Author Topic: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?  (Read 729 times)

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Online Fabio Leite

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Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« on: November 13, 2013, 11:30:28 AM »
Quote
Blessed are you, mother earth, in your fleeting loveliness, Which wakens our yearning for happiness that will last for ever In the land where, amid beauty that grows not old,

Rings out the cry: Alleluia!
http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/akathist_creation

Seriously? "Blessed are you, mother earth"? Not to mention other pagan stuff like poets being vehicles to the "outpouring" of the Holy Spirit and the whole world being the bride and not only the Church. This points to something worse than heresy, it points to anti-christian apostasy.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 11:34:38 AM »
I think it's great. We sing this akathist at my parish on occasion.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 11:41:12 AM »
This is also known as the " Akathist Hymn: Give Glory to God for All Things. "

"It was composed by Metropolitan Tryphon (Prince Boris Petrovich Turkestanov) +1934  – but frequently attributed to Father Gregory Petrov, who died in a Soviet prison camp. It continues to grow in its popularity within the Orthodox Church. In my parish’s usage, we sing it to the Alaskan Akathist Melody, a simple, two-line, tune that can easily be adapted to the unpredictable number of lines in the hymn. With each day, some news of one thing or another reaches me that is cause either for distress or anxiety – but is met far better with prayer and thanksgiving. Either there is a God whom we trust or “we are of most men to be pitied.” I prefer to give thanks ."

http://glory2godforallthings.com/2007/08/08/akathist-hymn-glory-to-god-for-all-things/

This has been discussed at another thread here. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=26481.0;wap2

« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 11:42:08 AM by podkarpatska »

Online Fabio Leite

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 12:20:21 PM »
And no one sees the problem in the praise to "Mother Earth" there? Since when has our mother in the faith, the Theotokos, been substituted by dead rock floating in emptiness?

Or can it be a mistranslation?

As it is, it's a horrible apostate hymn.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 12:26:07 PM »
And no one sees the problem in the praise to "Mother Earth" there? Since when has our mother in the faith, the Theotokos, been substituted by dead rock floating in emptiness?

Or can it be a mistranslation?

As it is, it's a horrible apostate hymn.

I think you're reading way too much into the use of the phrase, honestly.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 12:28:32 PM »
And no one sees the problem in the praise to "Mother Earth" there? Since when has our mother in the faith, the Theotokos, been substituted by dead rock floating in emptiness?

Quote from: Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed man (Adam) from the dust of the ground (adama), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 12:28:45 PM »
And no one sees the problem in the praise to "Mother Earth" there? Since when has our mother in the faith, the Theotokos, been substituted by dead rock floating in emptiness?

Or can it be a mistranslation?

As it is, it's a horrible apostate hymn.

I think you're reading way too much into the use of the phrase, honestly.


+1

You missed the point, Fabio.

Online Fabio Leite

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 12:30:59 PM »
There is not "too much" there. It's not even a matter of interpretation.  "Mother earth" is a classic pagan deity, a standard phrase for all kinds of eco-paganism.

It's necessary to read "too much", i.e., what is not there, to overimpose any other meaning and not see what is right there.

And no one sees the problem in the praise to "Mother Earth" there? Since when has our mother in the faith, the Theotokos, been substituted by dead rock floating in emptiness?

Or can it be a mistranslation?

As it is, it's a horrible apostate hymn.

I think you're reading way too much into the use of the phrase, honestly.

Many energies, three persons, two natures, one God, one Church, one Baptism.

Online Fabio Leite

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 12:32:41 PM »
And you people *really* think that it makes the dust of the ground your mother? Jesus Christ! Or that it allows using a classic deity in a Christian hymn?

As images goes, you could as well refer to God as the Destroyer, or the Phallic Seeder and other grotesque images that, although make sense in terms of analogy, are absolutely unfit and dishonorable to God.

And no one sees the problem in the praise to "Mother Earth" there? Since when has our mother in the faith, the Theotokos, been substituted by dead rock floating in emptiness?

Quote from: Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed man (Adam) from the dust of the ground (adama), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 12:35:17 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 12:35:21 PM »
"Mother earth" is a classic pagan deity

As is "Mother of God", "Son of God", "Logos" etc.

Online Fabio Leite

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 12:40:28 PM »
It's a complete loss of aesthetical sense.

And the difference is that Mary is in reality, literally, the Mother of God. Jesus is literally the Son of God and the Logos (the later not really a deity, just a concept before Christianity).

Referring to nature as "mother earth" is a tragedy in any Christian context. At the least bad, it's a completely clueless blunder. At worst, an attempt from the evil one to dillute Christianity into a generic theistic religion.

"Mother earth" is a classic pagan deity

As is "Mother of God", "Son of God", "Logos" etc.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 12:40:50 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 12:47:12 PM »
And you people *really* think that it makes the dust of the ground your mother? Jesus Christ! Or that it allows using a classic deity in a Christian hymn?

Poetry. Figurative speech.

Hebrew adama is feminine. So is Russian zemlja and Greek ge. Most ancient cultures (even those which were christened) personify it as mother because of its fertility.

The Akathist Ηymn calls the Theotokos "untilled land which has sprouted the divine ear of wheat".  

Offline Alpo

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 12:47:31 PM »
And the difference is that Mary is in reality, literally, the Mother of God. Jesus is literally the Son of God and the Logos (the later not really a deity, just a concept before Christianity).

So while using names of Greek and Semitic pagan deities is correct names of other pagan deities are haram?

« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 12:49:28 PM by Alpo »

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 12:49:39 PM »
... an attempt from the evil one to dillute Christianity into a generic theistic religion.

Or is it an attempt by the evil one to lure people into getting worked up about it, making Christianity look foolish and weak?  :police:

Online Fabio Leite

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 12:56:27 PM »
For grammatically challenged frog-brained gnomes unable to sense the Dark Side in not one, but three Dark Lords with whom he had frequent contact, maybe.

For those who understand the difference between being forced to use some names because they describe a literal fact and making spurious references, it does make a lot of sense.

So, are you ready to refer to nature in general as Mother Earth, just like you use Mother of God? It will surely make you a swell guy among the smiling folks.

And the difference is that Mary is in reality, literally, the Mother of God. Jesus is literally the Son of God and the Logos (the later not really a deity, just a concept before Christianity).

So while using names of Greek and Semitic pagan deities is correct names of other pagan deities are haram?


« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 01:01:47 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Online Fabio Leite

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2013, 01:00:25 PM »
If he wanted that, he would make people think sarcasm is a kind of intelligence instead of giving them some kind of literary perception of poetic mood and style. Then, of course, they could differentiate a clearly pagan poem from a Christian one, but well, I guess the intelligent thing is to accept everything as they come. No wonder that some people think that even actual physical violence is acceptable when it comes from a bishop. But to be so unforgiven is a trait of the worked up. Right.

... an attempt from the evil one to dillute Christianity into a generic theistic religion.

Or is it an attempt by the evil one to lure people into getting worked up about it, making Christianity look foolish and weak?  :police:
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2013, 02:16:41 PM »
For what it's worth, the phrase in question is translated the same in both referenced translations; the Greek and the ROCOR.   Does anyone have access to the original 1934 text, which I presume was written in Church Slavonic. Also, perhaps a Ukrainian vernacular version exists as well.

I suspect the Slavonic "zemlya" is used as part of the phrasing. Perhaps someone from ROCOR could help here?

If my memory serves me right, I think the OP  is reading what he wants to read into this Akathist based on comments in other threads where the EP s environmental activism has been debated. If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 02:20:48 PM »
"Seek, and you will find" evidently applies also to heresies and apostasy. 
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2013, 02:49:51 PM »
fabio, you might wanna check there is an antiphon at sunday matins that runs like "to his mother, the earth, all mortal man/earthling returns..."

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 03:13:45 PM »
One would think that, if the particular excerpt is so against Orthodox teachings, someone would have spoken up against it. It's hardly a brand-new piece of work, and especially after the late Sir John Tavener's sublime setting (1987), it has come to the attention of people from all walks of life and spirituality. Still, I can find absolutely nothing on the internet against the Akathist - only the text, as an appropriate service in several jurisdictions.

Sorry, Fabio, it seems you're on your own here.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2013, 03:27:56 PM »
fabio, you might wanna check there is an antiphon at sunday matins that runs like "to his mother, the earth, all mortal man/earthling returns..."

Good catch!

The Third Antiphon of the 8th Tone reads (emphasis mine):
Quote
To you have I cried, O Lord. Listen and incline your ear towards me when I shout. Purify me before you take me from this place.

Everyone will return again to his mother, the earth, and shall suffer dissolution, to receive punishment or reward, the desserts of his life.

source: http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/sundayorthros
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Akathist in Praise of God's Creation?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2013, 03:38:52 PM »
"Mother earth" is a classic pagan deity, a standard phrase for all kinds of eco-paganism.

Because we know the 1930's were filled with eco-paganism and environmentalists. :angel: