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Author Topic: Taking photos in church  (Read 1691 times) Average Rating: 0
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LizaSymonenko
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« on: September 30, 2012, 03:07:37 PM »


Are there any "rules" forbidding the taking of photos during Divine Liturgy?

I've always taken photos.  I try to be discreet and not interfere, but, when that Kodak moment happens, I wish to capture and share it. 

So, today we had a substitute priest, as ours was away for the weekend, and I decided to take a photo of him.  This priest has never been to our church and I thought he might like to have a photo to remember our parish.

I was at Liturgy at the very beginning, then had to run to the kitchen to start getting the food ready for the lunch after church.  Had I been there, I would have taken a photo when he was reading the Gospel.  However, I missed it.  So, the next best opportunity was when he came out for Holy Communion.  I tried to snap a photo when he appeared to give the blessing, but, by the time I raised the camera, he was gone.

So, when he came out with the Chalice, I took a couple of photos....as I often do.  I've even taken photos of the kids talking Holy Communion when the bishop is visiting.  It's never been a problem.



So, in the church hall, after Liturgy....after I've served most everyone, and am bringing a tray full of food out to one of the tables, an elderly lady grabs my hand and starts reprimanding me.  She told me she was livid with me, and next time she will beat me up, right there in the middle of the church.  I was taken aback.  I had no idea what I had done to warrant such anger from her.

It appears she was mad that I took photos while the priest was on the Ambo with the Chalice.  She was squeezing my hand and yelling at me.  I had no idea that she had already made the rounds to all the tables and been explaining to everyone what a menace Liza is, and how dare she be taking photos....and she's amazed God didn't strike me down....etc, etc.  The whole place was whispering about me, and people were giving me sideways glances.  So, as she's yelling at me.....I am amazed, hurt and a bit lost as to what to do.

So, I grab her hand and start to pull her towards our visiting priest.  She tries to wiggle out of it....but, I kind of drag her along to his side....and ask him right then and there if it is wrong to take photos during Holy Communion.

I may be completely mistaken....I've never thought anything was wrong with it.  Parents are always running up to snap photos of their kids. 

Father replies that he sees nothing wrong with it.  That he is on the outside of the altar, among the public so there's really nothing really wrong with it.  She mumbles that "we" never allowed such things before.  It's not allowed.  ...and he kind of waves her off and says it's okay....at which point I extricate my hand from hers and go back to the kitchen.

This woman absolutely devastated me.  To threaten to beat me up in the middle of the church.....I was floored.  I hadn't thought I deserved such a reaction.

The only time I have been told "not" to take photos is at some churches in Ukraine.....and even those allowed photos after I gave them a "donation". 

However, I have always asked at each church and monastery I entered whether photos were permitted.  Outside of Ukraine, nobody has ever told me not to take photos, but, rather encouraged them.

My understanding is that Christ came among us.....openly.  We saw him.  We draw/paint icons of him, therefore, why would we not be able to take a photo of "Him" (Holy Mysteries)? 

Are there rules against photo taking at your parishes? 
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 03:16:54 PM »

Plenty of people have taken photos at our church during the liturgy, no ones ever seemed to have a problem with it.
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 03:22:06 PM »

So sorry to hear about that Liza. Sad

I have to admit I was very very hesitant to take pictures at my parish until I saw someone video recording it on their iPhone. But I've seen videos taken actually inside the altar, is that wrong as well?

I can understand someone being upset about it, but not to that extent.
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 03:32:46 PM »

Ah overzealous yiayias, babushkas, ammachis, [insert term for elderly lady here], they're the one constant of Orthodox churches everywhere.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 03:34:05 PM by sheenj » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 03:37:07 PM »

sometimes we think we have a reason to be annoyed with someone.
then the enemy whips up all sorts of unkind thoughts in our head,
and, if we accept them, we go a bit psycho and start yelling and screaming.

then, maybe, half way through the show, we realise we are way out of line.
but it would bad to calm down in the middle of a raging temper, so we justify ourselves and keep going.
then, too late, everything has gone wrong and we don't know how to fix it.

this maybe what happened to that lady.
pray for her. love her, and try to understand that she probably realises she has gone too far.

offer her a way back, just gently at first, so she can start to talk to you again.
offer her a cup of tea or a kind word, and show you have forgiven her without making it a big deal.

the enemy hates it when he fails to divide and anger us, he can't bear love and forgiveness.
so these are your best weapons at times of strife.

in terms of the photo thing, people do it in my church all the time, but i try not even to look if someone is taking Holy Communion,
it seems like a personal moment, and i wouldn't photo the chalice in case i get in the way of someone.
but i wouldn't start a shrieking, hysterical fit if someone else did it!
we should pray for people who do to find peace.
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2012, 03:59:23 PM »

While her reaction was completely unacceptable, and I understand your being taken aback by it, I am also very uncomfortable with filming or taking pictures during the Liturgy of the Faithful, especially during Holy Communion. I think photography detracts from the intimacy of the moment, and I've found it very distracting when it's happened in my church. As for Christ coming openly, the Eucharist was always a private event, the unbaptised were asked to leave, and the doors were shut.

I remember when I visited a monastery a few years ago for Vespers. I asked the abbot before the beginning of the service if it would be okay to take some pictures. He took of his hat, slapped me round the face with it, and shouted something along the lines of "SERVICES ARE FOR PRAYING!!!". I took that as a 'no'  Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2012, 04:03:39 PM »

 Cheesy
roll on the floor laughing, orthodox 11!
maybe he needed u to make him a nice cup of coffee after liturgy to cheer him up...
 Wink
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2012, 04:29:35 PM »

I'm sorry to read it Liza, but as sheenj has mentioned - such people are everywhere.

Every year on Christmas and Pascha I take my camera to take some pictures (and short movies) to have a kind of souvenir of there great feasts. I was considering to ask one of my friends to take some photos of my chrismation, but eventually I thought it's very personal and I should focus on the Mystery, not on the flashes; I "should have this moment inside me", not in the pictures.

I take my camera also for the pilgrimage to Grabarka and the feast of Transfiguration on the Grabarka, but I'm not taking pictures all the time and not during Communion. This year somephotographerss (rather non-Orthodox) were trying to get through the crowds too close to the priest giving the Holy Communion (the camera's lens werealmostt between priest's face and Chalice), which was very inappropriate so the priest asked them not to "make a comedy". But I'm sure that you Liza don't do such stupid things Wink BTW, pictures taken by you are amazing and beautiful, full of spirit Smiley

It's nice to see on Orthodox websites some reports with photos, so, all in all, I don't think it's bad thing to takepicturess in church. But not all the time and rather not during Communion. And of course the photographer must not run across the church and push people Wink
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2012, 04:40:21 PM »

One of my favorite photos of our parish Priest is that of his departed father receiving communion from his son, the Priest.
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2012, 04:50:32 PM »

I remember some odd months ago that someone took photos for a while during Liturgy.  The first while was O.K., but I started getting annoyed because I had to turn my head to keep the flash out of my eyes.  I never said anything about it.  This is the first time I have.  I would say take some photos at the beginning of the service but you may want to quit before Communion.  That lady should have spoken to you nicely.  She was out of line.
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2012, 06:18:04 PM »

I saw someone at the divine liturgy yesterday with a camera. The looks that person got, could have sent many of them to jail for a long time. But i understand it. I really do.
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2012, 07:06:47 PM »

Lisa your photos are beautiful, what filter do u run them through, hdr, soft focus filter?
I loose myself looking at your pics, love them and i actually felt jealous that you had permission to take the pics and be the church photographer, i assumed this. but i guess i am wrong.
considering the great amt of pics you have posted i assume you have 4x that amt in yr computer.
and with that in mind if you were just someone (not official photog) at my church snapping away like crazy every sunday, i think i would be mad. that's just me, i hate it when someone even talks to me during liturgy. I'm trying to concentrate on the liturgy not watching people take pics.
And consider I'm a photographer myself. anyway i see people every so often take pics at liturgy but its discreet and brief, just a few clicks on a cell phone.
i would also not like it at all if someone takes my pic while i am abt to or receiving holy communion. What is more personal than receiving comunion! to me it would be the same as voice recording me during confession.
also, i believe the church is a private place (in more ways then 1) so technically you are not allowed to take pics of the people.
I'm a great advocate for photographers rights (that are constantly being trampled on) but I'm not with u on this.
so i was just thinking, your not a pro photographer (u could be!)or even the official church photographer...do u have permission to post pics containing people at church.
again Awesome pics!
might b wrond abt the public place thing?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 07:36:53 PM by Nikolaostheservant » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2012, 08:26:33 PM »

First you already know I love your pictures.

Second we have people sometimes take pictures during our Divine Liturgy, our priest posts some of them on the church website. I for one must say I like seeing pictures of churches on their websites.

Third, I like the way you handled it. To me the notion that your first action was to go to the priest and she resisted that speaks volumes about the hearts of both parties. I agree with the others pray for her and seek reconciliation.
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« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2012, 09:51:41 PM »

Cheesy
roll on the floor laughing, orthodox 11!
maybe he needed u to make him a nice cup of coffee after liturgy to cheer him up...
 Wink

Never ask a question of a clergyman before he's had his coffee.
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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2012, 11:29:14 PM »

As long as you have a blessing to take pictures, then you can take pictures. If it's wrong, it's on the priest for giving the blessing. Plenty of people take pictures, and for various reasons. Some monasteries won't allow it (it depends on the monastery), and that is their prerogative. But if your priest says that it is OK, then it is OK.
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2012, 09:51:05 AM »

sometimes we think we have a reason to be annoyed with someone.
then the enemy whips up all sorts of unkind thoughts in our head,
and, if we accept them, we go a bit psycho and start yelling and screaming.

then, maybe, half way through the show, we realise we are way out of line.
but it would bad to calm down in the middle of a raging temper, so we justify ourselves and keep going.
then, too late, everything has gone wrong and we don't know how to fix it.

this maybe what happened to that lady.
pray for her. love her, and try to understand that she probably realises she has gone too far.

offer her a way back, just gently at first, so she can start to talk to you again.
offer her a cup of tea or a kind word, and show you have forgiven her without making it a big deal.

the enemy hates it when he fails to divide and anger us, he can't bear love and forgiveness.
so these are your best weapons at times of strife.

in terms of the photo thing, people do it in my church all the time, but i try not even to look if someone is taking Holy Communion,
it seems like a personal moment, and i wouldn't photo the chalice in case i get in the way of someone.
but i wouldn't start a shrieking, hysterical fit if someone else did it!
we should pray for people who do to find peace.


Amen. Good thoughts!


Selam
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2012, 10:18:39 AM »

Lisa your photos are beautiful, what filter do u run them through, hdr, soft focus filter?
I loose myself looking at your pics, love them and i actually felt jealous that you had permission to take the pics and be the church photographer, i assumed this. but i guess i am wrong.
considering the great amt of pics you have posted i assume you have 4x that amt in yr computer.
and with that in mind if you were just someone (not official photog) at my church snapping away like crazy every sunday, i think i would be mad. that's just me, i hate it when someone even talks to me during liturgy. I'm trying to concentrate on the liturgy not watching people take pics.
And consider I'm a photographer myself. anyway i see people every so often take pics at liturgy but its discreet and brief, just a few clicks on a cell phone.
i would also not like it at all if someone takes my pic while i am abt to or receiving holy communion. What is more personal than receiving comunion! to me it would be the same as voice recording me during confession.
also, i believe the church is a private place (in more ways then 1) so technically you are not allowed to take pics of the people.
I'm a great advocate for photographers rights (that are constantly being trampled on) but I'm not with u on this.
so i was just thinking, your not a pro photographer (u could be!)or even the official church photographer...do u have permission to post pics containing people at church.
again Awesome pics!
might b wrond abt the public place thing?

I do have permission.  As I said, I normally do not take photos in a church or monastery without first asking permission.  Nobody has told me "yes" but, not at this moment or at that....they just yes, please take photos....and usually they are excited by it.

No matter which parish I attend in my local area, all the priests know me and await a copy of my photos for their bulletins and webpages, showcasing whatever the Feast day or event was that I attended.

I also am the photographer for the COCC (Council of Orthodox Christian Churches) in the Detroit area....and take photos at all their events - pan-Orthodox Vespers, dances, special events, etc.

I try to be discreet and don't wonder around all throughout the Liturgy.  I know the order of the DL and know when the best photo-op presents itself...and I am at the ready.  Otherwise, I too, stand and pray.

I don't snap photos every Sunday, only on "special" out of the ordinary occasions.

Not only do I take photos, I am in charge of all the kids.  Therefore, when the bishop visits, for example, I am up front and center moving the kids from one point to the next.  First organizing them on the steps to greet him, then back in to the church to stand in the front.  I move them out to hold candles during the reading of the Gospel and the Great Entrance, and of course I am right there to make sure they have their arms crossed and stand quietly in line for Holy Communion....not to mention that I have to tell the Bishop all their names, as some are too young and shy to speak up.  In other words, I am already there.  I am standing right there at all the pivotal moments, and all I do is raise my camera and snap a photo.

I am certainly not a "professional" photographer.  It's just a hobby.

However, just like every other "talent" God has given me, I like to use it in His service.  I got it for free, and I try to give it back for free.  I never charge for any of my services as a photographer. 

Also, if you've noticed any of my photos in the "photos" thread, http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44082.0.html, I never simply focus on individuals as they are praying or intrude in their "private" moments.  I just want to share the beauty that I see before me, the beauty that is Orthodoxy with the rest of the world.

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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2012, 10:41:17 AM »

Lisa your photos are beautiful, what filter do u run them through, hdr, soft focus filter?
I loose myself looking at your pics, love them and i actually felt jealous that you had permission to take the pics and be the church photographer, i assumed this. but i guess i am wrong.
considering the great amt of pics you have posted i assume you have 4x that amt in yr computer.
and with that in mind if you were just someone (not official photog) at my church snapping away like crazy every sunday, i think i would be mad. that's just me, i hate it when someone even talks to me during liturgy. I'm trying to concentrate on the liturgy not watching people take pics.
And consider I'm a photographer myself. anyway i see people every so often take pics at liturgy but its discreet and brief, just a few clicks on a cell phone.
i would also not like it at all if someone takes my pic while i am abt to or receiving holy communion. What is more personal than receiving comunion! to me it would be the same as voice recording me during confession.
also, i believe the church is a private place (in more ways then 1) so technically you are not allowed to take pics of the people.
I'm a great advocate for photographers rights (that are constantly being trampled on) but I'm not with u on this.
so i was just thinking, your not a pro photographer (u could be!)or even the official church photographer...do u have permission to post pics containing people at church.
again Awesome pics!
might b wrond abt the public place thing?

I do have permission.  As I said, I normally do not take photos in a church or monastery without first asking permission.  Nobody has told me "yes" but, not at this moment or at that....they just yes, please take photos....and usually they are excited by it.
If u have permission then no problems---technically. but wht if it ruins DL for a handfull of people?

No matter which parish I attend in my local area, all the priests know me and await a copy of my photos for their bulletins and webpages, showcasing whatever the Feast day or event was that I attended. I would also!

I also am the photographer for the COCC (Council of Orthodox Christian Churches) in the Detroit area....and take photos at all their events - pan-Orthodox Vespers, dances, special events, etc.

I try to be discreet and don't wonder around all throughout the Liturgy.  I know the order of the DL and know when the best photo-op presents itself...and I am at the ready.  Otherwise, I too, stand and pray. i think im just greedy, i cant appreciate DL if im doing other things, i will try. What do u use an slr or a sm camera?

I don't snap photos every Sunday, only on "special" out of the ordinary occasions. i made alot of assumptions based on yr post, and i guess your another person that put me on there list of a hol*s

Not only do I take photos, I am in charge of all the kids.  Therefore, when the bishop visits, for example, I am up front and center moving the kids from one point to the next.  First organizing them on the steps to greet him, then back in to the church to stand in the front.  I move them out to hold candles during the reading of the Gospel and the Great Entrance, and of course I am right there to make sure they have their arms crossed and stand quietly in line for Holy Communion....not to mention that I have to tell the Bishop all their names, as some are too young and shy to speak up.  In other words, I am already there.  I am standing right there at all the pivotal moments, and all I do is raise my camera and snap a photo.gota say again, wow! im def a greedy person whanting not to be interacted with during DL. gota change


I am certainly not a "professional" photographer.  It's just a hobby. u could be!

However, just like every other "talent" God has given me, I like to use it in His service.  I got it for free, and I try to give it back for free.  I never charge for any of my services as a photographer. again im def greedy, but i wouldent charge the church, even though my camera was NOT for free

Also, if you've noticed any of my photos in the "photos" thread, http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44082.0.html, I never simply focus on individuals as they are praying or intrude in their "private" moments.  I just want to share the beauty that I see before me, the beauty that is Orthodoxy with the rest of the world.
BUT you pissed off that lady, and prob ruined her sunday! i dare assume again. And you probably have at the very least annoyed otheres caus u said the went around talking abt u before she confrunted you? so again i dare assume, i bet there are others who are bothered by the photos taken at chruch. but do not want confrontaion, you asaulting them and draging them to the priest!
well u asked for opinions posting here, as a modorator u should expect to get them! or maybe u think that your position will force everyone to agree with you-----as in the church?


« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 10:44:26 AM by Nikolaostheservant » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2012, 10:59:19 AM »

Liza, I have never seen any of your photos that invade private moments or appear to have been taken in such a way as to be disruptive. You (or someone with your gifts) would be welcome to take photos in my parish. I would love to see what you could do with our humble makeshift set-up-for-every-service arrangement. Next time you're in Niagara, I hope you look us up!

(PS - that's not an open invitation to all shutterbugs! I need evidence of good quality  Wink police)
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2012, 11:06:34 AM »

Liza, I have never seen any of your photos that invade private moments or appear to have been taken in such a way as to be disruptive. You (or someone with your gifts) would be welcome to take photos in my parish. I would love to see what you could do with our humble makeshift set-up-for-every-service arrangement. Next time you're in Niagara, I hope you look us up!

(PS - that's not an open invitation to all shutterbugs! I need evidence of good quality  Wink police)

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44082.0.html

do you realy belive all those people marching or in prayer realy want to have there pic taken while at church!
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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2012, 11:09:03 AM »


If u have permission then no problems---technically. but wht if it ruins DL for a handfull of people?


Not a handful of people....just this one lady.


i think im just greedy, i cant appreciate DL if im doing other things, i will try. What do u use an slr or a sm camera?

Some days one has to be a Martha, others a Mary.  You can't just be one.  Someone has to actually "do" stuff, and not everyone has the luxury of simply focusing on self.

Just this summer I broke the bank and upgraded to a Nikon D5100.

I don't snap photos every Sunday, only on "special" out of the ordinary occasions. i made alot of assumptions based on yr post, and i guess your another person that put me on there list of a hol*s

Not sure what hol*s is....but, I normally don't keep lists of people.


gota say again, wow! im def a greedy person whanting not to be interacted with during DL. gota change

I don't "interact" with anyone.  I don't speak to any adults, unless they grab me and ask me questions...which often they do.  The only other people I interact with are the kids, who are in constant need of attention.....as I keep them "in" church for DL, and only let them go and play afterwards.


BUT you pissed off that lady, and prob ruined her sunday! i dare assume again. And you probably have at the very least annoyed otheres caus u said the went around talking abt u before she confrunted you? so again i dare assume, i bet there are others who are bothered by the photos taken at chruch. but do not want confrontaion, you asaulting them and draging them to the priest!

She ruined my day....and you are again making too many assumptions. 

The people were only whispering because she had made the rounds of the tables....and they were watching to see what I would do when she approached me....everyone was ready for a show down, that I would start crying or yelling back to her or whatever. 

I didn't give them a show.  I took her to the priest.  If she has a Liturgical issue, than it's not enough to only tell me....we need to find out what's right or wrong...and who better to give a reply than the priest of whom I was taking the photo?  I hardly assaulted her.  She assaulted me.  She was grabbing and squeezing my hands, and all I did was take her 3 steps to where the priest was sitting and enjoying his coffee.  I didn't drag her a mile, it was all of three steps.

If she didn't wish the issue brought before the priest, than she shouldn't have said anything. 

well u asked for opinions posting here, as a modorator u should expect to get them! or maybe u think that your position will force everyone to agree with you-----as in the church?
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well u asked for opinions posting here, as a modorator u should expect to get them! or maybe u think that your position will force everyone to agree with you-----as in the church?
[/color]


Again, not sure what you are trying to say here.  I did ask for opinions and was simply replying to your assumptions.

I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me....they seldom do. 

...and I think it's insulting to state that because I am a moderator that I wish to force everyone to agree with me, simply because I am a moderator.  Where did you get that from? 

Because I am a moderator, are you saying I can no longer post or ask questions or offer opinions? 

This ONE old lady also complained about me because I come on Saturdays to prepare food for Sunday....and that I waste too much of the electricity by having the lights going Saturday evening.  She also complained about me making lunches throughout the summer, because the church is half empty on summer Sundays and again I waste resources to only feed 30 people instead of 50.  She also complained about me having the kids throw rose petals when they greeted the bishop, because that's a Latin innovation....She complained that the kids hung to many red bows in the church for Christmas....She also complained when her 80+ year old husband would come and speak to me....accusing me of flirting with him.  I am not angry with her, but, this lady always complains....and I always simply smile and nod....yet, this time I thought her complaint should be addressed, as the priest was sitting right there.

My questions wasn't about this one old lady, or her actions, my question concerned other parishes and if they allow or disallow the taking of photos during Divine Liturgy.

You, my friend, make too many assumptions.



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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2012, 11:10:16 AM »

Liza, I have never seen any of your photos that invade private moments or appear to have been taken in such a way as to be disruptive. You (or someone with your gifts) would be welcome to take photos in my parish. I would love to see what you could do with our humble makeshift set-up-for-every-service arrangement. Next time you're in Niagara, I hope you look us up!

(PS - that's not an open invitation to all shutterbugs! I need evidence of good quality  Wink police)

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44082.0.html

do you realy belive all those people marching or in prayer realy want to have there pic taken while at church!

Actually, most have asked for copies of the photo.  Smiley

On occasion, because we do celebrate on the Old Calendar, we have the media cover our Feast Days...especially Pascha and the Nativity. 

What do you say to that? 

People were thrilled to see themselves on the news and in the newspaper.

It was good "advertising" or Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2012, 11:12:02 AM »

Liza, I have never seen any of your photos that invade private moments or appear to have been taken in such a way as to be disruptive. You (or someone with your gifts) would be welcome to take photos in my parish. I would love to see what you could do with our humble makeshift set-up-for-every-service arrangement. Next time you're in Niagara, I hope you look us up!

(PS - that's not an open invitation to all shutterbugs! I need evidence of good quality  Wink police)

Thanks!

I will definitely look you up!  Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2012, 11:18:38 AM »

When the Bishop comes to our parish, he tells everyone to turn their cameras off after the Liturgy of the Catechumens.

I don't like seeing photos from inside the altar. And while I don't particularly agree with having photos inside the church, it's so widespread that there isn't much you can do about it. I've seen one photo from inside a church that predates the 1950's-60's.

It's a personal opinion. Usually, that is what goes through my head. I don't get upset and I don't try to focus too much on people taking the photos. I can see why they would.
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« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2012, 11:30:53 AM »

Let it go. It's obvious that this poor lady has lots of other "issues."
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« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2012, 11:41:36 AM »


If u have permission then no problems---technically. but wht if it ruins DL for a handfull of people?


Not a handful of people....just this one lady. but that is wht im saying---not everone speaks up


i think im just greedy, i cant appreciate DL if im doing other things, i will try. What do u use an slr or a sm camera?

Some days one has to be a Martha, others a Mary.  You can't just be one.  Someone has to actually "do" stuff, and not everyone has the luxury of simply focusing on self. i know, very true

Just this summer I broke the bank and upgraded to a Nikon D5100. nice! reason i ask is a slr=much more intimidating then a point &shoot cam

I don't snap photos every Sunday, only on "special" out of the ordinary occasions. i made alot of assumptions based on yr post, and i guess your another person that put me on there list of a hol*s

Not sure what hol*s is....but, I normally don't keep lists of people.


gota say again, wow! im def a greedy person whanting not to be interacted with during DL. gota change

I don't "interact" with anyone.  I don't speak to any adults, unless they grab me and ask me questions...which often they do.  The only other people I interact with are the kids, who are in constant need of attention.....as I keep them "in" church for DL, and only let them go and play afterwards.


BUT you pissed off that lady, and prob ruined her sunday! i dare assume again. And you probably have at the very least annoyed otheres caus u said the went around talking abt u before she confrunted you? so again i dare assume, i bet there are others who are bothered by the photos taken at chruch. but do not want confrontaion, you asaulting them and draging them to the priest!

She ruined my day....and you are again making too many assumptions. but u were fine until she ruined ur day! if she never said anything to u you would have never known someone was mad at your photography  

The people were only whispering because she had made the rounds of the tables....and they were watching to see what I would do when she approached me....everyone was ready for a show down, that I would start crying or yelling back to her or whatever. this is your assumption. i make assumptions cause of the limited info on the net and cause im not there

I didn't give them a show.  I took her to the priest.  If she has a Liturgical issue, than it's not enough to only tell me....we need to find out what's right or wrong...and who better to give a reply than the priest of whom I was taking the photo?  I hardly assaulted her.  She assaulted me.  She was grabbing and squeezing my hands, and all I did was take her 3 steps to where the priest was sitting and enjoying his coffee.  I didn't drag her a mile, it was all of three steps. u both asaulted each other then, there is not hardly in asaults. it was done or not

If she didn't wish the issue brought before the priest, than she shouldn't have said anything.  

well u asked for opinions posting here, as a modorator u should expect to get them! or maybe u think that your position will force everyone to agree with you-----as in the church?
[/color]


well u asked for opinions posting here, as a modorator u should expect to get them! or maybe u think that your position will force everyone to agree with you-----as in the church?
[/color]


Again, not sure what you are trying to say here.  I did ask for opinions and was simply replying to your assumptions.

I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me....they seldom do.  

...and I think it's insulting to state that because I am a moderator that I wish to force everyone to agree with me, simply because I am a moderator.  Where did you get that from? U came off as huffy with this post."can u belive the nerve of some ppl being mad caus im taking pics" as u did with the lady in question.

Because I am a moderator, are you saying I can no longer post or ask questions or offer opinions?  no way bit it sounds like u r very mad cause i contradicted you?

This ONE old lady also complained about me because I come on Saturdays to prepare food for Sunday....and that I waste too much of the electricity by having the lights going Saturday evening.  She also complained about me making lunches throughout the summer, because the church is half empty on summer Sundays and again I waste resources to only feed 30 people instead of 50.  She also complained about me having the kids throw rose petals when they greeted the bishop, because that's a Latin innovation....She complained that the kids hung to many red bows in the church for Christmas....She also complained when her 80+ year old husband would come and speak to me....accusing me of flirting with him.  I am not angry with her, but, this lady always complains....and I always simply smile and nod....yet, this time I thought her complaint should be addressed, as the priest was sitting right there.
WOW-thats why i dont hang around churc much after DL, WAY to many egos and dramas going on!

My questions wasn't about this one old lady, or her actions, my question concerned other parishes and if they allow or disallow the taking of photos during Divine Liturgy. i usually see someone snapping a cell pic during DL, its unobtousive and quick. whether they allow it or not! i guess i trying to say we ALL go to church together, if the priest allows u to take pics that does not mean that otheres are not bothered by it. and im also trying to say that (i bet imright) that 1 "old lady" represents more peopel who would never say anything but ate bothered by it.

You, my friend, make too many assumptions.
Like i said, we have to, i was not there nore do i know what happened realy or in everyones mind. just your side of the story--there is always at the very least 2 sides.

And please stop flirting with that 80 yr old man, your gona give him a heart attack!




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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2012, 11:47:51 AM »

Let it go. It's obvious that this poor lady has lots of other "issues."

Yes, I know.  That's one reason I took her to the priest....just to curb her need to belittle everyone, all the time.

I'm not upset with her, and even told others to drop it when they expressed concern over her behavior.  My issue isn't with her.

I was only interested in what others do/do not do, in their parishes as far as photography.....because I only know that which I have been exposed to....

One never realizes they are wrong, if that's all they know....I'm always open to learning, because I would never willfully break any Church "laws".

My personal intention with the photos is to spread Orthodoxy, not to interfere with others.



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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2012, 12:06:52 PM »

I was only interested in what others do/do not do, in their parishes as far as photography.....because I only know that which I have been exposed to....

There's an old man who often visits our church for feasts and is a good friend of all the clergy. When he comes he usually has a camera with him and has the bishop's permission to take some photos during the service. On the whole I would say that he's very discrete. He only takes a few pictures, and he tries to move and stand in the most unobtrusive manner possible. Nevertheless, many people complain after the service about how distracting it is when he's there taking pictures, but amongst themselves, not to the priests or the person in question.

When I've brought my non-Orthodox family members with me to church on feast days at other churches where pictures are normally taken, it's the first thing they mention afterwards. They're shocked that the priest would allow the most solemn moments of the Church calendar to be disturbed in such a way. And they're just there as spectators, not to pray.


When it comes to the Liturgy of the Faithful, the emphasis has always been on privacy and intimacy, and on the whole I would consider photography antithetical to the nature of that service. During other services I think it's more a case of curtesy and of being considerate to those around you, which will naturally vary greatly from parish to parish depending on how discrete you're able to be and how the others feel about photography.


You're a great photographer and, at least in my opinion, the most beautiful pictures you've posted are ones that have been, or at least could have been, taken outside of any of the divine services, or during unobtrusive moments such as outdoor processions where few would even notice someone with a camera standing a few feet away. So I feel your photos are a beautiful testimony to the fact that you can promote Orthodoxy through that medium without having to do so in the middle of the Divine Liturgy.
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« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2012, 12:15:20 PM »


Just as a side note....I usually arrive EARLY to take photos of churches, when candles are lit, but, people haven't arrived....and am always the last to leave....when candles are still lit, and people have left.

If I plan to take photos, I stand up front so I am already positioned for the photo taking...without needing to "walk" around.

During the Pan-Orthodox Vespers everyone is off having coffee and socializing, and I will spend a good 30 minutes taking photos of the still, and peaceful church.

I DO try not to interfere....and be as discreet as possible.

All the photos of the Holy Cross or the Plashchantisya during Great Lent and Holy Week were taken in an empty church.

My only photos of "people" are during Pascha and church picnics or other social events.
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« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2012, 12:19:02 PM »


Just as a side note....I usually arrive EARLY to take photos of churches, when candles are lit, but, people haven't arrived....and am always the last to leave....when candles are still lit, and people have left.

If I plan to take photos, I stand up front so I am already positioned for the photo taking...without needing to "walk" around.

During the Pan-Orthodox Vespers everyone is off having coffee and socializing, and I will spend a good 30 minutes taking photos of the still, and peaceful church.

I DO try not to interfere....and be as discreet as possible.

All the photos of the Holy Cross or the Plashchantisya during Great Lent and Holy Week were taken in an empty church.

My only photos of "people" are during Pascha and church picnics or other social events.

Don't see why anyone would have a problem with you taking pictures of an empty church. I certainly appreciate the ones you post Smiley Keep it up.
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« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2012, 12:37:50 PM »


Just as a side note....I usually arrive EARLY to take photos of churches, when candles are lit, but, people haven't arrived....and am always the last to leave....when candles are still lit, and people have left.

If I plan to take photos, I stand up front so I am already positioned for the photo taking...without needing to "walk" around.

During the Pan-Orthodox Vespers everyone is off having coffee and socializing, and I will spend a good 30 minutes taking photos of the still, and peaceful church.

I DO try not to interfere....and be as discreet as possible.

All the photos of the Holy Cross or the Plashchantisya during Great Lent and Holy Week were taken in an empty church.

My only photos of "people" are during Pascha and church picnics or other social events.

Don't see why anyone would have a problem with you taking pictures of an empty church. I certainly appreciate the ones you post Smiley Keep it up.

Absolutely, you would not be bothering anyone taking pics of the empty church and details/macro photography!

your pics are truly beautiful and inspiring. the best i have seen in "church" photography, they have a dreamy Holiness to them!

why dnt you get a website and post them ALL up so everyone can see them in one place?

makes me want to ask my Priest if i can come early or late and take pics? but then again, i like being a faceless nameless person at church. I avoid at all costs the drama!
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« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2012, 02:02:36 PM »

Yes, I know.  That's one reason I took her to the priest....just to curb her need to belittle everyone, all the time.

I'm not upset with her, and even told others to drop it when they expressed concern over her behavior.  My issue isn't with her.

I was only interested in what others do/do not do, in their parishes as far as photography.....because I only know that which I have been exposed to....

At my church there are pictures taken at all times, including videos taking of the priest inside the Sanctuary. No one has ever said no. This seems to be the norm.

That said, it seems strange to me.

I don't see how it could be wrong to take pictures of a Church building outside of the Liturgy. The building should be open for anyone to go in and pray at any time if possible. There's nothing secret about it.

Outside of the Liturgy of the Faithful (the Liturgy of the Word for example, or Matins), I don't see how it could be wrong to take pictures of the Church... The Liturgy of the Word is open to all, not just Orthodox Christians. There is nothing secret. But, it's important to not disrupt people or photograph them without their consent. Lots of people might not want their picture on the Internet showing them at Church, or even want their picture online at all. People should be focusing on praying, and disrupting that should be avoided. But, as long as it's careful, occasional, and respectful, I don't see how it could be called wrong.

The Liturgy of the Faithful on the other hand is private. It is not open to all. It does not seem right to me to take pictures at this time. I would include in this the corresponding parts of weddings and baptisms. Historically, the norm was for only the faithful to be present for this part... To me, Communion is only for the Baptised, and it is for unity with Christ and His Church, it is unity between the Bride and Bridegroom... It seems nearly pornographic to take pictures of this. But, this is just my opinion, and it has become the norm to take pictures and videos during this time.

You had permission, you clearly did nothing wrong. How anyone could criticize you is beyond me. But even if you had committed some heinous crime, there is a Christian and loving way to offer correction in a spirit of reconciliation... and that sure wasn't it. I find people who feel the need to take it upon themselves to police the Church, imposing their will, their desire for how things should be done on others very frustrating, and completely antithetical to what Christianity is supposed to be. But I don't think a parish can be found without such self-appointed police. It seems to me that the main thing is to always strive to not become those people, to deal with others in love, and to accept their "help" with thanksgiving as an opportunity to learn virtue, overcome anger, etc.
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« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2012, 02:06:15 PM »

At my church there are pictures taken at all times, including videos taking of the priest inside the Sanctuary. No one has ever said no. This seems to be the norm.

I think the first time I was told off for having a camera in church was at the Coptic monastery in Jerusalem. I had never been to a Coptic church before and had no idea what was going on, as soon as the priest saw me pull out a camera he made clear to me that this was very inappropriate. I was very surprised when I later attended Coptic churches in the UK and saw cameras all over the place.

Quote
That said, it seems strange to me.

I don't see how it could be wrong to take pictures of a Church building outside of the Liturgy. The building should be open for anyone to go in and pray at any time if possible. There's nothing secret about it.

Outside of the Liturgy of the Faithful (the Liturgy of the Word for example, or Matins), I don't see how it could be wrong to take pictures of the Church... The Liturgy of the Word is open to all, not just Orthodox Christians. There is nothing secret. But, it's important to not disrupt people or photograph them without their consent. Lots of people might not want their picture on the Internet showing them at Church, or even want their picture online at all. People should be focusing on praying, and disrupting that should be avoided. But, as long as it's careful, occasional, and respectful, I don't see how it could be called wrong.

The Liturgy of the Faithful on the other hand is private. It is not open to all. It does not seem right to me to take pictures at this time. I would include in this the corresponding parts of weddings and baptisms. Historically, the norm was for only the faithful to be present for this part... To me, Communion is only for the Baptised, and it is for unity with Christ and His Church, it is unity between the Bride and Bridegroom... It seems nearly pornographic to take pictures of this.

+1
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« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2012, 02:44:14 PM »


why dnt you get a website and post them ALL up so everyone can see them in one place?


Most of them are on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/esymonenko/photos_albums
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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2012, 03:41:32 PM »


why dnt you get a website and post them ALL up so everyone can see them in one place?


Most of them are on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/esymonenko/photos_albums


Wow! i just spent 40-60min going through your photos~beautiful.
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« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2012, 03:43:25 PM »


LOL!  No wonder my ears were burning!  Wink

Do you think I have fallen off the deep end? 

I just love Orthodoxy sooooo much!  ....and find it to be so beautiful that I want to share it!  Smiley
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« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2012, 03:49:22 PM »


LOL!  No wonder my ears were burning!  Wink

Do you think I have fallen off the deep end? 

Shouldn't it be your eyes then?

And,

I think most are better off falling off the deep than the shallow one.

I'll take 10+ feet of water to break my fall than two.

Idioms. What are you going to do?
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« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2012, 03:53:08 PM »


I'm going to rub my eyes and thank God it was the deep end.

Cheesy
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« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2012, 06:50:27 PM »

Liza,

You say you only ruined DL for just the one lady, but take into consideration that some others may have been bothered by the picture taking but did not wish to bring it up to you. That's exactly how I am. In my church, people walk about and engage in conversations and often distract me (this past Sunday a lady stood right in front of me, only a foot away, with her baby on her shoulder looking intently at me. i couldn't see past her or her child and it was incredibly annoying. She didn't take my presence into account and even bent down a few times to care to her child on the floor and had some close calls physically...if I didn't move back her butt would have backed right into me) but I don't have it in me to say anything.

I would personally like to take pictures during Liturgy, but wouldn't out of respect. If I were to take pictures, it would be before or after Liturgy.
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« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2012, 07:08:33 PM »



Was there no room anywhere else to stand that she stood right in front of you?  Could you have walked away and stood somewhere else?  

I hope my picture taking didn't distract too many people.  After all, I was already up front, and took all of 4 consecutive shots and put the camera down.  So, the whole thing lasted all of maybe 10 seconds.




« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 07:13:08 PM by LizaSymonenko » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2012, 07:37:07 PM »

I was standing in the very back corner (I go there because I have slight social anxiety, especially in groups of people I don't know). Wasn't really anywhere else I could go. It saddened me that she didn't take my feelings into account.

I'm not saying it's wrong or right to take pictures during Liturgy. I, personally, think your photos are great and would like to take pictures or even videos myself. However, I wouldn't do it so as not to offend anyone. If my priest said it was okay, though, I would consider it. But I haven't brought it up to him yet.
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« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2012, 07:50:15 PM »


I'm just curious....don't you have people constantly moving about in your church?

I know in mine, folks are coming, going, lighting candles, walking out to restroom, walking up to light candles, walking up to hold candles during the Great Entrance, etc.
It's alive and always active.

It's rare that the church is completely still.  That usually happens Saturday nights at Vespers, because there's nobody there!  LOL!  It's really, really....still and quiet then. 
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« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2012, 08:02:12 PM »

It is like that at my parish. Very much alive and nice. Btw: looked at some of your photos, excellent work. Hence my first comment: the photographer i saw bumped into people and disturbed them.

But i personally got no problems with anyone taking pics at service as long as they got permission from the priest, being discrete and do not disturb anyone during service.
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« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2012, 08:10:57 PM »

It's also most important to disable any sounds the (digital) camera makes, such as the bleep during focusing, the mock shutter sound, etc. If the camera is silent, then the distraction and annoyance factor is practically eliminated.

I have taken thousands of pictures in churches (film and digital) over many years, with permission, and without any complaints from anyone. Like Liza, I am frequently asked by priests and others to take pictures during special services, because they're happy with my work.
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« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2012, 09:20:41 PM »


I'm just curious....don't you have people constantly moving about in your church?

I know in mine, folks are coming, going, lighting candles, walking out to restroom, walking up to light candles, walking up to hold candles during the Great Entrance, etc.
It's alive and always active.

It's rare that the church is completely still.  That usually happens Saturday nights at Vespers, because there's nobody there!  LOL!  It's really, really....still and quiet then. 

It is like that at my parish. Very much alive and nice.

Like that in our parish too. Even on Saturday nights. We have church school on Saturday immediately preceding Vespers so always plenty of kids there very alive and active.
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