Topic: Ethiopian Christians testimony??

[walter1234]

Doing these time and space taking Faith Healing Services and being over crowded with such a large mass, Won’t this affect your private and family life?

Priest/Exorcist Girma : My private life is only for prayer. The rest would all be fulfilled by the Will of God. After my Faith Healing programs , I spend my time in prayers and taking the Holy Communion frequently, because the way to defend devil is when you have Lord inside you, so it is by taking the Holy Communion that the devil is won and you get strengthened. Because He said “I am the bread of life.’’

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-627906

Faith Healing program?

Faith healing is the doctrine which is created by the Charismatic Christianity. Memhir Girma also believe in faith healing ?

What is Orthodox teaching on 'Faith Healing'?  Why would an Oriental Orthodoxy priest hold a program called 'Faith Healing program' ?

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I really don't know much about this Priest. I know he is controversial. I am reminded of this passage of scripture:

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward." [St. Mark 9:38-41]

Also, we must remember that "Faith healing" - if properly understood - is indeed an Orthodox concept. We believe that there is healing in and through the sacramental graces. Of course, the difference between Orthodox "faith healing" and the charismatic perversion is that we don't teach that people will be healed if they simply have enough faith. Instead, Orthodoxy teaches that God can heal any illness, affliction, or disease, and that He often does so in and through the sacramental graces of the Church. But God may choose not to heal a person in order to allow their suffering to be their cross that will enable them to draw closer to the kingdom. Whereas charismatics believe that it is always God's will for people to be healed, we Orthodox recognize that God often allows us to suffer so that we can learn and grow from our struggles.

This Priest may in fact be doing God's work. But like I said, I don't know enough bout him to state an opinion one way or another. If he is teaching error or heresy, then that would definitely reveal him to be a fraud. But I haven't heard any teaching of his that is outside of the doctrines of the Faith. I just don't know enough about him.

In the end, a tree is known by its fruit. If his work is a divine work, then it will bear good fruit. If it is not of God, then it will wither in time.


Selam

[walter1234]

I really don't know much about this Priest. I know he is controversial. I am reminded of this passage of scripture:

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward." [St. Mark 9:38-41]

Also, we must remember that "Faith healing" - if properly understood - is indeed an Orthodox concept. We believe that there is healing in and through the sacramental graces. Of course, the difference between Orthodox "faith healing" and the charismatic perversion is that we don't teach that people will be healed if they simply have enough faith. Instead, Orthodoxy teaches that God can heal any illness, affliction, or disease, and that He often does so in and through the sacramental graces of the Church. But God may choose not to heal a person in order to allow their suffering to be their cross that will enable them to draw closer to the kingdom. Whereas charismatics believe that it is always God's will for people to be healed, we Orthodox recognize that God often allows us to suffer so that we can learn and grow from our struggles.

This Priest may in fact be doing God's work. But like I said, I don't know enough bout him to state an opinion one way or another. If he is teaching error or heresy, then that would definitely reveal him to be a fraud. But I haven't heard any teaching of his that is outside of the doctrines of the Faith. I just don't know enough about him.

In the end, a tree is known by its fruit. If his work is a divine work, then it will bear good fruit. If it is not of God, then it will wither in time.


Selam

That's true. Chrismatic always teacesh that God is a healer. So, he must heal all the sicks. And God is a rich and prosperity God. He will not let anybody be poor and suffer. We are sick, poor, suffered become we do not have enough faith.

[orthonorm]

And God is a rich and prosperity God. He will not let anybody be poor and suffer. We are sick, poor, suffered become we do not have enough faith.

Uhhh.

No. Unless you really want to sophisticate your statement.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

And God is a rich and prosperity God. He will not let anybody be poor and suffer. We are sick, poor, suffered become we do not have enough faith.

Uhhh.

No. Unless you really want to sophisticate your statement.

I think he was articulating the Charismatic view, not his own view.


Selam

[orthonorm]

And God is a rich and prosperity God. He will not let anybody be poor and suffer. We are sick, poor, suffered become we do not have enough faith.

Uhhh.

No. Unless you really want to sophisticate your statement.

I think he was articulating the Charismatic view, not his own view.


Selam

You're right!

Sorry Walter.

[rachel]

To address the specifics of your question now with the limited time I have right now, the miracles of the Blessed Virgin Mary refer not to St. Mary being God, but that by her hand God does many miraculous signs and wonders, due to the holiness of her life

Mary was not sinless

and the powerful favor her prayer has before her Son our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Where in scripture does it tell you this?

How do we even know of St.Mary ? We know the Blessed Virgin because of her son, in Israel there were many who were called Mary, none of them are remembered or honored like her, why? Because none of them are the Birth Giver of God in Flesh, She is the Mother of the Living, one given to us by Christ from the Cross. Behold thy mother! So there is incredible devoted Love for her in our hearts, in imitation of Christ her beloved Son, and our Lord we seek to obey and love her with the love of a child to his mother and she in turn always tells us to listen to Him as she has done in Canna.

Where in scripture does God tell us to obey Mary?

Her life the best example of obedience to God, humility, purity, and devotion to God, perseverance in suffering, Love unwavering, etc. we are all called to imitate

Where in scripture are we told to imitate her?

because by imitating her we imitate Christ.

Everywhere in scripture we read where it is Christ who is lifted up not Mary.

She is the perfect example of what we are ALL called to become i.e. become God bearers!

Where are we told in scripture to become 'God-bearers?'

The language used is not new, it is an Orthodox Tradition, to talk that way with the given understanding that all miracles are done by God, and that He does them by the hand of His Saints.



13Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

NB - Scripture says 'in the name of the Lord' NOT in the name of Mary.

[rachel]

I am a protestant. All these teachings are come from Protestant. Protestant believe in bible alone. And according to the bible, nobody has made an intercession prayer in old or new testamony.Thus, protestant believe intercession prayer is a tradition which is not biblical.

In 1 Timothy 2:1-3 we read:

Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,  for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

So in the bible we are asked to make intercessions; and not only that St. Paul is telling us that it is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior.

He was not speaking of communing with the dead.

In Gospel of St. John 11:25-26 we read:

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

We take this seriously.     So the saints who believed in Him , theough they are dead (physically) are still alive. So we seek and offer intercessions of our fellow believers and saints who are fully alive in the Lord in the spirit,  irrespective of the status of their body (body may be alive or dead).

But God's word does not tell you to do this.

[rachel]

 
If I were the leader of an Orthodox Christian country I think I would advocate passing a law which banned such Protestant "evangelism" under the penalty of sentencing in jail for disrupting peace and scandalizing the minds of the faithful.

But, maybe I'm just being too zealous...

What do you all think?

So you'd be in agreement with what happened to some of the early church!

[rachel]

I have never seen anywhere in the bible where the apostles were doing exorcism in the name of Mary.  Mary was a holly woman that was chosen by GOD to bring JESUS in flesh to this world.  THAT IS IT! She carried the seed of Adam and she herself needed a savior to cleanse her from the sin that she inherited from Adam.  The only one that can cleanse that for all humans is JESUS CHRIST, the son of God. He did that by shedding his blood on the cross and by paying the price of death so that we may have ETERNAL LIFE.  Yes the apostles did miracles and they were saints, but they did it because Jesus Christ gave them power through the Holy Spirit.  THEY HAVE NO POWER OF THEIR OWN. 

Now all of the apostles are humans like you and me and they say it themselves in the bible.  They always say in the book of Acts once they perform a miracle in the name of Jesus, to give all the glory to Jesus Christ.  So they can’t intercede for us once they are dead because Jesus was doing the miracles through them in the first place.  Once a person dies, they go to heaven or hell.  THAT IS IT! They are not omnipresent (can't be everywhere at once) and can't intercede for us.  The apostles died and went to heaven.  They are not here around us or hearing our prayers.  Only God the father, son and the holly spirit can do that for us

 
 
Now, what Memhir Girma is doing is a trick to take people away from the POINT OF CHRISTIANITY. Which is that; “to give people eternal life, Jesus Christ came on earth and died for us on the cross, and those that believe in him, will never perish but have eternal life”. (John 3:15). He came for each one of us and we must have a personal relationship with him AND ONLY HIM so that he can live in us through the Holy Spirit.  THAT IS IT! Memhir Girma is taking people away from the true gospel to that of Mary who herself said to listen to Jesus during the miracles in Galilee. 

1)      Mary didn’t stay a virgin forever and had children other than Jesus.

•Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin UNTIL she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."

•Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

•Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

2)      God is AGAINST using idols (like the painting of God, Jesus or Mary) to aid us in worshipping him.  Memhir Girma is using the painting of Mary to do healing which is not biblical.  God said in Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. Jesus said we must worship God in spirit and in truth.  “For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth John 4:24.  And also since he is a spirit we can’t paint him or his son.  We must connect our spirit to that of God when we pray not to icons or idols. 

 
 
 
 
So I rebuke what Memhir Girma is doing in the name of JESUS CHRIST.  The only one that can heal is JESUS CHRIST.  THANK YOU.

Amen.

[rachel]

Chrismatic always teacesh that God is a healer. So, he must heal all the sicks. And God is a rich and prosperity God. He will not let anybody be poor and suffer. We are sick, poor, suffered become we do not have enough faith.

Is this teaching biblical? No. So test what you hear like you are told to in God's word. Even from early church times you read that heresies were preached. So hold fast to God's word. Orthodox teaching has much that is against scripture and therefore heretical. So find a church that teaches biblical truth.

 
Rachel, you are being put on Post Moderation for calling Orthodoxy heretical.

It seems you are not familiar with the usual course of discussing various issues and interests, and would rather proselytize and preach your personal beliefs on this Forum.

If you have any questions regarding your Post Moderation, please send me a PM.

LizaSymonenko - Global Moderator

[walter1234]

I have no problem that Theotokos and Saints are still alive in Christ and praying for us in Heaven. And Sicks can be healed , demons can be casted out through their prayers. But I have a question.


Is it true that the Orthodox Priests would do the exorcism/ cast out the demons in the name of Theotokos?

[Ansgar]

I have no problem that Theotokos is /Saints are alive in Christ and still praying for us in Heaven. Sick can be healed , Demons can be casted out through their prayer. But I have a question.


Is it true that the Orthodox Priests would do the exorcism/ cast out the demons in the name of Theotokos?

A priest might ask the Theotokos to pray for the possesed, but an exorcism will always be done in the name of Christ, as far as I know.

[Ansgar]

Where are we told in scripture to become 'God-bearers?'

In this case, I think it is meant in the way that we are all called to carry the Spirit of God within us.

[Ansgar]

Walter, this article might be of interest. It contains several orthodox prayers of exorcism.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Exorcism#Prayer_by_St._John_Chrysostom

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

To address the specifics of your question now with the limited time I have right now, the miracles of the Blessed Virgin Mary refer not to St. Mary being God, but that by her hand God does many miraculous signs and wonders, due to the holiness of her life

Mary was not sinless

Where in scripture does it say that Mary was not sinless?



Selam

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

Chrismatic always teacesh that God is a healer. So, he must heal all the sicks. And God is a rich and prosperity God. He will not let anybody be poor and suffer. We are sick, poor, suffered become we do not have enough faith.

Is this teaching biblical? No. So test what you hear like you are told to in God's word. Even from early church times you read that heresies were preached. So hold fast to God's word. Orthodox teaching has much that is against scripture and therefore heretical. So find a church that teaches biblical truth.

May God forgive your arrogance and ignorance. For all your rants on this forum, you have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever of any Orthodox doctrine that is contrary to scripture. We have tried to be patient with you and answer your questions sincerely and thoroughly. But now you have crossed the line and are blatantly proselytizing against the Orthodox Faith. I hope the moderators will act to stop you from doing this any longer. It is dishonest and shameful.


Selam

[rachel]

To address the specifics of your question now with the limited time I have right now, the miracles of the Blessed Virgin Mary refer not to St. Mary being God, but that by her hand God does many miraculous signs and wonders, due to the holiness of her life

Mary was not sinless

Where in scripture does it say that Mary was not sinless?



Selam

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

To address the specifics of your question now with the limited time I have right now, the miracles of the Blessed Virgin Mary refer not to St. Mary being God, but that by her hand God does many miraculous signs and wonders, due to the holiness of her life

Mary was not sinless

Where in scripture does it say that Mary was not sinless?



Selam

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

So Jesus sinned?



Selam

[sprtslvr1973]

It's never that easy I'm sure...  

By "persecution" it would reinforce the feeling that they are the true Church (maybe by "persecutions") , and in the same way maybe more evangelism. And you'll be labeled as extremist by other countries, right ?

Dubai forbids proselytism and they are very moderate. Just because I would forbid Protestants from publicly spreading and expressing their false religion does not mean I would inhibit them from practicing it in the privacy of their homes and parishes.

One of the main reasons I am so against Protestant evangelism is because of the deceitful tactics their missionaries use. If an Orthodox Christian wants to abandon the true faith in exchange for godless heresy, then so be it. But let them make that choice on their own after an honest look at the evidence, and without the treachery and lies of the evangelicals. I am not saying all Protestants are like that, I am talking about the fundamentalists (e.g. Jack T. Chick).

Jack Chick is not a fundamentalist Christian. He is a fake Christian.

(Post modified to fix quote tags.  Salpy)

[Severian]

^Indeed. But I was not at all implying that Jack Chick (or any Protestants for that matter) is/are Christian. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Protestantism is *NOT* Christianity.

[Salpy]

Rachel,

Do you agree with the Orthodox that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God?

[Mor Ephrem]

To address the specifics of your question now with the limited time I have right now, the miracles of the Blessed Virgin Mary refer not to St. Mary being God, but that by her hand God does many miraculous signs and wonders, due to the holiness of her life

Mary was not sinless

Where in scripture does it say that Mary was not sinless?



Selam

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

So Jesus sinned?



Selam

LOL.  Jesus, being human as well as divine, must surely count as one among "all".  So either Jesus was a sinner or Paul was a liar.  Check!

[sprtslvr1973]

Rachel,

Do you agree with the Orthodox that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God?

She still had a sinful nature and needed Christ's forgiveness

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

To address the specifics of your question now with the limited time I have right now, the miracles of the Blessed Virgin Mary refer not to St. Mary being God, but that by her hand God does many miraculous signs and wonders, due to the holiness of her life

Mary was not sinless

Where in scripture does it say that Mary was not sinless?



Selam

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

So Jesus sinned?



Selam

LOL.  Jesus, being human as well as divine, must surely count as one among "all".  So either Jesus was a sinner or Paul was a liar.  Check!

Exactly. But next I anticipate Rachel to proof text St. Luke 1:47, where the Virgin Mary calls Christ her "savior." So obviously this means that the Virgin Mary sinned, right? But Rachel's assumption would be wrong once again. For the Virgin Mary, although sinless, still suffered like all people from the effects of a fallen world and the consequence of death that resulted from the fall. So in this sense, she needed saving like all human beings. But there is no indication in scripture that St. Mary committed any sin.


Selam

[LBK]

Rachel,

Do you agree with the Orthodox that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God?

She still had a sinful nature and needed Christ's forgiveness

I'm waiting for Rachel's answer. But she does have a track record of dodging legitimate questions ...