Author Topic: Renewed Like The Eagle's?  (Read 3864 times)

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Offline OrthoNoob

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Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« on: October 02, 2012, 04:25:56 PM »
There are many references in the DL to one's youth being "renewed like the eagle's." What does this mean?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2012, 05:52:02 PM »
I think the Orthodox Jewish Bible makes the meaning of the Psalm quite clear:

Quote
Tehillim 103
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
103 (Of Dovid). Barachi (Bless) Hashem, O my nefesh; and all that is within me, bless His Shem kodesh.
2 Barachi Hashem, O my nefesh, and forget not all His gmulim (benefits);
3 Who forgiveth all thine avonim (iniquities); Who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who is the Go’el (Redeemer) of thy life from shachat (corruption, pit, grave); Who crowneth thee with chesed and rachamim;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with tov; so that thy ne’urim is made chadash like the nesher.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20103&version=OJB

What a misagos . . .

Who would ever read such a thing? What is the point of this?

It's a weird translation. Basically eagles have been fancifully thought (much like a phoenix but much less dramatic fashion) to renew themselves throughout life and reach incredible longevity.

It is simile / metaphor of this process of renewal which has little to no concrete basis within any known eagle's life cycle.

It's poetry with allusions divorced from our own experience.

That's all.


Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 12:22:46 AM »
I think the Orthodox Jewish Bible makes the meaning of the Psalm quite clear:

Quote
Tehillim 103
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
103 (Of Dovid). Barachi (Bless) Hashem, O my nefesh; and all that is within me, bless His Shem kodesh.
2 Barachi Hashem, O my nefesh, and forget not all His gmulim (benefits);
3 Who forgiveth all thine avonim (iniquities); Who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who is the Go’el (Redeemer) of thy life from shachat (corruption, pit, grave); Who crowneth thee with chesed and rachamim;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with tov; so that thy ne’urim is made chadash like the nesher.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20103&version=OJB

What a misagos . . .

Who would ever read such a thing? What is the point of this?



An Orthodox Christian one for the NT would be awesome.

"Fear him who is able to apolesai both Psyche and Soma in Gehenna..."
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 09:06:33 AM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=47303.msg815095#msg815095
Who would ever read such a thing?

People who think vocalising a particular word is the same as understanding it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 09:06:44 AM by Orthodox11 »

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 10:30:36 AM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=47303.msg815095#msg815095
Who would ever read such a thing?

People who think vocalising a particular word is the same as understanding it.

Exactly, when I scanned the index and saw the term 'The Eagles' I first thought of the rock band, then the football team in trying to figure out the topic before I clicked on it! (Using the word 'The' to preface eagles as opposed to 'an eagle'  changes the context completely to American English speakers.)

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2012, 11:45:56 AM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=47303.msg815095#msg815095
Who would ever read such a thing?

People who think vocalising a particular word is the same as understanding it.

Exactly, when I scanned the index and saw the term 'The Eagles' I first thought of the rock band, then the football team in trying to figure out the topic before I clicked on it! (Using the word 'The' to preface eagles as opposed to 'an eagle'  changes the context completely to American English speakers.)


That's true, although, in my defense, that's how we say it in the Liturgy in the OCA. "Like the eagle's."
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2012, 12:51:32 PM »
There are many references in the DL to one's youth being "renewed like the eagle's." What does this mean?

It's about actual eagles, who "renew their youth" by, IIRC, striking their beaks on rocks which takes off old layers and allows the beak to grow and look new. This is what I remember at least from a footnote somewhere. Doubtless, an ornithologist could explain better.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 01:30:28 PM »
There are many references in the DL to one's youth being "renewed like the eagle's." What does this mean?

It's about actual eagles, who "renew their youth" by, IIRC, striking their beaks on rocks which takes off old layers and allows the beak to grow and look new. This is what I remember at least from a footnote somewhere. Doubtless, an ornithologist could explain better.

Except it doesn't happen as I suggested above, except when some go mad and do such self harm as they die.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 01:30:38 PM by orthonorm »

Offline serb1389

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 01:34:35 PM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=47303.msg815095#msg815095
Who would ever read such a thing?

People who think vocalising a particular word is the same as understanding it.

Exactly, when I scanned the index and saw the term 'The Eagles' I first thought of the rock band, then the football team in trying to figure out the topic before I clicked on it! (Using the word 'The' to preface eagles as opposed to 'an eagle'  changes the context completely to American English speakers.)

The football team has no apostrophe.  just sayin

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2012, 03:22:16 PM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=47303.msg815095#msg815095
Who would ever read such a thing?

People who think vocalising a particular word is the same as understanding it.

Exactly, when I scanned the index and saw the term 'The Eagles' I first thought of the rock band, then the football team in trying to figure out the topic before I clicked on it! (Using the word 'The' to preface eagles as opposed to 'an eagle'  changes the context completely to American English speakers.)


That's true, although, in my defense, that's how we say it in the Liturgy in the OCA. "Like the eagle's."

On a serious note - for those of us whose English liturgy is not that of the OCA, please provide the context for the phrase. Thanks!

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 03:22:47 PM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=47303.msg815095#msg815095
Who would ever read such a thing?

People who think vocalising a particular word is the same as understanding it.

Exactly, when I scanned the index and saw the term 'The Eagles' I first thought of the rock band, then the football team in trying to figure out the topic before I clicked on it! (Using the word 'The' to preface eagles as opposed to 'an eagle'  changes the context completely to American English speakers.)

The football team has no apostrophe.  just sayin

Got me there!

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 03:24:26 PM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=47303.msg815095#msg815095
Who would ever read such a thing?

People who think vocalising a particular word is the same as understanding it.

Exactly, when I scanned the index and saw the term 'The Eagles' I first thought of the rock band, then the football team in trying to figure out the topic before I clicked on it! (Using the word 'The' to preface eagles as opposed to 'an eagle'  changes the context completely to American English speakers.)


That's true, although, in my defense, that's how we say it in the Liturgy in the OCA. "Like the eagle's."

On a serious note - for those of us whose English liturgy is not that of the OCA, please provide the context for the phrase. Thanks!


By this, do you mean that you want me to tell you where in the Liturgy it appears, or that I should have mentioned it was a quote from the OCA liturgy in the OP?
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2012, 03:30:18 PM »
It is a line from Psalm 102, the First Antiphon. However, most parishes sing an abridged version of this antiphon so one doesn't ordinarily hear this line at a Sunday liturgy.
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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2012, 03:35:56 PM »
Actually those who follow the Constantinopolitan practice don't sing the 102nd Psalm as the First Antiphon either in full or in part, hence the unfamiliarity. I recall this discussion in an earlier thread as it refers to 1838 revisions of Constantinople. One of the confusing things about that date and the relative 'antiquity' of one form over the other was that the Greek Catholics of central Europe seemed to follow the 1838 revisions which is hard to understand given that the unions dated to the 17th century.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2012, 03:40:24 PM »
Ah, I did not know that ACROD followed the revised rite. I know that psalm 102 though is still used as the First Antiphon in Greek monasteries (they sang the full psalm at Holy Protection Monastery this Monday).
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Renewed Like The Eagle's?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2012, 03:51:36 PM »
Ah, I did not know that ACROD followed the revised rite. I know that psalm 102 though is still used as the First Antiphon in Greek monasteries (they sang the full psalm at Holy Protection Monastery this Monday).

I have my old Greek Catholic Slavonic Typicon here somewhere first published in 1938 in Presov ..... Psalm 102 is prescribed as an alternative and for use during Lent. It still strikes me as odd that the 'revised' rite is traced to the early 19th century. If so, why would the Greek Catholics have adopted it since they did not, for example, follow the Nikonian reforms?