Author Topic: Stages to conversion  (Read 4419 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2012, 04:07:31 PM »
wow!
 :angel:
so, u found a place where the Bible is taught. that sounds great!
don't wait to find a perfect place, even my church isn't perfect!
(since i joined it...)
 ;)

I wouldn't say it is perfect, every Church on earth has its problems.  Only the Church in the New Jerusalem is perfect.  It is important that we find a Church where we can grow spiritually despite its problems.

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,546
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2012, 04:17:48 PM »
wow!
 :angel:
so, u found a place where the Bible is taught. that sounds great!
don't wait to find a perfect place, even my church isn't perfect!
(since i joined it...)
 ;)

I wouldn't say it is perfect, every Church on earth has its problems.  Only the Church in the New Jerusalem is perfect.  It is important that we find a Church where we can grow spiritually despite its problems.

What does "grown spiritually" mean to you?
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2012, 06:56:16 PM »
What does "grown spiritually" mean to you?

Become a better follower of Christ.  Better at prayer, better at fasting, better at dealing with other people.

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,263
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2012, 10:17:08 PM »
Uhm...I'm an Orthodox and I fast because Canon Law says so and I believe that I'm in a mortal sin if I don't fast just because of laziness or indifference. We believe that too.
Mortal sin because you had cheese on Friday? If struck down in the moment, you would be put before Christ, and he would say,

"Ye unfaithful servant! Thy charities and mercies art abominable, for thou hath neglected the weightier things when thou consumed those two string cheeses while peckish..."?

Come on. Most of the Christianity could be thrown away through "quotes" like that.

Quote
I agree it's not right to neglect the fast 'just 'cause', but mortal sin?

Well I grant that black and white distinction between mortal sins and venial sins is somewhat unknown in Orthodoxy but how superficial attitude towards Church's orders could be anything but extremely severe?

Wait...Alpo, do you believe in the distinction between venial and mortal sin as understood by Latin Catholics?

No but I like the idea of "mortal sin" since it emphasizes severeness of sin. Something we don't usually understand. Or at least I don't.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 10:19:14 PM by Alpo »

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,246
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2012, 02:10:46 AM »
Well I grant that black and white distinction between mortal sins and venial sins is somewhat unknown in Orthodoxy but how superficial attitude towards Church's orders could be anything but extremely severe?
Even if you used the distinction between mortal and venial, why would neglecting a fast day fall under mortal (I.E. spiritual death)? In the light of the words of Christ and of St. Paul?

I honestly don't think that the majority of Orthodox, who blow off a fasting day sometimes, are thereby incurring a sin unto death. Is it falling short (sin)? If done out of contempt, sure. Can that action stem from a greater contempt unto death? Sure. But let's call things what they are.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 02:14:10 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,263
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2012, 06:24:42 AM »
Well I grant that black and white distinction between mortal sins and venial sins is somewhat unknown in Orthodoxy but how superficial attitude towards Church's orders could be anything but extremely severe?
Even if you used the distinction between mortal and venial, why would neglecting a fast day fall under mortal (I.E. spiritual death)? In the light of the words of Christ and of St. Paul?

I don't believe in Sola Scriptura.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,246
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2012, 12:47:04 PM »
Well I grant that black and white distinction between mortal sins and venial sins is somewhat unknown in Orthodoxy but how superficial attitude towards Church's orders could be anything but extremely severe?
Even if you used the distinction between mortal and venial, why would neglecting a fast day fall under mortal (I.E. spiritual death)? In the light of the words of Christ and of St. Paul?

I don't believe in Sola Scriptura.

There's a difference between Sola Scriptura and Nada Scriptura.

You can't respond to someone asking you to consider the words of Christ when making a theological statement with "I don't believe in sola scriptura." That wouldn't have flown five seconds with any of the Fathers, and it shouldn't fly on OC.net, either.
...

"Eutyches, consider where it is written, 'tempted like us in all things..."

"I don't believe in Sola Scriptura, Chancellor."
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 12:53:42 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,263
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2012, 01:23:26 PM »
Well I grant that black and white distinction between mortal sins and venial sins is somewhat unknown in Orthodoxy but how superficial attitude towards Church's orders could be anything but extremely severe?
Even if you used the distinction between mortal and venial, why would neglecting a fast day fall under mortal (I.E. spiritual death)? In the light of the words of Christ and of St. Paul?

I don't believe in Sola Scriptura.

There's a difference between Sola Scriptura and Nada Scriptura.

You can't respond to someone asking you to consider the words of Christ when making a theological statement with "I don't believe in sola scriptura." That wouldn't have flown five seconds with any of the Fathers, and it shouldn't fly on OC.net, either.
...

"Eutyches, consider where it is written, 'tempted like us in all things..."

"I don't believe in Sola Scriptura, Chancellor."

LOL. I didn't mean Nada Scriptura. Rather, I was trying to say that even if Christ or Paul didn't say anything about sinfulness of breaking Church's orders that doesn't mean that it isn't a sin.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,246
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2012, 12:42:50 AM »
Oh, okay.

I wasn't talking about an argument from silence. I was referring to what Christ and St. Paul said about fasting and the purity of foods, and a Christian's liberty with these things.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2012, 06:32:54 PM »
I got the sign I asked for.

Offline mabsoota

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,838
  • Kyrie eleison
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox (Coptic)
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2012, 05:29:01 AM »
please tell us more when you are able to.
may God increase your faith wherever you are.

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,263
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2012, 05:48:56 PM »
Oh, okay.

I wasn't talking about an argument from silence. I was referring to what Christ and St. Paul said about fasting and the purity of foods, and a Christian's liberty with these things.

However the Church has authority to restrict Christian liberty. During and right after earthly life of Our Lord she didn't. Now she does.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 05:50:06 PM by Alpo »

Offline Fabio Leite

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,761
  • За Россию без Путина. For Russia without Putin.
    • Vida Ortodoxa
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2012, 12:08:55 PM »
I found the Protestant/Roman paths to conversion interesting in a cultural sense.

Here in Brazil,most converts from the Roman Church, start either as Ecumenist Eric or as Syncretic Simon (Roman statues and altars along with icons and Chrysostom's liturgy, Roman hymns, devotions and feasts along with Orthodox ones). Syncretic Simon, many times, was just a Roman who wanted to mix lots of folk superstitions with church offices and local Roman authorities forbade them, and they find in Orthodoxy - not very organized in Brazil - a clean field with no one physically close enough to even be sure of what they are doing, much less reprimend them.

Hyperdox Herman is an early stage only for converts from very traditionalist Roman background, coming with a "I am more Catholic than thou" attitude.
There is no such a thing as holly bullies.

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2012, 01:13:46 PM »
please tell us more when you are able to.
may God increase your faith wherever you are.

I've invited the priest to our home so my wife can ask him questions.  I wouldn't say anything is certain right now.  I've raised my issues with my current Church and they are being heard by the bishop.  But we'll see.

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Stages to conversion
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2012, 02:49:27 PM »
I feel that every step I take, the entire process starts over.  I guess the reality of the process is starting to sink in, that we're actually about to do it.