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Severian
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« on: October 27, 2012, 10:50:11 PM » |
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Discuss!
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Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
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primuspilus
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2012, 08:39:06 AM » |
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I tend to steer away from figuring out Revelation but I've always been of the mind that the 2 witnesses are prophets from the OT.
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"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2012, 10:51:18 AM » |
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Sts. Peter and Paul?
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Proof? Remember the quantifiers.
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Theophilos78
Elder
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Faith: Elohimist Christian
Posts: 1,335
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2012, 10:53:32 AM » |
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These two have the power to close up the sky so that it does not rain during the time they are prophesying. They have power to turn the waters to blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague whenever they want. (Revelation 11:6)
Moses and Elijah?
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Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
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Severian
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2012, 01:53:19 PM » |
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Fr. Tadros Yacoub Malaty, citing the authority of Tertullian, St. Hippolytus, St. Augustine and others, argues that the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah. Which makes sense, because Scripture says they were both assumed into heaven without dying.
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Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
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Theophilos78
Elder
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Faith: Elohimist Christian
Posts: 1,335
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2012, 01:57:41 PM » |
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Fr. Tadros Yacoub Malaty, citing the authority of Tertullian, St. Hippolytus, St. Augustine and others, argues that the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah. Which makes sense, because Scripture says they were both assumed into heaven without dying.
But we know almost nothing about Enoch. He was not implied to be even a prophet in the Bible. According to the synoptic accounts, two people who were present at Jesus' transfiguration were Moses and Elijah.  |
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Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
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Severian
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2012, 02:23:32 PM » |
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Fr. Tadros Yacoub Malaty, citing the authority of Tertullian, St. Hippolytus, St. Augustine and others, argues that the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah. Which makes sense, because Scripture says they were both assumed into heaven without dying.
But we know almost nothing about Enoch. He was not implied to be even a prophet in the Bible. According to the synoptic accounts, two people who were present at Jesus' transfiguration were Moses and Elijah. You may have a point. |
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Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
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minasoliman
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2012, 02:43:34 PM » |
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7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. One can see why from this part of the Chapter one would think Enoch and Elijah, since Moses already died. Nevertheless, it's very possible that whoever these 2 are, they may come "in the spirit" of Moses and Elijah, not necessarily literally Moses and Elijah. Because these are unfulfilled prophecies, one just has to brace himself for what is to come and continue in God's will. |
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Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)
If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
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mabsoota
High Elder
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Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 1,782
Kyrie eleison
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2012, 03:01:39 PM » |
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i have been taught in Bible study that it is enoch and elijah, as they have to die, like the rest of us.
but it's not 100% sure.
i'll ask them next time i see them!
(don't hold yr breath for that one...)
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Opus118
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2012, 06:52:42 PM » |
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Discuss!
I have no idea. For the sake of discussion, I do not understand why the prophets have to be Hebrew and from the past. What might seem to be the future could also be the past clearly revealed and intertwined with the future. Why is this question important? Based on the "Is there an Orthodox view of government?" thread currently running and the Vladimir Moss article cited by jckstraw72 (but not necessarily endorsing). If one considers the beast to be democracy, then I would pick Darius the Great and Xerxes the Great. They tried but failed to nip this beast in the bud. I prefer Cyrus the Great, but these two fit the bill better. I read Josephus's History of the Jews, so I could possibly make a somewhat contorted defense for this position. Based on my plastic Mayan Long Count Calendar and my Apocalypse Decoder Ring from the Cracker Jacks 2012 World Series collection, my choice would be HAH Patriarch Bartholomew and Al Gore Pope Benedict XVI. I have no defense for this, but it seems reasonable under the time constraints given. |
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88Devin12
Warned
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 07:24:10 PM » |
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I don't think we should necessarily focus on the literal interpretations of Revelation, there are reasons it isn't read liturgically in our church.
I've heard Enoch & Elijah or Moses & Elijah. The most important thing to realize that for one, there is never ever any kind of reincarnation.
The other important thing is that we cannot and should not put pre-conditions on Christ's second coming like Protestants do. Christ could come as I'm typing this very post, or in a few minutes or even several millenia. There isn't a set of things that have to happen for him to come. The Anti-Christ could be a literal person or he may not be (well, other than Satan). If we stay faithful to Christ & to the Church, we won't fall victim to the Anti-Christ.
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