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Author Topic: Feel free to ask me anything about Islam...  (Read 29681 times) Average Rating: 0
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dzheremi
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« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2012, 04:46:04 PM »

I didn't know any of us had any to lose, but yeah, the characterization of medieval Europe as "the Dark Ages" is really a misnomer.
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« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2012, 04:53:35 PM »

the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages
Did it?

Persecuted Galileo for scientific development, impoverished Europe from the Crusades called upon by the Pope etc...
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Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
Eastern Mind
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« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2012, 05:07:49 PM »

Peace be with you,

An honest question, and I mean no offense by it at all. But, why does the Quran condone striking a woman, and why does it say she is "below" the man? Should women not be loved and cherished?
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« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2012, 05:23:37 PM »

the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages
Did it?

Persecuted Galileo for scientific development, impoverished Europe from the Crusades called upon by the Pope etc...

*sigh*
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« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2012, 05:27:33 PM »

Galileo lived in the Renaissance, not the "Dark" Ages. Also, the Crusades were in every sense defensive wars. The first one, in fact, was called at the request of the Byzantine Emperor, whose Orthodox lands were being overrun by Moslems, pursuing the same aggressive, expansionary policy they had pursued from the time of their Prophet.
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« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2012, 06:11:11 PM »

Is there any distinction made in Islam between martyrdom (willingly being killed for the sake of your faith) and suicide (willingly killing yourself)? I ask because I know that some Muslims like to refer to suicide bombings as "martyrdom operations" or by similar terms, but that's quite different than how Christianity views martyrdom, so I'm curious if it is just a misuse of the word "martyr" or if anytime a Muslim dies in an action perceived to be done for his faith he is actually considered a martyr.
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« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2012, 06:19:29 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

you sound like a very nice person...like most of the muslams i have known in my life.
when i sit and think of it, i have known and been good friends with many Muslims, never really thought abt it.
all were very likable people, some more then others.
and then i listen to the news and see (have u seen the recent decapitation of a Christian using an little knife to saw off his head, while he is alive and praying!!!) and hear all the crazy things that are done by muslams in the name of Islam/Alah.
How can anyone say anything good abt them when you see what they are doing.
the two just doesent gel, wha the heck is going on!

If Christians were doing the things the Muslims are doing to Christians, only to Muslims, i would say...you know what, i think this Christianity thing is full of sh8t, and reevaluate if Christianity is truly the correct religion i want to be a part of.



You are warned for 30 days for violating the rule on using obscenities, profanities, etc... on the public forums (see the bolded word in your post above. I am quoting the rule for you and for the benefit of all others as as reminder. If you disagree with this decision, please send me a PM. Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 08:53:32 PM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2012, 06:22:41 PM »

Quote
In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians

Peace be with you,

But why then does the Koran say that Muslims are not to take Jews and Christians as friends?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 06:22:54 PM by Eastern Mind » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2012, 07:21:51 PM »

These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education

How do you reconcile this belief with the fact that the conclusions of sociologists who have studied the socioeconomic and educational level of terrorists points to them often being more educated and economically stable than the average person in their societies? From the linked article:

Quote
Claude Berrebi of the RAND Corporation compared the characteristics of suicide-bombers recruited by Hamas and Islamic Jihad from the West Bank and Gaza with those of the general adult male Palestinian population. Nearly 60% of suicide-bombers had more than a high-school education, compared with less than 15% of the general population. They were less than half as likely to come from an impoverished family as an average adult man from the general population.

The rules of this message board limit how much text can be quoted from an article, but elsewhere in this paragraph the author notes that Berrebi did a similar study in Shi'a-dominated southern Lebanon and found the same results: The terrorists from that area were more educated and less likely to come from poor families than the surrounding (majority) population who are not terrorists.

Well, I was referring to an individual who becomes a radical.

In terms of the leaders of various groups, gangs, organizations...etc., that you mentioned.... it's important to studying them at a deeper level and their origins.   Groups like Hamas was originally created and funded by Israel and supported by US in the 80s.... the media won't say this, unfortunately.  The other group, AQ was funded and supported by US, so yes these are wealthy groups, because they do the dirty work.....they do the terrible acts to satisfy certain political agendas for western nations.

The people that joins these groups, however, are the ones that come from impoverished and uneducated families.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2012, 07:41:50 PM »

I'm confused and discouraged by your answer, Fibonacci. Did you read the article? It is not about the leaders or histories of terrorist groups, but about individuals who decide to commit terrorism, and it shows that those individuals are likely to be richer and more educated than the general populace, not poorer or less educated.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 07:42:12 PM by dzheremi » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2012, 08:00:17 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

you sound like a very nice person...like most of the muslams i have known in my life.
when i sit and think of it, i have known and been good friends with many Muslims, never really thought abt it.
all were very likable people, some more then others.
and then i listen to the news and see (have u seen the recent decapitation of a Christian using an little knife to saw off his head, while he is alive and praying!!!) and hear all the crazy things that are done by muslams in the name of Islam/Alah.
How can anyone say anything good abt them when you see what they are doing.
the two just doesent gel, wha the heck is going on!

If Christians were doing the things the Muslims are doing to Christians, only to Muslims, i would say...you know what, i think this Christianity thing is full of sh8t, and reevaluate if Christianity is truly the correct religion i want to be a part of.




Christians have and continue to do those same things to muslims, would you like to know how many Muslims were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

How many were killed in the crusades?

Iraqi Civilians alone 108,000-118,000.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 08:04:36 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

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« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2012, 08:16:12 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

you sound like a very nice person...like most of the muslams i have known in my life.
when i sit and think of it, i have known and been good friends with many Muslims, never really thought abt it.
all were very likable people, some more then others.
and then i listen to the news and see (have u seen the recent decapitation of a Christian using an little knife to saw off his head, while he is alive and praying!!!) and hear all the crazy things that are done by muslams in the name of Islam/Alah.
How can anyone say anything good abt them when you see what they are doing.
the two just doesent gel, wha the heck is going on!

If Christians were doing the things the Muslims are doing to Christians, only to Muslims, i would say...you know what, i think this Christianity thing is full of sh8t, and reevaluate if Christianity is truly the correct religion i want to be a part of.




Christians have and continue to do those same things to muslims, would you like to know how many Muslims were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

How many were killed in the crusades?

Iraqi Civilians alone 108,000-118,000.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War



i would like to know how many Christians recently beheaded someone for there religious beliefs, with a rusty little knife while he was awake and praying. could u you tell me please.

i would also like yo to tell me how many Christians recently put a girl with down syndrome in jail for using pages from the Koran to make a fire to make a meal.

i would also like you to tell me how many Christians recently attacked a various mos ks and killed the worshipers there, on a regular basis.

i would also like you to tell me how many Christians recently hijacked airplanes and killed thousands of innocent people by flying them into bldgs, just because they were American.

i would also like yo to tell me how many Christians recently attacked various embassy's around the world killing people.

i would also like yo to tell me how many Christians recently are causing chaos around the world with violent protests against an stupid "MOVIE" some moron made making fun of Alla.

i would also like you to tell me how many Christians recently strap bombs on themselves and try to kill as many people as possible in order to go to heaven.

got more questions but that should keep yo busy for now.
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Nikolaostheservant
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« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2012, 08:21:20 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

you sound like a very nice person...like most of the muslams i have known in my life.
when i sit and think of it, i have known and been good friends with many Muslims, never really thought abt it.
all were very likable people, some more then others.
and then i listen to the news and see (have u seen the recent decapitation of a Christian using an little knife to saw off his head, while he is alive and praying!!!) and hear all the crazy things that are done by muslams in the name of Islam/Alah.
How can anyone say anything good abt them when you see what they are doing.
the two just doesent gel, wha the heck is going on!

If Christians were doing the things the Muslims are doing to Christians, only to Muslims, i would say...you know what, i think this Christianity thing is full of sh8t, and reevaluate if Christianity is truly the correct religion i want to be a part of.




Christians have and continue to do those same things to muslims, would you like to know how many Muslims were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

How many were killed in the crusades?

Iraqi Civilians alone 108,000-118,000.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War



and why do u suppose that is. did we just wake up one day and say i think we should start an war in iraq?

and dont bring up history we are talking today not the crusades, wich we ORTHODOX were not a part of!



OMG, you are Greek Orthodox! Go ask you yia yia abt the turkish ocupation of greece and how it was?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 08:23:57 PM by Nikolaostheservant » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2012, 08:32:34 PM »

the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages
Did it?

Persecuted Galileo for scientific development, impoverished Europe from the Crusades called upon by the Pope etc...

The Galileo affair was more complicated than that and his years were 1564-1642 which is quite later that the post-Roman Empire and Medieval eras.  It wasn't a matter of scientific development per se. There was a scientific society in Rome, the Lyncian Academy, into which Galileo was inducted in 1611 and it was not opposed by the RC hierarchy.  http://galileo.rice.edu/gal/lincei.html

Part of the problem was Galileo himself who was, shall we say, not one to suffer disagreement with his ideas lightly.  Sometimes this meant that he irritated powerful people and sometimes he was wrong.  His work The Assayer has a good bit of vitriol aimed at those who did not agree with his ideas or he did not agree iwth theirs.  Some of it is quite sarcastic, in fact.  And on the point of what comets are Galileo maintains that they are tricks of light while the other astronomer-mathemetician, Orazio Grassi, (who was also a Jesuit) held that they are real objects.  While Galileo was right on much in this he was wrong.  
Here are links to an English translation of The Assayer

www.stanford.edu/~jsabol/certainty/.../Galileo-Assayer.pdf

And to the Galileo Project at Rice
http://galileo.rice.edu/index.html

Ebor
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2012, 08:40:55 PM »

You are acting as though Christians are good, remember Christ said only God is good.Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is ...
... "Only God is truly good. .... ... No one is good, but only God. ...
//bible.cc/luke/18-19.htm - 15k



And it matters not about who it is , they are all Gods people, he loves them all.Loving Thy Neighbor
... Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as
yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these. ...
//topicalbible.org/l/loving_thy_neighbor.htm - 14k


Matthew 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those ...
But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, .... ...

There have been just as many atrocities in the name of christianity. And even the Angels in heaven will not accuse them who do those things.


2 Peter 2:11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more ...
yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous
accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. ...


And the most important is that you are praising yourself wrongly.The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed abouta himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”


« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 08:45:59 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

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« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2012, 08:43:06 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

Really?  You think so?
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« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2012, 08:43:26 PM »

Why is it written in the Qur'an that Jesus' mother Mary was the daughter of Amram (Surah 3:35, Surah 66:12) and sister of Aaron (Surah 19:28)? Isn't it obvious that the author of the Qur'an accidentally assimilated the Miriam of the Old Testament (Daughter of Amram in 1 Chronicles 6:3; Sister of Aaron in Exodus 15:20) to Jesus' mother Miriam?

This is a very interesting point, and I'm going to do some more studying on it....

but remember, these surahs are poetic, and typically, these poems reveal many different stories, all of which are valid
you just have to read them from different perspectives... to get the point

now if you're reading these verses, thinking about Mary the mother of Jesus, Amram is mentioned because she's from that linage..... most likely her father's last name was Amram

in the second case, Surah 19:28, it's clearly a play-on-word, if you read it carefully...... a man from her community was criticizing her for having Jesus, and telling her how surprised he was, that someone who comes from a very religious family, who's name is the same as Mariam, the sister of Aaron, why she would have such "a baby out of wedlock".
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« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2012, 08:46:31 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

you sound like a very nice person...like most of the muslams i have known in my life.
when i sit and think of it, i have known and been good friends with many Muslims, never really thought abt it.
all were very likable people, some more then others.
and then i listen to the news and see (have u seen the recent decapitation of a Christian using an little knife to saw off his head, while he is alive and praying!!!) and hear all the crazy things that are done by muslams in the name of Islam/Alah.
How can anyone say anything good abt them when you see what they are doing.
the two just doesent gel, wha the heck is going on!

If Christians were doing the things the Muslims are doing to Christians, only to Muslims, i would say...you know what, i think this Christianity thing is full of sh8t, and reevaluate if Christianity is truly the correct religion i want to be a part of.




Christians have and continue to do those same things to muslims, would you like to know how many Muslims were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

How many were killed in the crusades?

Iraqi Civilians alone 108,000-118,000.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
It must be a comfortable position to Monday morning quarterback war when you obviously know nothing about it.
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Kerdy
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« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2012, 08:50:25 PM »

You are acting as though Christians are good, remember Christ said only God is good.Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is ...
... "Only God is truly good. .... ... No one is good, but only God. ...
//bible.cc/luke/18-19.htm - 15k



And it matters not about who it is , they are all Gods people, he loves them all.Loving Thy Neighbor
... Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as
yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these. ...
//topicalbible.org/l/loving_thy_neighbor.htm - 14k


Matthew 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those ...
But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, .... ...

There have been just as many atrocities in the name of christianity. And even the Angels in heaven will not accuse them who do those things.


2 Peter 2:11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more ...
yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous
accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. ...


And the most important is that you are praising yourself wrongly.The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed abouta himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”



We are acting like you toss accusations for entertainment without being able to accurately support them, because they are false.
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Nikolaostheservant
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« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2012, 09:02:30 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

Really?  You think so?

I wish!
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fibonacci
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« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2012, 09:03:50 PM »

Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

If you're referring to the secular individuals today, who claim to be Muslims, and carrying out not-so-islamic acts.... then yes.

But in the early years of the religion, when Europe was struggling with wars, Islam was at the forefront of human endeavors (science, math, philosophy, ...etc.).  A lot of inventions and discoveries were revealed in the Islamic region during the golden age:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

All this creativity came to an end, when people lost their spiritual ways, and didn't pay attention to their faith.... especially in regards to economic and political decisions.  Today, we're seeing the culmination of centuries of ignorance, where certain nations, that claim to be Muslim, impose an unislamic  (haram) financial system on the true muslim people...that's based on the principles of usury... thereby depriving them to enter an entrepreneurial or creative endeavor to help humanity..... and those that have wealth, unfortunately participate in the construction of tall building, big houses, ...etc.... distorting the market for raw materials, and misallocating capital towards superficial wishes.
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« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2012, 09:05:47 PM »

Ok, you invited the questions. i will try to be as polite as i can.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.
 
how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration.  As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal".  Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately.  So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not.  These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury).  As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.


Quote
What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp.  That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

I suggest you watch this movie... to see what kind of conflicts the prophet was going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlQ4Wxw5ky4

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture.  Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.



Quote
Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions.
plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone.  Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews.  Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common.  Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism.  So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.


 
i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

Really?  You think so?

I wish!
Me too, but we both know it won't happen.  Even if Christianity and Islam became best of friends, the rest of the world would not adhere to peaceful courses of action.
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« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2012, 09:08:17 PM »

Do Shi'a have the same belief regarding the eternality and uncreated nature of the Qur'an that the Sunnis apparently have? An acquaintance of mine who converted to Sunni Islam (apparently from some kind of Christianity, though I don't know exactly what) explained it to me once that the Qur'an is preserved since time immemorial in heaven on some kind of tablet, as are "uncorrupted"/original versions of the Torah and the Christian NT (in keeping with the mainstream Islamic view that these have been corrupted). I thought that was pretty interesting, but I don't really understand how it's supposed to work.  

Shia's do agree that the Qur'an is not corrupted... and there are many reasons why.  For one, it's in a poetic format, so it's easier to memorize.  So when these verses were revealed to the prophet, he would enunciate it out stanza by stanza (ie. verse by verse), so everyone was able to memorize it-- some would later go and write down the verse .  Later, when all the surahs (poems) were revealed, the early muslims compiled all these poems into one book--- which was the first quran.  This first quran is still around and that's why we believe it's not corrupted.

Can you tell us the location of this document please?  Also, in No God But God by Reza Aslan (p.125-126 in my paperback edition) writes that when when the Quran was written down as the various persons who had memorized it traveled to other areas small "mostly insignificant differences reflecting the local and cultural affinities of Muslim communities in Iraq or Syria or Basra..." began to appear.  Then around 650 A.D. Uthman ordered a definitive copy be produced and bound while other documents, with the inconsequential varients were to be burnt.    Have you read this book? It is a good historical overview, I think.

May I ask please what you know of the history of the compilation of the New Testament?

Ebor

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« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2012, 09:08:58 PM »

Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

If you're referring to the secular individuals today, who claim to be Muslims, and carrying out not-so-islamic acts.... then yes.

But in the early years of the religion, when Europe was struggling with wars, Islam was at the forefront of human endeavors (science, math, philosophy, ...etc.).  A lot of inventions and discoveries were revealed in the Islamic region during the golden age:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

All this creativity came to an end, when people lost their spiritual ways, and didn't pay attention to their faith.... especially in regards to economic and political decisions.  Today, we're seeing the culmination of centuries of ignorance, where certain nations, that claim to be Muslim, impose an unislamic  (haram) financial system on the true muslim people...that's based on the principles of usury... thereby depriving them to enter an entrepreneurial or creative endeavor to help humanity..... and those that have wealth, unfortunately participate in the construction of tall building, big houses, ...etc.... distorting the market for raw materials, and misallocating capital towards superficial wishes.
Wow, this sounds familiar.  Almost like its happened somewhere else in the last 100 or so years.  
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« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2012, 09:29:19 PM »

What's the difference between Salafism and Wahhabism? Are those synonyms for the same basic idea? How widerspread Salafism and/or Wahhabism is among non-Saudi Muslims?

From my understanding, wahhabisim is a branch of Salafism.  A very very long time ago, they were kind of like Amish community of Anabaptist-- live in peaceful ways staying as true to the old ways as possible.

Unfortunately today, their community has been infiltrated, spoiled and heavily radicalized.

I'm not sure how widespread they are, but I can say that the radical elements of that sect is a very small minority - often funded by certain governments for political purposes.

The Wahhabi movement was begun by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (born 1703) who decided it was necessary to "purify" Islam of "superstitions innovations" (Aslan p.241) incorrect beliefs and accretions.  He made an alliance with Muhammad Ibn-Saud which led to the beginning of the Saudi rule in the Arabian Peninsula. It is still the main religious authority in Saudi Arabia to this day from what I have read.

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« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2012, 09:46:57 PM »

Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.

If you're referring to the secular individuals today, who claim to be Muslims, and carrying out not-so-islamic acts.... then yes.

But in the early years of the religion, when Europe was struggling with wars, Islam was at the forefront of human endeavors (science, math, philosophy, ...etc.).  A lot of inventions and discoveries were revealed in the Islamic region during the golden age:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

Could you please give a better idea of the timeframe that you are thinking of here?  Avicenna was flourishing around the early 11th century and Averroes, who was in Al-Andaluz lived in the 12th century. There were others but I mention these two as having a great deal of influence for quite some time.   So I'm not clear as to how this fits with the "early years of the religion" (around the 7th-9th centuries?)  There were things happening in various parts of Europe that were more than just struggling with war.  And there were certainly wars from the Moslem side in those years such as the conquest of the Iberian Penisula and the incursions into what is now France such as the Battle of Poitiers/Tours in 732. 

Quote
All this creativity came to an end, when people lost their spiritual ways, and didn't pay attention to their faith.... especially in regards to economic and political decisions.  

Can you explain this a bit more please?  Some of my readings say that the creativity was rather suppressed by some who came to power and did not want such things that they did not like or agree with to be allowed to continue.

Ebor
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« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2012, 09:47:56 PM »

Peace be with you,

An honest question, and I mean no offense by it at all. But, why does the Quran condone striking a woman, and why does it say she is "below" the man? Should women not be loved and cherished?

Yes, will first of all, in Islamic thought

Men and Women are equal (spiritually) to God...  however, they're unequal physically and mentally to one another.  They're suppose to be compliments to one another (like ying yang, or the sun and the moon - as mentioned in the quran).

So believe me, a pious Muslim really loves the women in his family..... they're very important to him, it brings balance to his life.  Love is the ultimate positive energy.


Now about the striking of women, I think you're referring to a verse in surah 4 talking about a wife that is being hostile and not supportive to you. It's important when you're reading the quran, you also understand the timing and context of the verse.  So keep in mind, that based on hadiths, that this striking is to be done as the last resort, and should be done very gentally with something like a toothbrush.... to symbolically illustrate to her that you disapprove of her current state of attitude.

To elaborate more on this, consider the following analogy....
back in the 1600-1800s, when a man wanted to have duel with another man, he would slap his opponent with a glove to make the challenge.

similarly, in early arabic culture, a strike with a toothbrush (miswak) was a symbolic act to illustrate disappointment, it's very psychological


Now of course, there are some idiots, who take the verse literally with anger in their heart, and seriously harm their wife.  But these people exist all over the world, and they 'follow' all sorts of different religions.  

However, for someone who's really religious, it extremely unlikely they would take aggressive violent action, if their heart is pure and filled with peace.
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« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2012, 09:57:12 PM »

Peace be with you,

An honest question, and I mean no offense by it at all. But, why does the Quran condone striking a woman, and why does it say she is "below" the man? Should women not be loved and cherished?

Yes, will first of all, in Islamic thought

Men and Women are equal (spiritually) to God...  however, they're unequal physically and mentally to one another.  They're suppose to be compliments to one another (like ying yang, or the sun and the moon - as mentioned in the quran).

So believe me, a pious Muslim really loves the women in his family..... they're very important to him, it brings balance to his life.  Love is the ultimate positive energy.


Now about the striking of women, I think you're referring to a verse in surah 4 talking about a wife that is being hostile and not supportive to you. It's important when you're reading the quran, you also understand the timing and context of the verse.  So keep in mind, that based on hadiths, that this striking is to be done as the last resort, and should be done very gentally with something like a toothbrush.... to symbolically illustrate to her that you disapprove of her current state of attitude.

To elaborate more on this, consider the following analogy....
back in the 1600-1800s, when a man wanted to have duel with another man, he would slap his opponent with a glove to make the challenge.

similarly, in early arabic culture, a strike with a toothbrush (miswak) was a symbolic act to illustrate disappointment, it's very psychological


Now of course, there are some idiots, who take the verse literally with anger in their heart, and seriously harm their wife.  But these people exist all over the world, and they 'follow' all sorts of different religions.  

However, for someone who's really religious, it extremely unlikely they would take aggressive violent action, if their heart is pure and filled with peace.


you know there IS a lot of wisdom in the Islamic religion/the Koran.
an almost poetic wisdom.
it to bad and so very sad that the idiots you mentioned above have taken parts of it and interpreted it in such a bad way.
that's probably what is going on with the state of affairs today regarding Islam.
its so very sad......

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« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2012, 10:10:27 PM »

Yes, will first of all, in Islamic thought

Men and Women are equal (spiritually) to God...  however, they're unequal physically and mentally to one another.  They're suppose to be compliments to one another (like ying yang, or the sun and the moon - as mentioned in the quran).

So believe me, a pious Muslim really loves the women in his family..... they're very important to him, it brings balance to his life.  Love is the ultimate positive energy.

That doesn't complement Q4:34 very well:
Quote
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them.
From: here.

Do you view the above as obsolete and archaic, or current?
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« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2012, 10:11:17 PM »

Peace be with you,

An honest question, and I mean no offense by it at all. But, why does the Quran condone striking a woman, and why does it say she is "below" the man? Should women not be loved and cherished?

Yes, will first of all, in Islamic thought

Men and Women are equal (spiritually) to God...  however, they're unequal physically and mentally to one another.  They're suppose to be compliments to one another (like ying yang, or the sun and the moon - as mentioned in the quran).

So believe me, a pious Muslim really loves the women in his family..... they're very important to him, it brings balance to his life.  Love is the ultimate positive energy.


Now about the striking of women, I think you're referring to a verse in surah 4 talking about a wife that is being hostile and not supportive to you. It's important when you're reading the quran, you also understand the timing and context of the verse.  So keep in mind, that based on hadiths, that this striking is to be done as the last resort, and should be done very gentally with something like a toothbrush.... to symbolically illustrate to her that you disapprove of her current state of attitude.

To elaborate more on this, consider the following analogy....
back in the 1600-1800s, when a man wanted to have duel with another man, he would slap his opponent with a glove to make the challenge.

similarly, in early arabic culture, a strike with a toothbrush (miswak) was a symbolic act to illustrate disappointment, it's very psychological


Now of course, there are some idiots, who take the verse literally with anger in their heart, and seriously harm their wife.  But these people exist all over the world, and they 'follow' all sorts of different religions.  

However, for someone who's really religious, it extremely unlikely they would take aggressive violent action, if their heart is pure and filled with peace.

I don't understand your analogy.  A man slaps another man with a glove to indicate that they will fight to the death.  What relevance does that have to correcting a wife's inappropriate behavior, and does the wife have the same option for correcting her husband?
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« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2012, 10:11:49 PM »

Is there any distinction made in Islam between martyrdom (willingly being killed for the sake of your faith) and suicide (willingly killing yourself)? I ask because I know that some Muslims like to refer to suicide bombings as "martyrdom operations" or by similar terms, but that's quite different than how Christianity views martyrdom, so I'm curious if it is just a misuse of the word "martyr" or if anytime a Muslim dies in an action perceived to be done for his faith he is actually considered a martyr.

The best example of martyrdom in Islamic history, is the story of the prophet's grandson, Hussein in the battle of Karbala...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karbala

He had to take care of a community that was dying, thirsty for water..... and had no choice butto  sacrifice himself to save the religion and the lives of his family and friends.  That's what martydom is.



Now in the current era, unfortunately though, there are some who are just angry..... and their mind is occupied with suicidal thoughts.  So rather than trying to get out of a hard situation in a peacful manner, they want to approach it in a violent way.... even though there are smater options.  This would be considered a sin.  Harming yourself in any way is a sin.

There are also hadiths talking about that on judgement day, people who thought they died as martyr, go straight to hell..... because they carried out those acts with anger from the beginning, not out of love for family and friends.
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« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2012, 10:24:30 PM »

Peace be with you,

An honest question, and I mean no offense by it at all. But, why does the Quran condone striking a woman, and why does it say she is "below" the man? Should women not be loved and cherished?

Yes, will first of all, in Islamic thought

Men and Women are equal (spiritually) to God...  however, they're unequal physically and mentally to one another.  They're suppose to be compliments to one another (like ying yang, or the sun and the moon - as mentioned in the quran).

So believe me, a pious Muslim really loves the women in his family..... they're very important to him, it brings balance to his life.  Love is the ultimate positive energy.


Now about the striking of women, I think you're referring to a verse in surah 4 talking about a wife that is being hostile and not supportive to you. It's important when you're reading the quran, you also understand the timing and context of the verse.  So keep in mind, that based on hadiths, that this striking is to be done as the last resort, and should be done very gentally with something like a toothbrush.... to symbolically illustrate to her that you disapprove of her current state of attitude.

To elaborate more on this, consider the following analogy....
back in the 1600-1800s, when a man wanted to have duel with another man, he would slap his opponent with a glove to make the challenge.

similarly, in early arabic culture, a strike with a toothbrush (miswak) was a symbolic act to illustrate disappointment, it's very psychological


Now of course, there are some idiots, who take the verse literally with anger in their heart, and seriously harm their wife.  But these people exist all over the world, and they 'follow' all sorts of different religions.  

However, for someone who's really religious, it extremely unlikely they would take aggressive violent action, if their heart is pure and filled with peace.

I don't understand your analogy.  A man slaps another man with a glove to indicate that they will fight to the death.  What relevance does that have to correcting a wife's inappropriate behavior, and does the wife have the same option for correcting her husband?

I used that analogy, to illustrate a certain symbolic gesture that existed in arabic culture.  The glove slap is a symbolic gesture that existed in western culture when duels were legal.

As for the female correcting her husband...... if she wants to strike him gently with a toothbrush, I don't see any problem with that, but I don't think it'll have the same psychological effect that it has when it's done to a female.  The reason is, females tend to be more emotional than men, it's just how our brains are wired.

Furthermore, if the husband is doing something bad that is completely opposite to the religion, it's best for her to get outside help from parents and other family members, if that doesn't work out, then she should go for a divorce.
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« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2012, 10:31:34 PM »

i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

you sound like a very nice person...like most of the muslams i have known in my life.
when i sit and think of it, i have known and been good friends with many Muslims, never really thought abt it.
all were very likable people, some more then others.
and then i listen to the news and see (have u seen the recent decapitation of a Christian using an little knife to saw off his head, while he is alive and praying!!!) and hear all the crazy things that are done by muslams in the name of Islam/Alah.
How can anyone say anything good abt them when you see what they are doing.
the two just doesent gel, wha the heck is going on!

If Christians were doing the things the Muslims are doing to Christians, only to Muslims, i would say...you know what, i think this Christianity thing is full of sh8t, and reevaluate if Christianity is truly the correct religion i want to be a part of.

Well, as I discussed earlier, many religious Muslims today believe, we're living in the chaotic times of the anti-christ (fitna of dajjal).

All these barbaric acts were prophesied to happen.  The prophet did say that in the future, majority of Muslim will just practice the religion mechanically, take things literally and not spiritually.  So that's why there's so much chaos going on, unfortunatlly.

I think the best thing is to study history, and see what evils have happened in the past that created the bigger evil today.  In almost all cases, it narrows down to fundamentally flawed economic system that's based on usury.  When there is no genuine economic growth (ie. no revolutionary inventions/discovery happening, that would yield new jobs), that's when chaos starts.
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« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2012, 10:38:12 PM »

Is there any distinction made in Islam between martyrdom (willingly being killed for the sake of your faith) and suicide (willingly killing yourself)? I ask because I know that some Muslims like to refer to suicide bombings as "martyrdom operations" or by similar terms, but that's quite different than how Christianity views martyrdom, so I'm curious if it is just a misuse of the word "martyr" or if anytime a Muslim dies in an action perceived to be done for his faith he is actually considered a martyr.

The best example of martyrdom in Islamic history, is the story of the prophet's grandson, Hussein in the battle of Karbala...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karbala

He had to take care of a community that was dying, thirsty for water..... and had no choice butto  sacrifice himself to save the religion and the lives of his family and friends.  That's what martydom is.



Now in the current era, unfortunately though, there are some who are just angry..... and their mind is occupied with suicidal thoughts.  So rather than trying to get out of a hard situation in a peacful manner, they want to approach it in a violent way.... even though there are smater options.  This would be considered a sin.  Harming yourself in any way is a sin.

There are also hadiths talking about that on judgement day, people who thought they died as martyr, go straight to hell..... because they carried out those acts with anger from the beginning, not out of love for family and friends.
So, what happens to these angry nut cases who kill others in ther suicide mission?  According to your understanding of Islam.
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« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2012, 10:40:42 PM »

Quote
In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians

Peace be with you,

But why then does the Koran say that Muslims are not to take Jews and Christians as friends?

Peace be with you aswell,

I've discussed that verse in the same post you quoted.

That verse was referring to Jews and Christians who have political, military, and economic alliances with one another.  In the modern era, it's referring to christian/jews involved in Zionism, Freemasonry, orange order, ...etc. 

During the prophet's time however, it was very rare to find christian communities that had such close alliances with Jewish communities.  There was always animosity between the two.  However, there were some wealthy christian people, who belonged to the ruling class of their nation and had secret relationships with the Jewish community.  What these wealthy Christians did, was secretly give a lot money to the Jewish lenders, and had them lend it out and charge usury on it.  They did this, because they couldn't do out in the open because of their public image.  It's these "shallow Christians", that we're advised not to get too close with.
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« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2012, 10:45:15 PM »

i wish we both religions followed the turn the other cheek thing, instead of defending your self--this would stop all the violence.

you sound like a very nice person...like most of the muslams i have known in my life.
when i sit and think of it, i have known and been good friends with many Muslims, never really thought abt it.
all were very likable people, some more then others.
and then i listen to the news and see (have u seen the recent decapitation of a Christian using an little knife to saw off his head, while he is alive and praying!!!) and hear all the crazy things that are done by muslams in the name of Islam/Alah.
How can anyone say anything good abt them when you see what they are doing.
the two just doesent gel, wha the heck is going on!

If Christians were doing the things the Muslims are doing to Christians, only to Muslims, i would say...you know what, i think this Christianity thing is full of sh8t, and reevaluate if Christianity is truly the correct religion i want to be a part of.

Well, as I discussed earlier, many religious Muslims today believe, we're living in the chaotic times of the anti-christ (fitna of dajjal).

All these barbaric acts were prophesied to happen.  The prophet did say that in the future, majority of Muslim will just practice the religion mechanically, take things literally and not spiritually.  So that's why there's so much chaos going on, unfortunatlly.

I think the best thing is to study history, and see what evils have happened in the past that created the bigger evil today.  In almost all cases, it narrows down to fundamentally flawed economic system that's based on usury.  When there is no genuine economic growth (ie. no revolutionary inventions/discovery happening, that would yield new jobs), that's when chaos starts.
I disagree.  Each person is responsible for his or her own actions.  This blame game doesn't work anywhere else either and I always run the flag up when I see it.  Many Christians believe we are living in the end times, but you don't see them waging religious war against the world, not violently anyway.  Nope, the people who do evil acts are evil people and they WANT to do these thing.  They have found an "out" to use which they feel allows them to kill indiscriminately.  When my kids blame other people for doing something wrong, my kids still get punished.  It's not an acceptable excuse.
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« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2012, 10:45:40 PM »

Could you go into more detail about the "chaotic times of the antichrist"? Are there any references/sources that could help me understand all of this better?  I would like to understand better about why their is currently so much violence in this religion.
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« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2012, 10:45:53 PM »

Is there any distinction made in Islam between martyrdom (willingly being killed for the sake of your faith) and suicide (willingly killing yourself)? I ask because I know that some Muslims like to refer to suicide bombings as "martyrdom operations" or by similar terms, but that's quite different than how Christianity views martyrdom, so I'm curious if it is just a misuse of the word "martyr" or if anytime a Muslim dies in an action perceived to be done for his faith he is actually considered a martyr.

The best example of martyrdom in Islamic history, is the story of the prophet's grandson, Hussein in the battle of Karbala...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karbala

He had to take care of a community that was dying, thirsty for water..... and had no choice butto  sacrifice himself to save the religion and the lives of his family and friends.  That's what martydom is.



Now in the current era, unfortunately though, there are some who are just angry..... and their mind is occupied with suicidal thoughts.  So rather than trying to get out of a hard situation in a peacful manner, they want to approach it in a violent way.... even though there are smater options.  This would be considered a sin.  Harming yourself in any way is a sin.

There are also hadiths talking about that on judgement day, people who thought they died as martyr, go straight to hell..... because they carried out those acts with anger from the beginning, not out of love for family and friends.
So, what's happens to these angry nut cases to kill others in ther suicide mission?  According to your understanding of Islam.

If they had better options prior to their act, then most likely they're going to hell.
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« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2012, 10:48:57 PM »

Yeah, I really just wanted to know if there's a difference between the suicide bombers and actual martyrs. I think that many suicide bombers would say, perhaps not entirely without reason, that they are carrying out an extreme act for the defense of their community (to repel invaders or occupiers) This does not square with the Christian understanding of martyrdom (even our military saints like St. George or Abu Seifain are not considered martyrs for having taken up the sword in battles, but for having died at the hands of the authorities for the sake of their faith). So I don't understand the position taken by some Muslims that if someone dies while spilling another's blood, they're a martyr so long as they're doing it for the sake of their faith.
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« Reply #84 on: September 29, 2012, 10:58:02 PM »

Could you go into more detail about the "chaotic times of the antichrist"? Are there any references/sources that could help me understand all of this better?  I would like to understand better about why their is currently so much violence in this religion.

It's called 'fitna of dajjal',

here's a short pdf of the topic I just found...

http://hubeali.com/articles/The-Fitna-of-Dajjal.pdf


Note that most of these prophecies are metaphorical... when it's talking about the donkey, it's refering to airplane, the one-eye is referring to the symbol of Annuit cœptis that dajjal will be pledging to.
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« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2012, 11:18:45 PM »

I'm confused and discouraged by your answer, Fibonacci. Did you read the article? It is not about the leaders or histories of terrorist groups, but about individuals who decide to commit terrorism, and it shows that those individuals are likely to be richer and more educated than the general populace, not poorer or less educated.

Dzheremi, I'm discussing the issue from a macro perspective.  I wouldn't be surprised that there are some people that join Hamas are relatively from the wealthier and more educated families of Palestine, but do you honestly see Palestine as a whole to be a very wealthy nation? If Palestine was a wealthier nation--that is, they have a thriving manufacturing base with lots of jobs, then there is no doubt in my mind that those group wouldn't exist/operate in those regions.   Same reason why AQ operates in poor countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan.

There are also many other studies I've seen, saying that radicalism occurs in regions with limited jobs/capital investment.  It's really common sense, if you ask me.
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« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2012, 11:32:16 PM »

What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family.  So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

Well, a while ago there was a muslim poster, Mekki who was Sunni, here on the forum who maintained, as I recall, "defending" oneself could be an acceptable reason to attack others who were not being aggressive because since they were different/non-Muslim they were in some way a threat to Islam by their being.  


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« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2012, 11:33:02 PM »

Peace be with you,

An honest question, and I mean no offense by it at all. But, why does the Quran condone striking a woman, and why does it say she is "below" the man? Should women not be loved and cherished?

Yes, will first of all, in Islamic thought

Men and Women are equal (spiritually) to God...  however, they're unequal physically and mentally to one another.  They're suppose to be compliments to one another (like ying yang, or the sun and the moon - as mentioned in the quran).

So believe me, a pious Muslim really loves the women in his family..... they're very important to him, it brings balance to his life.  Love is the ultimate positive energy.


Now about the striking of women, I think you're referring to a verse in surah 4 talking about a wife that is being hostile and not supportive to you. It's important when you're reading the quran, you also understand the timing and context of the verse.  So keep in mind, that based on hadiths, that this striking is to be done as the last resort, and should be done very gentally with something like a toothbrush.... to symbolically illustrate to her that you disapprove of her current state of attitude.

To elaborate more on this, consider the following analogy....
back in the 1600-1800s, when a man wanted to have duel with another man, he would slap his opponent with a glove to make the challenge.

similarly, in early arabic culture, a strike with a toothbrush (miswak) was a symbolic act to illustrate disappointment, it's very psychological


Now of course, there are some idiots, who take the verse literally with anger in their heart, and seriously harm their wife.  But these people exist all over the world, and they 'follow' all sorts of different religions.  

However, for someone who's really religious, it extremely unlikely they would take aggressive violent action, if their heart is pure and filled with peace.

I don't understand your analogy.  A man slaps another man with a glove to indicate that they will fight to the death.  What relevance does that have to correcting a wife's inappropriate behavior, and does the wife have the same option for correcting her husband?

I used that analogy, to illustrate a certain symbolic gesture that existed in arabic culture.  The glove slap is a symbolic gesture that existed in western culture when duels were legal.
So, then, the Qu'ran does allow a husband to symbolically strike the wife. 

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As for the female correcting her husband...... if she wants to strike him gently with a toothbrush, I don't see any problem with that, but I don't think it'll have the same psychological effect that it has when it's done to a female.  The reason is, females tend to be more emotional than men, it's just how our brains are wired.
What does the Qu'ran have to say about it? 

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Furthermore, if the husband is doing something bad that is completely opposite to the religion, it's best for her to get outside help from parents and other family members, if that doesn't work out, then she should go for a divorce.
Wouldn't that be cause to symbolically strike the wife?

I also have questions regarding Islamic women and rape.  I understand that, in order for the woman to prove rape, the rapist must confess to the crime, or the rape must be witnessed by four males.  Please explain.  Thank you.
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« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2012, 11:38:22 PM »

Could you go into more detail about the "chaotic times of the antichrist"? Are there any references/sources that could help me understand all of this better?  I would like to understand better about why their is currently so much violence in this religion.

It's called 'fitna of dajjal',

here's a short pdf of the topic I just found...

http://hubeali.com/articles/The-Fitna-of-Dajjal.pdf


Note that most of these prophecies are metaphorical... when it's talking about the donkey, it's refering to airplane, the one-eye is referring to the symbol of Annuit cœptis that dajjal will be pledging to.

Do you know what the date and source of this document is please?  The historical setting of a document is important in undertanding things, as you yourself have written.

Also, saying that a donkey is really an airplane is an interpretation from a modern perspective, since such craft have only been around for a bit over a century.  How do you *know* that those interpretations are correct?
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« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2012, 11:47:33 PM »

I'm confused and discouraged by your answer, Fibonacci. Did you read the article? It is not about the leaders or histories of terrorist groups, but about individuals who decide to commit terrorism, and it shows that those individuals are likely to be richer and more educated than the general populace, not poorer or less educated.

Dzheremi, I'm discussing the issue from a macro perspective.  I wouldn't be surprised that there are some people that join Hamas are relatively from the wealthier and more educated families of Palestine, but do you honestly see Palestine as a whole to be a very wealthy nation? If Palestine was a wealthier nation--that is, they have a thriving manufacturing base with lots of jobs, then there is no doubt in my mind that those group wouldn't exist/operate in those regions.   Same reason why AQ operates in poor countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan.

There are also many other studies I've seen, saying that radicalism occurs in regions with limited jobs/capital investment.  It's really common sense, if you ask me.

I don't think anyone would argue that having jobs and capital investment makes terrorism less popular on the whole. I'm only arguing that, based on the data of people who have actually looked at the problem, the stereotype of the terrorist as disenfranchised and ignorant does not hold water. Ayman al-Zawahiri is a medical doctor. Bin Laden was a multimillionaire. The Nigeria underwear bomber whose name I cannot remember had a degree from a college in London. Terrorism can and does attract people from many different backgrounds on a purely ideological basis. If it were all about local conditions, we would not see Western converts going to Afghanistan to fight against Western troops. or Saudis and Afghans helping to fight the Russians in the Caucasus, or Arabs supporting Islamist terrorists in the Philippines (who already have their own "Autonomous Province of Muslim Mindanao"., where they are not even the majority religion), etc.
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