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Author Topic: Stages to conversion  (Read 3394 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 03, 2012, 08:04:40 PM »

Are there stages to conversion?  I mean, like the 5 stages of grief or something.

A few weeks ago I was almost certain I want to convert.  I spoke with my current Bishop which seemed to put some hope in myself about the state of our Church.  I feel that I'm 50/50.  Do I really want to convert?  Or would I go to where I feel the spirituality I am seeking can be practiced and lived, regardless if this is in an Eastern Catholic parish or Orthodox?  I feel I am the latter at this point.  Probably not a good time to look into conversion because it means I can be easily enticed back into the Catholic Church.  Perhaps my heart is not in Orthodoxy (yet).  So is this just a phase in the process?  Or am I really messed up about this?  Is this just hesitation with all the attachments I have with my current EC parish?  Or is it genuine desire to remain there except for the disappointment that parish life is not what I thought it would be.  I seem to be looking for the Orthodox Church within the Catholic Church, and regardless of what people say there is something deep within me who believes that can happen.
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 08:07:45 PM »

Yeah there are two stages.

1. Hyperdox Herman
2. Luke Warmodox
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 08:15:24 PM »

Yeah there are two stages.

1. Hyperdox Herman
2. Luke Warmodox

Does this mean I need to create a third character based on the crazy state of mind I am in?
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 08:20:00 PM »

There's an EC I remember when I first started my inquiry who gave me a business card, I'll ask if it's ok for you to talk to him. He converted to the Orthodox Church and has a doctorate in theology. He was sort of forced to leave his parish because the numbers were dwindling down and something about hostility.And the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church.

I would pray on it. Also what do you think about the roman pontiff?
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 11:39:06 PM »

Well it depends on your backgrounds. Protestants and Roman Catholic converts go through different stages of conversion.

For Protestants:

Hyperdox Herman
Luke Warmadox

For Roman Catholics:

Ecumenist Eric
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 12:09:29 AM »

I think the "Five Stages..." could also be applied to the process of conversion. Currently, you seem to be in the 'bargaining' stage Wink
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 03:12:00 AM »

There's an EC I remember when I first started my inquiry who gave me a business card, I'll ask if it's ok for you to talk to him. He converted to the Orthodox Church and has a doctorate in theology. He was sort of forced to leave his parish because the numbers were dwindling down and something about hostility.And the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church.

I would pray on it. Also what do you think about the roman pontiff?

He's cool Tongue

I'm fine with the Papacy either way, quite honestly he does not affect my daily life directly.  For me it is more important that I am in a parish and under a priest and bishop that can lead me on the right path to holiness.
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2012, 03:12:36 AM »

Well it depends on your backgrounds. Protestants and Roman Catholic converts go through different stages of conversion.

For Protestants:

Hyperdox Herman
Luke Warmadox

For Roman Catholics:

Ecumenist Eric

I was thinking about Inquirer Ian or Hesitant Herbert Tongue
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2012, 05:13:02 AM »

And then: Inquirer Ian or Hesitant Herbert "meets and get into a serious argument" and you are left as Confused Billy or Know-not-what-to-do John.
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 09:26:05 AM »

There's an EC I remember when I first started my inquiry who gave me a business card, I'll ask if it's ok for you to talk to him. He converted to the Orthodox Church and has a doctorate in theology. He was sort of forced to leave his parish because the numbers were dwindling down and something about hostility.And the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church.

I would pray on it. Also what do you think about the roman pontiff?

He's cool Tongue

I'm fine with the Papacy either way, quite honestly he does not affect my daily life directly.  For me it is more important that I am in a parish and under a priest and bishop that can lead me on the right path to holiness.



Not meaning to pile on, choy, but this is something I don't understand. The Papacy did not just appear one day - it's not a mere detail. It's one of the symptoms of what happened when the western church started moving away from the true Faith.

A priest or a bishop can lead you astray - your own feelings, wants and needs can do the same. You can't find truth in error.

Seek the truth and let the chips fall where they may.
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 10:57:12 AM »

I would say there are equivalent steps.

Curiosity/Questioning
Inquiry/Research
Denial/Anger
Uncertainty
Acceptance
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 02:05:44 PM »

Not meaning to pile on, choy, but this is something I don't understand. The Papacy did not just appear one day - it's not a mere detail. It's one of the symptoms of what happened when the western church started moving away from the true Faith.

A priest or a bishop can lead you astray - your own feelings, wants and needs can do the same. You can't find truth in error.

Seek the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I've went down the Papacy path already.  It is a complicated issue.  For me all I want to do right now is become a good Christian.  I'm not a theologian by any stretch of the mind, this is an issue too complicated for me right now and I'd rather focus on more important things.  I've been a Roman Catholic most of my life and I accepted the Papacy because it came with the territory.  I recently found out through challenging my beliefs on it that I really do not care much about the issues one way or another.  The reason I am looking at Orthodoxy is not the Papacy issue.  I want to reform my life and I want my kids to grow up with solid Christian spirituality because we live in a very (and increasingly) secular world.  I don't see where the Pope fits in to all of that, he is not under my consideration whether I stay Catholic or become Orthodox.
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 02:06:15 PM »

I would say there are equivalent steps.

Curiosity/Questioning
Inquiry/Research
Denial/Anger
Uncertainty
Acceptance


I think I'm both in the Anger and Uncertainty stage right now.
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 02:51:58 PM »

Not meaning to pile on, choy, but this is something I don't understand. The Papacy did not just appear one day - it's not a mere detail. It's one of the symptoms of what happened when the western church started moving away from the true Faith.

A priest or a bishop can lead you astray - your own feelings, wants and needs can do the same. You can't find truth in error.

Seek the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I've went down the Papacy path already.  It is a complicated issue.  For me all I want to do right now is become a good Christian.  I'm not a theologian by any stretch of the mind, this is an issue too complicated for me right now and I'd rather focus on more important things.  I've been a Roman Catholic most of my life and I accepted the Papacy because it came with the territory.  I recently found out through challenging my beliefs on it that I really do not care much about the issues one way or another.  The reason I am looking at Orthodoxy is not the Papacy issue.  I want to reform my life and I want my kids to grow up with solid Christian spirituality because we live in a very (and increasingly) secular world.  I don't see where the Pope fits in to all of that, he is not under my consideration whether I stay Catholic or become Orthodox.



You could probably find a church you like anywhere. You could probably find a Baptist or Pentecostal church where the people have solid Christian values. But it won't be the True Church - the True church is the True Church because it teaches and preaches the same things that Christ and His Apostles did. You can't separate it into the bits and pieces that you are comfortable with. Or that you think will be spiritually beneficial.
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 04:02:39 PM »

I would say there are equivalent steps.

Curiosity/Questioning
Inquiry/Research
Denial/Anger
Uncertainty
Acceptance


I like these steps, to those after coversion would be Hyperdox Herman and Lukewarmodox are the most dangerous but then there is also Normaldox who prays regularly, listens to his/her pastor, confesses, and worships the Most Holy trinity  at home and a church, practices Christian Chairty and love with his/her fellow man---I have seen a lot more of these in everyday church life and they are the greatest stregnth of the orthodox Church---silent, prayerful, giving to others before self.

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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2012, 04:06:07 PM »

I would say there are equivalent steps.

Curiosity/Questioning
Inquiry/Research
Denial/Anger
Uncertainty
Acceptance


Stage 4 here. I am now past step 3 I hope.
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2012, 04:27:53 PM »

You could probably find a church you like anywhere. You could probably find a Baptist or Pentecostal church where the people have solid Christian values. But it won't be the True Church - the True church is the True Church because it teaches and preaches the same things that Christ and His Apostles did. You can't separate it into the bits and pieces that you are comfortable with. Or that you think will be spiritually beneficial.

Okay, for additional clarification, I'm only looking at the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.  No offense to our Oriental Orthodox brethren.
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2012, 04:32:59 PM »

You could probably find a church you like anywhere. You could probably find a Baptist or Pentecostal church where the people have solid Christian values. But it won't be the True Church - the True church is the True Church because it teaches and preaches the same things that Christ and His Apostles did. You can't separate it into the bits and pieces that you are comfortable with. Or that you think will be spiritually beneficial.

Okay, for additional clarification, I'm only looking at the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.  No offense to our Oriental Orthodox brethren.

If I may ask (just curious), how come the RCC is an option but the OO isn't?

(what an irony that this is my 451st post Grin)
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »

I would say there are equivalent steps.

Curiosity/Questioning
Inquiry/Research
Denial/Anger
Uncertainty
Acceptance


Stage 4 here. I am now past step 3 I hope.

I'm stage 5. Just gotta wait my childhood out.
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2012, 05:37:48 PM »

If I may ask (just curious), how come the RCC is an option but the OO isn't?

(what an irony that this is my 451st post Grin)

I thought you were following all my posts/rants  Grin Tongue

As I said before, one of the biggest issues I have with the UGCC is that it is too ethnic.  OOs are very ethnic as well.  That is why my other viable option is the OCA.
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2012, 05:44:11 PM »

If I may ask (just curious), how come the RCC is an option but the OO isn't?

(what an irony that this is my 451st post Grin)

I thought you were following all my posts/rants  Grin Tongue

That's so. How could it not be, I'm your biggest fan, remember?

As I said before, one of the biggest issues I have with the UGCC is that it is too ethnic.  OOs are very ethnic as well.  That is why my other viable option is the OCA.

I guess that's a good reason.
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2012, 05:50:41 PM »

If I may ask (just curious), how come the RCC is an option but the OO isn't?

(what an irony that this is my 451st post Grin)

I thought you were following all my posts/rants  Grin Tongue

That's so. How could it not be, I'm your biggest fan, remember?

As I said before, one of the biggest issues I have with the UGCC is that it is too ethnic.  OOs are very ethnic as well.  That is why my other viable option is the OCA.

I guess that's a good reason.

With that said, there's a Coptic Orthodox parish just across the river from where we are, and it about 3 blocks away from one of our UGCC parishes  Grin
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2012, 06:43:21 PM »

I'm just going to ask an honest question here regardless of whoever it offends, but why does it seem like Protestant converts use logic more when deciding to convert, even if they go through a silly hyperdox phase, whereas Roman Catholic converts rely on emotions more and seem like they are always hesitant or uncertain?
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2012, 07:19:00 PM »

I'm just going to ask an honest question here regardless of whoever it offends, but why does it seem like Protestant converts use logic more when deciding to convert, even if they go through a silly hyperdox phase, whereas Roman Catholic converts rely on emotions more and seem like they are always hesitant or uncertain?

I'm Eastern Catholic.

I guess one reason to move away from the RCC is that you are sick and tired of over legalism.  I know I am.  I don't want to fast because Canon Law says so or that it is a mortal sin of I don't.  As St. John Chrysostom said, if your fasting does not bear fruit, why fast at all?  And I don't know how threattening me with hell would increase my spiritual life.
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2012, 07:20:23 PM »

I would say there are equivalent steps.

Curiosity/Questioning
Inquiry/Research
Denial/Anger
Uncertainty
Acceptance


Best I've seen yet.
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2012, 07:47:14 PM »

I'm just going to ask an honest question here regardless of whoever it offends, but why does it seem like Protestant converts use logic more when deciding to convert, even if they go through a silly hyperdox phase, whereas Roman Catholic converts rely on emotions more and seem like they are always hesitant or uncertain?

I am neither hesitant or uncertain, but do need to be less selfish, more humble and more patient.
So, where do you place me then? As the foolish/angry/denialing one?
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2012, 08:39:54 PM »

Are there stages to conversion?  I mean, like the 5 stages of grief or something.

A few weeks ago I was almost certain I want to convert.  I spoke with my current Bishop which seemed to put some hope in myself about the state of our Church.  I feel that I'm 50/50.  Do I really want to convert?  Or would I go to where I feel the spirituality I am seeking can be practiced and lived, regardless if this is in an Eastern Catholic parish or Orthodox?  I feel I am the latter at this point.  Probably not a good time to look into conversion because it means I can be easily enticed back into the Catholic Church.  Perhaps my heart is not in Orthodoxy (yet).  So is this just a phase in the process?  Or am I really messed up about this?  Is this just hesitation with all the attachments I have with my current EC parish?  Or is it genuine desire to remain there except for the disappointment that parish life is not what I thought it would be.  I seem to be looking for the Orthodox Church within the Catholic Church, and regardless of what people say there is something deep within me who believes that can happen.
Choy:
I did not read entire thread, so could have been covered already.
 
Reading the above post it sounds like your debating which value meal you wana get at McDonald's.
Should i go for the big mack....or maybe i should try the Mc rib. But if i get the big mack what if i then realise i want the mcrib, and the mcrib is for a limited time only.

I'm joking and i don't men offence by it-but it gets my point across, i hope.

this choice is not like ordering a at a fast food joint.
If it feels like that then you are not ready, or you should not convert yet.

btw: I'm not for pushing people to convert just to get more people.
when you are ready to do it you will not be able to wait to finish the catechism classes.
every day your still not allowed to receive holy communion would feel like an eternity.

from what i read (or it could b yr personality is like that?)you don't have the fire lit under you yet, cause that how is should feel. like a fire under your making you jump and say hallelujah! or something like that. i don't want to push you away but i also don't want to push you in Orthodoxy.
it just sounds like you should have more enthusiasm if you were truly ready?

And btw: i always go for the mcrib Wink

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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2012, 09:03:34 PM »

I'm just going to ask an honest question here regardless of whoever it offends, but why does it seem like Protestant converts use logic more when deciding to convert, even if they go through a silly hyperdox phase, whereas Roman Catholic converts rely on emotions more and seem like they are always hesitant or uncertain?

I am neither hesitant or uncertain, but do need to be less selfish, more humble and more patient.
So, where do you place me then? As the foolish/angry/denialing one?

Not all go through all steps, you sound like you are in acceptance, your status as a Catechumen.
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« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2012, 09:47:33 PM »

Are there stages to conversion?  I mean, like the 5 stages of grief or something.

A few weeks ago I was almost certain I want to convert.  I spoke with my current Bishop which seemed to put some hope in myself about the state of our Church.  I feel that I'm 50/50.  Do I really want to convert?  Or would I go to where I feel the spirituality I am seeking can be practiced and lived, regardless if this is in an Eastern Catholic parish or Orthodox?  I feel I am the latter at this point.  Probably not a good time to look into conversion because it means I can be easily enticed back into the Catholic Church.  Perhaps my heart is not in Orthodoxy (yet).  So is this just a phase in the process?  Or am I really messed up about this?  Is this just hesitation with all the attachments I have with my current EC parish?  Or is it genuine desire to remain there except for the disappointment that parish life is not what I thought it would be.  I seem to be looking for the Orthodox Church within the Catholic Church, and regardless of what people say there is something deep within me who believes that can happen.
Choy:
I did not read entire thread, so could have been covered already.
 
Reading the above post it sounds like your debating which value meal you wana get at McDonald's.
Should i go for the big mack....or maybe i should try the Mc rib. But if i get the big mack what if i then realise i want the mcrib, and the mcrib is for a limited time only.

I'm joking and i don't men offence by it-but it gets my point across, i hope.

this choice is not like ordering a at a fast food joint.
If it feels like that then you are not ready, or you should not convert yet.

btw: I'm not for pushing people to convert just to get more people.
when you are ready to do it you will not be able to wait to finish the catechism classes.
every day your still not allowed to receive holy communion would feel like an eternity.

from what i read (or it could b yr personality is like that?)you don't have the fire lit under you yet, cause that how is should feel. like a fire under your making you jump and say hallelujah! or something like that. i don't want to push you away but i also don't want to push you in Orthodoxy.
it just sounds like you should have more enthusiasm if you were truly ready?

And btw: i always go for the mcrib Wink



I do have the fire, I accepting everything Orthodoxy teaches, I would love to practice all the traditions and live the spirituality.  But there is too many things holding me back, keeping me in Catholicism, making me hesitant.  So perhaps the fire is there, but not burning as brightly yet.   Some days are better than others.  Some days I feel I have one foot in the door of Orthodoxy, other days I feel like maybe I should wait and hold out for more hope in my Eastern Catholic Church.

And I do not eat at McDonalds :p
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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2012, 10:25:20 PM »

"other days I feel like maybe I should wait and hold out for more hope in my Eastern Catholic Church."

I dont understand what yo men by this?
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« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2012, 12:23:12 AM »

"other days I feel like maybe I should wait and hold out for more hope in my Eastern Catholic Church."

I dont understand what yo men by this?

One of the reasons I ended up at my local OCA parish is I felt spiritually dry in my UGCC parish.  I felt the parish to be too ethnic and people are just focused on culture rather than spirituality.  Let me put it this way, our peroggy making sessions has greater attendance than our Liturgy.  I don't mind if they are very ethnic and very spiritual as well.  But I feel that I joined the local Ukrainian Cultural Center and a Divine Liturgy just happens every Sunday.

I was attracted to the Eastern Catholic Church because I discovered Byzantine faith and being Catholic, I wanted to go somewhere that wouldn't radically change my life (like convert).  However after 2 years I feel that the Byzantine faith I learned about is not what I am experiencing.  So I tried to look for other places where I can find it.  I found a great OCA parish.  But of course the problem is the fact that I am converting.  Very tough thing to do.
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« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2012, 01:18:30 AM »

I'm just going to ask an honest question here regardless of whoever it offends, but why does it seem like Protestant converts use logic more when deciding to convert, even if they go through a silly hyperdox phase, whereas Roman Catholic converts rely on emotions more and seem like they are always hesitant or uncertain?

My hunch would be that RC's were taught that their church "is the only true church" and that the EO's are "in error". Most Prot's weren't taught that their church is "the only true church".
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« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2012, 01:22:34 AM »

I don't want to fast because Canon Law says so or that it is a mortal sin of I don't.

Uhm...I'm an Orthodox and I fast because Canon Law says so and I believe that I'm in a mortal sin if I don't fast just because of laziness or indifference. We believe that too.

And I don't know how threattening me with hell would increase my spiritual life.

Both modern and ancient Orthodox Saints urge people to remember Hell in order to grow in one's spiritual life.

That is to say, one cannot escape from that kind of viewpoints by converting to Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2012, 02:11:09 AM »

Wait...Alpo, do you believe in the distinction between venial and mortal sin as understood by Latin Catholics?
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MichaelArchangelos
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« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2012, 04:25:16 AM »

Choy,

Since you're wavering between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, I would recommend reading The Whole Evidence Against the Claims of the Roman Church by Sanderson Robins (you can get the complete book at the link above). This book was written in the 1800s by an Anglican and completely refutes the idea of papal supremacy. Papal supremacy is the real "deal-breaker" between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. Sure there are other issues such as the Filioque, Divine simplicity and created grace, the place of scholasticism, merit/purgatory/indulgences etc, but it is the Roman Catholic claim that the Pope is supreme and has universal jurisdiction that is most impeding union (that's the way I see it anyway). This is the issue that you need to work out.

I'd also recommend The Papacy by Abbé Guettée. Bishop Kallistos Ware also provides a good treatment of the Roman Catholic issues in his book The Orthodox Church.
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choy
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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2012, 10:33:57 AM »

Choy,

Since you're wavering between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, I would recommend reading The Whole Evidence Against the Claims of the Roman Church by Sanderson Robins (you can get the complete book at the link above). This book was written in the 1800s by an Anglican and completely refutes the idea of papal supremacy. Papal supremacy is the real "deal-breaker" between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. Sure there are other issues such as the Filioque, Divine simplicity and created grace, the place of scholasticism, merit/purgatory/indulgences etc, but it is the Roman Catholic claim that the Pope is supreme and has universal jurisdiction that is most impeding union (that's the way I see it anyway). This is the issue that you need to work out.

I'd also recommend The Papacy by Abbé Guettée. Bishop Kallistos Ware also provides a good treatment of the Roman Catholic issues in his book The Orthodox Church.

Thanks, but as I mentioned above, I don't want to deal with the Papacy right now.  I've already gone through The Primacy of Peter by Fr. John Meyendorff.  In all earnesty I just want to concentrate on the immediate things that affect me and my family.  Conversion should have the goal of producing better Christians in me and my family, there are more immediate concerns than the Papacy.
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2012, 11:30:55 AM »

Uhm...I'm an Orthodox and I fast because Canon Law says so and I believe that I'm in a mortal sin if I don't fast just because of laziness or indifference. We believe that too.
Mortal sin because you had cheese on Friday? If struck down in the moment, you would be put before Christ, and he would say,

"Ye unfaithful servant! Thy charities and mercies art abominable, for thou hath neglected the weightier things when thou consumed those two string cheeses while peckish..."?

I agree it's not right to neglect the fast 'just 'cause', but mortal sin?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 11:35:03 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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Nikolaostheservant
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« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2012, 11:55:35 AM »

"other days I feel like maybe I should wait and hold out for more hope in my Eastern Catholic Church."

I dont understand what yo men by this?

One of the reasons I ended up at my local OCA parish is I felt spiritually dry in my UGCC parish.  I felt the parish to be too ethnic and people are just focused on culture rather than spirituality.  Let me put it this way, our peroggy making sessions has greater attendance than our Liturgy.  I don't mind if they are very ethnic and very spiritual as well.  But I feel that I joined the local Ukrainian Cultural Center and a Divine Liturgy just happens every Sunday.

I was attracted to the Eastern Catholic Church because I discovered Byzantine faith and being Catholic, I wanted to go somewhere that wouldn't radically change my life (like convert).  However after 2 years I feel that the Byzantine faith I learned about is not what I am experiencing.  So I tried to look for other places where I can find it.  I found a great OCA parish.  But of course the problem is the fact that I am converting.  Very tough thing to do.

"Let me put it this way, our peroggy making sessions has greater attendance than our Liturgy.  I don't mind if they are very ethnic and very spiritual as well.  But I feel that I joined the local Ukrainian Cultural Center and a Divine Liturgy just happens every Sunday"
Oh i see!
That pretty funny, the way you word it!
Some (Orthodox) places are like that, unfortunately.
u prob should look around for one that is more spiritual, i would to. Unless your into perrogie recipes.
Really try other parishes in your area looking for a better balance.
In my experience the Greek parishes can b like that also.
i think the bigger the parish the more balanced it would be for you.
in a sm parish they are prob all close friends and are like u say.
in a bigger parish there is more variety, prob with more ppl like us who want the spiritual side.
i d say your odds are better with a larger parish.
hope u find one for you close enough to attend.
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Nikolaostheservant
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« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2012, 11:58:25 AM »

Choy,

Since you're wavering between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, I would recommend reading The Whole Evidence Against the Claims of the Roman Church by Sanderson Robins (you can get the complete book at the link above). This book was written in the 1800s by an Anglican and completely refutes the idea of papal supremacy. Papal supremacy is the real "deal-breaker" between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. Sure there are other issues such as the Filioque, Divine simplicity and created grace, the place of scholasticism, merit/purgatory/indulgences etc, but it is the Roman Catholic claim that the Pope is supreme and has universal jurisdiction that is most impeding union (that's the way I see it anyway). This is the issue that you need to work out.

I'd also recommend The Papacy by Abbé Guettée. Bishop Kallistos Ware also provides a good treatment of the Roman Catholic issues in his book The Orthodox Church.

Right!
Papal supremacy------was abt power-------it was a POWER GRAB, any way i look at it.
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choy
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« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2012, 02:15:13 PM »

"Let me put it this way, our peroggy making sessions has greater attendance than our Liturgy.  I don't mind if they are very ethnic and very spiritual as well.  But I feel that I joined the local Ukrainian Cultural Center and a Divine Liturgy just happens every Sunday"
Oh i see!
That pretty funny, the way you word it!
Some (Orthodox) places are like that, unfortunately.
u prob should look around for one that is more spiritual, i would to. Unless your into perrogie recipes.
Really try other parishes in your area looking for a better balance.
In my experience the Greek parishes can b like that also.
i think the bigger the parish the more balanced it would be for you.
in a sm parish they are prob all close friends and are like u say.
in a bigger parish there is more variety, prob with more ppl like us who want the spiritual side.
i d say your odds are better with a larger parish.
hope u find one for you close enough to attend.


Humor is my self defense.

Like I said, I do not mind being very ethnic and cultural, but it is disappointing that such passion is not found for their faith.  I tried to get people to do some things and all I get are blank stares.  Sure, lets make peroggies and then afterwards lets spend a couple of hours at the local 40 Days for Life campaign.  Or maybe have an adult catechesis program.

I don't know, I'm really frustrated.  Maybe I'm going through the 5 stages again, but this time about being Orthodox instead of leaving the Catholic Church.
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mabsoota
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« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2012, 02:19:04 PM »

i hope u do find people with a lot of passion for their faith.
u can pray for the people u know, and u can also broaden your search to take in more people.
maybe have a look at the church across yr river...
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choy
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« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2012, 02:21:50 PM »

i hope u do find people with a lot of passion for their faith.
u can pray for the people u know, and u can also broaden your search to take in more people.
maybe have a look at the church across yr river...

I found these people in an Orthodox parish.  Of course converting is a huge thing.  As I said earlier, I'm holding out for hope in my Eastern Catholic parish, but maybe it is a pipe dream?
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mabsoota
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« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2012, 02:30:14 PM »

personally, i do think there will be catholic - orthodox unity,
but i am not sure it will be in my lifetime.
maybe it will be in yrs.

try looking around more orthodox churches to see if any have a Bible study -
often a good sign of life.
 Smiley
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choy
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« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2012, 02:33:09 PM »

personally, i do think there will be catholic - orthodox unity,
but i am not sure it will be in my lifetime.
maybe it will be in yrs.

try looking around more orthodox churches to see if any have a Bible study -
often a good sign of life.
 Smiley

Well, the parish I'm looking at has the priest that wrote the Bible Study Companion Series for Conciliar Press and does the Bible Study podcast for AncientFaith Radio.
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mabsoota
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« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2012, 02:38:28 PM »

wow!
 angel
so, u found a place where the Bible is taught. that sounds great!
don't wait to find a perfect place, even my church isn't perfect!
(since i joined it...)
 Wink
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