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Author Topic: Ohio priest arrested, charged with trying to meet children for sex  (Read 5621 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2012, 09:54:47 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

Attempting to solicit sex from minors doesn't deserve jail time??? Seriously???
No, when you don't talk to an actual minor. Some other penalty or whatever. But 6 years in prison is way over the top.
Reminds me of a joke, during Stalin's purges two convicts meet: One got 10 years another 5. The one that got 5 years says: I only got 5 because I didn't do anything, what did you do to get 10?
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« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2012, 01:57:02 AM »

Metropolitan Savas celebrated the Sacrament of Holy Unction, the sacrament of healing, for the Columbus faithful in the Cathedral this week.
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« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2012, 02:17:06 AM »

"10tv.com", WBNS TV 10, Columbus, Ohio, has a video report of Fr. Nicholas' sentencing in the Common Pleas Court of Franklin County, he having pleaded guilty.  The judge ordered a 6 year prison term, nearly as much on probation thereafter.  Fr. Nicholas quotes from scripture, "Scandals will come, but woe be on the people that they come by."  The reporter notes that the Archdiocese of America stated that the Metropolis of Pittsburgh will convene  a Spiritual Court to address Fr. Nicholas' behavior. 
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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2012, 08:01:36 AM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.
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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2012, 08:48:06 AM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

Attempting to solicit sex from minors doesn't deserve jail time??? Seriously???
No, when you don't talk to an actual minor. Some other penalty or whatever. But 6 years in prison is way over the top.
Reminds me of a joke, during Stalin's purges two convicts meet: One got 10 years another 5. The one that got 5 years says: I only got 5 because I didn't do anything, what did you do to get 10?
You are wrong.  Making an overt attempt with intent to complete the offense, which is what I believe he did, is a crime deserving the sentence he received.  Had he actually completed his attempts, he would be looking at decades.

In respect to his only attempting with no real victim, wives have attempted to hire hit men to murder their husbands, but contacts LE officials instead, making no "real" victim and still been charged.  There is no difference.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 08:51:47 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2012, 08:53:07 AM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.
Indeed, being the reason it's called Crime Prevention.
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« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2012, 09:45:01 AM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.
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« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2012, 10:14:59 AM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes



Oh crap, I've played a lot of GTA as a teenager.  How many attempted murders have I committed???
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« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2012, 10:57:24 AM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
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« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2012, 11:04:15 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

What is really starting to outright embarrass me is the sheer amount apologists for child molestation here, and not just on this thread but others.  Sad

Whether the priest in this instance molested an actual child or not, such were his intentions, and had it been a real kid such probably would have been his actions.  What, are folks suddenly comfortable with priests trolling the internet looking for child victims? Lord have His mercy!!

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes



Oh crap, I've played a lot of GTA as a teenager.  How many attempted murders have I committed???

I played it too, but a lot of Fathers just might suggest that the extreme and gratuitous violence of such entertainment is very negatively influencing on our spiritual development. The difference between violent video games and violent literature/films is that in video games it is a virtual reality, you act out and think and simulate the violence directly, you are not a passive observer.


stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 11:06:40 AM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2012, 05:44:02 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.
If they knowing allowed of facilitated the criminal action, yes.  Penn State.
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« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2012, 05:47:51 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
My guess is, there was an abundance of evidence a which could have resulted in a more severe charge and punishment, so a balance was established for a guilty plea to ensure conviction and a minimal sentence, but I'm only guessing.  I've seen it before.
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« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2012, 05:50:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

What is really starting to outright embarrass me is the sheer amount apologists for child molestation here, and not just on this thread but others.  Sad

Whether the priest in this instance molested an actual child or not, such were his intentions, and had it been a real kid such probably would have been his actions.  What, are folks suddenly comfortable with priests trolling the internet looking for child victims? Lord have His mercy!!

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes



Oh crap, I've played a lot of GTA as a teenager.  How many attempted murders have I committed???

I played it too, but a lot of Fathers just might suggest that the extreme and gratuitous violence of such entertainment is very negatively influencing on our spiritual development. The difference between violent video games and violent literature/films is that in video games it is a virtual reality, you act out and think and simulate the violence directly, you are not a passive observer.


stay blessed,
habte selassie
You are in for a real treat when you hear someone star blaming the child in these cases. 
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« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2012, 06:14:33 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
My guess is, there was an abundance of evidence a which could have resulted in a more severe charge and punishment, so a balance was established for a guilty plea to ensure conviction and a minimal sentence, but I'm only guessing.  I've seen it before.

I wouldn't be too surprised- a hard-drive full of child porn is all that it takes to push the sentencing into the stratosphere. Which could give me more fun of pointing out how much nonsense we have about imaginary things in our legal system if the porn had been Bart or Lisa Simpson renderings  laugh

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

What is really starting to outright embarrass me is the sheer amount apologists for child molestation here, and not just on this thread but others.  Sad


I hope I'm not being seen as an "apologist" for child molestation- just with the facts of this case as they've been presented to us I merely find it funny that someone can legally "attempt" to molest a person who has never existed. Yes, it is disturbing- far more disturbing is that as a parish priest he must have come into contact with numerous REAL children each day.


You are in for a real treat when you hear someone star blaming the child in these cases. 

That would make my day. "It's all the fault of the children. Those sexy, imaginary children, with their wayward non-realness, and tantalizing fantastical nature! Who could blame him? It's like them kids were the stuff that dreams are made of."
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« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2012, 06:21:26 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
My guess is, there was an abundance of evidence a which could have resulted in a more severe charge and punishment, so a balance was established for a guilty plea to ensure conviction and a minimal sentence, but I'm only guessing.  I've seen it before.

I wouldn't be too surprised- a hard-drive full of child porn is all that it takes to push the sentencing into the stratosphere. Which could give me more fun of pointing out how much nonsense we have about imaginary things in our legal system if the porn had been Bart or Lisa Simpson renderings  laugh

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

What is really starting to outright embarrass me is the sheer amount apologists for child molestation here, and not just on this thread but others.  Sad


I hope I'm not being seen as an "apologist" for child molestation- just with the facts of this case as they've been presented to us I merely find it funny that someone can legally "attempt" to molest a person who has never existed. Yes, it is disturbing- far more disturbing is that as a parish priest he must have come into contact with numerous REAL children each day.


You are in for a real treat when you hear someone star blaming the child in these cases.  

That would make my day. "It's all the fault of the children. Those sexy, imaginary children, with their wayward non-realness, and tantalizing fantastical nature! Who could blame him? It's like them kids were the stuff that dreams are made of."
You are having a real problem with connecting the dots on this one.  Let me illuminate you with a little fact.  The USA is not the only nation with these sorts of laws.  In fact, most countries have them.  Probably a good reason if you want to look into it.

It may be useful to also learn the difference between imagery and pornographic imagery, legally speaking.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 06:23:18 PM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2012, 06:24:25 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
Not quite. There are plenty of innocent people that have either plead guilty or no contest to crimes they never committed.

Thank God FormerReformer is here for much needed sanity.
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« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2012, 06:28:31 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
Not quite. There are plenty of innocent people that have either plead guilty or no contest to crimes they never committed.

Thank God FormerReformer is here for much needed sanity.
The first part, I fully agree.  It happens all the time.

The second, no sanity in anything he has said so far.
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« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2012, 07:59:43 PM »

I don't see FormerReformer at all saying that this priest didn't do something horribly wrong.  I agree that there is a certain element of absurdity in the whole thing, BUT I am also grateful that he was arrested.  I pray the time in prison will be a great mercy for him where hopefully he can work out his salvation.

Edit:  And thank God that there were not actual victims in this instance, and I pray that there have not been actual victims in the past.
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« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2012, 08:15:12 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

Surely there is a more appropriate offence on your statute-books? Something along the lines of "commit [X minor offence] with intent to commit [Y major offence]".
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« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2012, 09:09:42 PM »


You are having a real problem with connecting the dots on this one.  Let me illuminate you with a little fact.  The USA is not the only nation with these sorts of laws.  In fact, most countries have them.  Probably a good reason if you want to look into it.

So, because most countries have gone crazy, we should, too? Although, since about WWI it's usually more along the lines of us starting the crazy laws and the rest of the world following suit. Regardless- attempting any physically violent act against a person that does not exist would under any other circumstances constitute insanity.

Quote
It may be useful to also learn the difference between imagery and pornographic imagery, legally speaking.

I'm not sure what in my previous posts would have made you think I didn't know the difference between the two- unless it was the Simpson's reference, in which case I refer you to Rule 34. And yes, in most countries- the US included- cartoon pornographic renderings of an underage character still constitutes as child pornography.

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

Surely there is a more appropriate offence on your statute-books? Something along the lines of "commit [X minor offence] with intent to commit [Y major offence]".

There are- Attempted solicitation of a minor with intent would cover the reported facts of this case.
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« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2012, 09:17:29 PM »


You are having a real problem with connecting the dots on this one.  Let me illuminate you with a little fact.  The USA is not the only nation with these sorts of laws.  In fact, most countries have them.  Probably a good reason if you want to look into it.

So, because most countries have gone crazy, we should, too? Although, since about WWI it's usually more along the lines of us starting the crazy laws and the rest of the world following suit. Regardless- attempting any physically violent act against a person that does not exist would under any other circumstances constitute insanity.

Quote
It may be useful to also learn the difference between imagery and pornographic imagery, legally speaking.

I'm not sure what in my previous posts would have made you think I didn't know the difference between the two- unless it was the Simpson's reference, in which case I refer you to Rule 34. And yes, in most countries- the US included- cartoon pornographic renderings of an underage character still constitutes as child pornography.

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

Surely there is a more appropriate offence on your statute-books? Something along the lines of "commit [X minor offence] with intent to commit [Y major offence]".

There are- Attempted solicitation of a minor with intent would cover the reported facts of this case.

It's ok you don't understand law, but with that lack of understanding you probably should not call it insanity.  You are certainly free to disagree.  I disagree with a lot, but I make sure I know what's its saying first.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 09:19:27 PM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2012, 09:19:27 PM »

Good grief, so Kerdy where was the attempted rape in this case?
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« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2012, 09:31:57 PM »

Good grief, so Kerdy where was the attempted rape in this case?
Any attempt to engage in sexual relations without legal consent is attempted rape.  A minor is unable to provide legal consent to and adult.  He apparently was actively looking for (attempting) someone who fits into the aforementioned details.  

Any more good griefs I can clarify for you?

It's called overt action.  Once that occurs, the crime has been committed.  Let me give you an example.  If you plan a bank robbery down to the finest detail, you have committed no crime.  On e you go and purchase the mask you plan to cover your face, that action constitutes criminal activity.  In fact, if you and a friend plan this and you purchase the mask but he doesnt, he too is guilty of conspiracy to commit the crime. He (the priest) overtly searched for these victims.  Understand?
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« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2012, 09:35:08 PM »

Good grief, so Kerdy where was the attempted rape in this case?
Any attempt to engage in sexual relations without legal consent is attempted rape.  A minor is unable to provide legal consent to and adult.  He apparently was actively looking for (attempting) someone who fits into the aforementioned details. 

Any more good griefs I can clarify for you?
But there was NO attempted rape involved to any such minor. As FR said, "Attempted solicitation of a minor with intent would cover the reported facts of this case."
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« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2012, 09:36:19 PM »

It's ok you don't understand law, but with that lack of understanding you probably should not call it insanity.  You are certainly free to disagree.  I disagree with a lot, but I make sure I know what's its saying first.

I understand law fine for a layman who has had no legal training. And I didn't quite call law "insane"- it is absurd, sometimes, such as when we grant legal rights of personhood to corporations, or some of our laws regarding sex offenses (I'm personally all for the Death Penalty in these cases if it means abolishing the Registry- talk about "cruel and unusual", killing these guys would be kinder!). The only mention of insanity was "attempting any physically violent act against a person that does not exist" which, outside of a sting operation of the nature reported in this article (the police also do this to ensnare spouses in Conspiracy charges by offering to off the husband/wife for a fee then busting when told "go ahead"), would definitely be considered insanity.

Let's put it like this- let's say you see a man in an alley-way humping the heck out of thin air, you walk up and ask him what he's doing doing and he replies "What's it look like, I'm ****ing this goat!" You call the police. Should they arrest him for
(a) Bestiality
(b) Lewd and Lascivious Behavior,
or (c) not arrest him as such but have him committed to a psych ward?
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« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2012, 09:38:57 PM »

Good grief, so Kerdy where was the attempted rape in this case?
Any attempt to engage in sexual relations without legal consent is attempted rape.  A minor is unable to provide legal consent to and adult.  He apparently was actively looking for (attempting) someone who fits into the aforementioned details. 

Any more good griefs I can clarify for you?
But there was NO attempted rape involved to any such minor. As FR said, "Attempted solicitation of a minor with intent would cover the reported facts of this case."
That all depends on the evidence, which we know little about.  Apparently, there was enough for the charge and subsequent prosecution or the judge, at least his attorney, would have raised a big stink.
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« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2012, 09:41:02 PM »

It's ok you don't understand law, but with that lack of understanding you probably should not call it insanity.  You are certainly free to disagree.  I disagree with a lot, but I make sure I know what's its saying first.

I understand law fine for a layman who has had no legal training. And I didn't quite call law "insane"- it is absurd, sometimes, such as when we grant legal rights of personhood to corporations, or some of our laws regarding sex offenses (I'm personally all for the Death Penalty in these cases if it means abolishing the Registry- talk about "cruel and unusual", killing these guys would be kinder!). The only mention of insanity was "attempting any physically violent act against a person that does not exist" which, outside of a sting operation of the nature reported in this article (the police also do this to ensnare spouses in Conspiracy charges by offering to off the husband/wife for a fee then busting when told "go ahead"), would definitely be considered insanity.

Let's put it like this- let's say you see a man in an alley-way humping the heck out of thin air, you walk up and ask him what he's doing doing and he replies "What's it look like, I'm ****ing this goat!" You call the police. Should they arrest him for
(a) Bestiality
(b) Lewd and Lascivious Behavior,
or (c) not arrest him as such but have him committed to a psych ward?

It all depends, but he would be evaluated.  Law is tricky business and sometimes it doesn't make much sense unless you have all the information, which we don't.
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« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2012, 09:41:29 PM »

Good grief, so Kerdy where was the attempted rape in this case?
Any attempt to engage in sexual relations without legal consent is attempted rape.  A minor is unable to provide legal consent to and adult.  He apparently was actively looking for (attempting) someone who fits into the aforementioned details. 

Any more good griefs I can clarify for you?
But there was NO attempted rape involved to any such minor. As FR said, "Attempted solicitation of a minor with intent would cover the reported facts of this case."
That all depends on the evidence, which we know little about.  Apparently, there was enough for the charge and subsequent prosecution or the judge, at least his attorney, would have raised a big stink.
If that is the case, then why are you so adamant about this being attempted rape.
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« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2012, 09:43:44 PM »

It's ok you don't understand law, but with that lack of understanding you probably should not call it insanity.  You are certainly free to disagree.  I disagree with a lot, but I make sure I know what's its saying first.

I understand law fine for a layman who has had no legal training. And I didn't quite call law "insane"- it is absurd, sometimes, such as when we grant legal rights of personhood to corporations, or some of our laws regarding sex offenses (I'm personally all for the Death Penalty in these cases if it means abolishing the Registry- talk about "cruel and unusual", killing these guys would be kinder!). The only mention of insanity was "attempting any physically violent act against a person that does not exist" which, outside of a sting operation of the nature reported in this article (the police also do this to ensnare spouses in Conspiracy charges by offering to off the husband/wife for a fee then busting when told "go ahead"), would definitely be considered insanity.

Let's put it like this- let's say you see a man in an alley-way humping the heck out of thin air, you walk up and ask him what he's doing doing and he replies "What's it look like, I'm ****ing this goat!" You call the police. Should they arrest him for
(a) Bestiality
(b) Lewd and Lascivious Behavior,
or (c) not arrest him as such but have him committed to a psych ward?

If a Joe attempts to pick up a prostitute who is actually a police officer, does he get let go because the prostitute didn't actually exist?  No.  Some people even claim it's entrapment, but that's because they don't understand what entrapment really is.
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« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2012, 09:44:47 PM »

Good grief, so Kerdy where was the attempted rape in this case?
Any attempt to engage in sexual relations without legal consent is attempted rape.  A minor is unable to provide legal consent to and adult.  He apparently was actively looking for (attempting) someone who fits into the aforementioned details. 

Any more good griefs I can clarify for you?
But there was NO attempted rape involved to any such minor. As FR said, "Attempted solicitation of a minor with intent would cover the reported facts of this case."
That all depends on the evidence, which we know little about.  Apparently, there was enough for the charge and subsequent prosecution or the judge, at least his attorney, would have raised a big stink.
If that is the case, then why are you so adamant about this being attempted rape.
I never said it was.  Someone inquired, I explained. 
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« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2012, 09:46:43 PM »

The man had every intention to have sex with minors, and attempted to arrange it, which is a deplorable act and it is illegal in this country. He committed a crime, and deserves to serve time for it. Hopefully his time in jail will bring him to repentance.
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« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2012, 09:50:50 PM »

The man had every intention to have sex with minors, and attempted to arrange it, which is a deplorable act and it is illegal in this country. He committed a crime, and deserves to serve time for it. Hopefully his time in jail will bring him to repentance.
Yes he a comitted a crime of attempted solicitation with intent. However where was the attempted rape though, he didn't attempt rape on anybody and further if there were minors that showed up, whose to say he wouldn't have done anything at all?

Words mean alot in cases such as this.
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« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2012, 09:51:24 PM »

The man had every intention to have sex with minors, and attempted to arrange it, which is a deplorable act and it is illegal in this country. He committed a crime, and deserves to serve time for it. Hopefully his time in jail will bring him to repentance.

Agreed.  Not sure what else can be said/argued in this thread.  

Edit: I guess we can argue about what he's charged with.  Solicitation or what not.  Either way, good riddance.
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« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2012, 09:51:47 PM »

Being charged with something means the suspect has legally been believed to have committed the crime.  Being convicted is an entirely different thing.  Sometimes charges are dropped, sometimes charges are added.  The LE personnel usually charge for the highest offenses and leave out the lesser included offenses.  Then, the prosecutor decides which charges he or she wishes to go forward based off elements of the crime and evidence.

Has he been convicted yet and if so, do we know what that conviction was?
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« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2012, 09:55:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



So, because most countries have gone crazy, we should, too? Although, since about WWI it's usually more along the lines of us starting the crazy laws and the rest of the world following suit. Regardless- attempting any physically violent act against a person that does not exist would under any other circumstances constitute insanity.



I am not quite sure I understand you, I can only hope you mean well. How exactly have other nations gone crazy in enforcing and targeting sexual predators?  Let me explain, nobody is more sympathetic to criminals than myself.  Further, I wholly agree with the Gospel message of Matthew 25 to visit, console, and comfort prisoners, all the more especially the guilty.  However, this does not exonerate their guilt, neither does this sympathy and concern null the need for punishment.  I also firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and I am well aware of the witch-hunts which occur in American legal system and the hundreds of completely and absolutely innocent people doing a lot of time.  A dude in Long Beach just got out after serving 10 years in prison for a rape he never committed, the women completely lied and it finally came out under oath elsewhere and the guy was released.  It is a statistical reality that when people serve more than 5 years in prison, essentially their life if forever destroyed.  However, this priest pleaded guilty.  I am also aware of the pressures which the legal system places on people to take plea bargains, the LA Men's Central Country Jail is quite literally a dungeon, it is the single largest prison-facility in the WORLD, and it is a hell-hole.  The County does this on purpose, to encourage people to take the plea-bargain, because if they fight the case it make take several years, and they will serve the entirety of that process in that same County Jail dungeon.  Again though, in this instance a priest confessed, and considering that child molestation is both the most despicable crime in America and that in prison it is essentially a death sentence by other inmates, I think that in this instance the priest would hardly have fessed up if we was truly innocent.  Wouldn't he have faith in God? Perhaps not if he knew he was guilty Sad

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2012, 09:59:05 PM »

, in this instance a priest confessed, and considering that child molestation is both the most despicable crime in America and that in prison it is essentially a death sentence by other inmates,
All the more reason to fervently pray for his salvation and the inmates show just enough mercy. Punishment in the hands of other inmates is never justifiable IMO.
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« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2012, 10:01:48 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
Not quite. There are plenty of innocent people that have either plead guilty or no contest to crimes they never committed.

Thank God FormerReformer is here for much needed sanity.
Perhaps there are "plenty of people" etc, etc - that is probably true, but in this case that does not mean this priest was/is one of them. IMO, his plea is exactly what it is  - an admission of guilt. Got proof it is not?
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« Reply #82 on: September 28, 2012, 10:02:10 PM »

The man had every intention to have sex with minors, and attempted to arrange it, which is a deplorable act and it is illegal in this country. He committed a crime, and deserves to serve time for it. Hopefully his time in jail will bring him to repentance.
Yes he a comitted a crime of attempted solicitation with intent. However where was the attempted rape though, he didn't attempt rape on anybody and further if there were minors that showed up, whose to say he wouldn't have done anything at all?

Words mean alot in cases such as this.

Lets break this down.  I apologize it it's too graphic, but I'll make every attempt to keep it suitable.

Bob has an interest in and underage girl.  Bob talks to her in the Internet and invites her over.  The police are called by the girls parents and when they arrive at Bobs house they find lemonade he promised spiked with a narcotic which would render the girl defenseless and two glasses filled with the drink, only one with the narcotic.  What do you charge Bob with?  

Things to consider:

He didnt actually give it to her (what if the girl was actually officer Stan on the Internet?)
He had every intention, and admitted, he was going to engage in illegal sexual conduct with the girl.
He made preparations to commit the crime.
He went out of his way to find the girl and seduce her.
He knew she was under age and unable to provide legal consent.
Depending on email and chat room traffic, he may have attempted to elude LE and parents in his discussions.

There are others, so what should he be charged with?  According to some here, it sounds as if perhaps possession of a controlled substance and only the if he didn't have a prescription.  

Let me ask you something else.  Can a husband rape his wife?  If you say yes, what constitutes the rape?  If you say no, why?
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« Reply #83 on: September 28, 2012, 10:03:44 PM »

, in this instance a priest confessed, and considering that child molestation is both the most despicable crime in America and that in prison it is essentially a death sentence by other inmates,
All the more reason to fervently pray for his salvation and the inmates show just enough mercy. Punishment in the hands of other inmates is never justifiable IMO.
He'll probably be placed in "protective custody" where he MIGHT be safe.
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« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2012, 10:06:27 PM »

It's ok you don't understand law, but with that lack of understanding you probably should not call it insanity.  You are certainly free to disagree.  I disagree with a lot, but I make sure I know what's its saying first.

I understand law fine for a layman who has had no legal training. And I didn't quite call law "insane"- it is absurd, sometimes, such as when we grant legal rights of personhood to corporations, or some of our laws regarding sex offenses (I'm personally all for the Death Penalty in these cases if it means abolishing the Registry- talk about "cruel and unusual", killing these guys would be kinder!). The only mention of insanity was "attempting any physically violent act against a person that does not exist" which, outside of a sting operation of the nature reported in this article (the police also do this to ensnare spouses in Conspiracy charges by offering to off the husband/wife for a fee then busting when told "go ahead"), would definitely be considered insanity.

Let's put it like this- let's say you see a man in an alley-way humping the heck out of thin air, you walk up and ask him what he's doing doing and he replies "What's it look like, I'm ****ing this goat!" You call the police. Should they arrest him for
(a) Bestiality
(b) Lewd and Lascivious Behavior,
or (c) not arrest him as such but have him committed to a psych ward?

It all depends, but he would be evaluated.  Law is tricky business and sometimes it doesn't make much sense unless you have all the information, which we don't.

I agree we don't have all the information- I'm amused merely on the information we have been given.
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« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2012, 10:06:50 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
Not quite. There are plenty of innocent people that have either plead guilty or no contest to crimes they never committed.

Thank God FormerReformer is here for much needed sanity.
Perhaps there are "plenty of people" etc, etc - that is probably true, but in this case that does not mean this priest was/is one of them. IMO, his plea is exactly what it is  - an admission of guilt. Got proof it is not?
Ever hear of a plea bargain? Just because there is an admission of guilt from the suspect does not inherently conclude that the suspect is actually guilty of the crime. However in the priest's case, what FR was arguing over is the terminology used against the suspect "attempted rape". No such "attempted rape" ever occured, the priest didn't attempt rape on anybody. That is why an attempted solicitation with intent is much better suited for this case.

So that being said, we might as well say he wasn't guilty of attempting rape on anybody.
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« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2012, 10:10:57 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

, in this instance a priest confessed, and considering that child molestation is both the most despicable crime in America and that in prison it is essentially a death sentence by other inmates,
All the more reason to fervently pray for his salvation and the inmates show just enough mercy. Punishment in the hands of other inmates is never justifiable IMO.
He'll probably be placed in "protective custody" where he MIGHT be safe.

From what, the guards? Molesting and prison don't mesh well, jailbirds and jailers are generally two sides of the same coin, the Zimbardo Stanford study essentially quantified that.  In that regard then, they tend to think alike on these matters.  Not that I wish such harm on this priest, guilty or not, but such is the situation he faces, and only God can truly help him.

, in this instance a priest confessed, and considering that child molestation is both the most despicable crime in America and that in prison it is essentially a death sentence by other inmates,
All the more reason to fervently pray for his salvation and the inmates show just enough mercy. Punishment in the hands of other inmates is never justifiable IMO.

Was there something in your eye or what? Did you somehow completely over look the first part of that paragraph which you've selectively dislocated? Let me reiterate it for ya before folks get the wrong idea here:


 Let me explain, nobody is more sympathetic to criminals than myself.  Further, I wholly agree with the Gospel message of Matthew 25 to visit, console, and comfort prisoners, all the more especially the guilty. However, this does not exonerate their guilt, neither does this sympathy and concern null the need for punishment. I also firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and I am well aware of the witch-hunts which occur in American legal system and the hundreds of completely and absolutely innocent people doing a lot of time.

I wish no harm to the priest in question, rather just pointing out that with such a risk, I hardly think this priest would have to a plea-bargain unless it was an honest confession of guilt. I will of course pray for this man, fervently at that, but again, my prayers do not exonerate his guilt, and when people confess to such heinous crimes its often not a matter of outside pressure or conspiracy, rather internal compunction.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

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« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2012, 10:13:51 PM »

And here's the fun of the American legal system- one can be guilty of "attempting" a physical act against two purely fictional and imaginary beings.  Roll Eyes


That's kinda disturbing. I do not think he did anything deserving actual jail time.

You would have preferred his victims to have been REAL children?

Somehow the law enforcers can't win. Derided for showing up after a crime has been committed they also criticized for doing what is their best purpose: preventing a crime. Go figure.

Well, can we really call this "attempted rape"? How can one attempt the rape of someone that doesn't exist? "Attempted Solicitation" more fits the bill, and with the Sex Crime laws we have in this country ensures that anyone is punished for the rest of their lives no matter how much jail time is spent.

Honestly, though, I'm just laughing at the legal fictions of our wondrous land. I wonder if it is possible for an imaginary being to charge a corporation (legally a person) with attempted rape.

The guilty plea in this case belies your argument.
Not quite. There are plenty of innocent people that have either plead guilty or no contest to crimes they never committed.

Thank God FormerReformer is here for much needed sanity.
Perhaps there are "plenty of people" etc, etc - that is probably true, but in this case that does not mean this priest was/is one of them. IMO, his plea is exactly what it is  - an admission of guilt. Got proof it is not?
Ever hear of a plea bargain? Just because there is an admission of guilt from the suspect does not inherently conclude that the suspect is actually guilty of the crime. However in the priest's case, what FR was arguing over is the terminology used against the suspect "attempted rape". No such "attempted rape" ever occured, the priest didn't attempt rape on anybody. That is why an attempted solicitation with intent is much better suited for this case.

So that being said, we might as well say he wasn't guilty of attempting rape on anybody.

We still can't say this.  There are too many variables to consider and if there was not enough evidence, I can't imagine why he would be charged and arrested for the crime.  

If I try to punch you in the head but miss and you never knew I tried, it's still assault.  Same thing.  But again, it all depends on the evidence and the local/state laws.
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« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2012, 10:14:59 PM »

Habte, I was in no way accusing you of wishing harm on the priest. We agree on this. I have no problem with him being punished (a misjudgement on my part on a different case that was posted here, thanks to akimori for helping me see clearly) but not from the cellmates. In the end, we agree.
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« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2012, 10:17:04 PM »

The man had every intention to have sex with minors, and attempted to arrange it, which is a deplorable act and it is illegal in this country. He committed a crime, and deserves to serve time for it. Hopefully his time in jail will bring him to repentance.
Yes he a comitted a crime of attempted solicitation with intent. However where was the attempted rape though, he didn't attempt rape on anybody and further if there were minors that showed up, whose to say he wouldn't have done anything at all?

Words mean alot in cases such as this.

There was no attempted rape. But he wanted to have sex with young children and attempted to do so, which is almost as disgusting in my opinion.
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