Author Topic: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...  (Read 38055 times)

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Offline Syriac.Aramaic

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #675 on: December 20, 2014, 01:16:46 PM »
You will kill non-muslims to receive 72 virgins:
9:111

I didn't check the other verses you cited, but the Quran (as far as I know) doesn't include anything about 72 virgins.  Even this verse you gave says nothing about virgins.

You probably meant 9:11, which doesn't put a number to these virgins.  Does your criticism still stand?
Yes my criticism stand.
I quote what Sunan al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2562 says: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen]”

Imam, and muslim around the world link the quran verse 9:111 with the hadiths, and in that way explain that there will be 72 virgins in heaven. I know several other hadiths that clearly says that 72 virgins are waiting in heaven, but i have them only in arabic and i don't have the time to translate them.

Dear John, you need to read the hadiths, and other auhtentic material on arabic in order to understand islam correct. Surely a muslim can copy and paste quran versers that includes things like love etc, and the person with no knowledge will fall for their hypocrite.
But when you open the hadiths, and compare them with versers and chapters in the quran you will realise that ISIS, Al qaeda, boko haram etc are those who are the real muslims.
Watch the video by david wood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXBgqa-xQwY
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 01:17:59 PM by Syriac.Aramaic »
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #676 on: December 20, 2014, 06:47:32 PM »
You will kill non-muslims to receive 72 virgins:
9:111

I didn't check the other verses you cited, but the Quran (as far as I know) doesn't include anything about 72 virgins.  Even this verse you gave says nothing about virgins.

You probably meant 9:11, which doesn't put a number to these virgins.  Does your criticism still stand?
Yes my criticism stand.
I quote what Sunan al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2562 says: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen]”

Imam, and muslim around the world link the quran verse 9:111 with the hadiths, and in that way explain that there will be 72 virgins in heaven. I know several other hadiths that clearly says that 72 virgins are waiting in heaven, but i have them only in arabic and i don't have the time to translate them.

Dear John, you need to read the hadiths, and other auhtentic material on arabic in order to understand islam correct. Surely a muslim can copy and paste quran versers that includes things like love etc, and the person with no knowledge will fall for their hypocrite.
But when you open the hadiths, and compare them with versers and chapters in the quran you will realise that ISIS, Al qaeda, boko haram etc are those who are the real muslims.
Watch the video by david wood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXBgqa-xQwY


I know.  The Hadiths are, IMO a weakness in the Islamic narrative.  They say the Quran is so simple and so obvious, yet you need the Hadiths to interpret it.  The problem is that no one can agree on which Hadiths are accurate.  Furthermore, they are themselves not perfect.  So they are left with a "perfectly inspired" book which relies on an imperfect collection of texts.  Seems counter-intuitive to me, though perhaps not all Muslims believe this way.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 06:48:47 PM by john_mo »
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Offline Syriac.Aramaic

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #677 on: December 21, 2014, 09:15:28 AM »
Dear John, I'm with you regarding what you are saying. To the public people who is not muslims, other muslims and imams are good at explaining how rich their faith is, and how easy it is to understand islam. But when you study the religion, you will clearly see that it isn't as simple as they say.
No disrespect to muslim people here on the forum, but when you study their religion, and yourself have good knowledge of christianty you will pretty soon realise how bad, poor and empty their religion is.
A former muslim friend to me, who converted to orthodoxy in my parish said once this to me after he got baptised; "You christians should be happier with the religion you have, because its the real way to god, i which every person could see how rich this faith is and how correct it is".

« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 09:16:48 AM by Syriac.Aramaic »
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #678 on: December 21, 2014, 11:15:06 AM »
We're living in crazy times, and hopefully with this thread we can have a better understanding.

So feel free to ask me anything you want about Islam, I'll try to answer it to the best of my knowledge.

Thanks very much

Why you guys killing so much?
and
can you come up with a peaceful way to end that soon?
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #679 on: December 21, 2014, 11:21:39 AM »
Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

The Brits and French did a great job of that after WWI when they created nation-states at keeping at odds with the various tribes of the area, all to get oil.
Had they followed Lawrence of Arabia's map, most likely the conflict now would have been avoided.
Mark 14:36
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #680 on: December 21, 2014, 12:34:36 PM »
Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

The Brits and French did a great job of that after WWI when they created nation-states at keeping at odds with the various tribes of the area, all to get oil.
Had they followed Lawrence of Arabia's map, most likely the conflict now would have been avoided.

We're talking about today's conflicts. But before the 19th century, you cannot say it was the Brits and the French.
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #681 on: December 21, 2014, 01:40:03 PM »
Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

The Brits and French did a great job of that after WWI when they created nation-states at keeping at odds with the various tribes of the area, all to get oil.
Had they followed Lawrence of Arabia's map, most likely the conflict now would have been avoided.

We're talking about today's conflicts. But before the 19th century, you cannot say it was the Brits and the French.

I did not know the issue was limited to the 19th century.
As little as I know about the Ottoman, anyone can say anything and I would believe him.
For example I heard/read that it was a great civilization/empire that ruled about as average as any empire did, but then how would one compare? The notions of personhood were/are much different than the influence of Christian Europe where slavery became anathema or in America where religion was relegated to the people and separated from the state. It would be like comparing apples to zebras, no?
Mark 14:36
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #682 on: December 21, 2014, 01:44:25 PM »
Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

The Brits and French did a great job of that after WWI when they created nation-states at keeping at odds with the various tribes of the area, all to get oil.
Had they followed Lawrence of Arabia's map, most likely the conflict now would have been avoided.

We're talking about today's conflicts. But before the 19th century, you cannot say it was the Brits and the French.

I did not know the issue was limited to the 19th century.
As little as I know about the Ottoman, anyone can say anything and I would believe him.
For example I heard/read that it was a great civilization/empire that ruled about as average as any empire did, but then how would one compare? The notions of personhood were/are much different than the influence of Christian Europe where slavery became anathema or in America where religion was relegated to the people and separated from the state. It would be like comparing apples to zebras, no?

Yes, if we were comparing. If we're talking about the historical crimes of the Islamic empires throughout history, then we have to be honest and say it was horrendous.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 01:44:37 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)

Offline vorgos

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #683 on: December 21, 2014, 02:49:49 PM »
Here are a couple of related questions that occurred to me the other day.

Ignoring the concepts of Trinity, Jesus as God-Man and his resurrection, what about Islam as a religion would you say is better than Orthodoxy when it is practised as preached by the New Testament?

What does it offer to an individual over say, the Jewish religion which also does not accept these concepts?

Thanks.

PS: I apologise if they've already been covered. I couldn't make myself (re)read 16 pages of this thread :(

Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #684 on: December 21, 2014, 06:25:07 PM »
Is there room for doctrinal development, varying interpretation, and disagreement within Islam? Most Muslims I've met seem to adhere to a worldview of "Divine Command Theory" like fundamental Protestants where morality is determined simply because God said so, and thus, there is no room for hermeneutics, context, or moral development such as abolitionism. I've met Protestant "Divine Command" theorists who've said that if they found modern day Midianites for example, they'd have to genocide them because God's command makes it okay. And they seem to present their religion in such a way where if you don't agree with the basest, most literal interpretation that they provide, then you can't belong to that religion. There's no room for disagreement or doctrinal breathing room. Muslims seem the same way with the no intermarriage thing and no abolitionism and all.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 06:29:21 PM by JamesR »
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline fibonacci

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #685 on: December 22, 2014, 01:48:28 AM »
....
But when you open the hadiths, and compare them with versers and chapters in the quran you will realise that ISIS, Al qaeda, boko haram etc are those who are the real muslims.
....

These groups do NOT seem to be followers of Ahlul Bayt.

Offline fibonacci

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #686 on: December 22, 2014, 02:07:43 AM »
I know.  The Hadiths are, IMO a weakness in the Islamic narrative.  They say the Quran is so simple and so obvious, yet you need the Hadiths to interpret it.  The problem is that no one can agree on which Hadiths are accurate.  Furthermore, they are themselves not perfect.  So they are left with a "perfectly inspired" book which relies on an imperfect collection of texts.  Seems counter-intuitive to me, though perhaps not all Muslims believe this way.

Prophet Muhammad (sawa) has been recorded many times to say...

"O People! Indeed, I have left among you, that which if you hold fast to it, you shall not go astray: The Book of Allah (Quran) and my Family, the People of my House (Ahlul-Bait)."

The specifics of the Quran is with the members of Ahlul Bayt.

Offline fibonacci

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #687 on: December 22, 2014, 02:18:20 AM »
No disrespect to muslim people here on the forum, but when you study their religion, and yourself have good knowledge of christianty you will pretty soon realise how bad, poor and empty their religion is.

Have you studied the story of Imam Hussein(AS)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAEkO8R7nhk

« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 02:18:33 AM by fibonacci »

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #688 on: December 22, 2014, 02:19:07 AM »
I know.  The Hadiths are, IMO a weakness in the Islamic narrative.  They say the Quran is so simple and so obvious, yet you need the Hadiths to interpret it.  The problem is that no one can agree on which Hadiths are accurate.  Furthermore, they are themselves not perfect.  So they are left with a "perfectly inspired" book which relies on an imperfect collection of texts.  Seems counter-intuitive to me, though perhaps not all Muslims believe this way.

Prophet Muhammad (sawa) has been recorded many times to say...

"O People! Indeed, I have left among you, that which if you hold fast to it, you shall not go astray: The Book of Allah (Quran) and my Family, the People of my House (Ahlul-Bait)."

The specifics of the Quran is with the members of Ahlul Bayt.

Who would you say the modern-day "Ahlul Bayt" is/are? The Nizari Ismaili would consider the Aga Khans to be the Ahlul Bayt, for instance. Who do you think they are? The quote you give is interesting because it is similar to what many Christians (including the Orthodox) believe about Apostolic Succession.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 02:19:33 AM by Minnesotan »

Offline fibonacci

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #689 on: December 22, 2014, 03:00:50 AM »
Why you guys killing so much?
and
can you come up with a peaceful way to end that soon?

By your question I assume you meant, why there are so much conflicts ....

A covenant is a contract, and there are clauses to it....

http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/28.htm

"...The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young...." - Deuteronomy 28:49-50

Offline fibonacci

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #690 on: December 22, 2014, 03:55:20 AM »
Here are a couple of related questions that occurred to me the other day.

Ignoring the concepts of Trinity, Jesus as God-Man and his resurrection, what about Islam as a religion would you say is better than Orthodoxy when it is practised as preached by the New Testament?

What does it offer to an individual over say, the Jewish religion which also does not accept these concepts?

Thanks.

PS: I apologise if they've already been covered. I couldn't make myself (re)read 16 pages of this thread :(

True followers of the Jewish religion, have love for Moses and so there connection may lead to Moses to intercede on their behalf for judgement day.

Similarly, true followers of the Christian religion, have love for both Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus and so there is a chance that their connection may have either of the two prophets to intercede on their behalf for judgement day.

Finally, true followers of the Islamic religion, have love for Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammad and so there is a chance for any of these three prophets to intercede on their behalf on judgement day.


Offline Syriac.Aramaic

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #691 on: December 22, 2014, 04:04:21 AM »
....
But when you open the hadiths, and compare them with versers and chapters in the quran you will realise that ISIS, Al qaeda, boko haram etc are those who are the real muslims.
....

These groups do NOT seem to be followers of Ahlul Bayt.

are you a follower of ahlul bayt by shia or  sunni?
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #692 on: December 22, 2014, 07:17:12 AM »
-How does intermarriage between Sunnis and Shias work? I've always found it bizarre that intermarriage with Jews and Christians is allowed for Muslims but intermarriage with other Muslim sects seems to be either prohibited or strongly discouraged.

-Is tobacco consumption allowed in Islam? If so, what type of cigars do you think Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed would prefer to smoke?

-What sources do you use to learn the teachings of Moses and Jesus? If you use the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, then how can you simultaneously say that these sources have been corrupted?

-Can Muslims celebrate Christmas even if they don't believe in the Divinity of Christ? Can they at least celebrate it as the birth of a prophet?

-What happens to gay people in Islam? Do they have to marry women like everyone else, even if they don't feel sexually attracted to women? Or can they stay celibate forever? Or are they automatically doomed to Hell either way just for being gay?

-Is there a such thing as Guardian Angels or Guardian Jinns in Islam?
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #693 on: December 22, 2014, 08:33:57 AM »
Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

The Brits and French did a great job of that after WWI when they created nation-states at keeping at odds with the various tribes of the area, all to get oil.
Had they followed Lawrence of Arabia's map, most likely the conflict now would have been avoided.

We're talking about today's conflicts. But before the 19th century, you cannot say it was the Brits and the French.

I did not know the issue was limited to the 19th century.
As little as I know about the Ottoman, anyone can say anything and I would believe him.
For example I heard/read that it was a great civilization/empire that ruled about as average as any empire did, but then how would one compare? The notions of personhood were/are much different than the influence of Christian Europe where slavery became anathema or in America where religion was relegated to the people and separated from the state. It would be like comparing apples to zebras, no?

Yes, if we were comparing. If we're talking about the historical crimes of the Islamic empires throughout history, then we have to be honest and say it was horrendous.

And yet the horrendous activities continue, now as well as "then".
Again, out of ignorance, as I have been told, their founder was a fighter and warrior, and the Muslim ethos towards "those other than  (my) Moslem" is more than fierce, as my current news indicates.
There is no getting around that fact.
And from that hatred flows. There is little wrong in consenting adults killing one another....it is when innocents are mandated to die, especially for a way-of-life as being Moslem is.
Orthodoxy too is a way of life and with it a call to be free in God. I don't find that elsewhere, and by their deeds certainly not by way of Mohammedans.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 08:35:04 AM by LenInSebastopol »
Mark 14:36
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #694 on: December 22, 2014, 09:04:28 AM »
Why you guys killing so much?
and
can you come up with a peaceful way to end that soon?

By your question I assume you meant, why there are so much conflicts ....

A covenant is a contract, and there are clauses to it....

http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/28.htm

"...The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young...." - Deuteronomy 28:49-50

The word translated now is "nation" when actually another more correct translation is "race", as the contract was made with Father Abraham "and his seed". There were no "nations" at that time.
There cannot be a more racial aspect than that. Your race is via Ishmael and his 12 sons, true?
Therefore only those from Abraham's seed, have such a covenant and therefor can kill outside your race, true?
Then all outside your race can and should suffer genocide, true?
So, how can Indonesians or tribes from Africa be Muslim? Or even Americans, however we are not a race but a peoples and in spite of what appears to be our internal troubles, are racially excluded, true?
Nice race/religion there, very similar to the Zionists. So Muslims are half-brothers with Zionist, right? Or cousins, no?
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline john_mo

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #695 on: December 22, 2014, 05:33:53 PM »
My goodness... I feel sorry for fibonacci.  Please keep in mind that he's the only Muslim posting here (at least on this thread) and he has to answer dozens of questions each time.

I was hoping to have more of a relaxed dialog with him, but I don't think that's going to happen.  I'll be away now for Christmas so won't be able to post much.

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #696 on: December 22, 2014, 05:58:28 PM »
My goodness... I feel sorry for fibonacci.  Please keep in mind that he's the only Muslim posting here (at least on this thread) and he has to answer dozens of questions each time.

I was hoping to have more of a relaxed dialog with him, but I don't think that's going to happen.  I'll be away now for Christmas so won't be able to post much.


lol, we can barely be relaxed with each other much less with someone outside of Orthodoxy!
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #697 on: December 22, 2014, 06:09:59 PM »
As violent, backward, sexually depraved, and disturbing as Islam is, I still respect that backward spirit more than I respect the passive spirit of Orthodoxy. Islam sanctions evil, yes, but Orthodoxy teaches her followers to sit back like victims and to accept whatever comes their way. It enables evil to thrive and prosper, and it empowers the evil by telling us we have a Divine duty to forgive and submit to them or else God will punish us. I have more respect for an explicitly violent and evil person or ideology than I do for a passive, spineless one that enables evil while still trying to maintain a moral high ground.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline john_mo

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #698 on: December 22, 2014, 06:17:34 PM »
My goodness... I feel sorry for fibonacci.  Please keep in mind that he's the only Muslim posting here (at least on this thread) and he has to answer dozens of questions each time.

I was hoping to have more of a relaxed dialog with him, but I don't think that's going to happen.  I'll be away now for Christmas so won't be able to post much.


lol, we can barely be relaxed with each other much less with someone outside of Orthodoxy!

A girl can dream, can't she?
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #699 on: December 22, 2014, 06:24:23 PM »
As violent, backward, sexually depraved, and disturbing as Islam is, I still respect that backward spirit more than I respect the passive spirit of Orthodoxy. Islam sanctions evil, yes, but Orthodoxy teaches her followers to sit back like victims and to accept whatever comes their way. It enables evil to thrive and prosper, and it empowers the evil by telling us we have a Divine duty to forgive and submit to them or else God will punish us. I have more respect for an explicitly violent and evil person or ideology than I do for a passive, spineless one that enables evil while still trying to maintain a moral high ground.



The Lord of Glory, or, according to JamesR, a wimp. 
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Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #700 on: December 22, 2014, 07:39:04 PM »
As violent, backward, sexually depraved, and disturbing as Islam is, I still respect that backward spirit more than I respect the passive spirit of Orthodoxy. Islam sanctions evil, yes, but Orthodoxy teaches her followers to sit back like victims and to accept whatever comes their way. It enables evil to thrive and prosper, and it empowers the evil by telling us we have a Divine duty to forgive and submit to them or else God will punish us. I have more respect for an explicitly violent and evil person or ideology than I do for a passive, spineless one that enables evil while still trying to maintain a moral high ground.



The Lord of Glory, or, according to JamesR, a wimp. 

I can't say I blame the Jews for rejecting their savior and being disappointed. When you're stuck in a world of poop you'd want a true leader who would fix your problems and lead you to glory opposed to a pacifist on a donkey willingly enduring death and telling you that you have to wait until the end of the world for anything good to finally happen.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #701 on: December 22, 2014, 07:50:16 PM »
Reading your words makes me wince.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #702 on: December 22, 2014, 10:59:30 PM »
-How does intermarriage between Sunnis and Shias work? I've always found it bizarre that intermarriage with Jews and Christians is allowed for Muslims but intermarriage with other Muslim sects seems to be either prohibited or strongly discouraged.

-Is tobacco consumption allowed in Islam? If so, what type of cigars do you think Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed would prefer to smoke?

-What sources do you use to learn the teachings of Moses and Jesus? If you use the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, then how can you simultaneously say that these sources have been corrupted?

-Can Muslims celebrate Christmas even if they don't believe in the Divinity of Christ? Can they at least celebrate it as the birth of a prophet?

-What happens to gay people in Islam? Do they have to marry women like everyone else, even if they don't feel sexually attracted to women? Or can they stay celibate forever? Or are they automatically doomed to Hell either way just for being gay?

-Is there a such thing as Guardian Angels or Guardian Jinns in Islam?

1. Happened a lot in Iraq. I don't know the specifics.

2. No, under the same logic that suicide in Islam is forbidden. Surah an-Nisa 4:29 "don't destroy yourselves" also means not harming the body in any way.

3. The Qur'an and to a far lesser extent, the Hadith.

4. Christmas is forbidden among all practicing sects.

5. They're doomed.

6. No.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 11:01:22 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #703 on: December 22, 2014, 11:28:38 PM »
As violent, backward, sexually depraved, and disturbing as Islam is, I still respect that backward spirit more than I respect the passive spirit of Orthodoxy. Islam sanctions evil, yes, but Orthodoxy teaches her followers to sit back like victims and to accept whatever comes their way. It enables evil to thrive and prosper, and it empowers the evil by telling us we have a Divine duty to forgive and submit to them or else God will punish us. I have more respect for an explicitly violent and evil person or ideology than I do for a passive, spineless one that enables evil while still trying to maintain a moral high ground.



The Lord of Glory, or, according to JamesR, a wimp. 

I can't say I blame the Jews for rejecting their savior and being disappointed. When you're stuck in a world of poop you'd want a true leader who would fix your problems and lead you to glory opposed to a pacifist on a donkey willingly enduring death and telling you that you have to wait until the end of the world for anything good to finally happen.

So do you regret your cross tattoo yet?
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Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #704 on: December 23, 2014, 01:29:44 AM »
-Can Muslims celebrate Christmas even if they don't believe in the Divinity of Christ? Can they at least celebrate it as the birth of a prophet?
4. Christmas is forbidden among all practicing sects.

4b. The Alawites (the sect Bashar Assad is part of) celebrate Christmas if I'm not mistaken. However, Alawites are an offshoot of Shiism and are not considered "real" Muslims by many Sunnis. They are commonly called "Little Christians" in Syria, sometimes as a term of endearment, but probably more often as a pejorative. They do other Christian-influenced stuff, too, and some of their practices are kept secret from outsiders (like Druze and Scientologists). They are one of the few non-Christian religions to believe in the Trinity. They also believe in reincarnation and some other Neoplatonist things, too.

Also, many atheists and Jews in the United States do enjoy the purely secular trimmings that are associated with Christmas over here, despite the fact that the latter are technically forbidden by halakha from doing so. I have anecdotal evidence to suggest that some Muslims might, too, and/or make up their own tradition even if it's purely ironic (e. g., the common Jewish tradition of going to a Chinese restaurant for Christmas). What they don't do is celebrate it as a religious holiday, so you are correct. American Muslims don't always follow the rules and that's probably a good thing. It makes them less likely to radicalize (although that does still happen).

Offline jewish voice

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #705 on: December 23, 2014, 04:16:57 AM »
Please keep on topic people I'm enjoying this thread. There are many  other threads on here to debate James on his Christian ideas.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #706 on: December 24, 2014, 10:05:29 AM »
Reading your words makes me wince.

When I come across the truth, I too wince
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #707 on: December 24, 2014, 10:13:29 AM »
As violent, backward, sexually depraved, and disturbing as Islam is, I still respect that backward spirit more than I respect the passive spirit of Orthodoxy. Islam sanctions evil, yes, but Orthodoxy teaches her followers to sit back like victims and to accept whatever comes their way. It enables evil to thrive and prosper, and it empowers the evil by telling us we have a Divine duty to forgive and submit to them or else God will punish us. I have more respect for an explicitly violent and evil person or ideology than I do for a passive, spineless one that enables evil while still trying to maintain a moral high ground.



The Lord of Glory, or, according to JamesR, a wimp. 

It is only He that could do all of that, and though He IS help for us, He needs our help to keep Him alive in this world. As for the rest of us who must continue to live in this world and cannot totally abide the sins of others, there are obligations and duties unseen by many of those who wish to stay asleep while others man the watch towers.
Lord, have mercy and help us.
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #708 on: December 24, 2014, 10:15:50 AM »
My goodness... I feel sorry for fibonacci.  Please keep in mind that he's the only Muslim posting here (at least on this thread) and he has to answer dozens of questions each time.

I was hoping to have more of a relaxed dialog with him, but I don't think that's going to happen.  I'll be away now for Christmas so won't be able to post much.

You are right.....he needs our prayers both for stepping up and into the lions den, and to see the Only True Light for and of this world.
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #709 on: December 24, 2014, 02:33:44 PM »
Thread seems instead to consist of "Feel free, everybody, to freely opine on anything about Islam." Gosh, OC.net.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #710 on: December 24, 2014, 06:21:41 PM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #711 on: December 24, 2014, 10:19:53 PM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?
By initiating it.


sorry, low blow.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #712 on: December 24, 2014, 11:01:05 PM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?

The Islamic view is that generally, God causes suffering to those who don't obey his law. Therefore, proper obedience to the law of God will alleviate suffering while disobeying it will cause suffering.

When the flood in Pakistan happened, this is one of the reasons that Muslim countries didn't help out all that much. They're just sinners who're getting divine justice for abandoning God's law.

Here's al-islam.org.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 11:07:13 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #713 on: December 25, 2014, 12:07:38 AM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?

The Islamic view is that generally, God causes suffering to those who don't obey his law. Therefore, proper obedience to the law of God will alleviate suffering while disobeying it will cause suffering.

Interesting, because I know that it isn't just Muslims who say things like that. Every time there is a natural disaster in the United States, there's some televangelist who blames it on either 1. gays, 2. liberalism, 3. no prayer in public schools, or 4. American support of the two-state solution.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 12:08:20 AM by Minnesotan »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #714 on: December 25, 2014, 12:16:39 AM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?

The Islamic view is that generally, God causes suffering to those who don't obey his law. Therefore, proper obedience to the law of God will alleviate suffering while disobeying it will cause suffering.

Interesting, because I know that it isn't just Muslims who say things like that. Every time there is a natural disaster in the United States, there's some televangelist who blames it on either 1. gays, 2. liberalism, 3. no prayer in public schools, or 4. American support of the two-state solution.

Morals is so much more comfortable when it's for other people.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline jewish voice

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #715 on: December 25, 2014, 03:50:21 AM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?
Islam answers that in two ways. First is predestined by Allah. That is to say everything is a test good and bad. If Allah blesses you what do you do with it. If Allah causes you to suffer what do you do in your suffering.
2nd is all the prophets before hand were tested in their faith and they where better than we are. Mixed with Allah makes those who he loves suffer the most. Suffering is a good thing as long as. You keep your prayers and Allah first in your life draws one closer to him
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 03:54:21 AM by jewish voice »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #716 on: December 25, 2014, 04:08:51 AM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?
Islam answers that in two ways. First is predestined by Allah. That is to say everything is a test good and bad. If Allah blesses you what do you do with it. If Allah causes you to suffer what do you do in your suffering.
2nd is all the prophets before hand were tested in their faith and they where better than we are. Mixed with Allah makes those who he loves suffer the most. Suffering is a good thing as long as. You keep your prayers and Allah first in your life draws one closer to him

Nice to hear someone knowledgeable respond!
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...
« Reply #717 on: February 08, 2015, 12:07:29 AM »
How does Islam answer the problem of suffering?

The Islamic view is that generally, God causes suffering to those who don't obey his law. Therefore, proper obedience to the law of God will alleviate suffering while disobeying it will cause suffering.

Interesting, because I know that it isn't just Muslims who say things like that. Every time there is a natural disaster in the United States, there's some televangelist who blames it on either 1. gays, 2. liberalism, 3. no prayer in public schools, or 4. American support of the two-state solution.

No argument here.

Anyway, I have been coming across Paul of Antioch quite frequently in my reading of Orthodox responses to Islamic claims. Ibn Taymiyya, the forerunner to modern Salafism, responded to his Letter to a Muslim Friend and Letter from the People of Cyprus however, I cannot find the letter to which Ibn Taymiyya responded.

Does anyone know where I can read Paul of Antioch's polemics against Islam?
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)