Author Topic: See you at the pole  (Read 6536 times)

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Offline primuspilus

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See you at the pole
« on: September 26, 2012, 07:56:58 AM »
There is an event called "See You At the Pole" every year where kids gather around their flagpoles at school and pray for their school, classmates, country, etc. I've only been to one when I was a kid and I thought it was pretty lame (but a decent enough idea). The event has become pretty widespread here in the USA. Its usually alot of Baptists, Lutherans, etc. But there are also  the occasional JW or Mormon that shows up. Should Orthodox Christians be a part of this or not?

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Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 09:21:34 AM »
Ask an Old Calendarist!  ;) :laugh:
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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 09:21:59 AM »
There is an event called "See You At the Pole" every year where kids gather around their flagpoles at school and pray for their school, classmates, country, etc. I've only been to one when I was a kid and I thought it was pretty lame (but a decent enough idea). The event has become pretty widespread here in the USA. Its usually alot of Baptists, Lutherans, etc. But there are also  the occasional JW or Mormon that shows up. Should Orthodox Christians be a part of this or not?

PP

I played guitar and "lead worship" at a few of these things back in the day! Ha. I dont see any reason why Orthodox students shouldnt participate.  Ive heard people mention that you shouldnt pray with heterodox, but im not completely sure how I feel about that.  I dont see how it could be bad to pray for your school, classmates and country with other people.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 11:33:13 AM »
They prayer an Orthodox Christian makes in his heart with pain and love is more seemly than flag worshipping ecumania.
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Offline KBN1

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 11:50:06 AM »
Yeah, the whole rallying around the American flag bit is crossing a line.  To be clear, I feel the same way about rallying around the flags of Orthodox cultures as well. 

Offline sprtslvr1973

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 12:04:05 PM »
Yeah, the whole rallying around the American flag bit is crossing a line.  To be clear, I feel the same way about rallying around the flags of Orthodox cultures as well. 

The definition of "Religious Nationalism" is probably a bit vague, but in my experience even those who may appreciate the 'God and Country' thing, are pretty cool to the idea of 'Christian Nationalism
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Offline Knee V

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 01:55:08 PM »
There are reasons why canons forbid us from engaging in non-Orthodox prayer with those outside the Church. I would talk to your priest about it.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 11:09:19 PM »
Does this day's name seem sexual to anyone else?

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 11:10:44 PM »
Does this day's name seem sexual to anyone else?

No... ::) :angel: Never crossed my mind.  :-X
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 12:34:48 AM »
I thought this thread was going to be about Mr. Kalina...

Offline JamesR

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 12:43:36 AM »
Praying with heathens? Apostosy! It violates [insert obscure canon here]
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 12:46:15 AM »
Praying with heathens? Apostosy! It violates [insert obscure canon here]

The Apostolic Canons are obscure now?  ;D

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 02:02:17 AM »
Praying with heathens? Apostosy! It violates [insert obscure canon here]

Being RC/Orthodox/LCMS/High Anglican and praying with Evangelicals is like the SCA playing with LARPers.   :police:

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« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 02:03:49 AM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 02:11:44 AM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole, Father, which doth be suffering from the affliction of the dire frost of winter, and we just ask, Father, that You, Father, would just put a hedge of protection, Father, around the school, and just bless the books of our students to their learning, Father. We also just pray, Father...
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Offline mike

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 03:28:59 AM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole,

Why does God need that?

Offline JamesR

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 03:51:11 AM »
One of the above users does kind of have a point. Usually these Evangelical-influenced events can very often be hostile toward or at the very least very awkward for the few EOs or RCs who happen to show up. In fact, many Evangelical kids try to use these events as opportunities to 'evangelise'.
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Offline celticfan1888

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 05:40:23 AM »
Woah! This threads name!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 05:41:01 AM by celticfan1888 »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 07:18:05 AM »
LOL I just thought of that. WOW. SOrry about that mates :)

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Offline KBN1

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 09:33:57 AM »
I have no idea what is wrong with the thread name.   ???  That is what the event is called, is it not?

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 10:54:39 AM »
In my experience with these events, its not so much about the flagpole itself.  The flagpole is usually in a central, public location and every school has one.  I think thats why they go there.  If every school in the country had a giant apple tree out front, maybe theyd have it there.  As usual, i could be wrong in my assessment. Like I said, I only attended a couple of these when I was asked to help "lead worship" back in the day.  Never went on my own.

Being new to Orthodoxy, im not yet aware of all the different cannons out there, so that is why I said I didnt think it would be a big deal to attend one of these things.  A couple of good points have been raised to counter my original post, but I still just dont think it would be a big deal as this type of flagpole gathering just doesnt seem like thats really that serious.  It seems more of an evangelical way to "evangelize" by praying in public, hoping that the "lost" kids at their school will say "hmm, what are they doing? that looks fun. maybe I should check it out." (although that probably doesnt often happen...)

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 11:08:15 AM »
Perhaps it is our duty to Christendom to attend this event.

I hear the neopagans are already planning 'see you at the maypole' to outshine us.
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 11:09:18 AM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole,

Why does God need that?

Are you asking me to justify the evangelical prayer style I am parodying?
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Offline KBN1

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 11:18:43 AM »
If the event were really about prayer then it wouldn't need to be an event.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 12:01:30 PM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole, Father, which doth be suffering from the affliction of the dire frost of winter, and we just ask, Father, that You, Father, would just put a hedge of protection, Father, around the school, and just bless the books of our students to their learning, Father. We also just pray, Father...

Nicely turned.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2012, 03:50:59 PM »
I went to one of these in the late 90s, before I was all hard and cynical about popular religion, and even got my picture in the paper holding hands in a circle with a youth minister and a pretty girl.

But if there ever was a place for a Biblical proof text, though, it’s SYATP:

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 04:14:45 PM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole, Father, which doth be suffering from the affliction of the dire frost of winter, and we just ask, Father, that You, Father, would just put a hedge of protection, Father, around the school, and just bless the books of our students to their learning, Father. We also just pray, Father...

Nicely turned.

I grew up surrounded by that. I should put it down as a second language on my resumé.
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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 04:17:44 PM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole, Father, which doth be suffering from the affliction of the dire frost of winter, and we just ask, Father, that You, Father, would just put a hedge of protection, Father, around the school, and just bless the books of our students to their learning, Father. We also just pray, Father...

Nicely turned.

I grew up surrounded by that. I should put it down as a second language on my resumé.

Sovereign Father God we just, like, want to thank and praise, and um, like uh, you are so beautiful and, this pole, I mean...
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 04:19:32 PM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole, Father, which doth be suffering from the affliction of the dire frost of winter, and we just ask, Father, that You, Father, would just put a hedge of protection, Father, around the school, and just bless the books of our students to their learning, Father. We also just pray, Father...

Nicely turned.

I grew up surrounded by that. I should put it down as a second language on my resumé.

Sovereign Father God we just, like, want to thank and praise, and um, like uh, you are so beautiful and, this pole, I mean...

...in Your Most Precious Name,
Amen.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 11:56:54 PM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole, Father, which doth be suffering from the affliction of the dire frost of winter, and we just ask, Father, that You, Father, would just put a hedge of protection, Father, around the school, and just bless the books of our students to their learning, Father. We also just pray, Father...

Obviously, none of the fictional people praying here were Orthodox since there were no Trinitarian references or superlative apophatic adjectives.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 11:57:49 PM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole,

Why does God need that?

Why did He need foreskins?
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Offline celticfan1888

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2012, 12:16:19 AM »
Father, we just come before You and just lift up our flagpole,

Why does God need that?

Why did He need foreskins?

The Rabbis do.
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Offline Knee V

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2012, 02:52:28 AM »
Of course, the proper application of any canon is determined by one's bishop, or one's priest with the blessing of the bishop. So, as I said, it is best to first check with one's priest. But in a more general sense, the reason that we are not to pray with heretics/heterodox/schismatics/non-christians, is that to participate with them in their prayers and rites is to consent to the validity of what it is they're doing and what it is they believe and to align ourselves with them. So, generally speaking, to attend a "See You at the Pole" event is to essentially conform ourselves to the heresies of many of those attending and to send a message that we agree with them in what they do and how they do it.

We have to guard ourselves against seeming arrogant when we approach this kind of thing (especially if we're invited or we're asked why we're not there), but we also have to guard ourselves from error and not deliberately go out of our way to place ourselves in spiritually precarious positions. It is a dangerous thing to join heretics and non-Christians in their prayers and rites. And certain levels of that kind of participation even automatically place us outside of the Church by virtue of our participation (for example, getting married outside the Church, taking communion somewhere outside the Church, etc).

I just urge you to be very careful when approaching this.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2012, 06:37:23 AM »
Obviously, none of the fictional people praying here were Orthodox since there were no Trinitarian references or superlative apophatic adjectives.

I love how it's always Christ they address repeatedly as Father. Sabellius would be proud.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2012, 06:40:33 AM »
Yeah, the whole rallying around the American flag bit is crossing a line.

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« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 06:41:01 AM by Orthodox11 »

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2012, 12:25:30 PM »
Obviously, none of the fictional people praying here were Orthodox since there were no Trinitarian references or superlative apophatic adjectives.

I love how it's always Christ they address repeatedly as Father. Sabellius would be proud.

Although the "In Your Name" ending might give that impression, I think if you asked them they would say they were addressing the Father (if they had enough understanding of the Trinity to grasp the difference).
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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2012, 12:51:58 PM »
Obviously, none of the fictional people praying here were Orthodox since there were no Trinitarian references or superlative apophatic adjectives.

You forgot "vouchsafe".
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2012, 01:05:00 PM »
Although the "In Your Name" ending might give that impression, I think if you asked them they would say they were addressing the Father (if they had enough understanding of the Trinity to grasp the difference).

I've heard people say "We thank you Jesus for being our Father, and Jesus our heavenly Father, we just ask, Father, that erm..." etc.

I actually heard one guy use "Daddy" since "Father" wasn't intimate enough.

Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2012, 01:48:50 PM »
Me and a friend used to count how many times someone praying would say "just."  :laugh:
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2012, 02:02:18 PM »
Although the "In Your Name" ending might give that impression, I think if you asked them they would say they were addressing the Father (if they had enough understanding of the Trinity to grasp the difference).

I've heard people say "We thank you Jesus for being our Father, and Jesus our heavenly Father, we just ask, Father, that erm..." etc.

I actually heard one guy use "Daddy" since "Father" wasn't intimate enough.

*facepalm*

That's new on me.

In the same vein, how many times has an evangelical compared the Trinity to water, ice, and steam? *facepalm*
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Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2012, 02:21:38 PM »
Although the "In Your Name" ending might give that impression, I think if you asked them they would say they were addressing the Father (if they had enough understanding of the Trinity to grasp the difference).

I've heard people say "We thank you Jesus for being our Father, and Jesus our heavenly Father, we just ask, Father, that erm..." etc.

I actually heard one guy use "Daddy" since "Father" wasn't intimate enough.



*facepalm*

That's new on me.

In the same vein, how many times has an evangelical compared the Trinity to water, ice, and steam? *facepalm*

Or the egg; shell, egg white and yoke. That was one I heard quite a lot growing up.
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2012, 03:06:21 PM »
Although the "In Your Name" ending might give that impression, I think if you asked them they would say they were addressing the Father (if they had enough understanding of the Trinity to grasp the difference).

I've heard people say "We thank you Jesus for being our Father, and Jesus our heavenly Father, we just ask, Father, that erm..." etc.

I actually heard one guy use "Daddy" since "Father" wasn't intimate enough.



*facepalm*

That's new on me.

In the same vein, how many times has an evangelical compared the Trinity to water, ice, and steam? *facepalm*

Or the egg; shell, egg white and yoke. That was one I heard quite a lot growing up.

Just when you thought it didn't get worse than modalism. Then again, isn't St. Patrick credited with the at least equally dangerous three-leaf clover analogy?
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Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2012, 03:25:27 PM »
Although the "In Your Name" ending might give that impression, I think if you asked them they would say they were addressing the Father (if they had enough understanding of the Trinity to grasp the difference).

I've heard people say "We thank you Jesus for being our Father, and Jesus our heavenly Father, we just ask, Father, that erm..." etc.

I actually heard one guy use "Daddy" since "Father" wasn't intimate enough.



*facepalm*

That's new on me.

In the same vein, how many times has an evangelical compared the Trinity to water, ice, and steam? *facepalm*

Or the egg; shell, egg white and yoke. That was one I heard quite a lot growing up.

Just when you thought it didn't get worse than modalism. Then again, isn't St. Patrick credited with the at least equally dangerous three-leaf clover analogy?

I know very little about his analogy, to be honest  :-\
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Offline Knee V

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2012, 03:00:34 AM »
Me and a friend used to count how many times someone praying would say "just."  :laugh:

I do the exact same thing. I also count how many times someone says "Father" or "Father God".

Offline Kerdy

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2012, 04:43:36 AM »
I see no problem with the event.  It's once a year at a common place to pray for the country and its leaders.  We find this in the Divine Liturgy.  And after all, whether we like the way someone prays is irrelevant when we consider the other option, which some are trying to make happen.  No prayer allowed.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: See you at the pole
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2012, 12:58:02 PM »
Then again, isn't St. Patrick credited with the at least equally dangerous three-leaf clover analogy?

It's another thing using that analogy when presenting Christianity to pagans as a form of simple introduction, and then following it up later with more in-depth catechism.