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Author Topic: The Venerable Heads of the Oriental Orthodox Churches - Addis Ababa 1965  (Read 3197 times) Average Rating: 0
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Antonious Nikolas
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« on: January 11, 2003, 11:40:58 AM »

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone know where I could get the actual text of this historic meeting?  I am aware that it has been published in book form.  I tried to get it through inter-library loan, but no institution which had it would release it.  Too rare I guess.

I wish that we could all get together like that again.  I have heard that Their Holinesses Abuna Paulos I, Moran Mar Ignatius Zakka I Iwas, and Aram I recently met together.  Hey, its a start.  I think that a lot could be settled if all of our respective and beloved Patriarchs could get together again.

In XC,

A.N.
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2003, 12:04:03 PM »

[The Antiochian Church's successful shift from Greek to Arab Patriarchs is a reason the bonds between the Antiochian Orthodox and Melkite Churches are very warm.]

Which was one of te main reasons for the Melkite Uniate Church in the first palce.

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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2003, 03:50:00 PM »

I wish that we could all get together like that again.  I have heard that Their Holinesses Abuna Paulos I, Moran Mar Ignatius Zakka I Iwas, and Aram I recently met together.  Hey, its a start.  I think that a lot could be settled if all of our respective and beloved Patriarchs could get together again.

In XC,

A.N.

Dear AntoniousNikolas,

I would like to see this happen as well.  I, too, feel that such an important step could go a long way in helping to solve our current problems, as well as guiding our flocks now.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it would ever happen, at least at the present time.  The situation in India is such that the Patriarch of Antioch probably would not agree to meeting the Catholicos of the East, H.H. Moran Mar Baselios Marthoma Mathews II.  I think I read somewhere that, when all the heads of the Oriental Orthodox Churches went to Armenia recently for the consecration of a Catholicos, both hierarchs were there, but the Patriarch's group would not even greet our Catholicos, let alone meet for talks, however informal.  I think the Indian situation will have to reach some sort of peace, or new hierarchs with the right vision will have to take office, before something like Addis Ababa could happen again.  

Incidentally, is the Syrian Orthodox Church alone in being the only Church in our communion not to recognise the Malankara Orthodox Church, or do others also not recognise it?  Do the Copts (I think you are a Copt?) recognise this Church as the Ethiopian Orthodox do, or do they reject it as schismatic like the Syrian Orthodox do?  I am pretty sure about the positions of the Ethiopians and Armenians, but the Copts are the only ones I've never heard a straight answer about.

As for the book on Addis Ababa 1965, is it possible that it is being distributed by someone?  Perhaps the British Orthodox Church might know?  I am not sure, it's just an idea.
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Antonious Nikolas
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2003, 04:34:58 PM »

Dear Mor Ephrem,

Yes, I am Coptic Orthodox.  From what I understand, we do not regard the Malankara Church as schismatic.  I'm pretty sure I saw a picture of some Indian Orthodox clergy (a bishop and a priest) w/ HH Pope Shenouda III in El-Keraza.  These fathers were His Holiness' guests at the Papal residence.  I have also heard that HH was invited by an Indian bishop to participate in the consecration of some priests here in the USA during one of His Holiness' pastoral visits, and that His Holiness accepted the invitation.  

I don't mean to disagree with you, but I don't think that it would be necessary for this issue to be resolved BEFORE another Addis Ababa could take place.  I think that the resolution could be a product of the meeting itself.  I think that the meeting would give us a chance to sit down as a family and make firm decisions regarding not only this issue, but also other areas of controversy, such as the Etchmiadzin vs. Cilicia thing, Ethiopia vs. Eritrea and/or Alexandria, and whatever other dirty laundry we have out there.  We need to discuss these issues openly, as well as take measures to begin a common missionary enterprise in the USA, Australia, Canada, and other areas in which we have a common language and purpose.  

If only His Majesty Haile Selassie had not been overthrown by the godless communists! Cry  As much as people love to criticize the Monarchy, there is something to be said for a righteous Orthodox King being able to get matters done by convening such a conference and suppoting the holy fathers.  Anyway, I'll try the BOC website again, but last time it was to no avail.  If you can think of any other way to get this text, please let me know.  If anyone else has any ideas on how to locate it, please feel free to jump in.

In Christ,

A.N.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2003, 07:11:33 PM by AntoniousNikolas » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2003, 04:55:08 PM »

I don't mean to disagree with you, but I don't think that it would be necessary for this issue to be resolved BEFORE another Addis Ababa could take place.  I think that the resolution could be a product of the meeting itself.  I think that the meeting would give us a chance to sit down as a family and make firm decisions regarding not only this issue, but also other areas of controversy, such as the Etchmiadzin vs. Cilicia thing, Ethiopia vs. Eritrea and/or Alexandria, and whatever other dirty laundry we have out there.  We need to discuss these issues openly, as well as take measures to begin a common missionary enterprise in the USA, Australia, Canada, and other areas in which we have a common language and purpose.  

It's OK to disagree with me, I could be wrong.  Smiley

I certainly hope it is possible to have such a meeting even if some problems are not resolved beforehand, so that we could resolve them there.  I am just very pessimistic about certain things, given the way the current Indian situation is.  Unfortunately, I don't know much about the other problems within our communion.  For an Indian, of whatever "faction", our problem is somewhat "all-consuming".  Lord, have mercy on us and help us!

Thanks for the information regarding your Church's view on ours.  And I will keep an eye out for the book...I've been interested in seeing it myself.
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2003, 02:51:53 AM »

What a coincidence.  I JUST read through the commemorative booklet of that meeting today!  It has a picture of HIM Haile Selassie convening the council!

In Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2003, 11:39:07 AM »

If you've still got it, Anastasios, I would REALLY like to take a look at that some day soon...
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Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

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Antonious Nikolas
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2003, 12:50:20 PM »

Dear Anastasios,

Where could I obtain a copy of this booklet?

Thanks,

A.N.

P.S. - anastasios, where are you?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2003, 09:13:26 AM by AntoniousNikolas » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2003, 11:34:37 AM »

A gentleman (and I believe a Subdeacon) of the British Orthodox Church (Coptic Patriarchate) from the Yahoo group "Oriental Orthodoxy"  has scanned the booklet we have been talking about, and made it available in PDF format.  It looks good, and I encourage everyone to read it (it's about seventy or so pages, though, so it might take a while, I haven't started yet, just took a brief look).  You'll need Adobe Acrobat to read it.  Here's the link:

http://www.uk-christian.net/boc/council.pdf
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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2003, 09:02:24 PM »

Dear friends in Christ,

I have read your words with great interest. This is a topic that has interested me for some time now. AntoniousNikolas, I will ask someone in Ethiopia if they have any of those volumes sitting around there. I am sure they do. The type of books that I have found in some storeroom or bookshelf (or even the corner book dealer) in Addis is astounding, I am sure I can find a copy. There is also summaries scattered throughout different books, you may want to take a look at it.

Overall I think that we should not sit around waiting for hierarchs to formally meet and sign documents that are not going to be implemented as soon as people return to Kerala, Addis Ababa, Alexandria, Echmiadzin, Asmara, etc.

I believe that any future conference will have take place in the context of a fully revived Orthodox Church, with the faithful energetic and ready to carry things to the next level. The last meeting in Addis took place without the participation of any youth. The youth were discussed about, but not discussing anything themselves. It is not that the Fathers forgot about youth but that the youth were pre-occupied with other things: protesting against Vietnam, the monarchy, marching for civil rights, etc. In Ethiopia this generation is called “Ye Tewlid” literally meaning ‘the generation.’ Now, 40 years later Generation X, the children of “Ye tewlid,” realize that social change is utterly useless when you are spiritually dead so here we are back to square one again. To repeat, a conference of the Fathers has to take place within the backdrop of a full pan-Orthodox (Oriental) revival.

I believe that we should take full advantage of the fact that America is where all Oriental Orthodox live in a single country and in significant numbers. We should focus on networking and bringing our youth together in summer camps, picnics, spiritual retreats, and conferences and encourage our Elders to hold more joint Liturgies. From such interaction and practice the living tradition of what will be the Oriental Orhodox Church of America will be born. It will not come from people sitting around drawing up plans and putting things on paper, it will come as a result of praxis.

Let’s focus on what WE can do right here and now and focus less on what our fathers can do for us.

In Krystos,

A. Semaet
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2003, 12:05:13 AM »

Dear Antonius,

Sorry, I missed your message.  I am studying at St. Vladimir's Seminary in Crestwood, NY, USA.

Mor, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.  Glad that you found the booklet online.

In Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2003, 01:37:41 PM »

Aklie - You and I are of the same vision precisely.  It makes my heart happy to hear someone else articulate such sentiments.  And here I thought I was the only one desirous of an "Oriental Orthodox Church of America" (in addition to ethnic parishes, of course).  I thought everyone else would be scared of losing their repsective liturgical traditions and/or culture.  I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this.  Also, if you do run across the book, let me know.  I've read H.H. Karekin I (of blessed memory)'s book "The Witness of the Oriental Orthodox Churches" which had a significant amount of text from the conference in the appendix.  Also, some of it is contained in that little green book "The Ethiopian Orthodox Church" from the 1960's.  Get back to me, brother.

Mor Ephrem - Thanks for the link.  I did follow it to read the book on line and print a (somewhat blurry) copy.  Unfortunately, for some reason I cannot download the text to a disk or my hard-drive.  

anastasios - No problem! it's cool man!  Cool

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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2003, 08:30:55 PM »

Selam brother AntoniousNikolas,

And here I thought I was the only one desirous of an "Oriental Orthodox Church of America" (in addition to ethnic parishes, of course). I thought everyone else would be scared of losing their repsective liturgical traditions and/or culture.

No, I don’t think that an American Oriental Orthodox Church will in any way lead to the demise of the ethnic flavor of our Churches, in fact it will preserve it while at the same time making the witness of Orthodoxy stronger in America and reinvigorating our tired ethnic parishes with an evangelic zeal, that is badly needed.  

In functioning unity things that were not possible before become possible. For instance, I don’t think by itself that the American Malankar Church has the resources to sponsor say two or three of its theologians to come from India and teach full time here. But if we worked together and pulled resources we could open up an American based Orthodox Theological college could sponsor some of those sages to come out here and teach (the same way that at least four of them taught in the Addis Ababa Trinity College in the past).

I just don’t think that meetings and paper work is going to lead to an American Church; it just has to come along by praxis. The more joint liturgies we conduct and joint organizations we form will lead to the living tradition that will form the American Church. That will resolve the language issue, because those joint liturgies will naturally have to be done in English as will all Church communication. Many converts will be drawn to this Church. Of course the specifically Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian, Indian, and Syrian Churches will continue as well, and converts choosing to commune in the ethnic Churches can continue to do so. The more the youth interact the quicker will most of these dumb political issues, so much loved by the old folks, will wither.

Also, some of it is contained in that little green book "The Ethiopian Orthodox Church" from the 1960's.

Yes, that green book is a classic and a storehouse of information. It was printed in the ‘good ‘ole days’ of the 1970’s. A time when the Emperor was opening up Churches left and right, financing two national Orthodox radio stations, promoting an evangelization campaign among pagans in the west of the country and Muslims in the south, as well as among Rastas in the Caribbean. At time when he was giving generous scholarships for students to go to the Coptic theological college in Egypt as well as supporting a vibrant theological college in Addis. It was a time when he let the Protestant missionaries know that they were welcome to open up schools, clinics and even teach basic bible lessons but in no way were they allowed to open up a church in any predominantly Orthodox areas (if I could have my way they would not be allowed to open up their churches in non-Orthodox areas either, but hey). This was  a time when he carried the title given to him unanimously by all the Fathers of Oriental Orthodoxy, “Defender of the Orthodox Faith.”

In Krystos,

Egzabiher ke-ingya gar yihun!

A. Semaet
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2003, 11:59:10 PM »

Dearest Brother Aklie,

I hope that you are right about an authentic American Church growing out of this interraction.  I am not sure that it will necessarily happen in my lifetime, but it would still be wonderful to see.  From what I have read of the decisons of our Fathers in the Addis Council, it was essential that any Church established among a people new to Orthodoxy would not develop as a clone of any of our national Churches, but would instead embrace the native culture.  I would like to see that happen here in the manner in which you described.  I know that it has happened throughout Africa, thanks to the missionary zeal of H.G. Abuna Antonious Markos (Coptic) and H.G. Abuna Yesehaq (Ethiopian).  [A note for others reading this who may be curious: Bishop Markos has labored to establish indigenous Churches throughout the continent, while Bishop Yesehaq's work has been concentrated in South Africa and the Western Hemisphere.  I'm sure Aklie already knows all about this].

On another note, I hope that you will not accuse me of being a closet Rasta when I say that I love His Majesty and I wish that the monarchy was still in power.  I am nostalgic for the kind of situation which you described as having existed during His Majesty's reign.  When I attended the memorial service for those Oriental Orthodox killed in the Sept. 11 attacks at St. Vartan's in NYC, a dyakon of the Ethiopian Church read a letter to the Oriental Orthodox fathers from the Crown Prince.  It actually made my heart a little sad that His Highness was writing from a desk in Maryland, while crypto-communists occupy the royal palace.  His Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I was truly the champion and defender of the Oriental Orthodox faith, not only for his own countrymen, but also for all throughout the world who loved  the Tewahedo confession and the undivided body of Christ.

As the Rastas say, I leave you in Selam ena Feker, mi bredren!  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2013, 10:26:20 AM »

Still expecting a meet in our hearts towards this

George
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