Author Topic: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...  (Read 47606 times)

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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #720 on: May 10, 2015, 02:49:05 AM »
I myself am convinced in the existence of Mohammed.  He was a caravan trader who traveling from was to Arabians the glorious center of religion and trade, to cities that made Mecca look like a bit of a hick town.  In places like Jerusalem, Edessa and Babylon he doubtless experienced Christianity and Judaism but was never properly catechized; I suspect when visiting some point on his journey he had intimate contact with some Gnostic or Arian Christians and he probably dabled in the occult.

Except that, Mecca wasn;t a trading center. Modern archeology shows that Mecca wasn't any such a place. One point that is mentioned in the book. All of the Muhammadan mythology comes from two centuries later in the Arab Caliphate, centered in Persia and Iraq. None of it is contemporary, Muhammad didn;t preach Islam. He preached a heretical form of Christianity. The Arab Caliphate preached, and likely created, Islam.

Quote
I myself however am prepared to accept uncritically the history the Muslims give us of Mohammed

Except that 'history' comes 200 years after Muhammad supposedly existed, and the most "authentic" aspects of it are, admittedly, less than 1% of the entire tradition that proliferated at the time.

Anyway, the book looks fantastic from the look of the sources he used. That's the heart of the issue. When you want to know the credibility of a book on history, read the sources.

He also produced a documentary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg8n5oGYECE
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 03:01:07 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #721 on: May 10, 2015, 03:25:55 AM »
...and was also a hypocrite and in no control of his passions as relate to vengeance or sexuality.  In particular the disturbing Aisha narrative seems to me to make a major case against Islam.

But Moses wasn't? There's a whole tribe of Midianites who'd say otherwise. Although to be fair, in the Old Testament we know that the conquest of Canaan was of special circumstances directly ordained by God whereas in Islam, like Protestantism, there seems to be no doctrine stating that these events were confined to one period only. Hence both Islam and Protestantism's exceptionally high proneness to fundamentalism opposed to other religions.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #722 on: May 10, 2015, 03:29:51 AM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #723 on: May 10, 2015, 03:39:32 AM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?

Allah creates evil, because he can. He puts people in hell, also because he can.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #724 on: May 10, 2015, 03:48:00 AM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?

Allah creates evil, because he can. He puts people in hell, also because he can.

Sounds a lot like the book of Job. At least Islam and its Abrahamic cousins have that much in common.
Until I see the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, I will not believe.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #725 on: May 10, 2015, 04:01:42 AM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?

Allah creates evil, because he can. He puts people in hell, also because he can.

Sounds a lot like the book of Job. At least Islam and its Abrahamic cousins have that much in common.

I guess... but the difference is that, Allah could have guided all men to the truth, but he wanted to fill up hell, so... whatever Allah decrees, he decrees. (al-Sajda 32:13) Whereas, God has brought us the truth (John 6:51) and has given us the will to reject or accept it but wants us to accept it. (2 Timothy 2:4)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 04:03:46 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #726 on: May 10, 2015, 04:03:44 AM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?

Allah creates evil, because he can. He puts people in hell, also because he can.

Sounds a lot like the book of Job. At least Islam and its Abrahamic cousins have that much in common.

I guess... but the difference is that, Allah could have guided all men to the truth, but he wanted to fill up hell, so... whatever Allah decrees, he decrees. (al-Sajda 32:13) Whereas, God has brought us the truth (John 6:51) and has give us the will to reject or accept it and wants us to. (2 Timothy 2:4)

Would it be fair to say that Islam is similar to Calvinism with the predestination God chooses to send people to Hell thing?
Until I see the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, I will not believe.

Offline Echa

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #727 on: May 10, 2015, 09:05:41 AM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?

Allah creates evil, because he can. He puts people in hell, also because he can.

Sounds a lot like the book of Job. At least Islam and its Abrahamic cousins have that much in common.

I guess... but the difference is that, Allah could have guided all men to the truth, but he wanted to fill up hell, so... whatever Allah decrees, he decrees. (al-Sajda 32:13) Whereas, God has brought us the truth (John 6:51) and has give us the will to reject or accept it and wants us to. (2 Timothy 2:4)

Would it be fair to say that Islam is similar to Calvinism with the predestination God chooses to send people to Hell thing?

Like saying: oh, you're not a Muslim, so no matter what you do, it doesnt matter, you're going to hell because you're not God's chosen people?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 09:06:20 AM by Echa »
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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #728 on: May 10, 2015, 09:19:01 AM »
I myself am convinced in the existence of Mohammed.  He was a caravan trader who traveling from was to Arabians the glorious center of religion and trade, to cities that made Mecca look like a bit of a hick town.  In places like Jerusalem, Edessa and Babylon he doubtless experienced Christianity and Judaism but was never properly catechized; I suspect when visiting some point on his journey he had intimate contact with some Gnostic or Arian Christians and he probably dabled in the occult.

Except that, Mecca wasn;t a trading center. Modern archeology shows that Mecca wasn't any such a place. One point that is mentioned in the book. All of the Muhammadan mythology comes from two centuries later in the Arab Caliphate, centered in Persia and Iraq. None of it is contemporary, Muhammad didn;t preach Islam. He preached a heretical form of Christianity. The Arab Caliphate preached, and likely created, Islam.

Quote
I myself however am prepared to accept uncritically the history the Muslims give us of Mohammed

Except that 'history' comes 200 years after Muhammad supposedly exist

I'm sorry Ortho, and I hope & pray you continue in your Orthodox ways, but that British piece of propaganda does not wash with me. It seems geared to the 12 to 21 year old crowd of searching folks or the hateful folks who want to justify and find what is wrong with Islam. Much is wrong with Islam but this is a "movie" to stab at the root, as is done with Christianity, by those with lots of letters after their names. Worthy of the work they did to get that education, but not of the heart that moves them.
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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #729 on: May 10, 2015, 09:13:43 PM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?

Allah creates evil, because he can. He puts people in hell, also because he can.

Sounds a lot like the book of Job. At least Islam and its Abrahamic cousins have that much in common.

I guess... but the difference is that, Allah could have guided all men to the truth, but he wanted to fill up hell, so... whatever Allah decrees, he decrees. (al-Sajda 32:13) Whereas, God has brought us the truth (John 6:51) and has give us the will to reject or accept it and wants us to. (2 Timothy 2:4)

Would it be fair to say that Islam is similar to Calvinism with the predestination God chooses to send people to Hell thing?

Like saying: oh, you're not a Muslim, so no matter what you do, it doesnt matter, you're going to hell because you're not God's chosen people?

Not exactly, because Islam does accept converts.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #730 on: May 15, 2015, 05:13:08 AM »
Is primogeniture a part of Islamic inheritance laws? I think that the eldest child should be entitled to a larger share since they take on more responsibilities growing up than the younger children do. But then the West became obsessed with that whole "equality" thing even though equality doesn't always necessarily equal fairness.
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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #731 on: May 15, 2015, 10:41:22 AM »
Is primogeniture a part of Islamic inheritance laws? I think that the eldest child should be entitled to a larger share since they take on more responsibilities growing up than the younger children do. But then the West became obsessed with that whole "equality" thing even though equality doesn't always necessarily equal fairness.

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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #732 on: May 15, 2015, 11:01:49 AM »
Well I'll ask Islam the same question I ask all religions.

What is your solution to the problem of evil? And why should I worship Allah in light of this dilemma? What makes him worthy of worship? At least with the Christian God, I can take some consolation in the fact that God became man and suffered like we did. I know that He is not completely passive but was at least willing to get his hands dirty by participating and doing everything that he expects us to do. But if Allah did not become incarnate, why should I worship him? What makes him worthy of worship and how does Islam solve the problem of evil? The only reason I even consider Christianity in all my misotheistic angst is due to the Incarnation; if Islam has no incarnation, what does it offer to someone like me as well as to those of a Western American democracy mindset who don't believe that beings are entitled to worship and honor just by virtue of their power?

Allah creates evil, because he can. He puts people in hell, also because he can.

Sounds a lot like the book of Job. At least Islam and its Abrahamic cousins have that much in common.

I guess... but the difference is that, Allah could have guided all men to the truth, but he wanted to fill up hell, so... whatever Allah decrees, he decrees. (al-Sajda 32:13) Whereas, God has brought us the truth (John 6:51) and has give us the will to reject or accept it and wants us to. (2 Timothy 2:4)

Would it be fair to say that Islam is similar to Calvinism with the predestination God chooses to send people to Hell thing?

Like saying: oh, you're not a Muslim, so no matter what you do, it doesnt matter, you're going to hell because you're not God's chosen people?

Not exactly, because Islam does accept converts.

They convert because Allah willed it, nothing more. We remain non-Muslims because Allah willed it as well. He wills it, and we pay the price.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #733 on: May 15, 2015, 11:04:05 AM »
Is primogeniture a part of Islamic inheritance laws? I think that the eldest child should be entitled to a larger share since they take on more responsibilities growing up than the younger children do. But then the West became obsessed with that whole "equality" thing even though equality doesn't always necessarily equal fairness.

I think that's the case, I am not the one to ask on inheritance laws. I know it's pretty damn confusing though. Last time I read a text on Islamic law, that is.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 11:04:35 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #734 on: May 15, 2015, 12:11:20 PM »
Were you dumped by Islam or something? 
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