Author Topic: the roles of mary in orthodox church??  (Read 6254 times)

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Offline walter1234

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the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« on: September 23, 2012, 02:20:21 AM »
1.What is the role of Virgin Mary in Orthodox Church?? Are orthodox christian honor Mary as the same way honor the saints??

2. Will orthodox christian call Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven,our Queen, like Catholic Christians??


3. I heard the catholic christians said that Virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus. Praying to Jesus through the intercession with Virgin Mary will be more effective. Does the orthodox christian agree with it??

Offline dhinuus

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 02:51:21 AM »
1.What is the role of Virgin Mary in Orthodox Church?? Are orthodox christian honor Mary as the same way honor the saints??
Orthodox Christians refer to the Virgin Mary as the Theotokos (or in Syriac Yaldoth Aloho) ie God Bearer or "Mother of God".  The Theotokos is held in a very high honor.

2. Will orthodox christian call Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven,our Queen, like Catholic Christians??

Virgin Mary the Theotokos is called the Queen. We interpret the 'queen in gold from Ophir' referred to in Psalm 45:9 is indeed her.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%2045:9&version=NKJV

3. I heard the catholic christians said that Virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus. Praying to Jesus through the intercession with Virgin Mary will be more effective. Does the orthodox christian agree with it??
I am not sure how to measure the effectiveness of praying directly to Jesus vs asking for the intercession of Virgin Mary. Assume you are going thru some hardships; and you ask your mother to pray for you.. and you pray for yourself. Is your mothers prayer more effective than yours. I don't know.
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Offline Knee V

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 12:08:09 AM »
1.What is the role of Virgin Mary in Orthodox Church?? Are orthodox christian honor Mary as the same way honor the saints??

2. Will orthodox christian call Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven,our Queen, like Catholic Christians??


3. I heard the catholic christians said that Virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus. Praying to Jesus through the intercession with Virgin Mary will be more effective. Does the orthodox christian agree with it??


1) We honor all the saints as the work of the Holy Spirit manifest in their lives. "God is wondrous in His saints." Mary, the Theotokos (God-bearer, or Mother of God), as part of the body of Christ (just like all the saints) intercedes for the Church to her Son. Her prayers help us.

2) dhinuus answered that one about as well as I would have answered it.

3) Yes, Mary is the mother of Jesus. And since Christ is God (and in the flesh He has been God since the absolute moment of conception), she is the Mother of God (unless we would deny that Christ is God). We need all the prayers we can get. We ask for the prayers of Mary, just as we ask for the prayers of all the saints. We cannot separate Christ from His work in the lives of the saints, and we cannot separate the saints from the work of Christ. We cannot have Christ without the whole body. We live in order to commune with God, and ask the saints to pray for us that we might acquire the grace of the Holy Spirit and truly come to know Christ fully.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 12:32:22 AM »
 The Divine Services of the Orthodox Church call her:

"All Holy;" Pure, Most Blessed;" "Glorious Lady;" the "Mother of God," ("Theotokos") which some feel is better translated as "Birth-giver of God;" and "Ever Virgin Mary"

"A protection of Christians unshameable, Intercessor to our Holy Maker, unwaivering" "a protection for all time"

"Ever Blessed;" "All Blameless" "More honorable than the Cherubim," "More glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim;" "Who without stain did bear God the Word."

"Queen of All," is another term Orthodoxy ascribes to her.  (There is a church named for her in Louisville, Kentucky, "Panaghia Pandovasiliasa," "The All Holy Queen of All.")

"She who contained the uncontainable one" 

And there are many, many more adjectives about her throughout Orthodox Christian hymnology.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 12:44:02 AM by Basil 320 »
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Offline Knee V

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 12:39:38 AM »
Something I forgot to add:

Mary is certainly special. She is uniquely blessed among women. However, what we say is true of her is true of her because it is true of the entire Church. As Christ is the archetype of mankind, Mary is the prototype of the Church. She fully submitted herself to God, and the Church fully submits herself to God. Mary is a spotless virgin, and the Church is a spotless virgin. Mary bore God within herself, and the Church bears God within herself. Mary is "more honorable than the Cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim", and the Church is "more honorable than the Cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim."

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 01:06:10 AM »
2. Will orthodox christian call Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven,our Queen, like Catholic Christians??
Yeah, sometimes.

Because Jesus is the Messiah and a Davidic King, and the queen in Israeli kingship was the mother of the king.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2012, 10:14:32 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m_JtyDkHR8&feature=related



In these videos / websites, I see a term which is called " Mirales of Blessed Virgin Mary". This confuses me a lot.  :-\


1) As what I know, Virgin Mary is the most honored saints in Orthodox Church. However, She is not God. Only Trinity GOd is God. Moreover, Trinity God is  the only one who gives the power to His servants to perform miracles, or the only one who performs miracles through His servants, animals, or any other objects, etc, but not Virgin Mary.Why do some orthodox christians call these miracles that God perform or God performed through His servants as " Miracles of Blessed Virgin Mary" rather than " Miracle of God"??

2)The term of  " Mirales of Blessed Virgin Mary" seems give all paise to Virgin Mary, not to God. However, God is the only one who give power to His servants to perform this miracles or the only one who do so through miracles through His servants, animals, or any other objects, etc. All Glory should belong to God alone. Why do some orthodox christians give  the praises to Mary, but not  to Trinity God??
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 10:34:07 AM by walter1234 »

Offline mike

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 10:17:24 AM »
2)The term of  " Mirales of Blessed Virgin Mary" seems give all paise toVirgin Mary, not God.

That's your own view.

Quote
However, God is the only one who give power to His servants to perform this miracles or the only one who do so through miracles through His servants, animals, or any other objects, etc

Right.

Quote
Why do some orthodox christians give  the praise to Mary, but not  to Trinity God??

None of us does that.

Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 10:32:25 AM »
2)The term of  " Mirales of Blessed Virgin Mary" seems give all paise toVirgin Mary, not God.

That's your own view.

Quote
However, God is the only one who give power to His servants to perform this miracles or the only one who do so through miracles through His servants, animals, or any other objects, etc

Right.

Quote
Why do some orthodox christians give  the praise to Mary, but not  to Trinity God??

None of us does that.
I think this also confuses many Protestant Christians.

'Miracle of blessed Virgin Mary' ='Virgin Mary's mircales'= 'Miracles that come from Virgin Mary'  

Seems Miracles are not performed by or come from God...

I still cannot understand, still confuse. Can somebody explain to me more detail?

« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 10:36:04 AM by walter1234 »

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 10:34:21 AM »
"Miracle performed after Theotokos' intercession to her Son"
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 10:34:34 AM by Michał Kalina »

Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 10:23:50 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmWiQ4sJ8A


This video/ The pastor in this video shows how most Protestant Christians view on Virgin Mary. Do you have any comment on it??
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 10:24:08 AM by walter1234 »

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 10:26:59 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmWiQ4sJ8A


This video/ The pastor in this video shows how most Protestant Christians view on Virgin Mary. Do you have any comment on it??

We don't care.

Does that satisfy you?

Offline jmbejdl

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 10:40:16 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmWiQ4sJ8A


This video/ The pastor in this video shows how most Protestant Christians view on Virgin Mary. Do you have any comment on it??

We know how Protestants view the Theotokos. A fair few of us, including myself, are ex-Protestants. The Protestant view of her is wrong and, ironically considering that Protestants adhere to sola scriptura, it seems to me, directly contradicted by the Bible:

And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
-Luke 1: 41-42


How do you reconcile that with the Protestant position? I was never able to, and I'd note that Martin Luther, he who started the Protestant Reformation, honoured the Theotokos above all women also. If 'Bible alone' lead him to adhere to a view of the Theotokos much like ours, why does 'Bible alone' lead many modern Protestants to quite another. The answer, might I suggest, is that nobody, no matter how much they claim to, can approach the Bible alone. The question isn't whether you interpret it via a tradition, but which tradition to use - the 2000 year old Holy Tradition of the Church or the much more recent traditions of the Protestants.

James
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 10:41:25 AM by jmbejdl »
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 11:04:07 AM »
The answer, might I suggest, is that nobody, no matter how much they claim to, can approach the Bible alone. The question isn't whether you interpret it via a tradition, but which tradition to use - the 2000 year old Holy Tradition of the Church or the much more recent traditions of the Protestants.


And there you have it!

(Bravo, James!)
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Offline Azul

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 04:29:08 PM »
we venerate Mary because she is the archetype for the Church and the archetype of human effort.. Christ was God-Man, divine-human, but Mary is only human and she represents the human effort to meet God.. God met in Mary which resulted in the incarnation.. Mary is the Mother of Jesus, the Incarnated God, the Mother of God.. On account to her motherhood we venerate Mary more than the saints(in that we have more feasts,songs,hymns,and ascribe more honour to her than the saints) because no one else in history had this priviledge to be the Mother of God, of Jesus the Incarnated one..

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 06:02:16 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmWiQ4sJ8A


This video/ The pastor in this video shows how most Protestant Christians view on Virgin Mary. Do you have any comment on it??

Lk. 1:41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

...

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

---

It's very simple, and it's not ambiguous.

He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline Azul

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 02:19:02 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmWiQ4sJ8A


This video/ The pastor in this video shows how most Protestant Christians view on Virgin Mary. Do you have any comment on it??

the one who gave the commandment to honour your parents and who said we should fulfill all righteousness did not honour his mother?in fact it is in relationship with her honouring he performed his first miracle.. tradition says Mary remained a virgin.. the only one whom is called Mary`s child in the bible is Jesus..
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2012, 03:42:31 AM »
Catholic Church believe that Virgin Mary has been rised up to Heaven. Jesus has rewarded her and appointed her as the Queen in the Heaven. It is part of the story in Rosary Prayer. Does Orthodox Churchbelieve this story?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 03:43:27 AM by walter1234 »

Offline Basil 320

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2012, 06:13:02 AM »
Catholic Church believe that Virgin Mary has been rised up to Heaven. Jesus has rewarded her and appointed her as the Queen in the Heaven. It is part of the story in Rosary Prayer. Does Orthodox Churchbelieve this story?

The hymnology of the Orthodox Church discusses the assumption of the Theotokos, the Mother of God, to heaven, but this pious teaching is not dogma, as it is in the Roman Catholic.  Her bodily assumption is not a matter of faith required for belief required for the faithful.  The Orthodox Church commemorates the "Falling Asleep of the the Most Holy Theotokos," on the 15th of August, while the Roman Catholic Church commemorates her bodily "Assumption," which is quite a later day doctrine of the RC Church. 

Orthodoxy does honor her as the "Queen of Heaven." 

The Orthodox Church does not share the rosary practice.  It does have a spiritual practice of repeating the "Jesus Prayer," "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me (a sinner)," accompanied with the use of a "Prayer Rope," a knoted band worn around the wrist.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2012, 07:51:48 AM »
Catholic Church believe that Virgin Mary has been rised up to Heaven. Jesus has rewarded her and appointed her as the Queen in the Heaven. It is part of the story in Rosary Prayer. Does Orthodox Churchbelieve this story?

The hymnology of the Orthodox Church discusses the assumption of the Theotokos, the Mother of God, to heaven, but this pious teaching is not dogma, as it is in the Roman Catholic.  Her bodily assumption is not a matter of faith required for belief required for the faithful.  The Orthodox Church commemorates the "Falling Asleep of the the Most Holy Theotokos," on the 15th of August, while the Roman Catholic Church commemorates her bodily "Assumption," which is quite a later day doctrine of the RC Church.  

Orthodoxy does honor her as the "Queen of Heaven."  

The Orthodox Church does not share the rosary practice.  It does have a spiritual practice of repeating the "Jesus Prayer," "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me (a sinner)," accompanied with the use of a "Prayer Rope," a knoted band worn around the wrist.

Is the position of Virgin Mary really a Queen in Heaven now?

Did Jesus really appoint Virgin Mary as a Queen after she died and went to heaven?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 07:53:11 AM by walter1234 »

Offline mike

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2012, 09:21:05 AM »
The hymnology of the Orthodox Church discusses the assumption of the Theotokos, the Mother of God, to heaven, but this pious teaching is not dogma, as it is in the Roman Catholic.  Her bodily assumption is not a matter of faith required for belief required for the faithful. 

Since it's mentioned in hymnography? I wouldn't be so sure.

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2012, 09:52:15 AM »
Lex orandi, lex credendi.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 09:52:24 AM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2012, 09:56:23 AM »
Catholic Church believe that Virgin Mary has been rised up to Heaven. Jesus has rewarded her and appointed her as the Queen in the Heaven. It is part of the story in Rosary Prayer. Does Orthodox Churchbelieve this story?

The hymnology of the Orthodox Church discusses the assumption of the Theotokos, the Mother of God, to heaven, but this pious teaching is not dogma, as it is in the Roman Catholic.  Her bodily assumption is not a matter of faith required for belief required for the faithful.  The Orthodox Church commemorates the "Falling Asleep of the the Most Holy Theotokos," on the 15th of August, while the Roman Catholic Church commemorates her bodily "Assumption," which is quite a later day doctrine of the RC Church. 

Orthodoxy does honor her as the "Queen of Heaven." 

The Orthodox Church does not share the rosary practice.  It does have a spiritual practice of repeating the "Jesus Prayer," "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me (a sinner)," accompanied with the use of a "Prayer Rope," a knoted band worn around the wrist.

Is the position of Virgin Mary really a Queen in Heaven now?

Did Jesus really appoint Virgin Mary as a Queen after she died and went to heaven?

It's poetic language. Take this quote from St. Cyril of Alexandria for example:

"Hail to Mary, Mother of God,
majestic treasure of the whole world,
the lamp unquenchable, the crown of virginity,
the sceptre of Orthodoxy, the indestructible temple,
the dwelling of the Illimitable,
Mother and Virgin."

You shouldn't take poetic language too seriously. Mary the Theotokos is not literally a sceptre, or a lamp.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 09:58:14 AM by Cyrillic »
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Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2012, 10:58:51 AM »
Catholic Church believe that Virgin Mary has been rised up to Heaven. Jesus has rewarded her and appointed her as the Queen in the Heaven. It is part of the story in Rosary Prayer. Does Orthodox Churchbelieve this story?

The hymnology of the Orthodox Church discusses the assumption of the Theotokos, the Mother of God, to heaven, but this pious teaching is not dogma, as it is in the Roman Catholic.  Her bodily assumption is not a matter of faith required for belief required for the faithful.  The Orthodox Church commemorates the "Falling Asleep of the the Most Holy Theotokos," on the 15th of August, while the Roman Catholic Church commemorates her bodily "Assumption," which is quite a later day doctrine of the RC Church.  

Orthodoxy does honor her as the "Queen of Heaven."  

The Orthodox Church does not share the rosary practice.  It does have a spiritual practice of repeating the "Jesus Prayer," "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me (a sinner)," accompanied with the use of a "Prayer Rope," a knoted band worn around the wrist.

Is the position of Virgin Mary really a Queen in Heaven now?

Did Jesus really appoint Virgin Mary as a Queen after she died and went to heaven?

It's poetic language. Take this quote from St. Cyril of Alexandria for example:

"Hail to Mary, Mother of God,
majestic treasure of the whole world,
the lamp unquenchable, the crown of virginity,
the sceptre of Orthodoxy, the indestructible temple,
the dwelling of the Illimitable,
Mother and Virgin."

You shouldn't take poetic language too seriously. Mary the Theotokos is not literally a sceptre, or a lamp.

This is more sensible. Catholic Christians take this poetic langauage too serious. They believe that God has really appointed Virgin Mary as a  "Real" Queen in Heaven. They even take this as their doctrine and put this in the rosary prayer.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 11:01:06 AM by walter1234 »

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2012, 11:02:03 AM »
Theotokos it the Queen of Heaven. Period. Truly.

Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2012, 12:17:18 PM »
Jesus is king in Heaven now. And Virgin Mary is queen of heaven now.  The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.

This title(e.g Queen of Heaven) seems give too much honours to Virigin Mary. Isn't it?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:18:13 PM by walter1234 »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2012, 12:33:23 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2012, 12:35:08 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.

One is King in Heaven while the other one is also the Queen in heaven....  Their position in heaven is very similar and very high and very close to each other ... ???

How do Orthodox Christian understand this titile of Virgin Mary,e.g. "Queen in Heaven" ?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:38:09 PM by walter1234 »

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2012, 12:44:30 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.

One is King in Heaven while the other one is also the Queen in heaven....  Their position in heaven is very similar and very high and very close to each other ... ???


Well, no. In the Davidic kingdom the queen mother was called queen too. Of course, the king was infinitely more powerful. In this context this must be seen.
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
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Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2012, 12:49:18 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.

One is King in Heaven while the other one is also the Queen in heaven....  Their position in heaven is very similar and very high and very close to each other ... ???


Well, no. In the Davidic kingdom the queen mother was called queen too. Of course, the king was infinitely more powerful. In this context this must be seen.

Except God, is Virgin Mary more powerful than everybody else, include angels, saints, etc in Heaven ?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:49:41 PM by walter1234 »

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2012, 12:51:42 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.

One is King in Heaven while the other one is also the Queen in heaven....  Their position in heaven is very similar and very high and very close to each other ... ???


Well, no. In the Davidic kingdom the queen mother was called queen too. Of course, the king was infinitely more powerful. In this context this must be seen.

Except God, is Virgin Mary more powerful than everybody else, include angels, saints, etc in Heaven ?

Yes.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2012, 12:56:02 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.

One is King in Heaven while the other one is also the Queen in heaven....  Their position in heaven is very similar and very high and very close to each other ... ???


Well, no. In the Davidic kingdom the queen mother was called queen too. Of course, the king was infinitely more powerful. In this context this must be seen.

Except God, is Virgin Mary more powerful than everybody else, include angels, saints, etc in Heaven ?

Yes.

How can we know God has appointed Virgin Mary as the Queen in Heaven?

It is not recorded in bible. It is the issue which happened in Heaven / spirit world, not in earth. We could not evem see this issue when it happened . How can we know God really appointed Virgin Mary as Queen in Heaven?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:57:08 PM by walter1234 »

Offline walter1234

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2012, 01:37:26 PM »
God appoint virgin Mary as Queen.
THis is an issue which is not recorded in bible and  happened in spiritual world.And How can we know this is not a stuff which was imagined by men , but a REAL issue?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 01:39:21 PM by walter1234 »

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2012, 02:27:09 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.

One is King in Heaven while the other one is also the Queen in heaven....  Their position in heaven is very similar and very high and very close to each other ... ???


Well, no. In the Davidic kingdom the queen mother was called queen too. Of course, the king was infinitely more powerful. In this context this must be seen.

Except God, is Virgin Mary more powerful than everybody else, include angels, saints, etc in Heaven ?

Yes.

How can we know God has appointed Virgin Mary as the Queen in Heaven?

It is not recorded in bible. It is the issue which happened in Heaven / spirit world, not in earth. We could not evem see this issue when it happened . How can we know God really appointed Virgin Mary as Queen in Heaven?
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Offline Azul

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2012, 04:00:10 PM »
The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.



Well, no.

One is King in Heaven while the other one is also the Queen in heaven....  Their position in heaven is very similar and very high and very close to each other ... ???


Well, no. In the Davidic kingdom the queen mother was called queen too. Of course, the king was infinitely more powerful. In this context this must be seen.

Except God, is Virgin Mary more powerful than everybody else, include angels, saints, etc in Heaven ?

Yes.

How can we know God has appointed Virgin Mary as the Queen in Heaven?

It is not recorded in bible. It is the issue which happened in Heaven / spirit world, not in earth. We could not evem see this issue when it happened . How can we know God really appointed Virgin Mary as Queen in Heaven?

did you heard of figures of speech?
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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2012, 04:07:35 PM »
Jesus is king in Heaven now. And Virgin Mary is queen of heaven now.  The position of Virgin Mary in Heaven is as the same as/ quite close to Jesus. It also implied they are ruling the Heaven and control every issues together.

This title(e.g Queen of Heaven) seems give too much honours to Virigin Mary. Isn't it?

Only if/when it is overemphasized.

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2012, 04:12:54 PM »
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but I always thought of the Virgin Mary as being like the Queen Mother in England. (When there is a QM alive, that is.) She isn't the queen, she's not ruling or in charge of the country, but she has special honor because the queen is her child. Similarly, the Virgin Mary in no way takes the place of Jesus, but how could we not love Jesus' mother?  :)
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Offline Melodist

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2012, 05:02:30 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmWiQ4sJ8A

This video/ The pastor in this video shows how most Protestant Christians view on Virgin Mary. Do you have any comment on it??

He implies that the one who "does the will of the Father" somehow excludes Mary, even though she showed a great devotion to doing the will of the Father. This passage isn't meant to bring Mary down, but to give us the hope that we can be accepted and adopted as Christ's family by doing the will of the Father.

Also, he outright says that Jesus called Mary "woman" as a means of ditancing Himself from her when he is atually making a reference to Genesis 3:15 and Mary's role in our salvation (yes I said it, but biblically speaking, anyone can play a role in the salvation of others without negating Christ as savior) as the "woman" whose seed would bruise the serpent's head.

He basically gave the opposite of what is actually meant in those two passages of scripture.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Offline Melodist

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2012, 05:08:03 PM »
The queens in the OT were the mother of the King. Christ is our King. His Mother is our Queen. Mary was chosen to be Queen when she was chosen to be the Mother of the King.

How can we know God has appointed Virgin Mary as the Queen in Heaven?

The annunciation.

Quote
It is not recorded in bible.

The annunciation.

Quote
How can we know God really appointed Virgin Mary as Queen in Heaven?

The annunciation.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2012, 05:34:55 PM »
What is the source of Mary being called "Queen?"  I saw the word in Orthros this morning, but I never knew the source.

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2012, 06:03:59 PM »
Quote
It is not recorded in bible. It is the issue which happened in Heaven / spirit world, not in earth. We could not evem see this issue when it happened . How can we know God really appointed Virgin Mary as Queen in Heaven?

From Luke ch 1:

26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”

29 But when she saw him,[d] she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.

34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible.”

38 Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

39 Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.”
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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2012, 06:17:23 PM »
After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, in the time of King Herod, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem saying, “Where is the one who is born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” ... As they came into the house and saw the child with Mary his mother, they bowed down and worshiped him. They opened their treasure boxes and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. (Matthew 2:1-2, 11)
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Offline Delphine

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2012, 06:27:49 PM »
Father Gregory Hallam touched on this in his Dormition homily this year:

Quote
As followers of Jesus Christ, we are promised that we also shall all be deified, achieving the likeness as well as the image of God, and receive Resurrection bodies (though for most of us all this will happen beyond this life). The Mother of God is therefore our example and inspiration. She is the first to receive her crown of glory as Queen in heaven, but no less shall we with her be kings and queens also by the saving work of God.

Fr. Gregory seems to have an understanding of "Queen" beyond "Queen Mother".  Thoughts? Is Mary the Queen of Heaven, or is this a title attainable to all? Or both?

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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2012, 06:56:34 PM »
Father Gregory Hallam touched on this in his Dormition homily this year:

Quote
As followers of Jesus Christ, we are promised that we also shall all be deified, achieving the likeness as well as the image of God, and receive Resurrection bodies (though for most of us all this will happen beyond this life). The Mother of God is therefore our example and inspiration. She is the first to receive her crown of glory as Queen in heaven, but no less shall we with her be kings and queens also by the saving work of God.

Fr. Gregory seems to have an understanding of "Queen" beyond "Queen Mother".  Thoughts? Is Mary the Queen of Heaven, or is this a title attainable to all? Or both?

It seems to me that, in Israel in David's time, "queen" meant "queen mother" (i.e. mother of the king).
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Re: the roles of mary in orthodox church??
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2012, 07:08:41 PM »
Walter,

The Most Holy Theotokos is the Mother of God, who is the King of Heaven. By virtue of being his mother, she is the queen. She is the first Christian, the first to believe in her own Son for her salvation. She is His mother. Why would she not have a special place in His heart?

The Church celebrates the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos on August 15th. The hymns on this day teach us that the Theotokos died a natural death, and was assumed into Heaven by her Son, in the body (i.e., she has attained the Resurrection, no one else...save Christ...has done so). Tradition tells us she appears to the Apostles, after they find her body to be missing from the tomb, and tells them what has happened. This Tradition is very old, almost two millennia. She resides in the heavenly realms, with Christ and the saints, and she prays for us, just as the rest of the saints do so.

When we speak of saints "working miracles", we believe that this is so. The saint does work that miracle, but it is only through the grace of God that these people are saints, and as saints they have united themselves to Christ that they would not, nay could not, act without the blessing of God. God gives His saints the grace to work miracles, but the ultimate power is that grace from God. Saints could not be saints, could do nothing, without the power of God. That said, the saints aren't mindless zombies in heaven sent to do God's bidding. They are as you and I, people who love God and neighbor, and desire to help those in need, and they do these miracles themselves, by the grace of God.

You seem to have the very common and very erroneous belief that, for us to believe saints work miracles mean that we devalue God, that we're "stealing" glory from God. But, the Psalmist says, "God is glorified in his saints." The saints are the great cloud of witnesses, the testimony of the salvation of mankind...that though they have died, they are alive in Christ and we, as members of the Church through Christ have communion with these saints that also are in the Christ. It is the chief end of any Orthodox Christian to be what the saints are. They are our examples, not our exceptions. The same goes for the Most Holy Mother of God.
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