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Author Topic: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...  (Read 27627 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #315 on: January 09, 2013, 08:22:50 AM »


Also Muslims do not agree with the concept of 'Eretz Yisrael' that modern day edomites are striving for.

Why do Muslims curse Israel in their slogans? Isn't Israel also the second name of a great religious figure (Jacob) that is considered a prophet by the author of the Qur'an? Besides, in the Qur'an the name Israel appears only as Jacob's other name (Surah 19:58). Isn't the use of this name in a curse overt blasphemy? If the nation of Israel had the name Abraham, would Muslims likewise curse Abraham?

Not sure where to start...

All I have to say is this, the antichrist (dajjal), edomites (gog&magog) and their allied demons (jinns) thrive off of wars, chaos, economic disasters, especially in regions where people are very religious, innocent, pious, ...etc.

This is why today, we see so much conflicts in ME (jewish, muslim, christian areas), why very religious christian nations like Greece, Ireland, ...etc, and other European countries are struggling with a painful financial disaster because of the usury that the edomite bankers have imposed on them.

Do you see the big picture?

Instead of coming here and arguing about trivial misunderstandings, we should really work together and point out the chaos and mischief that the antichrist is throwing at us.  Zionist Israel is kind of like a huge military base for the Antichrist and his followers.... so this is why a lot of Muslims are upset about their presence in the ME, and they go protest and express their feelings in the way you mentioned.
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« Reply #316 on: January 09, 2013, 08:29:04 AM »

But, you just played with semantics. "Mentally different" can mean "Mentally unequal" in some cases, when either is smarter than the other. It can also mean, as you pointed out that men and women excel in different tasks. However, "mentally unequal" by itself has only one connotation, a difference in degree, where one must be inferior to the other. In context, it means that women are inferior to men.

Carl....

I'm sorry I didn't use the right terminology, because words often fail me.  I think in pictures/analogies (right brain) not in words/semantics (left brain).

All I will say on this topic is that....

Men and Women play different roles in society, and they compliment each other.... like the Sun and the Moon  (they compliment one another).
The Men are the fathers, and the Women are the mothers.  Simple as that.  No one's inferior to no one else, we're all spiritually equal to our Creator.

I don't know how much more I can elaborate on this topic.
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« Reply #317 on: January 09, 2013, 08:40:09 AM »

Not such a stretch as you might think. I just did a Bing search on "British Sharia" and got returned 5,500,000+ hits about the FACT that in Britain court cases involving Muslim communities my be adjudicated within Sharia courts outside the usual British system.

Look not all Muslims agree with the concept of imposing Sharia on everybody who's not muslim-- like what's happening in Egypt where there is a large christian population.


Please don't be confused by what some wahabbi Muslims are preaching..... there are plenty of Muslims who recognize the beliefs of people of other faiths (including atheists) and therefore would not demand sharia law to be imposed on them.

The only reason why some britsh muslims want sharia law in Britian is for the court to recognize their beliefs and judge in accordance to Islam, when a conflict happens between Muslims.... not between a Muslim and a non-Muslim.  The latter case, the courts will simply judge with the common law that brits are familiar with.


So in general the sharia law they're asking doesn't affect you, unless you're a Muslim going to court with another Muslim and both ask for the judging to be done in accordance to quranic laws.


As an example, there are unfortunately times where Muslim families have to divorce.  In Islam, the man takes care of the kids and mother doesn't pay any child support.  In common western law, the women takes care of the kids and the father has to pay child support.   So this is a situation where Muslims want judging to be done in terms of sharia.
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« Reply #318 on: January 09, 2013, 08:49:50 AM »

can you be a suffi, without changing your christian faith, or denying your baptism?

Well Suffi pretty much means spiritual.... so you can definitely be a spiritual christian

but if you want to be a sufi muslim..

you don't really have to go through baptism

you simply have to recognize that there is one Creator, and prophets like Jesus and Mohammed are his prophets and messengers  (Shahada)

it's simple as that....


I suggest you read the whole Quran first and then go with whatever intuition you get from that point onwards.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 08:52:14 AM by fibonacci » Logged
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« Reply #319 on: January 09, 2013, 08:55:52 AM »

I am highly skeptical about this. I admit, I am no expert on Islam and probably less qualified to speak on it than you are, but from what I have observed and studied, it seems like Islam contains a lot of "loopholes" in regards to sexual morality. For example, allowing sexual relations between you and your slaves and captives, and requiring something like four or more adult men to WITNESS the act of intercourse at the same time in order to convict a man for rape.

James, very early in this thread I addressed the rulings on rape.... did you read my earlier posts?

Did you also finish reading the whole quran?


Finally the 4 witness ruling, is for sins like public adultery or public fornication.  Rape doesn't fall in this category.
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« Reply #320 on: January 09, 2013, 09:09:08 AM »

...when the mongols took over, it's obviously a different political system that disregarded human rights.

I think you may be mistaken on this. The Mongols actually had quite a bit respect for human rights that--at the time--would put to shame most other empires of the world. The Mongols at the time were the only civilization I am aware of which truly allowed religious freedom, whereas Shariah allows discrimination against non-Muslim religions. The Mongols on the other hand treated all religions equally and pretty much stayed out of your life provided you paid them their tax. As for their violent system of war, it was essentially the same model that the Romans used.

you're bringing up issues that isn't really relevant to my post


first of all, as I said earlier, shariah is simply a moral code that ONLY Muslims abide to..... it's not suppose to be a series of laws imposed on non-Muslims!!!!  Do you understand what I'm saying?   Just because western-backed Wahhabi organization like MB in Egypt are doing the opposite thing and imposing sharia on Christians, doesn't mean it's the Islamic thing to do.  What they're doing is WRONG.  It's deception.  It's the work of the anti-christ!!

One last time, please don't come to the conclusion that when sharia is implemented into law that it is automatically imposed on non-Muslim.


Now about the mongols, you may think that Genghis Khan and his men ran a very friendly empire.... but a lot of historians don't agree with your premise.  I suggest you read other history books from that time period aswell  -- particularly those from Iranian sources.
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« Reply #321 on: January 09, 2013, 09:39:22 AM »

Not such a stretch as you might think. I just did a Bing search on "British Sharia" and got returned 5,500,000+ hits about the FACT that in Britain court cases involving Muslim communities my be adjudicated within Sharia courts outside the usual British system.

Look not all Muslims agree with the concept of imposing Sharia on everybody who's not muslim-- like what's happening in Egypt where there is a large christian population.


Please don't be confused by what some wahabbi Muslims are preaching..... there are plenty of Muslims who recognize the beliefs of people of other faiths (including atheists) and therefore would not demand sharia law to be imposed on them.

The only reason why some britsh muslims want sharia law in Britian is for the court to recognize their beliefs and judge in accordance to Islam, when a conflict happens between Muslims.... not between a Muslim and a non-Muslim.  The latter case, the courts will simply judge with the common law that brits are familiar with.


So in general the sharia law they're asking doesn't affect you, unless you're a Muslim going to court with another Muslim and both ask for the judging to be done in accordance to quranic laws.


As an example, there are unfortunately times where Muslim families have to divorce.  In Islam, the man takes care of the kids and mother doesn't pay any child support.  In common western law, the women takes care of the kids and the father has to pay child support.   So this is a situation where Muslims want judging to be done in terms of sharia.

I assure you I am not confused about what is transpiring in England. Point is, Sharia IS now employed in Britain. I do not care if AT THIS TIME it is only in cases between Muslims.
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« Reply #322 on: January 09, 2013, 09:42:26 AM »

Hi folks

Been a few months since I was here.  Hopefully I can respond to some of your replies.

If you say that the Edomites succeeded in corrupting Judaism, this means that now ALL Jews think, believe, and worship like Edomites.  Grin

Who are the Edomites anyway? I cannot see a reference to them in the Qur'an? Why is that? Why did the author of the Qur'an make no reference even to Esau, Jacob's twin brother?

I'm surprised you haven't heard about Edomites.  I believe in bible studies, they're referred to as the 'red jews'.

A lot of jews know about them, and know they're an open enemy to their religion-- http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Edomites.html

Alot of christian sites claim that it was the edomites that crucified Jesus -- http://divinepageant.com/indictment_of_edom.htm


In the quran they're referred to as the people of Gog and Magog (yajooj and majooj).  One particular surah is, surah Al-Kahf which talks about how they were corrupt and carried out mischief. 


If you ever wondered why the Zionists are lusting for a war with Iran, it's because of a religious prophecy they're obsessed about-- http://choshvei.blogspot.ca/2006/03/gemara-on-war-between-edom-and-persia.html .

They believe that such a war will accelerate the emergence of their long-awaited messiah (which from Islam's and Orthodox Christianity's point of view, will be the antichrist, a leader in eretz yisrael who trys to impersonates the messiah).


 

How interesting!

Care to educate us about the Twelfth Imam - the Mahdi?
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« Reply #323 on: January 09, 2013, 03:56:40 PM »

Do you believe we worship the same god? Do you believe that righteous individuals from the people of the book can go to Jannah?

+Thanks
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« Reply #324 on: January 09, 2013, 04:28:31 PM »

Is there anything Sacramental about Islam at all? Even the Jews had the Passover which was Sacramental, but I don't see anything like that in Islam.
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« Reply #325 on: January 09, 2013, 04:51:06 PM »

Why do Muslims deny the crucfixion and resurrection?..
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« Reply #326 on: January 09, 2013, 05:25:01 PM »


I'm surprised you haven't heard about Edomites.  I believe in bible studies, they're referred to as the 'red jews'.

I know about the Edomites. You have not answered my question yet though! What does the Qur'an say about them? Does the word Edom or Edomite occur in Islamic scripture?

A lot of jews know about them, and know they're an open enemy to their religion-- http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Edomites.html

Alot of christian sites claim that it was the edomites that crucified Jesus -- http://divinepageant.com/indictment_of_edom.htm


That's just a claim. I am not interested in such theories though.

In the quran they're referred to as the people of Gog and Magog (yajooj and majooj).  One particular surah is, surah Al-Kahf which talks about how they were corrupt and carried out mischief. 

Are you sure? The Qur'an does talk about Gog and Magog, but says nothing about the Edomites. Can you give Surah and verse number for the Quranic reference to the group of Edomites?

If you ever wondered why the Zionists are lusting for a war with Iran, it's because of a religious prophecy they're obsessed about-- http://choshvei.blogspot.ca/2006/03/gemara-on-war-between-edom-and-persia.html .

They believe that such a war will accelerate the emergence of their long-awaited messiah (which from Islam's and Orthodox Christianity's point of view, will be the antichrist, a leader in eretz yisrael who trys to impersonates the messiah).

Zionists are trying to protect themselves against a state that aims to destroy them.

The Qur'anic author seems ignorant of the meaning of the term "Christ". The term "anti-Christ", on the other hand, does not exist in the Qur'an.


 
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« Reply #327 on: January 09, 2013, 05:26:29 PM »

Why do Muslims deny the crucfixion and resurrection?..

Only because Muhammad considered the tenet of Jesus' death a stumbling block for his ideology and because he was heavily influenced by anti-Jewish Gnostic teachings.  Grin
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« Reply #328 on: January 09, 2013, 05:41:55 PM »


Look I'm not sure what point you're making.....

That Jesus' promise is still valid and it's impossible to alter God's words. Your scripture also holds the same doctrine (Surah 18:27, Surah 10:94, Surah 6:34), but you disregard such verses because the so-called validity of your scripture depends on the supposed corruption of the Bible. You think that there would be no need for the Qur'an if the Bible remained authentic. This is why you bring up the allegations of biblical corruption.

but the truths that were revealed to mankind come in many different formats and in different books... it's the same truths whether it's from prophet Jesus or prophet Mohammed!  Saying you deny what Mohammed and the quran says, is like saying you deny the truths revealed from God.  

Well, this is circular reasoning. I do not believe that Muhammad was given a book from above. That means what he proclaimed was not true.

You see, the original bible had a lot of truths in it, talked about God's law, and how humans should behave if they want to reach a higher state where they can understand the secrets of the universe, questions like why we're here and what's our purpose,...etc.

Where is that original Bible then? If you claim that it was altered and lost, you must come with your evidence. Bring the so-called original text if you are telling the truth.

Now overtime that original text of that bible was lost...

Again no evidence! This is just a baseless assertion. I could go ahead and make a similar accusation. I could even claim that no one named Muhammad lived in history and even the name is a fabrication.

although the old testament always talked about the 1 God and His way and His prophets, it had some flaws, where it said some sinful things about the prophets.  That prophet Noah was an alcoholic and managed to create the arc in such a state!!! Prophet Lut committed very bad sins with his daughters!!! And Prophet David murdered someone so he can get away with an adulterous relation!!!  

Where is written in the Qur'an that all prophets were and had to be sinless. Cite the Surah and verse please.

The Qur'an also teaches that David sinned and asked for forgiveness. (Surah 38:21-25)

The Bible does not say that Lot was a messenger/prophet. The Qur'an does. Yet the same Qur'an also teaches that Lot offered his daughters to the townsfolk when they came to rape his guests. How can a prophet do such a thing?

Obv these stories are not true.  The quran was sent down to fix this problem.  It contains many of the same stories about prophets, but made it clear that prophets of God don't commit such bad sins.  I suggest you read both the whole bible (not just a few passages), then read the whole quran.

The Qur'an was not sent or revealed because there was/is no problem with those teachings. Since the Bible is the the true word of God, the Qur'an is false and we do not need it. The Qur'an is actually a false and cheap copy of the Bible.

I have already read the Qur'an. I am an ex-Muslim!  Cheesy
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« Reply #329 on: January 09, 2013, 05:44:02 PM »


Not sure where to start...

All I have to say is this, the antichrist (dajjal), edomites (gog&magog) and their allied demons (jinns) thrive off of wars, chaos, economic disasters, especially in regions where people are very religious, innocent, pious, ...etc.

This is why today, we see so much conflicts in ME (jewish, muslim, christian areas), why very religious christian nations like Greece, Ireland, ...etc, and other European countries are struggling with a painful financial disaster because of the usury that the edomite bankers have imposed on them.

Do you see the big picture?

Instead of coming here and arguing about trivial misunderstandings, we should really work together and point out the chaos and mischief that the antichrist is throwing at us.  Zionist Israel is kind of like a huge military base for the Antichrist and his followers.... so this is why a lot of Muslims are upset about their presence in the ME, and they go protest and express their feelings in the way you mentioned.

Instead of begging the question, why don't you answer my simple questions about the Qur'an? Why the need to attack the Jews and Zionists and talk about politics in order to evade my questions and defend the Qur'an?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #330 on: January 10, 2013, 09:40:18 AM »

How are demons exorcised in Islam ?. Do they use the help of a Senior Jinn and quranic verses ?
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« Reply #331 on: January 10, 2013, 12:27:03 PM »

How are demons exorcised in Islam ?. Do they use the help of a Senior Jinn and quranic verses ?

Quote
An Interview with a Muslim Exorcist
....
Q. Do jinn possess believing Muslims who are conscientious in their religious practices?

A. This only happens to those of weak faith. The jinn have no power over the true believers. The Almighty said:

“You will have no authority over My servants, except those among the misguided who follow you.”

“He (i.e., Satan) said, ‘By your power, I will surely mislead them all, except Your sincere, chosen servants.’”

The true believers and sincere worshippers of Allaah are protected by Him, so the devils cannot possess them. On the other hand, the devils play with worshippers of Satan who disobey Allaah in the same way that children pray football.
....
Q. How do you explain a Christian priest’s successful exorcism of patients?

A. The non-Muslim in this field works with the jinn. The jinn may ease the pain for a week or months in order that the patient put his trust in the disbelieving healer. If he were a Muslim patient, his faith would be lost. For only the Qur’aan is the word of Allaah and only it can heal the spirit.
I think this Muslim exorcist is saying that a non-Muslim exorcist and the jinn work together in order to convince the patient that the non-Muslim exorcist is a real exorcist, whereas what is really going on is that the jinn merely eases the pain for a short period of time, to make it seem as if the non-Muslim exorcist can actually exorcise the jinn. The non-Muslim exorcist and the jinn are in cahoots.
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« Reply #332 on: January 10, 2013, 12:35:03 PM »

Genesis 1:26: Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in His own image,
    in the image of God He created them;
    male and female He created them.

Only Christianity can be True.
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« Reply #333 on: January 10, 2013, 12:43:37 PM »

Oh dear, he found the Islam topic...
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« Reply #334 on: January 10, 2013, 02:00:46 PM »

Genesis 1:26: Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in His own image,
    in the image of God He created them;
    male and female He created them.

Only Christianity can be True.

I fale to see how this proves that Christianity is true.
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« Reply #335 on: January 10, 2013, 03:02:27 PM »

Genesis 1:26: Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in His own image,
    in the image of God He created them;
    male and female He created them.

Only Christianity can be True.

I fale to see how this proves that Christianity is true.

He's going to get a shock when he looks at the Koran and sees Allah referred to in the plural.
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« Reply #336 on: January 10, 2013, 03:09:06 PM »

Is there anything Sacramental about Islam at all? Even the Jews had the Passover which was Sacramental, but I don't see anything like that in Islam.

What exactly do you mean by sacramental? The word sacrament has several definitions, most of them being tied to Christianity. According to Wikipedia, it means: a sacred rite recognized as of particular importance and significance. So i'm going to go with that definition to answer your question.

Muslims have many "sacraments" if you will, such as: Khitan/Circumcision, Nikah/Marriage, Hajj/Pilgrimage to Mekkah, Janazah Salah/Funeral, the daily recitation of the Shahada/Profession of Faith, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islaam.

In terms of feasts/celebrations, the Mohammedans celebrate many "feasts", if you will, on the Islamic Calendar (Ramadan, Eid al-Fitr, Eid al-Adha, Saint's days, etc.)

If your referring to rituals, there are several rituals found in Islamic practices and even more rituals in Shia and Sufi sects. There's a lot of ritual washing/ablutions that take place at many different times, ritual slaughter of animals for food, rituals found in Salah (the formal worship practice of Muslims), occasional ritual use of incense, many distinct and at many times, weird practices from the Sufis and Shia sects.  
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« Reply #337 on: January 10, 2013, 03:44:28 PM »

Genesis 1:26: Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in His own image,
    in the image of God He created them;
    male and female He created them.

Only Christianity can be True.

I fale to see how this proves that Christianity is true.

He's going to get a shock when he looks at the Koran and sees Allah referred to in the plural.

I didn't know that, I must admit. Why is Allah plural?
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« Reply #338 on: January 10, 2013, 03:48:50 PM »

Genesis 1:26: Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in His own image,
    in the image of God He created them;
    male and female He created them.

Only Christianity can be True.

I fale to see how this proves that Christianity is true.

He's going to get a shock when he looks at the Koran and sees Allah referred to in the plural.

I didn't know that, I must admit. Why is Allah plural?
Lots of theories, some of them similar to the theories explaining why God ("Elohim") in Genesis 1 is plural.
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« Reply #339 on: January 10, 2013, 04:16:09 PM »

How come Islam is so iconoclastic? I watched an episode of Southpark the other day that was making fun of Family Guy and the Islamic prophet Muhammed was on the show, but his appearance was censored out because the network thought it would be offensive to air.
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« Reply #340 on: January 10, 2013, 04:24:26 PM »

How come Islam is so iconoclastic? I watched an episode of Southpark the other day that was making fun of Family Guy and the Islamic prophet Muhammed was on the show, but his appearance was censored out because the network thought it would be offensive to air.

In 1999, Islamic art expert Wijdan Ali wrote a scholarly overview of the Muslim tradition of depicting Mohammed.... In that essay, Ali demonstrates that the prohibition against depicting Mohammed did not arise until as late as the 16th or 17th century, despite the media's recent false claims that it has always been forbidden for Muslims to draw Mohammed. Until comparatively recently in Islamic history, it was perfectly common to show Mohammed, either in full (as revealed on this page), or with his face hidden (as shown on the next page). Even after the 17th century, up to modern times, Islamic depictions of Mohammed (especially in Shi'ite areas) continued to be produced.
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« Reply #341 on: January 10, 2013, 08:53:05 PM »

How are demons exorcised in Islam ?. Do they use the help of a Senior Jinn and quranic verses ?

Quote
An Interview with a Muslim Exorcist
....
Q. Do jinn possess believing Muslims who are conscientious in their religious practices?

A. This only happens to those of weak faith. The jinn have no power over the true believers. The Almighty said:

“You will have no authority over My servants, except those among the misguided who follow you.”

“He (i.e., Satan) said, ‘By your power, I will surely mislead them all, except Your sincere, chosen servants.’”

The true believers and sincere worshippers of Allaah are protected by Him, so the devils cannot possess them. On the other hand, the devils play with worshippers of Satan who disobey Allaah in the same way that children pray football.
....
Q. How do you explain a Christian priest’s successful exorcism of patients?

A. The non-Muslim in this field works with the jinn. The jinn may ease the pain for a week or months in order that the patient put his trust in the disbelieving healer. If he were a Muslim patient, his faith would be lost. For only the Qur’aan is the word of Allaah and only it can heal the spirit.
I think this Muslim exorcist is saying that a non-Muslim exorcist and the jinn work together in order to convince the patient that the non-Muslim exorcist is a real exorcist, whereas what is really going on is that the jinn merely eases the pain for a short period of time, to make it seem as if the non-Muslim exorcist can actually exorcise the jinn. The non-Muslim exorcist and the jinn are in cahoots.

I've heard otherwise from Muslims who use converted Jinns to accomplish a task for the person who uses them and even exorcise other Jinns who posses people.

He mentions the priests and the demon are working together, which is of course is not true. At times a demon will flee when a possesed person is approaching to take the Holy Eucharest.

By reading that article he bases his certainty on the truth of Islam because of the power of exorcising demons From Islamic accordance ?. Even the non-Abrahamic religions can exorcise evil spirits, so tht makes them true also.
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« Reply #342 on: January 10, 2013, 10:27:41 PM »

WHY do muslims say that we are going to hell?
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« Reply #343 on: January 10, 2013, 10:31:49 PM »

WHY do muslims say that we are going to hell?

Cause the Quran says so, but is it figuratively as our Orthodox understanding of it or is it literally ?
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« Reply #344 on: January 10, 2013, 10:33:23 PM »

WHY do muslims say that we are going to hell?
I'm pretty sure most Muslims don't.

IIRC, the Quran is positive towards "People of the Book" on topics such as these.

However, it can be argued (as it sometimes is) that Trinitarian Christians don't actually fall within "People of the Book."
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« Reply #345 on: January 10, 2013, 10:42:14 PM »

WHY do muslims say that we are going to hell?
I'm pretty sure most Muslims don't.

IIRC, the Quran is positive towards "People of the Book" on topics such as these.

However, it can be argued (as it sometimes is) that Trinitarian Christians don't actually fall within "People of the Book."

who are the people of the book? and what is this book?
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« Reply #346 on: January 10, 2013, 10:44:47 PM »

who are the people of the book? and what is this book?

The People of the Book is one way the Quran refers to Jews and Christians, who were preceeding receivers of revelation (the Book) from God. This stands in contrast to pagans.
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« Reply #347 on: January 11, 2013, 01:40:18 PM »

How come Islam is so iconoclastic? I watched an episode of Southpark the other day that was making fun of Family Guy and the Islamic prophet Muhammed was on the show, but his appearance was censored out because the network thought it would be offensive to air.

In 1999, Islamic art expert Wijdan Ali wrote a scholarly overview of the Muslim tradition of depicting Mohammed.... In that essay, Ali demonstrates that the prohibition against depicting Mohammed did not arise until as late as the 16th or 17th century, despite the media's recent false claims that it has always been forbidden for Muslims to draw Mohammed. Until comparatively recently in Islamic history, it was perfectly common to show Mohammed, either in full (as revealed on this page), or with his face hidden (as shown on the next page). Even after the 17th century, up to modern times, Islamic depictions of Mohammed (especially in Shi'ite areas) continued to be produced.

Jetavan,

Thank you for playing whack-a-mole on this stuff.
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« Reply #348 on: January 11, 2013, 01:44:31 PM »

WHY do muslims say that we are going to hell?
I'm pretty sure most Muslims don't.

IIRC, the Quran is positive towards "People of the Book" on topics such as these.

However, it can be argued (as it sometimes is) that Trinitarian Christians don't actually fall within "People of the Book."

Actually, if you get into more than a cursory look at the tradition of Islamic philosophy and theology, you will find that in the end it ends up sorta like most orthodox Christian apologetics:

Only Moslems will enter Paradise. It is not clear who all Moslems are, so be careful in your judgments about those who you think are not.

I don't have the time nor care to source, I am sure this is easily found by merely googling.

So the whole this isn't the teaching of Islam is often correct. And this should be well understood by Orthodox Christians, at least on this board, who are constantly arguing that prevailing ideas within Christendom are not "true" and often that what many Orthodox do and think is "wrong".
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« Reply #349 on: January 11, 2013, 01:52:30 PM »

Why can't the Abrahamic religions be cool, modern and peaceful like Buddhism?
Yeah, it's not like they had a bunch of heresies and had to have emperors convene ecumenical councils or anything. They just sat around, chilling out while huffing Darjeeling and listening to the sound of one Wall bricking.
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« Reply #350 on: January 11, 2013, 09:06:03 PM »

Dear Muslim person,

If there were truly "no compulsion in religion" (ie. Islam) as the Qu'ran says, why does the Qu'ran also enjoin muslims to punish apostasy with death?  Surprisingly the Qu'ran also claims there is no contradiction in the Qu'ran and that Allah is the "Most Merciful" - but commanding muslims to kill apostates contradicts both the Qu'ran's claim to be consistent and the supposed 'mercy' of Allah.

It was Shaytan that gave Muhammad nothing but lies to foment the endless 'holy wars' by and for which he enlists his 'slaves' and for no other reason !  It is the satanic lust for war that makes Islam simply oozing with fear and force whereas true Christianity is full of forgiveness and forbearance - the goodness of the real God and His love for mankind.  The muslim's Allah is just Shaytan, the jihad junkie, in drag! so don't tell me about "the lesser and greater jihad"... it's all submitting yourselves and anyone else you can force by the sword to the feet of Shaytan from where you can never then dare to move for fear of being physically killed by your 'brothers' on the direct order of their "Most Merciful" Shaytan !  May the sweet mercy of Christ find your poor beleaguered souls and save you from that tormented and wasted life.

A muslim apologist offering to "answer questions" about Islam in a Christian forum is like a drug dealer offering free samples in a schoolyard... good grief...  why should the sulfurous smell of Islam even be allowed in here?  We must all love the sinner but who says we need to give their sin a space to grow in our garden?  
                                                          
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« Reply #351 on: January 11, 2013, 09:25:17 PM »

Dear Muslim person,

If there were truly "no compulsion in religion" (ie. Islam) as the Qu'ran says, why does the Qu'ran also enjoin muslims to punish apostasy with death?
Surah, verse?
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« Reply #352 on: January 11, 2013, 10:19:27 PM »

WHY do muslims say that we are going to hell?

Because the threat of Hell is associated with "their way of thinking" ...
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« Reply #353 on: January 11, 2013, 10:46:35 PM »

Dear Muslim person,

If there were truly "no compulsion in religion" (ie. Islam) as the Qu'ran says, why does the Qu'ran also enjoin muslims to punish apostasy with death?
Surah, verse?

I apologize for overstating the specificity of the Qu'ranic penalty for apostasy. I was misled by other zealous Christian commentary against it.  However, all 4 major schools of Islamic jurisprudence unanimously agree the penalty for apostasy IS death and I think it's fair to assume that all the major schools of Islamic jurisprudence certainly DO understand what the intent of the Qu'ran is regarding apostasy.  Here's a summary of their positions from a book called "The Penalties for Apostasy in Islam" by 'Abdurrahmani'l-Djaziri

Quote
[...]
Muslim scholars (imams) have said: Apostasy must be determined by the testimony of two upright adult witnesses whose accounts agree. When a judge asks how the Muslim fell from the faith, the witness must say, "He says such and such or does such and such."

All four imams (the founders of the four schools of Islamic law) -- may Allah have mercy upon them -- agree that the apostate whose fall from Islam is beyond doubt -- may Allah forbid it -- must be killed, and his blood must be spilled without reservation. The hypocrite and heretic (zindiq) who poses as a Muslim but has secretly remained an unbeliever must also be killed.

2. Calling the Apostate to Repentance

The Hanafites: When the Muslim falls away from Islam -- may Allah forbid it! -- he is first asked to return. If he has doubts, he is to express them; one can then clear up his doubts, for it may be that he truly has questions with regard to the faith -- questions in need of explanation. By this it is possible to deal with his evil deed (sharr) through the best of two possibilities: death or the acceptance of Islam. However, it remains desirable to offer him the acceptance of Islam again, although this is not obligatory, because the message had already been offered him once.

If he needs time to reconsider, it is desirable that the judge allow him a three-day extension, during which he is to remain in custody. If he accepts Islam thereafter, it is good; if not, he is to be killed, for Allah says to "kill those who believe in many gods" (Sura al-Tawba 9:5), without fixing a deadline. The Prophet also said, "Kill him who changes his religion," without mentioning a delay, because the apostate is surely a hostile unbeliever and no asylum seeker (musta'min) who has asked for protection; furthermore, he is no dhimmi (a non-Muslim under Islamic rule), for no poll tax is demanded of him. Therefore, he should be killed without reservation.

The Hanafites are of the opinion that it does not matter whether the apostate is a freeman or a slave.

The Shafi´ites: If a Muslim becomes apostate -- Allah forbid! -- the imam should grant him three days' grace; he is not to be killed before this period expires, for the apostasy of a Muslim from his faith often results from his confusion. Therefore a grace period is necessary, so that he can reflect, and that the truth can become clear to him again. We, the Shafi´ites, have determined that this time should consist of three days, whether he asks for it or not.

It has been told about our master, Umar b. al-Khattab -- may Allah be pleased with him -- that a man was sent to him by Abu Mosa al-Ashaari. Umar asked him: "Do you have any good news?"; the man said, "Yes, a man apostatised from Islam, so we killed him." Umar said: "Did you first take him into custody for three days, giving him one loaf per day, so that he may repent? O Allah -- you are a witness -- I was not there, neither did I give any orders, nor did I concede to that action." This story was mentioned by Malek the imam in his book, Al-Muwattu, to the effect that Umar disapproved of what they did. Thus, one can conclude from this event that an apostate must be given a three-day time limit before he is put to death.

If the apostate repents, or utters the two main articles of faith (al-shahadatain), or confesses faith in the oneness of Allah (monotheism), he will be released. But if he does not repent, he is to be killed by the sword immediately. This punishment cannot be evaded, because apostasy is the most atrocious and severe form of blasphemy, and it deserves the cruellest judgement, which invalidates all of a Muslim's previous deeds. Allah says: "And for those among you who allow themselves to be led astray from their religion, and who die as unbelievers, their works are invalid now and in eternity" (Sura al-Baqara 2:217). If the apostate returns to Islam, he need not repeat the pilgrimage which had been performed before the apostasy. This is unlike the Hanafites who said: If the apostate repents, he must repeat the pilgrimage, because his apostasy has nullified it.

The Malikites: The imam should grant the apostate three days and nights -- beginning with the day on which his apostasy was committed, and not with the day of his unbelief or the day upon which the accusation was brought against him. The three days of confinement are to follow in succession, and the day on which the apostasy was proven should not be considered as part of the time limit, if it was preceded by dawn. During his confinement, he is to be given food and drink, which are to be paid out of his assets, while his wife and children are not being cared for by his assets. If he has no assets, he is to be cared for by the public treasury or House of Property (bait ulmal), whether he promises to repent or not. He is not to be beaten in prison, even if he persists in his apostasy. He is surely to be given many chances to repent within this time-limit, in order to prevent bloodshed or punishment resulting from doubts. This should clear up his doubts and give him time to reconsider, so that he may change his mind and repent. If the judge decides on his death before the end of this grace period, his decision is legally binding, because he has ruled on a disputed issue. If he repents after three days, he is to be released; but if he does not, he is to be killed on the third day, at sunset. His corpse is to be neither washed nor embalmed. He is to be buried neither in the cemeteries of the Muslims nor of the unbelievers (kuffar), for he is not one of them, having once been a Muslim. In fact, his body is to be thrown upon the ground as a public example.

The Hanbalites: There are two opinions on this issue. Some believe that the apostate should be given a period for repentance consisting of three days, while others are of the opinion that he is to be granted no time for reconsideration but should only be offered Islam. If he accepts the offer, he is to be set free; if not, he is to be put to death immediately.

This is no joke nor is it a baseless accusation.  Anyone who is flirting with Islam should know up front what every informed muslim in the world understands about apostasy regardless what an apologist might say in a forum like this.  If some individual imagines death is not required for apostasy from Islam, it hardly matters if 1 billion other muslims think your blood should be "shed without reservation".
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« Reply #354 on: January 11, 2013, 10:56:18 PM »

How come Islam is so iconoclastic? I watched an episode of Southpark the other day that was making fun of Family Guy and the Islamic prophet Muhammed was on the show, but his appearance was censored out because the network thought it would be offensive to air.

In 1999, Islamic art expert Wijdan Ali wrote a scholarly overview of the Muslim tradition of depicting Mohammed.... In that essay, Ali demonstrates that the prohibition against depicting Mohammed did not arise until as late as the 16th or 17th century, despite the media's recent false claims that it has always been forbidden for Muslims to draw Mohammed. Until comparatively recently in Islamic history, it was perfectly common to show Mohammed, either in full (as revealed on this page), or with his face hidden (as shown on the next page). Even after the 17th century, up to modern times, Islamic depictions of Mohammed (especially in Shi'ite areas) continued to be produced.

I'm pretty sure that if he was depicted in South Park, it was for the wrong intentions and it was meant to be disrespectful lol. So that could the reason of the censoring. It is the orthodox tradition of Muslims not the make depictions of Allah/God or the Prophets. Whether or not this was always the practice, is a different story as there are many example of Persian and Islamic miniatures and art depicting the Prophets but never of God such as...

This one depicting Maryam and Isa (The Theotokos with Our Lord), notice the striking similarities with Christian iconography:


This one depicting depicting the birth of Muhammad, again there is striking similarity with Orthodox Christian iconography:
http://www.lacma.org/khan/4/images/6pu2.jpg]http://www.lacma.org/khan/4/images/6pu2.jpg]http://www.lacma.org/khan/4/images/6pu2.jpg

This one depicting Muhammad and the Archangel Jibra'il (Gabriel):


This one depicting the Prophet Ibrahim' s (Abraham) sacrifice:




 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 10:58:25 PM by Cantor Krishnich » Logged

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« Reply #355 on: January 30, 2013, 05:37:30 AM »

Hi again folks,  I'm back, and lord willing I can answer a few more questions!


How interesting!

Care to educate us about the Twelfth Imam - the Mahdi?

Well Imam Mahdi is something majority of Muslims believe in (shias/sufis/sunnis...etc).

He's an individual that lord willing, will come at the right time to lead the world out of chaos and deception caused by the antichrist (dajjal).  He'll reveal the truths about our universe.  He'll be alongside the Messiah, as Jesus will defeat the antichrist.

Many eastern religions have talked about him... a savior that will come and remove all forms of tyranny and oppression-- then install justice and peaceful equality around the world.

Zoroastrian religion have Saoshyant  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant
Hindu religion have Kalki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki
Buddhism religion have Maitreya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya

Maybe at a latter time, we can start a new thread and talk about Eschatology in both Islam and Christianity.  I'll try to find good resource on this topic to share with you.

Just remember in Islam we believe that Dajjal starts it's wars against mankind spiritually, with the help of jinns.  Then in it's final stages of it's agenda (ruling the whole world by manipulating the cultural norms of all societies) he'll come in a physical form (will have one eye, and only people who are pious and have spiritual discernment will recognize he's the antichrist/dajjal).

At the same time, imam Mahdi will be fighting this creature... he'll fight him spiritually (with maybe the help of armies of angles and/or jinns), he'll fight physically (when the time is right). 

In the end we believe that good will defeat evil, so Imam Mahdi and Jesus will win at the end of the day and the some important divine truths about our universe will be revealed.
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« Reply #356 on: January 30, 2013, 05:50:43 AM »

Is islam a violent religion? What is Jihad? Tell us something about the worship(pillars?) in Islam. What is the deal with Mecca?
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« Reply #357 on: January 30, 2013, 05:57:42 AM »

Do you believe we worship the same god? Do you believe that righteous individuals from the people of the book can go to Jannah?

+Thanks

To a degree yes.  I believe that Creator in Islam is the same Creator worshiped by Unitarian/nontrinitarian Christians.  Among the Trinitarian Christians, the 'father' is the same creator that muslims believe.  But the 'holy ghost' and the ' son' are something we don't agree with in terms of the Creator.


In terms of righteous individuals from other religions can go to Heaven... Yes indeed!

I believe even those from atheist/pagan background have the opportunity to go to heaven so long as...

they're open minded and question everything
they do good deeds (acts that doesn't negatively affect the heart/body)
they follow their intuition and pay attention to important patterns in life
repent for all the sins done in the past

As I said before, the Creator will put plenty of signs and signals to help you find the real truths about our universe.  The further you are from divine truths, the more truths that will come your way (via books, events, people that show up in your life, ...etc.). It's up to you to pay attention and accept these signs and do more research/reading/writing about that subject.  If you just dismiss these signs and say it's just a coincidence... then you don't really believe in an ordered universe created by the Lord.

Now in terms of the people of the book.... you have bibles and a strong moral code that you abide by.  You have an extra 'advantage'.  Now it's just a matter of study your religion as in depth as possible.... read the whole bible, read other bibles, ...etc.  Then read about other religions.  Keep doing this until you find the truth.  Your heart will know what the truth is.
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« Reply #358 on: January 30, 2013, 06:03:27 AM »

Why do Muslims deny the crucfixion and resurrection?..

lol... we don't deny crucifixion!!!

we just don't agree that Jesus died on the cross....we believe that it was made to appear that he died

my opinion and what other muslims believe as well is that the Creator allowed him to go into a state of deep sleep (hibernation) when the crucifixion happened
so he didn't feel any pain or die...

but when the time is right, Jesus will wake up from this hibernating and come out in the world and prove to everyone once and for all he's the real messiah....and the antichrist (the world leader) is a fraud
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« Reply #359 on: January 30, 2013, 06:14:13 AM »

Why do Muslims deny the crucfixion and resurrection?..

lol... we don't deny crucifixion!!!

we just don't agree that Jesus died on the cross....we believe that it was made to appear that he died

my opinion and what other muslims believe as well is that the Creator allowed him to go into a state of deep sleep (hibernation) when the crucifixion happened
so he didn't feel any pain or die...

but when the time is right, Jesus will wake up from this hibernating and come out in the world and prove to everyone once and for all he's the real messiah....and the antichrist (the world leader) is a fraud

Lol. I thought u guys thought Judas was made to look like Jesus and he died on the Cross instead of Him, or something like that.
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