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Author Topic: International House of prayer/ 24/7 prayer?  (Read 1783 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: October 24, 2012, 10:20:29 AM »

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How do Orthodox Christian think of this Protestant organization,e.g IHOP?

This organization promotes an idea that keep praying and keep worship/ pray more and worship and even 24/7 prayer.

They promote a movement that 24/7 prayer( e.g within24 hours a day, 7 days a week, just keep praying and worshipping without creasing until Jesus come back).What do you think of the movement of 24/7 prayer?Any comment on this movement , e.g 24/7 prayer?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 10:40:50 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 10:48:10 AM »

The Orthodox are called to pray without ceasing.  I know I try to do this (Can be very hard while working) with the Jesus Prayer.
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 11:00:19 AM »

My own experience of the 24/7 prayer movement in college revealed that is quite diverse and embraces all sorts of imaginative, creative, musical, charismatic types of prayer.  Spontaneous prayer is strongly encouraged.   These practices of prayer don't seem in line with orthodox practice.  I could be wrong.
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walter1234
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 11:03:24 AM »

My own experience of the 24/7 prayer movement in college revealed that is quite diverse and embraces all sorts of imaginative, creative, musical, charismatic types of prayer.  Spontaneous prayer is strongly encouraged.   These practices of prayer don't seem in line with orthodox practice.  I could be wrong.

What is Orthodox Practice of prayer?

What is the difference between Orthodox and Non-Orthodox practice of prayer?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 11:03:56 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 11:08:04 AM »

My own experience of the 24/7 prayer movement in college revealed that is quite diverse and embraces all sorts of imaginative, creative, musical, charismatic types of prayer.  Spontaneous prayer is strongly encouraged.   These practices of prayer don't seem in line with orthodox practice.  I could be wrong.

What is Orthodox Practice of prayer?
Say words to God.
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 11:13:45 AM »

My own experience of the 24/7 prayer movement in college revealed that is quite diverse and embraces all sorts of imaginative, creative, musical, charismatic types of prayer.  Spontaneous prayer is strongly encouraged.   These practices of prayer don't seem in line with orthodox practice.  I could be wrong.

What is Orthodox Practice of prayer?
Say words to God.
More detail?
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 11:21:09 AM »

Quote

How do Orthodox Christian think of this Protestant organization,e.g IHOP?

This organization promotes an idea that keep praying and keep worship/ pray more and worship and even 24/7 prayer.

They promote a movement that 24/7 prayer( e.g within24 hours a day, 7 days a week, just keep praying and worshipping without creasing until Jesus come back).What do you think of the movement of 24/7 prayer?Any comment on this movement , e.g 24/7 prayer?

IHOP is led by a self-proclaimed prophet. No amount of bad music can make up for that.
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walter1234
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 11:46:18 AM »

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What is Orthodox Practice of prayer?

What is the difference between Orthodox and Non-Orthodox practice of prayer?

Can somebody answer me these questions?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 11:46:53 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 02:00:04 PM »

There are a few types of typical prayer

Liturgical or corporate prayer This includes all forms intercessory, psalmody, thanks....
This doesn't mean that these prayes are only said with others but they are usually pre written, or what I would call Oldies but Goodies. This also includes the prays of the hours I think where we consecrate certain hours of the day to Christ

Praying with words privately is considered the first step in personal prayer

Next is mental prayer this can be the same as above only internalized( the first step of personal prayer is usually encouraged before this)

Beyond this is prayer of the heart or wordless prayer but very few attain to this level and I'm not sure I understand it well enough to even elaborate on it at all
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 02:01:32 PM »

I'm not a fan of such prayer flash mobs.
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 03:14:05 PM »

My own experience of the 24/7 prayer movement in college revealed that is quite diverse and embraces all sorts of imaginative, creative, musical, charismatic types of prayer.  Spontaneous prayer is strongly encouraged.   These practices of prayer don't seem in line with orthodox practice.  I could be wrong.

What is Orthodox Practice of prayer?
Say words to God.
More detail?
I’m not trying to be vague, but you’re over thinking it. 

Generally speaking, Orthodoxy shies away from such flashy, emotion-driven acts of “prayer” as you have described because they are driven by the feelings such acts elicit, which leads to deception.

Though I don't really love this webpage, this is a good start describing the practices some Orthodox Christians use: http://www.orthodoxprayer.org/Daily%20Prayer%20Basics.html

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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 02:56:23 PM »

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What is the usage of prayer book?Why it is so important to Orthodox Christians?

Without a prayer book, Can Orthodox Christians still learn how to pray?

Do Orthodox Christians have to follow everything the prayer book teach to pray?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 03:00:25 PM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 03:18:05 PM »

Walter my dear friend there is nothing that a Orthodox Christian HAS to do when it comes to prayer, like someones forcing them to pray a certain way, but the use of a prayer book and a daily prayer dicipline is a tried and tested way over the centuries to deepen ones relationship with the Blessed Trinity. You need to realize that for 2000 years the church has develop certain practices which spring up from the infinite fountain  of inspiration of God's Spirit.
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 03:23:05 PM »

Ever notice that Christian music is like regular music except a lot worse? That is so unfortunate.
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 03:29:37 PM »

Ever notice that Christian music is like regular music except a lot worse? That is so unfortunate.

You should probably define what type of Christian music you're talking about.
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2012, 03:34:21 PM »

My opinion on music is so bias cuz I'm a huge phish phan, so nearly all music except for phish is rather lacking
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« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 06:14:36 PM »

Ever notice that Christian music is like regular music except a lot worse? That is so unfortunate.

You should probably define what type of Christian music you're talking about.

most types the majority of the time. i suppose sometimes there are exceptions.
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« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2012, 06:21:36 PM »

My opinion on music is so bias cuz I'm a huge phish phan, so nearly all music except for phish is rather lacking

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« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2012, 09:11:45 PM »

Ever notice that Christian music is like regular music except a lot worse? That is so unfortunate.

You should probably define what type of Christian music you're talking about.

most types the majority of the time. i suppose sometimes there are exceptions.

You do realize that liturgical music would fall under the umbrella of Christian music right?
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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2012, 10:32:32 PM »

The IHOP idea is a good idea, kind of like some of what happens in our monasteries and convents except with less discipline. Seriously, I think there are some very sincere people in them and that God is using them for things. But as I read from someone on Mount Athos monks have been engaged in 24 hour a day prayer and worship for a thousand years its not the new thing the Protestants would likely imagine it to be.

Again as to IHOP one description I've heard of it involves a room with a news ticker constantly putting up prayer requests from all over the world, and always people there praying for them, this I think can't be a totally bad thing. Same for the praise bands. It may not compare to Orthodox worship which I wouldn't want to change but even if there are some bad apples there, and I'm not saying there are, but if there are I think there are many more people who are very sincerely worshiping God and anytime your doing that with all your heart I don't think it can be all bad.

As to Orthodox prayer the level one as someone called it is scripted but it teaches us things. It teaches us how to view God, how to view ourselves in relationship to God. Priorities in prayer etc. and as part of the Sacred Tradition it may even teach us things we may not learn elsewhere. Not that there's no room for unscripted "pouring your heart out to God" prayer, but even that can be informed, educated, and improved upon by what we learn from the scripted prayers.
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2012, 11:08:59 PM »

Ever notice that Christian music is like regular music except a lot worse? That is so unfortunate.

You should probably define what type of Christian music you're talking about.

most types the majority of the time. i suppose sometimes there are exceptions.

You do realize that liturgical music would fall under the umbrella of Christian music right?

my bad. i dont consider "liturgical music" to be like regular music.  i figured people here would understand what I meant.
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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 10:12:04 AM »

The IHOP idea is a good idea, kind of like some of what happens in our monasteries and convents except with less discipline. Seriously, I think there are some very sincere people in them and that God is using them for things. But as I read from someone on Mount Athos monks have been engaged in 24 hour a day prayer and worship for a thousand years its not the new thing the Protestants would likely imagine it to be.

Again as to IHOP one description I've heard of it involves a room with a news ticker constantly putting up prayer requests from all over the world, and always people there praying for them, this I think can't be a totally bad thing. Same for the praise bands. It may not compare to Orthodox worship which I wouldn't want to change but even if there are some bad apples there, and I'm not saying there are, but if there are I think there are many more people who are very sincerely worshiping God and anytime your doing that with all your heart I don't think it can be all bad.

As to Orthodox prayer the level one as someone called it is scripted but it teaches us things. It teaches us how to view God, how to view ourselves in relationship to God. Priorities in prayer etc. and as part of the Sacred Tradition it may even teach us things we may not learn elsewhere. Not that there's no room for unscripted "pouring your heart out to God" prayer, but even that can be informed, educated, and improved upon by what we learn from the scripted prayers.

The Monks on Mount Athos have practice 24 / 7prayer and worship for thousand years?    (Unbelievable)

Do they still practice 24 / 7Hour prayers and worship today?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 10:19:42 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 10:19:43 AM »

The IHOP idea is a good idea, kind of like some of what happens in our monasteries and convents except with less discipline. Seriously, I think there are some very sincere people in them and that God is using them for things. But as I read from someone on Mount Athos monks have been engaged in 24 hour a day prayer and worship for a thousand years its not the new thing the Protestants would likely imagine it to be.

Again as to IHOP one description I've heard of it involves a room with a news ticker constantly putting up prayer requests from all over the world, and always people there praying for them, this I think can't be a totally bad thing. Same for the praise bands. It may not compare to Orthodox worship which I wouldn't want to change but even if there are some bad apples there, and I'm not saying there are, but if there are I think there are many more people who are very sincerely worshiping God and anytime your doing that with all your heart I don't think it can be all bad.

As to Orthodox prayer the level one as someone called it is scripted but it teaches us things. It teaches us how to view God, how to view ourselves in relationship to God. Priorities in prayer etc. and as part of the Sacred Tradition it may even teach us things we may not learn elsewhere. Not that there's no room for unscripted "pouring your heart out to God" prayer, but even that can be informed, educated, and improved upon by what we learn from the scripted prayers.

Mount Athos monks has practice 24-hour prayer and worship for thousand years?    (Unbelievable)

Do they still practice 24-Hour prayers and worship today?
Yes.
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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2012, 10:34:14 AM »

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On Easter Sunday, "60 Minutes" profiled many of the Orthodox monks that have dedicated their lives to following the words and deeds of Christ. It's a job they take seriously. Prayers have been offered at Mount Athos every day, with no interruption, for more than a thousand years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20056985-10391704/how-do-mount-athos-monks-stay-so-healthy/

Cannot's believe!! Shocked
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2012, 10:40:50 AM »

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It's not an easy life - the monks don't have wives or children. In fact, women aren't allowed on the property at all. And the monks rarely leave, not even for the funerals of their closest loved ones.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20056985-10391704/how-do-mount-athos-monks-stay-so-healthy/



Why don't the monks (on Mount Athos) marry and have wives or children? Is this their choice or the teaching of Orthodox?
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2012, 10:55:37 AM »

Quote
It's not an easy life - the monks don't have wives or children. In fact, women aren't allowed on the property at all. And the monks rarely leave, not even for the funerals of their closest loved ones.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20056985-10391704/how-do-mount-athos-monks-stay-so-healthy/



Why don't the monks on Mount Athos marry and have wives or children? Is this their choice or the teaching of Orthodox?

Because they're monks. Of course it's their choice. Some Orthodox people choose to be celibate and become monks or nuns. Some of these (monks only - there are no nuns on Mount Athos) go to a monastery on Mount Athos.

James
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2012, 10:56:05 AM »

There are undoubtedly many well-meaning people in this organization, I will not disparage their devotion in prayer. I am inclined to believe that God will honour those prayers to the extent that they are good and profitable to salvation (in the Orthodox sense, of course).

However, as an organization, this is nothing more than another Protestant innovation.

Their statement of faith puts the Bible (66 books exactly and only, mind you!) ahead of God. We Orthodox would hold firmly that Scripture comes from God. IHOP believes that God comes from the Scriptures. In that, they are like Muslims and Mormons.

There are many other troubling matters in their statement of faith, for example:
Quote
We believe that Adam was originally created in the image of God, righteous and without sin. As a consequence of his disobedience, Adam’s posterity is born subject to both imputed and inherent sin, and all humans are therefore, by nature and choice, the children of wrath, justly condemned in the sight of God, wholly unable to save themselves or to contribute in any way to their acceptance by God.
(emphasis added)
Apparently, they missed John 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." (NKJV) The verses that follow about condemnation relate to belief, which is a choice - we are not condemned simply because we were born human.

I would not associate with them in worship and prayer, nor encourage anyone to do do.
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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2012, 11:01:49 AM »

Quote
It's not an easy life - the monks don't have wives or children. In fact, women aren't allowed on the property at all. And the monks rarely leave, not even for the funerals of their closest loved ones.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20056985-10391704/how-do-mount-athos-monks-stay-so-healthy/



Why don't the monks on Mount Athos marry and have wives or children? Is this their choice or the teaching of Orthodox?

Because they're monks. Of course it's their choice. Some Orthodox people choose to be celibate and become monks or nuns. Some of these (monks only - there are no nuns on Mount Athos) go to a monastery on Mount Athos.

James

Do ALL Monks prohibit to marry in Orthodox Church?
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2012, 11:03:34 AM »

Quote
It's not an easy life - the monks don't have wives or children. In fact, women aren't allowed on the property at all. And the monks rarely leave, not even for the funerals of their closest loved ones.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20056985-10391704/how-do-mount-athos-monks-stay-so-healthy/



Why don't the monks on Mount Athos marry and have wives or children? Is this their choice or the teaching of Orthodox?

Because they're monks. Of course it's their choice. Some Orthodox people choose to be celibate and become monks or nuns. Some of these (monks only - there are no nuns on Mount Athos) go to a monastery on Mount Athos.

James

Do ALL Monks prohibit to marry in Orthodox Church?

Yes... Although I'm not sure I'd say 'prohibited' as it's a voluntary decision to become a monastic in the first place. It's part and parcel of the definition of monk - monks and nuns are celibate. If they weren't celibate they wouldn't be monks or nuns.

James
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2012, 11:05:23 AM »

Do ALL Monks prohibit to marry in Orthodox Church?

That's pretty much the definition of what a monk is.
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« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2012, 11:07:44 AM »

There are undoubtedly many well-meaning people in this organization, I will not disparage their devotion in prayer. I am inclined to believe that God will honour those prayers to the extent that they are good and profitable to salvation (in the Orthodox sense, of course).

However, as an organization, this is nothing more than another Protestant innovation.

Their statement of faith puts the Bible (66 books exactly and only, mind you!) ahead of God. We Orthodox would hold firmly that Scripture comes from God. IHOP believes that God comes from the Scriptures. In that, they are like Muslims and Mormons.
In IHOP's defense, I wouldn't read anything that sinister into how they have chosen to order the points of their creed. I also see no evidence that IHOP believes God comes from the Scriptures.
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« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2012, 11:09:51 AM »

Quote
On Easter Sunday, "60 Minutes" profiled many of the Orthodox monks that have dedicated their lives to following the words and deeds of Christ. It's a job they take seriously. Prayers have been offered at Mount Athos every day, with no interruption, for more than a thousand years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20056985-10391704/how-do-mount-athos-monks-stay-so-healthy/

Cannot's believe!! Shocked
What's not to believe?
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« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2012, 11:10:50 AM »

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If you are already a priest - no. However, if one is married (first marriage only), he can still become a priest.
Eastern Orthodox Priests are allowed to marry prior to ordination to one woman only. If the wife dies, the priest is unable to marry again or risk losing his office of Priesthood.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_Eastern_Orthodox_priests_marry


Why can't orthodox Priest and monks marry? Why can't the Priest and monks  marry and serve God with their wives together?

What's wrong if a priest have a marriage?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 11:11:28 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2012, 11:15:00 AM »

Quote
On Easter Sunday, "60 Minutes" profiled many of the Orthodox monks that have dedicated their lives to following the words and deeds of Christ. It's a job they take seriously. Prayers have been offered at Mount Athos every day, with no interruption, for more than a thousand years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20056985-10391704/how-do-mount-athos-monks-stay-so-healthy/

Cannot's believe!! Shocked
What's not to believe?

24/7 praying and worshipping movement is a hot topic only in some of Chrismatic Church in these recent years. I really cannot believe that Orthodox Church have started and procceded this movement for more than 1000 years !!!! It's amagzing!!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Shocked Shocked

By the way, I still do not understand why a priest and monks cannot marry , and serve God together with His wives. What 's wrong if a priest and Monks have a marriges?

( In protestant, Pastor can have a marriage with one wife freely.)
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« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2012, 11:23:39 AM »

Quote
If you are already a priest - no. However, if one is married (first marriage only), he can still become a priest.
Eastern Orthodox Priests are allowed to marry prior to ordination to one woman only. If the wife dies, the priest is unable to marry again or risk losing his office of Priesthood.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_Eastern_Orthodox_priests_marry


Why can't orthodox Priest and monks marry? Why can't the Priest and monks  marry and serve God with their wives together?

What's wrong if a priest have a marriage?

You seem to be confused as to what a monk is. Monks are not (usually) priests. Some monks are ordained as priests and these are, of course, not married. Usually the monks who are ordained will serve as priests in the monasteries but most Orthodox priests are not monks and you will find that the majority of parish priests are married.

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« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2012, 11:25:09 AM »

Priests can't marry because sacraments are listed in a separate cycle. You cannot take Eucharist unless you are baptised and chrismated, you cannot get ordained until you participated in the Eucharist... Priesthood requires most of the experience and knowledge so it's the last sacrament one can take during life (I mean, among the ones that are takes once).

Why can't monks marry? Being means to dispose own personality, will and attachment to earthly issues. That's why. It's not just a funny name. You can also ask why football players cannot grab the ball in their hands and toss it.
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« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2012, 11:31:30 AM »

Priests can't marry because sacraments are listed in a separate cycle. You cannot take Eucharist unless you are baptised and chrismated, you cannot get ordained until you participated in the Eucharist... Priesthood requires most of the experience and knowledge so it's the last sacrament one can take during life (I mean, among the ones that are takes once).

Why can't monks marry? Being means to dispose own personality, will and attachment to earthly issues. That's why. It's not just a funny name. You can also ask why football players cannot grab the ball in their hands and toss it.

Just to clarify for you Walter - priests cannot marry after they are ordained. Married men can be and are ordained to the priesthood (not sure if this would have been clear to you from what Michał Kalina posted). In other words, men can choose whether to marry or become a monk before being ordained. After ordination, however, a priest cannot marry.

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« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2012, 11:33:46 AM »

The Orthodox Acoemetae were the first who had prayers 24/7.
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« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2012, 11:55:01 AM »

There are undoubtedly many well-meaning people in this organization, I will not disparage their devotion in prayer. I am inclined to believe that God will honour those prayers to the extent that they are good and profitable to salvation (in the Orthodox sense, of course).

However, as an organization, this is nothing more than another Protestant innovation.

Their statement of faith puts the Bible (66 books exactly and only, mind you!) ahead of God. We Orthodox would hold firmly that Scripture comes from God. IHOP believes that God comes from the Scriptures. In that, they are like Muslims and Mormons.
In IHOP's defense, I wouldn't read anything that sinister into how they have chosen to order the points of their creed. I also see no evidence that IHOP believes God comes from the Scriptures.
I know I over-simplified, but we've been through the "Bible first, God second" matter in many threads about Solā Scripturā. That order does establish the framework that leads to the development of other errors such as the one I cited earlier.
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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2012, 12:08:44 PM »

Why can't orthodox Priest and monks marry?

Priests can marry.

A monk is what you call someone who chooses not to marry.

So what you're asking is, "Why can't the people who choose not to marry get married?" which is kind of silly.
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« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2012, 12:27:30 PM »

I know the difference of Monks and Priest now.

And I think quite a lot of Chrismatic and Pentecostal Christians will be shocked if they know Orthodox Church has started and proceeded the 724 praying and worship for more than a thousand years!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 12:29:05 PM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2012, 12:50:56 PM »

Why can't orthodox Priest and monks marry?

Priests can marry.
Correction: Married men can be ordained, but priests, once ordained, are not permitted to marry without first resigning from the priesthood.
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« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2012, 02:06:04 PM »

Quote
By the way, I still do not understand why a priest and monks cannot marry , and serve God together with His wives.
In the orthodox Church, the wife of a priest often has a very important role in the life of a parish. She helps her husband, organizes events and things like that. The only thing she can't do, is to serve as a priest.  
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 02:06:16 PM by Ansgar » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2012, 03:01:03 PM »

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Only males are allowed entrance into Mount Athos, which is called "Garden of the Virgin" by monks,[4] and Orthodox Christians take precedence in the permit issuance procedure. Only males over the age of 18 who are members of the Eastern Orthodox Church are allowed to live on Athos, either as monks or as workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos

Why can't women or even nuns enter the Mount Athos? Is there any spiritual reason for this prohibition ?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 03:02:03 PM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2012, 03:53:49 PM »

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Only males are allowed entrance into Mount Athos, which is called "Garden of the Virgin" by monks,[4] and Orthodox Christians take precedence in the permit issuance procedure. Only males over the age of 18 who are members of the Eastern Orthodox Church are allowed to live on Athos, either as monks or as workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos

Why can't women or even nuns enter the Mount Athos? Is there any spiritual reason for this prohibition ?

There aren't any convents there. No nuns live there. It's not a place to visit unless you go as either a pilgrim or to live as a monk. Orthodox monks are required to stay celibate.
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