Except that you just did. Unless you have a habit of calling your neighbours as enemies of Christ.
OK then, Jews, Muhammadans, Pagans, heretics, schismatics and my own sinful self are all the enemies of Christ.

 ::)

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #153 on: December 30, 2015, 01:36:32 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
Being anti-Arab is now all the rage at OC.net now?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #154 on: December 30, 2015, 01:41:52 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
Even you know that quoting Scripture is, for even you do it.

I asked about anti-Semitism. Don't be cutesy.
For what it's worth, your defintion of "anti-semitism" doesn't apply here.

Anti-Semitism in the classic sense is hatred of a person/people simply for the fact that they are ethnically a "jew".

That is antithetical to Catholicism and anything that Bp Willamson ever stated.

Or anyone else in this thread from what  I've read.

Get your facts straight.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 01:42:18 PM by Charles Martel »
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #155 on: December 30, 2015, 01:47:53 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
Being anti-Arab is now all the rage at OC.net now?

We've had some posters who are.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #156 on: December 30, 2015, 01:50:17 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
Even you know that quoting Scripture is, for even you do it.

I asked about anti-Semitism. Don't be cutesy.
Don't tell me not to be cutesy. FWIW, I said what I said because Severian did not express anti-Semitism in any form. What he did in citing Scripture was prove a valid point that has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #157 on: December 30, 2015, 01:54:55 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.

Except that you just did. Unless you have a habit of calling your neighbours as enemies of Christ.
OK then, Jews, Muhammadans, Pagans, heretics, schismatics and my own sinful self are all the enemies of Christ.

 ::)
Do us all a big favor and stop with the dismissive, low content posts. If you wish to object to what someone else posts, please post a reasoned explanation for your objection. These "Gimme a break", "::)" shows of contempt are just juvenile and annoying. You're much too intelligent to make yourself look as irrational as this.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 02:15:03 PM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Severian

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #158 on: December 30, 2015, 01:59:43 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
Even you know that quoting Scripture is, for even you do it.

I asked about anti-Semitism. Don't be cutesy.
Don't tell me not to be cutesy. FWIW, I said what I said because Severian did not express anti-Semitism in any form. What he did in citing Scripture was prove a valid point that has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
Thank you, good sir.
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline biro

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #159 on: December 30, 2015, 02:23:36 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.

Except that you just did. Unless you have a habit of calling your neighbours as enemies of Christ.
OK then, Jews, Muhammadans, Pagans, heretics, schismatics and my own sinful self are all the enemies of Christ.

 ::)
Do us all a big favor and stop with the dismissive, low content posts. If you wish to object to what someone else posts, please post a reasoned explanation for your objection. These "Gimme a break", "::)" shows of contempt are just juvenile and annoying. You're much too intelligent to make yourself look as irrational as this.

Severian repeatedly posts anti-Semitic drivel, but when I roll my eyes at him, I'm juvenile and annoying.

Yep, you've got your priorities straight.

You have just helped me make a very important decision; God willing, I get it accomplished today.

Spare me the backhanded compliments. I know we don't like each other, let's just be honest.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #160 on: December 30, 2015, 02:30:46 PM »
Severian repeatedly posts anti-Semitic drivel,
Show me where, for I've never seen it.

but when I roll my eyes at him, I'm juvenile and annoying.
There are much more intelligent, adult ways of expressing your disapproval of one's anti-Semitism, even if it is real, than posts that do nothing but roll your eyes.

Yep, you've got your priorities straight.
Yes, I try to keep them that way. Maybe you could learn from that.

You have just helped me make a very important decision; God willing, I get it accomplished today.
I hope you do.

Spare me the backhanded compliments.
No, it's not a backhanded compliment. I actually remember the "good old days" when you consistently expressed yourself much more rationally and with much less histrionic. I know what you're capable of when you don't let your contemptuous emotions enslave you.

I know we don't like each other, let's just be honest.
I like what you were years ago and think you capable of bringing that back.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 02:32:52 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Severian

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #161 on: December 30, 2015, 03:42:47 PM »
Severian repeatedly posts anti-Semitic drivel, but when I roll my eyes at him, I'm juvenile and annoying.
I have espoused theological anti-Judaism and political anti-Zionism many times, I will concede this. But I don't seem to recall ever espousing antisemitism. In fact, I've repeatedly said that any religious Jew who accepts Christ is our brother. Of course, this isn't exclusive to the Jews. All must accept the Only-begotten Son, for His is the only name by which any man will be saved.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 03:49:15 PM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #162 on: December 30, 2015, 11:40:22 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.
Certainly, it's not my intention to single them out.

Intention is not the point, rather how it is perceived. The point is that theological anti-Juadaism rhetoric has a far different context and connotation today (due to certain well known historical patterns and events) than it did when the Christians were the persecuted underdogs against a Jewish majority. It changes the parameters of what's responsible and what's not, especially if you don't want to wind up an unwitting fellow traveler of a Holocaust-denying buffoon like Charles.


This is not the Private Forum, Volnutt. That means you are not permitted to insult other posters as you have done here. I'm sure you know this, seeing how you've been warned twice before for ad hominem attacks. Therefore, I am giving you this 40-point warning to cease and desist from posting such insults again on the Public Forum. If you wish to appeal this warning, please PM me.

- PeterTheAleut
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 12:50:17 AM by PeterTheAleut »
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #163 on: December 30, 2015, 11:44:14 PM »
Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:22

That's true of everyone who doesn't believe. Singling out the Jews as though the intervening 2000 years never happened and they're nowadays not more often the persecuted rather than the persecutors is at best pointless and at worse signals certain, shall we say, ulterior motives.

There's a difference between denial and lack of belief.

Fair enough, but that means Severian's point is even further negated. I doubt there's very many Jews who stay in their religion just to spite Christ.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

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Online seekeroftruth777

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #164 on: December 30, 2015, 11:49:21 PM »
didn't Bishop Williamson start a offshot of SSPX somewhere in Latin America? I just remember it was a big stink when he denied the holocaust, and was promting 9/11 conspiracy theories, because the SSPX was talking to the Vatican. Is there any Orthodox equvelant to Bishop Williamson out there?

Offline stella1990

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #165 on: December 31, 2015, 11:17:14 AM »
i BELIEVE THE PROBLEM WITH MW IS NOT HIS REVISIONIST VIEWS ABOUT HOLOCAUST.

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #166 on: December 31, 2015, 11:32:25 AM »
i BELIEVE THE PROBLEM WITH MW IS NOT HIS REVISIONIST VIEWS ABOUT HOLOCAUST.
Please turn your caps lock key off. Otherwise you look as if you're shouting.
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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #167 on: December 31, 2015, 11:51:26 AM »
i BELIEVE THE PROBLEM WITH MW IS NOT HIS REVISIONIST VIEWS ABOUT HOLOCAUST.

What could be worse?

Offline stella1990

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #168 on: December 31, 2015, 12:30:00 PM »
i BELIEVE THE PROBLEM WITH MW IS NOT HIS REVISIONIST VIEWS ABOUT HOLOCAUST.
Please turn your caps lock key off. Otherwise you look as if you're shouting.

Sorry.


Offline stella1990

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #169 on: December 31, 2015, 12:51:51 PM »
i BELIEVE THE PROBLEM WITH MW IS NOT HIS REVISIONIST VIEWS ABOUT HOLOCAUST.

What could be worse?


A lot of things.

In my honest opinion:

One thing is being a revisionist (a lot of people is revisionist towards the Holodomor and that not makes them communists at all so being revisionist about Holocaust IMHO doesnt make you a nazi or apologist of murder as long as you examine things very carefully ). You can express your opinion about numbers and methods without denying the whole horrible murder.

Other is being an Holocaust denialist, denying ALL Holocaust and saying "No jew died in WWII".

Other is being a nazi and being happy about jewish murders and saying "oh, jews deserve that". (Usually denialists and nazis can go together).

In that TV interview BW was more a revisionist than a denialist IMHO.

Does that make him a good guy? Not in my opinion. Why? Because he has said a lot of bad things and his thought line represents the most reactionary catholic teaching only below radical sedevacantists... and scares me to death, but not for the "revisionist" thing expressed on TV.

No one can acuse me of being anti jewish. In the thread about "RC and jewish conversions" I was very angry about RC historical policies towards jewish people. I expressed that RC must leave jews alone because they are hiper sensitive because of past sufferings. Not all jews are bad people and you cannot force conversions on people. I said that very clearly and that I'm also ashamed because RC historical treatment of jews. We cannot view jews as intrinsically evil people and Christ killers. Not all jews killed Christ and today's jews are not guilty for 1st century sanhedrin decisions and even not all sanhedrin was against Christ (Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimatea). Bad jewish people pleaded for Christ murder instead of Barrabas... but not all jewish people...so...

Well:

*In that specific interview BW wasnt denialist IMHO, only revisionist
*He could be a denialist but we cannot said this based only in that TV interview.
*He has very wrong views about jews because he follows reactionary RC teachings: jews as intrinsically evil, Christ killers and all of that so I'm not his fan of supporter. We know that not for his TV interview but for his speeches, Eleison Comments, and a lot of commentaries of SPPXers and ex members of that congregation.
*He also has very misoginystic views. Women should not go to university in his opinion."Ideas are not for true girls".
*His love for Ancient Regime: this includes believing in slavery as a good system?????????
*His beliefs about Inquisition as a good thing.

Etc etc etc

So:  the problem is much worse than expressing revisionist views in TV ... he has a LOT of trash ideas... that I will not support ever...including ones about jews...  but I have to make the distinction between revisionism and denialism... because we apply revisionism to a lot of other historical events... involving murder ... so don't be hipocritical.. IMHO.

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #170 on: December 31, 2015, 01:00:30 PM »
i BELIEVE THE PROBLEM WITH MW IS NOT HIS REVISIONIST VIEWS ABOUT HOLOCAUST.

What could be worse?


A lot of things.

In my honest opinion:

One thing is being a revisionist (a lot of people is revisionist towards the Holodomor and that not makes them communists at all so being revisionist about Holocaust IMHO doesnt make you a nazi or apologist of murder as long as you examine things very carefully ). You can express your opinion about numbers and methods without denying the whole horrible murder.

You're technically not wrong, especially in regard to legitimate historiography. But I think in this particular case, 9 times out of 10 the people calling themselves "Holocaust revisionists" are just trying to deceive.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #171 on: December 31, 2015, 01:22:28 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.

Offline stella1990

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #172 on: December 31, 2015, 02:11:27 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.

I wasnt call you specifically an hipocrite and Im sorry if I expressed it in a wrong way.



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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #173 on: January 02, 2016, 02:25:01 PM »
Quote
The Society of St Pius X has confirmed that it has expelled the English Bishop Richard Williamson.

Bishop Williamson, 72, one of four men illicitly ordained in 1988 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in Écône, Switzerland, has been a controversial figure, particularly for his views on Jews, who he has called the “enemies of Christ”.
News flash: they are.

Cf. the New Testament

Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?

What, didn't you ever read what Galatians 3:28 says: "Neither Jew nor Greek"? (Although we seem to be a little slow with our anti-grecoism.)
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #174 on: January 02, 2016, 02:26:30 PM »
Quote
The Society of St Pius X has confirmed that it has expelled the English Bishop Richard Williamson.

Bishop Williamson, 72, one of four men illicitly ordained in 1988 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in Écône, Switzerland, has been a controversial figure, particularly for his views on Jews, who he has called the “enemies of Christ”.
News flash: they are.

Cf. the New Testament

Is anti-Semitism a cool thing on this board now?

What, didn't you ever read what Galatians 3:28 says: "Neither Jew nor Greek"? (Although we seem to be a little slow with our anti-grecoism.)

That ^^ was a joke BTW. (I have to say that because otherwise, I feel certain, someone who doesn't get it will post a response to "explain".)
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #175 on: January 02, 2016, 03:32:53 PM »
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.

True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.

Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.

Regarding "lapsed catholics" I believe SSPX is good in bringing them back to God.

But when you are christian again and strong in your christian values and beliefs you start to question a LOT of things regarding RC thanks to SSPX this time...

That was certainly true for me. (I don't mean that I was involved with the SSPX, but looking into traditionalist ideas helped me to question things.)
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #176 on: January 02, 2016, 03:35:41 PM »
Intention is not the point, rather how it is perceived. The point is that theological anti-Juadaism rhetoric has a far different context and connotation today (due to certain well known historical patterns and events) than it did when the Christians were the persecuted underdogs against a Jewish majority.
I redacted your ad hominem.

[sarcasm]Anyway, you sure have an open-minded and objective way of looking at things![/sarcasm]
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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #177 on: January 02, 2016, 10:29:19 PM »
I certainly don't apply revisionism to other things. Don't call me a hypocrite.

I do think Holocaust revisionism is as bad as denial. They aren't different.

If this kind of thing is now normal on the forum or in the church, I have no business being here.
do you believe 6 million jews died during the holocaust?

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #178 on: January 03, 2016, 01:34:46 PM »
Intention is not the point, rather how it is perceived. The point is that theological anti-Juadaism rhetoric has a far different context and connotation today (due to certain well known historical patterns and events) than it did when the Christians were the persecuted underdogs against a Jewish majority.
I redacted your ad hominem.

[sarcasm]Anyway, you sure have an open-minded and objective way of looking at things![/sarcasm]

It's not open-minded to entertain arguments that have been debunked almost as often as Geocentrism, it's just a silly waste of time. And this goes double when seemingly every one of the prominent people pushing those arguments is obviously doing so to advance an (almost always repugnant) agenda.
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Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

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Offline stella1990

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Re: SSPX expels Bishop Williamson
« Reply #179 on: January 06, 2016, 09:58:45 AM »
Tradition will never slip into irrelevance.

True tradition won't.  Thus, the SSPX will slip into irrelevance.
Without men like +Williamson it will.

Bishop Williamson is the greatest reason why not to take the SSPX seriously.  I have yet to meet someone form the SSPX to even make me think about what they teach and do.  In fact, the only thing the SSPX has led me to think about is the validity of teachings of the Catholic Church, themselves included.  While I was never a Traditionalist, the SSPX has played a good part in pushing me towards Orthodoxy.

Regarding "lapsed catholics" I believe SSPX is good in bringing them back to God.

But when you are christian again and strong in your christian values and beliefs you start to question a LOT of things regarding RC thanks to SSPX this time...

That was certainly true for me. (I don't mean that I was involved with the SSPX, but looking into traditionalist ideas helped me to question things.)

For me , too

I came back to Christ thanks to a traditional priest ... I will always have him in my prayers because of this...

This priest is a good man but he has a lot of things that scared me to death... and 90% of his speeches are related to chastisement, SSPX problems, Fatima, the evils of Bergoglio... I don't find Jesus there... they also talk a lot of the Blessed Virgin but I find this very dangerous also because they talk more about her than Jesus.

And a lot of other stuff... If the RC is the real true church and the ONLY church as they say it's very difficult to believe the only true church remains only in 2-3 small groups that fight among them all the time in the ciber space ... ::) and all the rest are wrong... very difficult to believe...