Author Topic: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??  (Read 839 times)

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Offline walter1234

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How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« on: September 23, 2012, 04:11:07 AM »
How do orthodox christians understand/view of Trinity??

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 06:36:04 AM »
Three Persons, one essence. The Son is begotten of the Father, the Spirit proceeds from the Father.
 
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 06:40:01 AM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

Offline walter1234

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2012, 10:45:48 PM »
What are the difference between father , son and holy spirit???
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 10:46:22 PM by walter1234 »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2012, 11:01:15 PM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 11:53:47 PM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.
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Offline Knee V

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 11:59:41 PM »
The Cappadocian Fathers were clear about the Divinity of the Godhead stemming from the Divinity of the Father. In other words, the Son and the Holy Spirit are God because the Father is God. They would say that it is wrong to speak of a common Divine Essence as if that common Divine Essence were itself something that binds all Three together, almost like a 4th member of the Trinity. So instead of starting with the notion of One Essence for all three Persons, they start with the Person of the Father and Him being God. From the Father the Son is eternally begotten. And since He is eternally begotten of the Father, He is what (not who, but what) the Father is. And from the Father the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds. And since He eternally proceeds from the Father, He is what the Father is (and also what the Son is). Thus the Son and the Holy Spirit are God because the Father is God. The Trinity is One because the Father is One. Yes, they are One Essence, but only because that is the Essence of the Father as the Fountainhead of Divinity.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 01:02:05 AM »
How do orthodox christians understand/view of Trinity??

There is one God, the Father Almighty;

The Father has a Word and a Spirit;

The Father has always had a Word and a Spirit;

The Word and Spirit are Divine because the Father has always had them, and because they come from Him.
Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

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Offline IoanC

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 11:41:32 AM »
A common metaphor is thinking of the sun. The sun has disc (The Father), rays (The Son), and light (The Spirit); all three in one sun.

A more complicated answer:
The differences between The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are as important as the fact that only together they are God. It is false to think of God as one person, to think that only God The Father is God, etc.. The Father is the source of The Trinity and the Will. The Son is begotten by The Father and He is The Wisdom (or Logos, or Icon). The Spirit is proceeded from The Father and He is, well, The Spirit. Each One is one aspect of God, and together They are One. So, there are Three Equal Divine Persons, each fully Divine, but Each has a different quality than the Others.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 11:53:24 AM by IoanC »

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 01:06:30 PM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 01:33:38 PM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

No father exists before his son does. This is just taking a simple phenomenological insight and going pro with it.

You can pretty much ditch the essence talk which begets the ontological / economical split within Trinitarian language. Everything that you really need to know is in the Creed. 
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 02:13:08 PM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

Eternally begotten means that the Word is not only begotten of the father at one event, but that he is always being begotten.
Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 02:23:16 PM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

Eternally begotten means that the Word is not only begotten of the father at one event, but that he is always being begotten.

That's not the problem. No son is ever begotten in a single moment.

It is that in order to beget you must exist.

Therefore, the Father must exist in some manner before the Son.

But this is no problem, since fathers never precede their sons. Procession is the rise of both son and father.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2012, 05:01:50 PM »
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

Eternally begotten means that the Word is not only begotten of the father at one event, but that he is always being begotten.

That's not the problem. No son is ever begotten in a single moment.

It is that in order to beget you must exist.

Therefore, the Father must exist in some manner before the Son.

But this is no problem, since fathers never precede their sons. Procession is the rise of both son and father.

I already thought your answer was correct!
Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

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