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walter1234
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« on: September 21, 2012, 04:48:59 AM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBENowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even shows the people what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures. I also posted some of these testimonies here. Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment. All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people....... What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ?
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 05:13:27 AM by walter1234 »
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jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 05:18:31 AM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBENowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even shows the people what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures. I also posted some of these testimonies here. Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment. All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people....... What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ? Well I'm pretty certain they're rubbish though I certainly don't claim to speak for any other Orthodox Christians. My suspicions are instantly aroused by any talk of those in hell being tortured by demons. That's some weird folk idea of Christianity with no basis I can see in either Scripture or Tradition. The demons are in opposition to God and destined to be thrown into the lake of fire as a result - they certainly don't act as God's jailers/torturers. James |
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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
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walter1234
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 09:32:52 AM » |
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Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 09:34:25 AM by walter1234 »
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jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 09:43:08 AM » |
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Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??
I wouldn't like to judge in any particular case. Any or or all of your suggestions are possible. If Satan can come as an angel of light, he can certainly manage an illusion of hell, but they could just as easily be imaginary or dreams. They could also, undoubtedly be lies in some cases. When I see some of the abuses of others' faith and especially preying on fear, that some use to aggrandise and enrich themselves, and I'm thinking here, for example, of the likes of certain preachers in Nigeria, I'm afraid to say that I imagine lying about such things is far from unlikely, given that they make themselves rich off the hopes and fears of their flocks. James |
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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
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genesisone
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 11:17:36 AM » |
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I quickly came to appreciate the Orthodox emphasis that salvation is about transformation beginning in and with this life. My fears and concerns about the afterlife are minimal. Evangelical Protestantism, IMHO, puts too much emphasis on death and on what follows it. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Matthew 6:33-34, NKJV |
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podkarpatska
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 11:49:54 AM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBENowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even shows the people what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures. I also posted some of these testimonies here. Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment. All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people....... What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ? Well I'm pretty certain they're rubbish though I certainly don't claim to speak for any other Orthodox Christians. My suspicions are instantly aroused by any talk of those in hell being tortured by demons. That's some weird folk idea of Christianity with no basis I can see in either Scripture or Tradition. The demons are in opposition to God and destined to be thrown into the lake of fire as a result - they certainly don't act as God's jailers/torturers. James I suspect that some got that idea from reading Harry Potter novels and getting confused by the author's Dementors..... When one's theology is based on a series of cheesy novels like the Left Behind series one can see where the confusion could arise...  |
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Azul
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 02:14:56 PM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBENowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even shows the people what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures. I also posted some of these testimonies here. Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment. All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people....... What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ? I am Orthodox and I think i had a similar "visitation" a few years ago... It felt like a dream but for some reason i had difficulties waking up.. I was in darkness in a prison with what i believe it to be a demon.. I was tortured by that demon untill i called repentance and the Lord.. Than I saw multiple paths all heading to a fire.. I did not experience this fire.. but saw it as in the middle of many caves... That's about all there is... |
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Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
Mahatma Gandhi
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walter1234
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 02:41:19 PM » |
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Except these five 'hell visitation ' testimonies, there are still a lot of similar testimonies and the related books, videos, pictures, etc. I just list five of them here!! This becomes more and more popular in Protestant!!! |
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 02:46:45 PM by walter1234 »
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 02:56:41 PM » |
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Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??
Most of it? Porn for pharisees. |
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Nathanael
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 03:04:12 PM » |
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Dear Walter
I recommend to you to read this Book:
The Soul after Death: Contemporary "After-Death" Experiences in the Light of the Orthodox Teaching on the Afterlife
by Seraphim Rose
It will help to find an answer.
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The helping of others, the giving of alms, and all external goods don’t calm the arrogance of the heart. Humility of the mind, the pain of repentence and the breaking of the will, however, humble the proud spirit. -Elder Joseph the Hesychast
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Achronos
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 03:06:48 PM » |
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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TristanCross
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2012, 03:23:28 PM » |
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That's the one I saw. Don't know why my post got deleted though :/ |
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 03:52:28 PM by TristanCross »
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"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
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Gentleman
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He hangeth earth upon nothing (Job 26:7)
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 03:47:33 PM » |
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Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.
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I am looking for buddies to play chess with through Skype. If you are interested please send me a personal message.
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TristanCross
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Its ok to eat fish bc they dont have any feelings
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2012, 03:53:56 PM » |
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Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.
Considering how much sin is in this world and how far the world is from God, I'd say we are pretty much living in hell. |
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"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2012, 03:54:17 PM » |
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Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.
Considering how much sin is in this world and how far the world is from God, I'd say we are pretty much living in hell. It could be alot worse dude. |
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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TristanCross
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Its ok to eat fish bc they dont have any feelings
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2012, 04:32:39 PM » |
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Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.
Considering how much sin is in this world and how far the world is from God, I'd say we are pretty much living in hell. It could be alot worse dude. Of course. But if we remember the fact that hell isn't some place in la-la land, but is the state of being outside of communion with God, then we can easily say that we live in hell. What is Heaven for believers is Hell for unbelievers. For instance: when we go to Liturgy, Christ brings us up to Heaven. The Liturgy is Heaven on Earth because we are in full communion with God. When we are outside of communion with God, we are essentially in Hell. |
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:33:36 PM by TristanCross »
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"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
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Jetavan
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2012, 06:08:47 PM » |
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On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death. |
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 06:09:14 PM by Jetavan »
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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TristanCross
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2012, 06:51:03 PM » |
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One could say that these Protestants are being shown their future  |
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"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2012, 07:12:13 PM » |
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Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??
Perhaps they're based on experience. Having experienced several Protestant services, I confess I couldn't figure out if I was on earth or in hell. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2012, 07:14:50 PM » |
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On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death. Has Mr. Makrides abandoned his weirdness? Why is he on AFR? |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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walter1234
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2012, 08:48:52 AM » |
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Should I aviod to see and listen all these hell-visitation testimonies as well as its related pictures, videos and books??
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« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 08:49:18 AM by walter1234 »
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Jetavan
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2012, 08:56:56 AM » |
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On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death. Has Mr. Makrides abandoned his weirdness? Why is he on AFR? What weirdness would that be? |
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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Ansgar
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Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2012, 09:34:41 AM » |
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Should I aviod to see and listen all these hell-visitation testimonies as well as its related pictures, videos and books??
Well, if they have a negative effect on you, I think you should. |
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Christ is risen!
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.
-St Silouan the athonite
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2012, 01:59:16 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBENowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even shows the people what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures. I also posted some of these testimonies here. Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment. All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people....... What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ? (A) If folks are still existing in any way, then God has not abandoned them because we are not self-existing or self-sustaining creatures, even as spirits every nano-second of our existence requires the Life-Giver of God to give us that moment of existence, so even if in hell, God has not abandoned anyone, including the devils and demons who are also still existing. If anything, to continue to allow for the existence of evil is all the more a manifestation of God's love and compassion, because it could be worse for them, they could simply stop existing all together. (b) Anyone who is divorced from the Divine Mysteries is already living in Hell, period. Whatever books they right or dreams they have or visions they profess to see are merely more elaborated visions of their already daily realities. Simply put, a mega-church in Texas or or a small Baptist Church in Texarkansas is just as much in Hell as Hitler or Diocletian because Hell is to be separated from the active Grace of God. That being said, we should all the more pray for these kind folks, that God brings them into a Sacramental relationship with Him and therefore also us as the Body of Christ. stay blessed, Habte Selassie |
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« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 02:19:18 PM by HabteSelassie »
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2012, 12:21:36 AM » |
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On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death. Has Mr. Makrides abandoned his weirdness? Why is he on AFR? What weirdness would that be? He was into Hindooism, etc. He's not a spokesman of Orthodoxy, he's only written a couple books interviewing Orthodox persons. You have to take what the Orthodox person says, and leave what is Makrides otherwise you get a muddle of Orthodoxy and not. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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pmpn8rGPT
我不會說中國話
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יהוה יעזור לנו
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2012, 01:50:46 PM » |
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I'm sure most are garbage and anyone who makes money off of a book is a false prophet but I'm not a cessationist so I'm sure some are genuine. It's important to remember that no matter how bad it is, God doesn't want us there and it's always about Christ. Things like this aren't worth an Orthodox Christian's time as we should be more focused on NOT GOING to hell not HOW BAD hell is... Just my thoughts
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טוֹב, לַחֲסוֹת בַּיהוָה-- מִבְּטֹחַ, בָּאָדָם.
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Sinful Hypocrite
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Greek Orthodox-Chicago area
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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2012, 08:57:34 PM » |
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I have been woken while sleepwalking, and this has happened more than once, but that is what hell is like , these visions haunt me afterwards for years. The last time it happened was 6 years ago, but the first tiome is about 26 years, and they are horrific visions.
They are very hard to explain , surreal yet exactly the same every time, the horror of it haunts me enough that I think about it often.
Never wake a sleepwalker!
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 09:03:03 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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The lord gathers his sheep, I am the Goat. Lord have mercy
Everyday I am critical of others. Every day I make similar mistakes. Every day I am a hypocrite.
John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how
then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things
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TITL
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2012, 09:08:19 PM » |
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My priest asked me to read this book and give him a review (he wanted to advertise it to some people, but tested it by me first). It was so wrong; I didn't even know where to start. |
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Knee V
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 208
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2012, 12:21:30 AM » |
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Error is subtle and seductive. If it weren't, no one would follow it.
Generally speaking, it is best not to dwell on error, even if trying to disprove or debunk it, especially if our discernment is not sharp nor informed by a great deal of experience. The more we dwell on error, the more we let those errors saturate us and form our development, even if we don't realize that it is happening. And the more subtle the error, the more it can penetrate our lives if we are not watchful.
Certainly take your priest's advice over mine if the two conflict, but I would recommend not even bothering with those books or delving into what heterodox/heretical groups think about the afterlife or what they have to say about personal revelations about hell and the demons. It can't be helpful, and you run the risk of it being harmful.
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2012, 03:59:57 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus CHrist! Error is subtle and seductive. If it weren't, no one would follow it.
I agree, theologically speaking, error is human. This is not in the Catholic sense of a spiritual corruption to human nature by essence from Sin. No, our nature is in tact as God created us, it has the same potentiality for Grace and Sin that it always had. By error is human I mean in the sense of manifesting our own individual, selfish, free-will as compared to embracing the outside Will of God. The be human is to have free-will, this is the core of our existence, even at a subtly spiritual level. God however, does not FORCE us to follow His Will, through love and embrace we are to learn to adjust our own will towards His own. However, as demonstrated by our own human relationships and interactions with each other, getting two human beings on the same page at any level is generally impossible. Even when we work together, it is rarely for the same reasons. Even if we agree, there are always shades of grey to debate. We are more so convinced to syncretically blend our wills, but not necessarily having fully changed our own wills. This is the error of not following God's Will. God's Will is the Church, and our will is ourselves. It is therefore naturally easier to follow our own will and fall into heresies because these conform not to Divine Will, but pander and posture towards the human ego. We are inflated and puffed up by heresies, we feel a false sense of empowerment because we are manifesting our own will. Even in the Church, folks make this same error. We don't fast, we don't celebrate the Divine Liturgy, we weren't Baptized out of our own sense of free-will, rather we yield to God in these matters precisely to change our will and learn to put our faith and trust in His. Heresies do the opposite, they are human errors which then to humans naturally don't feel like errors at all, they feel like empowering truths because they empower the very selfish core of our experience, the ego and the inward self. God is challenging us to embrace Him and abandon ourselves to His Will, hence the prayer, "Thy Will be done." Heresies are the flip side to that prayer, manifestations of, "Whatever the consequences our own wills be done." stay blessed, habte selassie |
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« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 04:01:13 PM by HabteSelassie »
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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