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Author Topic: Report: US Protestants lose majority status  (Read 5512 times) Average Rating: 0
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dzheremi
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« on: October 09, 2012, 01:08:09 AM »

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NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 01:28:52 AM »

I wish it were due to a rise in Orthodoxy or even Catholicism.  More emo-atheists doesn't really benefit anyone.
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 02:00:44 AM »

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NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 02:03:25 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

How exactly do homosexuality, abortion, and evolution cause fewer people to be Christian?  If anything, it would be that a decrease in the percentage of Christians leads to an increase in the percentage of people who do not oppose homosexuality, abortion, or science, not the other way 'round.
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 02:03:53 AM »

I wish it were due to a rise in Orthodoxy or even Catholicism. 
I do as well.  Sadly, with all the distractions people don't look for truth, they seek out pleasure, which pretty much avoids any religious affiliation.
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 02:05:31 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

How exactly do homosexuality, abortion, and evolution cause fewer people to be Christian?  If anything, it would be that a decrease in the percentage of Christians leads to an increase in the percentage of people who do not oppose homosexuality, abortion, or science, not the other way 'round.
The fact you have to ask reveals epic fail.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  But seriously, if you can't see the connection, that's part of the problem.
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 02:38:59 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

How exactly do homosexuality, abortion, and evolution cause fewer people to be Christian?  If anything, it would be that a decrease in the percentage of Christians leads to an increase in the percentage of people who do not oppose homosexuality, abortion, or science, not the other way 'round.
The fact you have to ask reveals epic fail.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  But seriously, if you can't see the connection, that's part of the problem.

Can you see a connection clearly enough to explain it?
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 03:17:20 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

How exactly do homosexuality, abortion, and evolution cause fewer people to be Christian?  If anything, it would be that a decrease in the percentage of Christians leads to an increase in the percentage of people who do not oppose homosexuality, abortion, or science, not the other way 'round.
The fact you have to ask reveals epic fail.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  But seriously, if you can't see the connection, that's part of the problem.

Can you see a connection clearly enough to explain it?
I'll try.

Acceptance of legal murder (abortion).  Acceptance of deviant sexual behavior (homosexuality) and promiscuity.  Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).  People today are basically told thy can do almost anything they want without having to answer for their actions.

On the other hand, you have Christianity which teaches against all these things.  Which one seems easier and more fun?  Having rules and being responsible or doing what you want, when you want or with whomever you want?

And you really don't see why people are not affiliated with Christianity?  We live in a "me" society.  

It's like asking a five year old if they want cake or liver.  
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 03:18:42 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 03:31:00 AM »

I am a bit curious about how the study was done. Reporting 'no religious affiliation' is kind of a broad statement and can mean many things. How about those Protestants who don't really belong to any Church tradition or the Protestants who say silly things like 'It's not a religion it's a relationship!' etc?
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 03:53:59 AM »

I am a bit curious about how the study was done. Reporting 'no religious affiliation' is kind of a broad statement and can mean many things. How about those Protestants who don't really belong to any Church tradition or the Protestants who say silly things like 'It's not a religion it's a relationship!' etc?

+ 1

Religion is not going anywhere. It might get de-institutionalized but people will still have religious beliefs.
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 03:54:49 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

Pretty sure you have that backwards.
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 04:50:01 AM »

What about those who say Orthodoxy is not a religion, but a cure for religion?
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2012, 05:02:52 AM »

I am a bit curious about how the study was done. Reporting 'no religious affiliation' is kind of a broad statement and can mean many things. How about those Protestants who don't really belong to any Church tradition or the Protestants who say silly things like 'It's not a religion it's a relationship!' etc?
Very good questions.  It would be interesting to see it broken down.
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 05:03:50 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

Pretty sure you have that backwards.
I believe you may be right.
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2012, 05:13:43 AM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2012, 05:26:31 AM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

What is painful and sad is your immediate focus and response to the evolution part of my post and ignoring the rest, and my list was unbelievably short.  It also denies my post, which is fact.  Very sad, and telling.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 05:30:05 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2012, 05:33:43 AM »

People have allowed the world to infiltrate the Church and instill compromise after compromise which has all but destroyed Christianity, then ask why no one wants to go to church.  Just how naive are we?
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 05:37:07 AM »

I find it disturbing Christians will champion the likes of Dawkins, who denies the existence of God and calls Christians names, never realizing while you lift him up he is laughing at you, not with you.  But alas, this was just one topic on a list which seemingly has no end.
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2012, 05:40:02 AM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

My experience is clearly different to yours. I can't recall ever coming across a single person who said they abandoned the Church because of the theory of evolution itself. I have met people who have abandoned their faith because they are told that evolution cannot be true and is contrary to it. I don't know if evolution as currently described is true, but as a scientific theory it's about as good a one as we have. No it's not proven but nothing in science ever is. Evolution doesn't, however, teach that there is no God. Some individuals, such as Dawkins, do, but the theory itself does not. It only posits a mechanism by which new species can arise from existing ones. It doesn't require a belief in abiogenesis or a disbelief in God to accept and therefore I'm entirely with Orthodox11 here. People like you are creating a false dichotomy and that is far more likely to drive believers of a scientific bent away. As far as I can see a belief in the veracity of evolution isn't driving our youth away because at its heart it is entirely irrelevant. I can respect those who accept it and those who reject it (so long as their reasoning is sound) but what I can't accept is the dogmatic teaching that acceptance of one requires rejection of the other (whether that be Dawkins rejecting God or a Christian such as yourself rejecting evolution). It's that assertion that never the twain can meet that drives some scientifically minded people out of the Church and some religiously minded people out of science. Last I checked the fact of Creation is taught by the Church, not the how.

James
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 05:46:40 AM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

My experience is clearly different to yours. I can't recall ever coming across a single person who said they abandoned the Church because of the theory of evolution itself. I have met people who have abandoned their faith because they are told that evolution cannot be true and is contrary to it. I don't know if evolution as currently described is true, but as a scientific theory it's about as good a one as we have. No it's not proven but nothing in science ever is. Evolution doesn't, however, teach that there is no God. Some individuals, such as Dawkins, do, but the theory itself does not. It only posits a mechanism by which new species can arise from existing ones. It doesn't require a belief in abiogenesis or a disbelief in God to accept and therefore I'm entirely with Orthodox11 here. People like you are creating a false dichotomy and that is far more likely to drive believers of a scientific bent away. As far as I can see a belief in the veracity of evolution isn't driving our youth away because at its heart it is entirely irrelevant. I can respect those who accept it and those who reject it (so long as their reasoning is sound) but what I can't accept is the dogmatic teaching that acceptance of one requires rejection of the other (whether that be Dawkins rejecting God or a Christian such as yourself rejecting evolution). It's that assertion that never the twain can meet that drives some scientifically minded people out of the Church and some religiously minded people out of science. Last I checked the fact of Creation is taught by the Church, not the how.

James
I agree.  Your experiences are very different than mine.  But again, what is the need to focus on evolution when there are other parts of my post?  This, I believe, is a problem and part of a design few see.  Anyway, are there no objections to the rest of my post?  If there is, I would be curious why.
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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2012, 05:59:20 AM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

My experience is clearly different to yours. I can't recall ever coming across a single person who said they abandoned the Church because of the theory of evolution itself. I have met people who have abandoned their faith because they are told that evolution cannot be true and is contrary to it. I don't know if evolution as currently described is true, but as a scientific theory it's about as good a one as we have. No it's not proven but nothing in science ever is. Evolution doesn't, however, teach that there is no God. Some individuals, such as Dawkins, do, but the theory itself does not. It only posits a mechanism by which new species can arise from existing ones. It doesn't require a belief in abiogenesis or a disbelief in God to accept and therefore I'm entirely with Orthodox11 here. People like you are creating a false dichotomy and that is far more likely to drive believers of a scientific bent away. As far as I can see a belief in the veracity of evolution isn't driving our youth away because at its heart it is entirely irrelevant. I can respect those who accept it and those who reject it (so long as their reasoning is sound) but what I can't accept is the dogmatic teaching that acceptance of one requires rejection of the other (whether that be Dawkins rejecting God or a Christian such as yourself rejecting evolution). It's that assertion that never the twain can meet that drives some scientifically minded people out of the Church and some religiously minded people out of science. Last I checked the fact of Creation is taught by the Church, not the how.

James
I agree.  Your experiences are very different than mine.  But again, what is the need to focus on evolution when there are other parts of my post?  This, I believe, is a problem and part of a design few see.  Anyway, are there no objections to the rest of my post?  If there is, I would be curious why.

My response was, clearly, a response to the point made by Orthodox11 which was regarding your comment about Dawkins. That's why the focus on evolution. I have no objections whatsoever to the rest of your points and I certainly do agree with them but, I feel, you muddy the waters when you include in your points something so irrelevant as the theory of evolution. It's clear that the world does draw people out because it's easier to plunge headlong into the selfish hedonism of much of contemporary society than it is to be in the world but not of it. But I suspect that has been the case in most if not all periods and societies since the founding of the Church and it has little or nothing to do with science.

James
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 06:00:22 AM by jmbejdl » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2012, 06:07:14 AM »

But again, what is the need to focus on evolution when there are other parts of my post?

Because I think that's a big part of the problem, while your other points not so much. No one is lauding Dawkins, or his atheist position. That's exactly my point. By writing such you imply that accepting the theory of evolution necessitates atheism. In so doing, you are the one playing straight into the hands of Dawkins. Belief in the evolution of life does not do away with God, nor is it incompatible with Christianity. By stating that it is, you create a false dichotomy, and I know from experience that this false dichotomy is something that has led countless young people away from the Church.


As for your other points, I think society's acceptance of abortion is reprehensible and its championing of sexual immorality tragic (though I don't like the way homosexuality is singled out, while fornication is ignored). So I basically agree with you here, which is why I didn't bring them up.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 06:10:19 AM by Orthodox11 » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2012, 06:22:26 AM »

I am a bit curious about how the study was done. Reporting 'no religious affiliation' is kind of a broad statement and can mean many things. How about those Protestants who don't really belong to any Church tradition or the Protestants who say silly things like 'It's not a religion it's a relationship!' etc?
I'm thinking nondenominational should still fall into Protestant.
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« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2012, 06:24:47 AM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

My experience is clearly different to yours. I can't recall ever coming across a single person who said they abandoned the Church because of the theory of evolution itself. I have met people who have abandoned their faith because they are told that evolution cannot be true and is contrary to it. I don't know if evolution as currently described is true, but as a scientific theory it's about as good a one as we have. No it's not proven but nothing in science ever is. Evolution doesn't, however, teach that there is no God. Some individuals, such as Dawkins, do, but the theory itself does not. It only posits a mechanism by which new species can arise from existing ones. It doesn't require a belief in abiogenesis or a disbelief in God to accept and therefore I'm entirely with Orthodox11 here. People like you are creating a false dichotomy and that is far more likely to drive believers of a scientific bent away. As far as I can see a belief in the veracity of evolution isn't driving our youth away because at its heart it is entirely irrelevant. I can respect those who accept it and those who reject it (so long as their reasoning is sound) but what I can't accept is the dogmatic teaching that acceptance of one requires rejection of the other (whether that be Dawkins rejecting God or a Christian such as yourself rejecting evolution). It's that assertion that never the twain can meet that drives some scientifically minded people out of the Church and some religiously minded people out of science. Last I checked the fact of Creation is taught by the Church, not the how.

James
I agree.  Your experiences are very different than mine.  But again, what is the need to focus on evolution when there are other parts of my post?  This, I believe, is a problem and part of a design few see.  Anyway, are there no objections to the rest of my post?  If there is, I would be curious why.

My response was, clearly, a response to the point made by Orthodox11 which was regarding your comment about Dawkins. That's why the focus on evolution. I have no objections whatsoever to the rest of your points and I certainly do agree with them but, I feel, you muddy the waters when you include in your points something so irrelevant as the theory of evolution. It's clear that the world does draw people out because it's easier to plunge headlong into the selfish hedonism of much of contemporary society than it is to be in the world but not of it. But I suspect that has been the case in most if not all periods and societies since the founding of the Church and it has little or nothing to do with science.

James
Well, we sure don't agree on this one point, but I'm glad you aren't the type of person to dismiss everything I say based off one topic.
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2012, 06:28:05 AM »

But again, what is the need to focus on evolution when there are other parts of my post?

Because I think that's a big part of the problem, while your other points not so much. No one is lauding Dawkins, or his atheist position. That's exactly my point. By writing such you imply that accepting the theory of evolution necessitates atheism. In so doing, you are the one playing straight into the hands of Dawkins. Belief in the evolution of life does not do away with God, nor is it incompatible with Christianity. By stating that it is, you create a false dichotomy, and I know from experience that this false dichotomy is something that has led countless young people away from the Church.


As for your other points, I think society's acceptance of abortion is reprehensible and its championing of sexual immorality tragic (though I don't like the way homosexuality is singled out, while fornication is ignored). So I basically agree with you here, which is why I didn't bring them up.
I'll ditto my post to jmbejdl for you.  I absolutely disagree in every way with you on evolution, but I'm glad you don't allow that to disagree with my other points.

I think it may reveal something if we compare the number of evolutionary atheists and evolutionary Christians.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 06:52:45 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2012, 07:15:36 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

I'm European but fit the age bracket. Here it would be 30% maximum that would claim any religious affiliation, and then I include the muslims. On the other hand not even my best friends know whether I'm religious or not since I never speak about it. So perhaps it is more than 30%, I don't know.

On the other hand: how many of those 50% protestants really believed in it?

I find it disturbing Christians will champion the likes of Dawkins, who denies the existence of God and calls Christians names, never realizing while you lift him up he is laughing at you, not with you.  But alas, this was just one topic on a list which seemingly has no end.

Who does that?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 07:30:54 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2012, 07:36:37 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

I'm European but fit the age bracket. Here it would be 30% maximum that would claim any religious affiliation, and then I include the muslims. On the other hand not even my best friends know whether I'm religious or not since I never speak about it. So perhaps it is more than 30%, I don't know.

On the other hand: how many of those 50% protestants really believed in it?

I find it disturbing Christians will champion the likes of Dawkins, who denies the existence of God and calls Christians names, never realizing while you lift him up he is laughing at you, not with you.  But alas, this was just one topic on a list which seemingly has no end.

Who does that?
A lot, but lets not focus on evolution in this thread.  People tend to become fanatical and it side rails everything else.
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« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2012, 08:18:39 AM »

I dont like the ecumenist tendency I seem to see in this thread. Why should we wish people to be heretics, such as Protestants or Roman Catholics? I don't make any difference between those and Agnosticism/Atheism. It is all part of the same Western drift away from the Body of Christ.

Well, the non-believers at least are more open-minded, that is a chance for Orthodoxy. And I cannot accept the argument that heretics are more "moral"... that's not even backed up by evidence, Evangelicals in the US have a higher divorce rate, for example. And there is no morality in Orthodoxy anyway, there is only ascetism.
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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2012, 08:21:26 AM »

It's interesting that the vast majority of "unaffiliated" identify themselves as "nothing in particular" as opposed to atheist or agnostic. At the same time there are large numbers of unaffiliated who attend worship services at least occasionally, who pray, who identify themselves as "spiritual", etc. Yet most, 88% according to the study, are not "looking for a religion that is right for them".

Even more interesting is that when it comes to such beliefs and practices as astrology, reincarnation, and yoga there is no difference between the unaffiliated and the general US public - most of whom are affiliated. That suggests that the churches are not clearly preaching and teaching true Christianity. It would seem that most of the unaffiliated have never seen true Christianity - by which I mean that taught by the Apostles and handed down faithfully through the centuries in Orthodox Christianity.

(And yes, I would expect that these trends are very similar here in Canada.)

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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2012, 08:28:25 AM »

I am a bit curious about how the study was done. Reporting 'no religious affiliation' is kind of a broad statement and can mean many things. How about those Protestants who don't really belong to any Church tradition or the Protestants who say silly things like 'It's not a religion it's a relationship!' etc?

Exactly my first thoughts.
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« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2012, 09:27:23 AM »

I am a bit curious about how the study was done. Reporting 'no religious affiliation' is kind of a broad statement and can mean many things. How about those Protestants who don't really belong to any Church tradition or the Protestants who say silly things like 'It's not a religion it's a relationship!' etc?

The article in today's paper dealt with 'nones', an increasing category of 'affiliation' among those thirty and under. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/09/nones-religion-pew-study/1618607/  Many of these 'nones' come from an evangelical family background per the Pew study and while they share the economic/government philosophy of their parents, they tend to be less rigid on social issues. Apparently, many profess a belief in God and most still pray. It is not so much a rejection of spirituality, but perhaps a rejections of religion being packaged with political belief as has been the case among my general of evangelicals over the past thirty years or so. With politicians like this guy, I can see the connection: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2012/10/great-moments-in-democracy-candidate-for-state-office-endorses-death-penalty-for-rebellious-children/  I will leave that analysis to the sociologists.

I think we can take something positive out of this however as many of the 'nones' are searchers and we ought to work on Orthodoxy being a beacon to guide them towards the light!

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« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2012, 09:43:56 AM »

Well, the non-believers at least are more open-minded

Haha, what a good joke!
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« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2012, 09:52:37 AM »

I dont like the ecumenist tendency I seem to see in this thread. Why should we wish people to be heretics, such as Protestants or Roman Catholics? I don't make any difference between those and Agnosticism/Atheism. It is all part of the same Western drift away from the Body of Christ.

Well, the non-believers at least are more open-minded, that is a chance for Orthodoxy. And I cannot accept the argument that heretics are more "moral"... that's not even backed up by evidence, Evangelicals in the US have a higher divorce rate, for example. And there is no morality in Orthodoxy anyway, there is only ascetism.

Except for that bizarre quip at the end, I am in some level of agreement with you.  My reason for for preferring Catholics (or even conservative Protestants) is that people like this can make society more livable.  I would rather see more moral agnostics rather than lukewarm Christians, but the Atheopagans are just too much.  


In defense of Kerdy I find that most religious people don't really understand evolution.  The Christians believe that it is incompatible with the fact that God created the Earth (simply a sign of weak faith, which is easily overcome - God in His mercy is always allowing us to expand our minds and to understand all the things that He hath wrought).  For the Paedophilic-Atheopagans it is their Philosopher's Stone, it is their "proof" that God doesn't exist.  Lol.  In this regard I consider evolution to be a good thing, anyone who looses faith in the living God on account of dinosaur bones never was that strong in their faith to begin with.

Once you separate the Paganism from the Evolution it make a whole lot more sense.
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« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2012, 09:58:39 AM »

Except for that bizarre quip at the end
It is a allusion to the theology of Fr. John Romanides. If you are interested, see http://www.stgeorgegreenville.org/OurFaith/Science%20of%20Orthodox%20Spirituality/Articles/Orthodoxy%20Not%20Ethic%20System%20-%20Romanides.pdf
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« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2012, 10:38:50 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
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« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2012, 10:44:16 AM »


Well, not surprising! Luther and co planned to destroy Christianity and the human soul by forcing Christians to get rid of Images, Icons, Holy Men and Women. They did that in a rather smart and diabolic way, just like those pagan Mohammedans. We know them now by their fruits!
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« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2012, 10:49:48 AM »


Well, not surprising! Luther and co planned to destroy Christianity and the human soul by forcing Christians to get rid of Images, Icons, Holy Men and Women. They did that in a rather smart and diabolic way, just like those pagan Mohammedans. We know them now by their fruits!

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« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2012, 11:30:16 AM »


I am interested.  Thanks.
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« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2012, 11:31:00 AM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.

These two I agree with you on. Evolution has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

I think he is referring to subverted evolution.  (Basically the Science-Religion of the Atheopagans.)
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« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2012, 12:16:05 PM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.

Very well put and of crucial importance.
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« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2012, 12:33:32 PM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.

Very well put and of crucial importance.

Science and religion are hardly incompatible. It is people who may be incompatible with faith. Of timely impact to this part of the discussion is the Nobel Prize awarded today to Dr.Shinya Yamanaka of Kyoto for his work on developing human stem-cell therapy without requiring the destruction of human embryos. This article from today's Slate is worth the read: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2012/10/shinya_yamanaka_s_nobel_prize_he_saved_embryos_not_just_stem_cell_research_.html

As many of you may recall, my oldest son is a post-doc fellow at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadephia, a microbiologist/genetic researcher and, with his wife, a faithful parishioner of an Orthodox church in suburban Philadelphia. I am proud of him and of his profession. This is a great article and this line sums it up: "(Yamanaka) did what only a scientist could have done: He made it possible for both sides to win. In the words of Julian Savulescu, an ethicist and supporter of embryonic stem-cell research, Yamanaka “deserves not only a Nobel Prize for Medicine, but a Nobel Prize for Ethics.” Kudos well earned!
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« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2012, 01:04:52 PM »

I am a bit curious about how the study was done. Reporting 'no religious affiliation' is kind of a broad statement and can mean many things. How about those Protestants who don't really belong to any Church tradition or the Protestants who say silly things like 'It's not a religion it's a relationship!' etc?

+ 1

Religion is not going anywhere. It might get de-institutionalized but people will still have religious beliefs.

Say what you want about JamesR, but for all his "excesses" for which he his derided around here for, he does seem often to be more thoughtful than these wizened elders around.

Imagine wondering about the method used in a study before going off about the unholy trinity of evolution, abortion, and what is the other? oh, homosexuality.
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« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2012, 01:11:07 PM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

What is painful and sad is your immediate focus and response to the evolution part of my post and ignoring the rest, and my list was unbelievably short.  It also denies my post, which is fact.  Very sad, and telling.

Evolution is more proven than God.
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« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2012, 01:17:49 PM »

Evolution teaching there is no God, it all happened by accident (yes, they teach that - Dawkins).

Perhaps if people didn't present youth with such false dichotomies, they wouldn't feel the need to chose between truth and religion, and leave faith having chosen the former.
Or perhaps they chose truth over pseudo-truth, while the others choose the wide and easy path.  For you to claim such as truth, it must first be proven as such.  This has not happened.  In any event, the lies told told to our youth send them running from the Church.  This is painfully apparent and undeniable.

What is painful and sad is your immediate focus and response to the evolution part of my post and ignoring the rest, and my list was unbelievably short.  It also denies my post, which is fact.  Very sad, and telling.

Evolution is more proven than God.

Does Kerdy get off to denying evolution? I never see him posting anything else.
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« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2012, 01:49:35 PM »

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — For the first time in its history, the United States does not have a Protestant majority, according to a new study. One reason: The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is on the rise.

The percentage of Protestant adults in the U.S. has reached a low of 48 percent, the first time that Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50 percent. The drop has long been anticipated [...]

Read more here.

Thoughts/reactions? The story says that 1/3 of those under 30 have no religious affiliation, and aren't expected to become religious as they age. I'm just outside of that age bracket, but thinking about the people I know who are in it, and that seems about right, or maybe even a little low.

Yippee!  Less people identify as Christian.  I new there was nothing to worry about in our pro homosexual/abortion/evolution society.  Nothing to worry about at all.
an atheist/agnostic  is more fun than a holly roller.
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