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Author Topic: Report: US Protestants lose majority status  (Read 4420 times) Average Rating: 0
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augustin717
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« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2012, 01:57:23 PM »

But on a more serious note the rise in the number of people without religious affiliation can be read as a sign of an ever increasing capitalization of the American society; the same capitalist economic forces that reduced the percentage of farmers to about 5 percent, is gonna do the same to at least those religions that are at least partly, pre-capitalist relics.
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« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2012, 02:01:07 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.
an atheist/agnostic  is more fun than a holly roller.

Granted, I've only seen them in documentaries, but Holy Rollers look like a lot of fun to me.
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« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2012, 02:03:30 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.
an atheist/agnostic  is more fun than a holly roller.

Granted, I've only seen them in documentaries, but Holy Rollers look like a lot of fun to me.
Sorry, I see my mistake. i should have just said practicing serious southern baptists.
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« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2012, 02:07:35 PM »

I dont like the ecumenist tendency I seem to see in this thread. Why should we wish people to be heretics, such as Protestants or Roman Catholics? I don't make any difference between those and Agnosticism/Atheism. It is all part of the same Western drift away from the Body of Christ.

Really? No difference between a Protestant or Catholic and an atheist?
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« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2012, 02:12:13 PM »

I dont like the ecumenist tendency I seem to see in this thread. Why should we wish people to be heretics, such as Protestants or Roman Catholics? I don't make any difference between those and Agnosticism/Atheism. It is all part of the same Western drift away from the Body of Christ.

Well, the non-believers at least are more open-minded, that is a chance for Orthodoxy. And I cannot accept the argument that heretics are more "moral"... that's not even backed up by evidence, Evangelicals in the US have a higher divorce rate, for example. And there is no morality in Orthodoxy anyway, there is only ascetism.

You know what, you are kind of right. Cheesy
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« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2012, 03:26:14 PM »

A few things come to mind after reading these posts. First, in regards to the evolution topic. How can Christians--especially us Orthodox--say that we do not deny evolution? If we accept evolution then wouldn't it mean that we accept that God created death? Which is contrary to our teachings that death was only introduced to mankind after the Fall?--and by our own mistake. Secondly, someone mentioned the ecumenism in this thread, and I wanted to comment on that. I personally think that an irreligious society would be better than a Protestant society if irreligiousness and Protestantism were the only options. The reason being that, in my honest experience, atheists/irreligious/agnostics are more likely to give Orthodoxy and/or Roman Catholicism a fair swing and actually try to make an effort to understand it without any preconceived biases opposed to Protestants who have been indoctrinated throughout their entire lives by American Protestant media to believe that Roman Catholics (And certainly Orthodox too, if they knew who we were) are evil and corrupted, full of 'traditions of men' etc. Breaking that anti-Catholic/Orthodox Protestant bias is really difficult and I believe that Protestants would be harder to convert than the irreligious. The way I see it as that we cannot convert neither an irreligious person nor a Protestant unless they are already curious or soul searching, in which case, as I previously stated, I think that the irreligious person is more likely to give Orthodoxy a fair swing and observe it with an open mind without bias whereas a potential Protestant convert will have to keep wrestling with his anti-Catholic/Orthodox bias and might not even convert at all. Plus, judging from every irreligious person I have talked to when Christianity was brought up, they have all admitted to me that at least in regards to Christianity, Orthodoxy and/or Roman Catholicism are obviously the best options.
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« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2012, 05:10:31 PM »

The reason being that, in my honest experience, atheists/irreligious/agnostics are more likely to give Orthodoxy and/or Roman Catholicism a fair swing and actually try to make an effort to understand it without any preconceived biases opposed to Protestants who have been indoctrinated throughout their entire lives by American Protestant media to believe that Roman Catholics (And certainly Orthodox too, if they knew who we were) are evil and corrupted, full of 'traditions of men' etc.

But aren't you a convert from protestantism? How many here are converts from atheism/agnosticism? I bet that there are more converts (relatively) from protestantism than from atheism.
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« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2012, 05:22:09 PM »

But aren't you a convert from protestantism? How many here are converts from atheism/agnosticism? I bet that there are more converts (relatively) from protestantism than from atheism.
Probably, that's because most members of this site are from the United States. In Russia, enter any Orthodox Church, and odds are that a major part of the attendants are converts from Atheism.
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« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2012, 05:24:58 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.
an atheist/agnostic  is more fun than a holly roller.

Granted, I've only seen them in documentaries, but Holy Rollers look like a lot of fun to me.

They died out - no sex.
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« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2012, 05:55:59 PM »

Called this coming a mile away. It's just going to erode even more over the decades. Protestantism is not built to last.
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« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2012, 06:16:28 PM »

The reason being that, in my honest experience, atheists/irreligious/agnostics are more likely to give Orthodoxy and/or Roman Catholicism a fair swing and actually try to make an effort to understand it without any preconceived biases opposed to Protestants who have been indoctrinated throughout their entire lives by American Protestant media to believe that Roman Catholics (And certainly Orthodox too, if they knew who we were) are evil and corrupted, full of 'traditions of men' etc.

But aren't you a convert from protestantism? How many here are converts from atheism/agnosticism? I bet that there are more converts (relatively) from protestantism than from atheism.

My personal experience is that people without a religion, including atheists (of the non-militant type) are more receptive to the idea of Orthodoxy than are most Protestants.
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« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2012, 06:20:00 PM »

Wow. This thread has taken some turns I hadn't expected it to (but probably should have). The evolution stuff is interesting. We make use of some of Dawkins' ideas regarding genetics and memes in some of my linguistics courses (as there are close parallels to these ideas in linguistics, and the fields of biology and linguistics have influenced each other quite a lot, historically). I've never really seen that as intruding on or shaping my religious outlook. For those who see such a strong link, why do you feel that some people who are exposed to those ideas or related ideas can take them on and actually grow in their faith (e.g., me...when I started my getting my degree, I was a Roman Catholic; now I am Orthodox and at the graduate level and working to the Ph.D.), while others are exposed to the same and completely "convert", becoming atheists/agnostics/whatevers? I would not be so arrogant as to assume my own faith is stronger than theirs or anyone's, particularly since I didn't even begin attending an Orthodox church until about 14 months ago, but it is interesting that there is this difference. There is perhaps a comparison to be made between "soft" and "hard" atheism or agnosticism in other parts of the sciences, in that for all the strident posturing of the Dawkins-inspired anti-religion crowd, there are also people, no less well-known on a popular level, like Niel Degrasse-Tyson who has said that he is much more interested in finding out the reasoning of the 15% of scientists who profess some religious belief than sitting comfortably stroking the egos of the 85% that don't (warning: may not be an exact quote, but that is the idea). As someone who is at least tangentially participating in the sciences, I find Degrasse-Tyson's view to be much more...well...scientific, in that his curiosity has prompted him to wonder about exceptions, rather than throwing out a full 15% of the 'sample' because it doesn't fit his preconceived notion of what a "good scientist" will believe. I know, for instance, that if I'm looking at a crosslinguistic sample of 100 languages and 15 of them display some typological peculiarity in common, that's something I'm going to have to address in the process of analyzing the sample, not treat as somehow 'less real' languages or, even worse, exclude because they don't fit my hypothesis or application of a given typological universal. It's okay to have exceptions and "less than perfect fit" (many computational models have been designed specifically to deal with such things), but not okay to have them and not address them.

It seems to me that for as brilliant as Dawkins is in his own field or subfield, in reaching outside of it to apply his ideas to the conversation on the social usefulness of religion (which, as an Orthodox Christian, is not the way I look at religion in the first place, but I digress...) he has an entirely different standard by which he operates when criticizing religion that basically boils down to "I have a lot of credentials, and I believe this and not that, therefore you are stupid." This would never fly in the scientific realm, because it's essentially saying "Nevermind that a significant percentage of people with similar backgrounds do not agree with my particular outlook on this entirely non-scientific (in the sense of "non-falsifiable") question...they're clearly ignorant, or else they'd agree." Roll Eyes
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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2012, 06:23:45 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

American has always projected herself to be far more religious than she ever actually is.

At the turn of the 18th century about 1 in 7 Americans attended church regularly.

Today that number is actually around 1 and 6, an improvement.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2012, 06:28:54 PM »

The evangelicals are a little more vociferous than the rest.
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« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2012, 07:09:34 PM »

It's interesting that the vast majority of "unaffiliated" identify themselves as "nothing in particular" as opposed to atheist or agnostic. At the same time there are large numbers of unaffiliated who attend worship services at least occasionally, who pray, who identify themselves as "spiritual", etc. Yet most, 88% according to the study, are not "looking for a religion that is right for them".

Even more interesting is that when it comes to such beliefs and practices as astrology, reincarnation, and yoga there is no difference between the unaffiliated and the general US public - most of whom are affiliated. That suggests that the churches are not clearly preaching and teaching true Christianity. It would seem that most of the unaffiliated have never seen true Christianity - by which I mean that taught by the Apostles and handed down faithfully through the centuries in Orthodox Christianity.

(And yes, I would expect that these trends are very similar here in Canada.)


I would like to add, I believe it would be interesting to learn just how many converted from Protestant to Catholic or Orthodox.  It seems a large portion of us here are converts.  I am positive this has taken its toll as a result of your observation, not teaching true Christianity.
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2012, 07:12:51 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.
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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2012, 07:16:14 PM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

What is painful and sad is your immediate focus and response to the evolution part of my post and ignoring the rest, and my list was unbelievably short.  It also denies my post, which is fact.  Very sad, and telling.

Evolution is more proven than God.
That's your reply?  Wow, just...wow!
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« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2012, 07:18:06 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.
an atheist/agnostic  is more fun than a holly roller.
Exactly my point.  Thank you for understanding, even if not intentional.  Mull that thought around what I've already posted.
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augustin717
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« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2012, 07:19:07 PM »

Quote
For those who see such a strong link, why do you feel that some people who are exposed to those ideas or related ideas can take them on and actually grow in their faith (e.g., me...when I started my getting my degree, I was a Roman Catholic; now I am Orthodox and at the graduate level and working to the Ph.D.)
By the time you'll be a Ph.D. yo'd have already evolved to the superior step of hyperdoxy. And then you'll clearly see evolution is a Judeo-Masonic plot against Christendom.
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2012, 08:15:57 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

You just did.
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« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2012, 08:16:13 PM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

What is painful and sad is your immediate focus and response to the evolution part of my post and ignoring the rest, and my list was unbelievably short.  It also denies my post, which is fact.  Very sad, and telling.

Evolution is more proven than God.
That's your reply?  Wow, just...wow!

Yes that's my reply - and it's true.
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I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

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« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2012, 08:25:48 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

You just did.
James, are you well brother?  You seem a bit out of sorts lately. 
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« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2012, 09:10:53 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
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« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2012, 12:02:52 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Senseless is calling something fact when you can't prove it, no offense.
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« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2012, 01:04:59 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Senseless is calling something fact when you can't prove it, no offense.

Can you prove love? 

Gotcha
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« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2012, 02:23:13 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Senseless is calling something fact when you can't prove it, no offense.

Can you prove love? 

Gotcha
Is love a scientific theory?  You have gotten no one.
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« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2012, 04:09:51 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Now that I think about it, I never even made an argument about evolution, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.  All I did was ask a few questions to which no answers could be given.  I'm not following how that could be thought of as argument, much less senseless argument.  And since when did voicing an opinion become senseless (this thread topic)?  My goodness, there sure seems to be a lot of elitism spreading around.
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« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2012, 09:49:34 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Senseless is calling something fact when you can't prove it, no offense.

Can you prove love? 

Gotcha

Nope.  That is why it is an opinion.  At least that's what my middle school teacher told me...



...when I told her that I loved her.
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serb1389
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« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2012, 11:41:57 AM »

So my point kind of was that you cannot put love through the scientific proof model because if you did it would be proven that it does not exist.  Yet we all know without a shadow of a doubt that it does exist.

Same thing with God.  You try putting him through the scientific model...it doesn't work. 

I will say also that the countless miracles I have seen, the incorruptible bodies of the saints, are proof enough for me. 

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Senseless is calling something fact when you can't prove it, no offense.

Can you prove love? 

Gotcha

Nope.  That is why it is an opinion.  At least that's what my middle school teacher told me...



...when I told her that I loved her.
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« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2012, 11:42:39 AM »

And it is not an opinion.  I don't think that I love someone.  I know it
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« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2012, 12:04:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So my point kind of was that you cannot put love through the scientific proof model because if you did it would be proven that it does not exist.  Yet we all know without a shadow of a doubt that it does exist.




Have you read the wonderful book A Theory of Love? It crafts the underlying psychology and neurochemistry behind our human experience of "love" both deeply and romantically. 

On top of the depth of actual science employed, the style of writing is brilliant, articulate, and inspiring.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2012, 12:28:51 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Now that I think about it, I never even made an argument about evolution, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.  All I did was ask a few questions to which no answers could be given.  I'm not following how that could be thought of as argument, much less senseless argument.  And since when did voicing an opinion become senseless (this thread topic)?  My goodness, there sure seems to be a lot of elitism spreading around.

I did answer your questions, that was the problem. I answer the same questions atleast twice. In plain simple English. I can answer them in other languages if that helps, atleast 4 others.

You are either an elitist, who has a pre-disposesed view on evolution, or you simply don't understand the wording I used. Either way, you and I have a communication issue.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 12:30:55 PM by celticfan1888 » Logged

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« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2012, 01:00:33 PM »

No I have not!  Thanks for the great recommendation!

Out of curiosity, would you say that the standard for scientific research is peer review journals?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So my point kind of was that you cannot put love through the scientific proof model because if you did it would be proven that it does not exist.  Yet we all know without a shadow of a doubt that it does exist.




Have you read the wonderful book A Theory of Love? It crafts the underlying psychology and neurochemistry behind our human experience of "love" both deeply and romantically. 

On top of the depth of actual science employed, the style of writing is brilliant, articulate, and inspiring.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2012, 01:06:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

No I have not!  Thanks for the great recommendation!

Out of curiosity, would you say that the standard for scientific research is peer review journals?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So my point kind of was that you cannot put love through the scientific proof model because if you did it would be proven that it does not exist.  Yet we all know without a shadow of a doubt that it does exist.




Have you read the wonderful book A Theory of Love? It crafts the underlying psychology and neurochemistry behind our human experience of "love" both deeply and romantically. 

On top of the depth of actual science employed, the style of writing is brilliant, articulate, and inspiring.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not just peer reviewed, but quality peers doing the reviewing.  In that regard, this book is exhaustive in its references, which are all well regarded, aside from the prestige of the authors themselves and their own career contributions to their fields Smiley

What I loved most was the book wasn't crass or dismissive as a scientific explanation for something more evanescent.  They were not trying to disprove the emotional and even spiritual aspects of our experience with love and social relationships, rather just giving an explanation of the concurrently underlying neurochemistry and sociology.  In other words, they aren't trying to disprove love through science, rather to enhance it.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2012, 02:00:30 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

No I have not!  Thanks for the great recommendation!

Out of curiosity, would you say that the standard for scientific research is peer review journals?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So my point kind of was that you cannot put love through the scientific proof model because if you did it would be proven that it does not exist.  Yet we all know without a shadow of a doubt that it does exist.




Have you read the wonderful book A Theory of Love? It crafts the underlying psychology and neurochemistry behind our human experience of "love" both deeply and romantically. 

On top of the depth of actual science employed, the style of writing is brilliant, articulate, and inspiring.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not just peer reviewed, but quality peers doing the reviewing.  In that regard, this book is exhaustive in its references, which are all well regarded, aside from the prestige of the authors themselves and their own career contributions to their fields Smiley

What I loved most was the book wasn't crass or dismissive as a scientific explanation for something more evanescent.  They were not trying to disprove the emotional and even spiritual aspects of our experience with love and social relationships, rather just giving an explanation of the concurrently underlying neurochemistry and sociology.  In other words, they aren't trying to disprove love through science, rather to enhance it.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Also see The Anatomy of Love.  I had to read that for an anthropology class and it made a lot of sense.  Knowing exactly why our brains operate at certain times makes hard things easier to deal with. 

Fr. Serb, I was joking above...hence the hitting on of my middle school teachers.  I never had the balls to do that in real life.  One of the things that advances in science has shown is that "love" or at least, varying stages of infatuation can be observed and recorded.
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« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2012, 02:46:22 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!





  Knowing exactly why our brains operate at certain times makes hard things easier to deal with.  



Some of the best advice my Confessor ever gave me was to pray for Grace to be able to ride out the neurochemical storms in our minds. When we are tempted by certain aspects of our biology such as lust or the fight or flight adrenaline anger responses, we are quite literally helpless.  This is the function of Grace in synergy, for us to allow God to help us where we need it most.  So my priest suggested I pray the Jesus Prayer or other simple meditations to let the storms of neurochemicals and hormones to subside, we will find ourselves less possessed by them and so in our right minds Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 02:46:34 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2012, 05:52:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

No I have not!  Thanks for the great recommendation!

Out of curiosity, would you say that the standard for scientific research is peer review journals?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So my point kind of was that you cannot put love through the scientific proof model because if you did it would be proven that it does not exist.  Yet we all know without a shadow of a doubt that it does exist.




Have you read the wonderful book A Theory of Love? It crafts the underlying psychology and neurochemistry behind our human experience of "love" both deeply and romantically. 

On top of the depth of actual science employed, the style of writing is brilliant, articulate, and inspiring.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not just peer reviewed, but quality peers doing the reviewing.  In that regard, this book is exhaustive in its references, which are all well regarded, aside from the prestige of the authors themselves and their own career contributions to their fields Smiley

What I loved most was the book wasn't crass or dismissive as a scientific explanation for something more evanescent.  They were not trying to disprove the emotional and even spiritual aspects of our experience with love and social relationships, rather just giving an explanation of the concurrently underlying neurochemistry and sociology.  In other words, they aren't trying to disprove love through science, rather to enhance it.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Also see The Anatomy of Love.  I had to read that for an anthropology class and it made a lot of sense.  Knowing exactly why our brains operate at certain times makes hard things easier to deal with. 

Fr. Serb, I was joking above...hence the hitting on of my middle school teachers.  I never had the balls to do that in real life.  One of the things that advances in science has shown is that "love" or at least, varying stages of infatuation can be observed and recorded.

Not gonna lie, totally took you seriously.  In this world, i've seen worse actions than hitting on your middle school teacher. 

I find the whole science of love topic absolutely fascinating.  the more you know the more rich the theological meanings become, at least IMO. 
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« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2012, 05:54:01 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Not just peer reviewed, but quality peers doing the reviewing.  In that regard, this book is exhaustive in its references, which are all well regarded, aside from the prestige of the authors themselves and their own career contributions to their fields Smiley

What I loved most was the book wasn't crass or dismissive as a scientific explanation for something more evanescent.  They were not trying to disprove the emotional and even spiritual aspects of our experience with love and social relationships, rather just giving an explanation of the concurrently underlying neurochemistry and sociology.  In other words, they aren't trying to disprove love through science, rather to enhance it.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

that's just all kinds of fantastic.  this is such a cool subject, thanks for opening my eyes to it, I never really knew that the scientific community went this far into analyzing this stuff.  makes sense that they would just never sought to find it or anything. 
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« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2012, 06:04:56 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Now that I think about it, I never even made an argument about evolution, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.  All I did was ask a few questions to which no answers could be given.  I'm not following how that could be thought of as argument, much less senseless argument.  And since when did voicing an opinion become senseless (this thread topic)?  My goodness, there sure seems to be a lot of elitism spreading around.

I did answer your questions, that was the problem. I answer the same questions atleast twice. In plain simple English. I can answer them in other languages if that helps, atleast 4 others.

You are either an elitist, who has a pre-disposesed view on evolution, or you simply don't understand the wording I used. Either way, you and I have a communication issue.
Then let me rephrase.  Sufficient answers.
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« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2012, 07:56:19 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Now that I think about it, I never even made an argument about evolution, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.  All I did was ask a few questions to which no answers could be given.  I'm not following how that could be thought of as argument, much less senseless argument.  And since when did voicing an opinion become senseless (this thread topic)?  My goodness, there sure seems to be a lot of elitism spreading around.

I did answer your questions, that was the problem. I answer the same questions atleast twice. In plain simple English. I can answer them in other languages if that helps, atleast 4 others.

You are either an elitist, who has a pre-disposesed view on evolution, or you simply don't understand the wording I used. Either way, you and I have a communication issue.
Then let me rephrase.  Sufficient answers.

They were sufficient enough for me, an open minded person. And all people without pre-disposed views of evolution and...an open mind.

You never asked different questions, you always repeated your question when I answered you. So I thought: A) You didn't get it (and you never explained why you didn't, or B) You just hate the theory of evolution for whatever reason.

If you don't believe in evolution, that is cool, I'm okay with that. But don't debate if you don't have valid points.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 07:57:54 PM by celticfan1888 » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2012, 02:53:53 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
You are horribly wrong, but I'll not argue.

Nothing has ever stopped you from making senseless arguments before. No offense.
Now that I think about it, I never even made an argument about evolution, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.  All I did was ask a few questions to which no answers could be given.  I'm not following how that could be thought of as argument, much less senseless argument.  And since when did voicing an opinion become senseless (this thread topic)?  My goodness, there sure seems to be a lot of elitism spreading around.

I did answer your questions, that was the problem. I answer the same questions atleast twice. In plain simple English. I can answer them in other languages if that helps, atleast 4 others.

You are either an elitist, who has a pre-disposesed view on evolution, or you simply don't understand the wording I used. Either way, you and I have a communication issue.
Then let me rephrase.  Sufficient answers.

They were sufficient enough for me, ...
And that's fine, but it is not for a lot of people.
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« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2012, 09:11:29 PM »

I wish it were due to a rise in Orthodoxy or even Catholicism.  More emo-atheists doesn't really benefit anyone.

I had the same hope! Oh, disappointment.
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