OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 28, 2014, 06:31:13 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tom Hanks 'testimonial' in Russia's Orthodox Church ad  (Read 6773 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,964


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2012, 06:59:59 PM »

Look, we can allow divorce and remarriage by ekonomia.  Can we do the same for same sex marriage?  If a gay couple become Orthodox, does the Church by ekonomia accept them as Orthodox Christians and married?

The answer is so obvious here.

Apparently, some same-sex couples, or at least one partner, become Orthodox. I'm not sure if their condition is known before hand. In some cases it is, and I think this is problematic for many reasons.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2012, 07:22:01 PM »

Look, we can allow divorce and remarriage by ekonomia.  Can we do the same for same sex marriage?  If a gay couple become Orthodox, does the Church by ekonomia accept them as Orthodox Christians and married?

The answer is so obvious here.

Apparently, some same-sex couples, or at least one partner, become Orthodox. I'm not sure if their condition is known before hand. In some cases it is, and I think this is problematic for many reasons.

If the instructions from the Russian Orthodox are any indication, obviously that is a no-no.  I googled and found some instructions on how to receive gay and transgendered individuals.  For transgendered, even if they have surgery to change their sex organs, they will still be received as their birth gender and treated as their birth gender without requiring them to go through surgery to revert.  I highly doubt a same-sex couple will be allowed to continue as if they are married.  I guess the question is, will they be required to file for civil divorce?

Anyway, that is beyond this thread.  Our issue is about people endorsing SSM such as Tom Hanks, and whether it is acceptable in the Orthodox Church or not.
Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,041



« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2012, 02:24:03 PM »

Hi all. I don't want to rehash the whole thread but I would like to add a thought.

Catholicism is often criticized for its harsh stances regarding sexuality; but it's worth noting that those harsh stances are "across the board" if you will: we oppose fornication, divorce/remarriage, contraception, sodomy (whether same- or opposite- sex) etc. It would bother me if, e.g. we took a firm stance against homosexuality but a lenient stance on fornication.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
NicholasMyra
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 5,768


Avowed denominationalist


« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2012, 02:51:36 PM »

I guess the question is, will they be required to file for civil divorce?

Would a money lender be required to release all contracts of interest in order to join the church?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 02:51:56 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever
Father H
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,511



« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2012, 07:23:45 PM »

Like religious freedom? Serving meat in restaurants at Wednesdays and Fridays? Allowing for your religious organisation to operate?

Exactly. There is nothing inconsistent about considering something sinful and still supporting another person's freedom to engage in it.


That being said, I remember reading an interview with Tom Hanks where he said his family attended church very infrequently, so I'd be surprised if he placed any great weight on what the Church teaches on the issue.

Eating meat on Wednesdays and Fridays is not a sin.  Otherwise we could not have the exceptions of publican and pharisee, bright week, pentecost, etc.  It is a practice of the virtues.  We cannot equate it to abortion or practiced homosexuality. 
Logged
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,219



« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2012, 11:00:09 PM »

Like religious freedom? Serving meat in restaurants at Wednesdays and Fridays? Allowing for your religious organisation to operate?

Exactly. There is nothing inconsistent about considering something sinful and still supporting another person's freedom to engage in it.


That being said, I remember reading an interview with Tom Hanks where he said his family attended church very infrequently, so I'd be surprised if he placed any great weight on what the Church teaches on the issue.

Eating meat on Wednesdays and Fridays is not a sin.  Otherwise we could not have the exceptions of publican and pharisee, bright week, pentecost, etc.  It is a practice of the virtues.  We cannot equate it to abortion or practiced homosexuality. 
Could we equate usury with practiced homosexuality as Nicholas and Orthonorm love to do?

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Opus118
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,424



« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2012, 11:36:45 PM »

"as Nicholas and Orthonorm love to do?"

I think it is more their "love for us" rather than their "love to do".
Logged
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,343



« Reply #97 on: November 12, 2012, 12:07:24 AM »

Like religious freedom? Serving meat in restaurants at Wednesdays and Fridays? Allowing for your religious organisation to operate?

Exactly. There is nothing inconsistent about considering something sinful and still supporting another person's freedom to engage in it.


That being said, I remember reading an interview with Tom Hanks where he said his family attended church very infrequently, so I'd be surprised if he placed any great weight on what the Church teaches on the issue.

Eating meat on Wednesdays and Fridays is not a sin.  Otherwise we could not have the exceptions of publican and pharisee, bright week, pentecost, etc.  It is a practice of the virtues.  We cannot equate it to abortion or practiced homosexuality. 
Could we equate usury with practiced homosexuality as Nicholas and Orthonorm love to do?

In Christ,
Andrew

Quote or it didn't happen.

I would never equate the two.

A lot more people get screwed over by one than the other.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #98 on: November 12, 2012, 03:38:51 AM »

I guess the question is, will they be required to file for civil divorce?

Would a money lender be required to release all contracts of interest in order to join the church?

If one does not repent, isn't one excommunicated?
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #99 on: November 12, 2012, 07:40:13 AM »

Like religious freedom? Serving meat in restaurants at Wednesdays and Fridays? Allowing for your religious organisation to operate?

Exactly. There is nothing inconsistent about considering something sinful and still supporting another person's freedom to engage in it.


That being said, I remember reading an interview with Tom Hanks where he said his family attended church very infrequently, so I'd be surprised if he placed any great weight on what the Church teaches on the issue.

Eating meat on Wednesdays and Fridays is not a sin.  Otherwise we could not have the exceptions of publican and pharisee, bright week, pentecost, etc.  It is a practice of the virtues.  We cannot equate it to abortion or practiced homosexuality. 
Could we equate usury with practiced homosexuality as Nicholas and Orthonorm love to do?

In Christ,
Andrew

Quote or it didn't happen.

I would never equate the two.

A lot more people get screwed over by one than the other.
A lot more people get screwed by theft than by murder, but it doesn't make the latter less a crime.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2012, 07:43:44 AM »

and his calling those that oppose gay marriage as "un-American," or something to that effect.
Once again, this is a statement about civil rights, nothing that could raise qustions about his Orthodoxy.
If no one can produce a specific statement asking for church weddings, I consider the case closed.
So, unless the perpetrator is Orthodox, we are OK with murder?  We have nothing to say on Armin Meiwes?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2012, 07:47:33 AM »

You know I remember a lot of racist types trotting their black "friends" out back in the day.

Weird that the homohystericals always seem to have that gay "friend" as well.


Unlike the Left, they can tolerate persons of different opinions.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,219



« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2012, 11:07:49 AM »

"as Nicholas and Orthonorm love to do?"

I think it is more their "love for us" rather than their "love to do".
I said what I said. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #103 on: November 17, 2012, 09:42:15 PM »

Hi all. I don't want to rehash the whole thread but I would like to add a thought.

Catholicism is often criticized for its harsh stances regarding sexuality; but it's worth noting that those harsh stances are "across the board" if you will: we oppose fornication, divorce/remarriage, contraception, sodomy (whether same- or opposite- sex) etc. It would bother me if, e.g. we took a firm stance against homosexuality but a lenient stance on fornication.
That is known as consistency. Wink

Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #104 on: November 17, 2012, 09:46:13 PM »

Supporting one's freedom to sin is anti-Christian.

Christ is anti-Christian...
Oh really...........do tell.

and what you're talking about is not "freedom" what you really want is licence.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #105 on: November 17, 2012, 09:49:40 PM »

You know I remember a lot of racist types trotting their black "friends" out back in the day.

Weird that the homohystericals always seem to have that gay "friend" as well.


You know, if I was black and you made a statement like that equating my people with homosexuals, we'd have a problem.

The scary part is you call your self OrthoNORM.  Shocked
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2012, 09:53:45 PM »

Even if the secular government wants to sanction sinful behavior, our duty as Christians is to lead people to the Kingdom of God.  How does supporting secular action that promotes anti-Christian behavior help that duty?  How does supporting secular gay marriage help lead these gay couples into the Kingdom?  By supporting gay marriage we are actually leading them away from the Kingdom, and ourselves as well.
I'm really beginning to have a new found respect for you choy after reading this thread. Wink

Unfortunately, it's quite revealing about some "Orthodox" attitudes towards this sexual deviancy known as a "life style".
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,343



« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2012, 11:03:21 PM »

Hi all. I don't want to rehash the whole thread but I would like to add a thought.

Catholicism is often criticized for its harsh stances regarding sexuality; but it's worth noting that those harsh stances are "across the board" if you will: we oppose fornication, divorce/remarriage, contraception, sodomy (whether same- or opposite- sex) etc. It would bother me if, e.g. we took a firm stance against homosexuality but a lenient stance on fornication.
That is known as consistency. Wink



To mangle another's words: Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.097 seconds with 45 queries.