OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 22, 2014, 08:53:44 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: More and more Protestant Chrisitian claim God has brought them to visit hell...  (Read 1552 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
walter1234
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 928


« on: September 21, 2012, 04:48:59 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBE


Nowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about  their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even  shows the people  what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures.  I also posted some of these testimonies here.

Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment.

All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people.......

What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 05:13:27 AM by walter1234 » Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 05:18:31 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBE


Nowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about  their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even  shows the people  what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures.  I also posted some of these testimonies here.

Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment.

All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people.......

What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ?

Well I'm pretty certain they're rubbish though I certainly don't claim to speak for any other Orthodox Christians. My suspicions are instantly aroused by any talk of those in hell being tortured by demons. That's some weird folk idea of Christianity with no basis I can see in either Scripture or Tradition. The demons are in opposition to God and destined to be thrown into the lake of fire as a result - they certainly don't act as God's jailers/torturers.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
walter1234
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 928


« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 09:32:52 AM »

Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 09:34:25 AM by walter1234 » Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 09:43:08 AM »

Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??

I wouldn't like to judge in any particular case. Any or or all of your suggestions are possible. If Satan can come as an angel of light, he can certainly manage an illusion of hell, but they could just as easily be imaginary or dreams. They could also, undoubtedly be lies in some cases. When I see some of the abuses of others' faith and especially preying on fear, that some use to aggrandise and enrich themselves, and I'm thinking here, for example, of the likes of certain preachers in Nigeria, I'm afraid to say that I imagine lying about such things is far from unlikely, given that they make themselves rich off the hopes and fears of their flocks.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,505



« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 11:17:36 AM »

I quickly came to appreciate the Orthodox emphasis that salvation is about transformation beginning in and with this life. My fears and concerns about the afterlife are minimal. Evangelical Protestantism, IMHO, puts too much emphasis on death and on what follows it.

Quote
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Matthew 6:33-34, NKJV
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,586


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 11:49:54 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBE


Nowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about  their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even  shows the people  what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures.  I also posted some of these testimonies here.

Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment.

All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people.......

What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ?

Well I'm pretty certain they're rubbish though I certainly don't claim to speak for any other Orthodox Christians. My suspicions are instantly aroused by any talk of those in hell being tortured by demons. That's some weird folk idea of Christianity with no basis I can see in either Scripture or Tradition. The demons are in opposition to God and destined to be thrown into the lake of fire as a result - they certainly don't act as God's jailers/torturers.

James

I suspect that some got that idea from reading Harry Potter novels and getting confused by the author's Dementors..... When one's theology is based on a series of cheesy novels like the Left Behind series one can see where the confusion could arise...  Wink
Logged
Azul
Moderated
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Român Ortodox
Jurisdiction: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 988



« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 02:14:56 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBE


Nowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about  their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even  shows the people  what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures.  I also posted some of these testimonies here.

Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment.

All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people.......

What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ?

I am Orthodox and I think i had a similar "visitation" a few years ago... It felt like a dream but for some reason i had difficulties waking up.. I was in darkness in a prison with what i believe it to be a demon.. I was tortured by that demon untill i called repentance and the Lord.. Than I saw multiple paths all heading to a fire.. I did not experience this fire.. but saw it as in the middle of many caves... That's about all there is...
Logged

Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
Mahatma Gandhi
walter1234
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 928


« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 02:41:19 PM »



Except these five 'hell visitation ' testimonies, there are still a lot of similar testimonies and the related books, videos, pictures, etc. I just list five of them here!!

This becomes more and more popular in Protestant!!!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 02:46:45 PM by walter1234 » Logged
NicholasMyra
Avowed denominationalist
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 5,971


When in doubt, say: "you lack the proper φρόνημα"


« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 02:56:41 PM »

Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??

Most of it? Porn for pharisees.
Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
Nathanael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 204



« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 03:04:12 PM »

Dear Walter

I recommend to you to read this Book:
The Soul after Death: Contemporary "After-Death" Experiences in the Light of the Orthodox Teaching on the Afterlife
by Seraphim Rose

It will help to find an answer.
Logged

"Orthodoxy is the very nature of man" - Father Rafail Noica
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 03:06:48 PM »

Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
TristanCross
Chief Of Sinners
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Posts: 348


Romans 10:9-10


« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2012, 03:23:28 PM »



That's the one I saw. Don't know why my post got deleted though :/
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 03:52:28 PM by TristanCross » Logged

"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
Gentleman
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian (Orthodox)
Jurisdiction: Moskow
Posts: 144


Manners maketh man


« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 03:47:33 PM »

Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.
Logged

I pray Thee, O Merciful Lord, for all the peoples of the earth, that they may come to know Thee by Thy Holy Spirit.

www.journeytoorthodoxy.com/
TristanCross
Chief Of Sinners
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Posts: 348


Romans 10:9-10


« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2012, 03:53:56 PM »

Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.

Considering how much sin is in this world and how far the world is from God, I'd say we are pretty much living in hell.
Logged

"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2012, 03:54:17 PM »

Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.

Considering how much sin is in this world and how far the world is from God, I'd say we are pretty much living in hell.
It could be alot worse dude.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
TristanCross
Chief Of Sinners
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Posts: 348


Romans 10:9-10


« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2012, 04:32:39 PM »

Whether these testimonies are true or false, one thing is certain for me: the hell is real, and its torments are beyond any measure unbearable; it is not given to most of us on earth to see it. May God save all of us, let's pray brothers.

Considering how much sin is in this world and how far the world is from God, I'd say we are pretty much living in hell.
It could be alot worse dude.

Of course. But if we remember the fact that hell isn't some place in la-la land, but is the state of being outside of communion with God, then we can easily say that we live in hell. What is Heaven for believers is Hell for unbelievers. For instance: when we go to Liturgy, Christ brings us up to Heaven. The Liturgy is Heaven on Earth because we are in full communion with God. When we are outside of communion with God, we are essentially in Hell.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:33:36 PM by TristanCross » Logged

"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2012, 06:08:47 PM »

On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 06:09:14 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
TristanCross
Chief Of Sinners
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Posts: 348


Romans 10:9-10


« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2012, 06:51:03 PM »

One could say that these Protestants are being shown their future Tongue
Logged

"Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor. "
— St. John Chrysostom
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2012, 07:12:13 PM »

Are all these testimonies just the imaginations or illusions, or are they come from Satan or devils,or are the people who share the ' hell visitation testimony' telling lies??

Perhaps they're based on experience. Having experienced several Protestant services, I confess I couldn't figure out if I was on earth or in hell.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2012, 07:14:50 PM »

On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death.

Has Mr. Makrides abandoned his weirdness? Why is he on AFR?
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
walter1234
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 928


« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2012, 08:48:52 AM »

Should I aviod to see and listen all these hell-visitation testimonies as well as its related pictures, videos and books??
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 08:49:18 AM by walter1234 » Logged
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,515


Cyrillico est imperare orbi universo


« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2012, 08:52:25 AM »

Maybe the Evangelicals are getting a little foretaste of what's waiting for them

 Grin
Logged

"And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin
is pride that apes humility."
-Samuel Coleridge
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2012, 08:56:56 AM »

On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death.

Has Mr. Makrides abandoned his weirdness? Why is he on AFR?
What weirdness would that be?
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Ansgar
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 2,988


Keep your mind in hell and do not despair


« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2012, 09:34:41 AM »

Should I aviod to see and listen all these hell-visitation testimonies as well as its related pictures, videos and books??

Well, if they have a negative effect on you, I think you should.
Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2012, 01:59:16 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvkNFPWIoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yoS6FBtxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrTfyM-hbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJdNUSXwEaA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WexriDwxBE


Nowadays , more and more Protestant Christians claim that God has led them to visit the hell . Then, they came back and wrote the books about  their experience about their visit to hell, preach how horrible the hell is in different church or in youtube.Some even  shows the people  what they saw in hell and how horrible it is by drawing the pictures.  I also posted some of these testimonies here.

Most of the people who claim they have visited the hell said that they saw God abandon the unbelievers to the devils and approve the devils to touture the unbelievers . Most of them also said that they saw the real material fire is prepared to torture the unbelievers and devils in the Final and Great judgment.

All these testimonies and its related books, videos or even pictures become more popular in Protestant. Many Protestant Christians like to watch ,read and discuss them. Some pastors even like to use these 'Hell visitation testimonies' to preach the gospel and scare the people.......

What do the orthodox christians think about these 'Hell visitation testimonies' ?

(A) If folks are still existing in any way, then God has not abandoned them because we are not self-existing or self-sustaining creatures, even as spirits every nano-second of our existence requires the Life-Giver of God to give us that moment of existence, so even if in hell, God has not abandoned anyone, including the devils and demons who are also still existing.  If anything, to continue to allow for the existence of evil is all the more a manifestation of God's love and compassion, because it could be worse for them, they could simply stop existing all together.

(b) Anyone who is divorced from the Divine Mysteries is already living in Hell, period.  Whatever books they right or dreams they have or visions they profess to see are merely more elaborated visions of their already daily realities.  Simply put, a mega-church in Texas or or a small Baptist Church in Texarkansas is just as much in Hell as Hitler or Diocletian because Hell is to be separated from the active Grace of God.

That being said, we should all the more pray for these kind folks, that God brings them into a Sacramental relationship with Him and therefore also us as the Body of Christ.

stay blessed,
Habte Selassie
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 02:19:18 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2012, 12:21:36 AM »

On the most recent Ancient Faith Today, Kyriacos Markides argued out such experiences are not "death" experiences, because the person was not completely dead. As such, they tell us more about the person, than about what really happens after death.

Has Mr. Makrides abandoned his weirdness? Why is he on AFR?
What weirdness would that be?

He was into Hindooism, etc. He's not a spokesman of Orthodoxy, he's only written a couple books interviewing Orthodox persons. You have to take what the Orthodox person says, and leave what is Makrides otherwise you get a muddle of Orthodoxy and not.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
pmpn8rGPT
Grammar Nazi in three languages.
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Eastern Orthodox (old calendarist)
Posts: 1,038


Proof that Russia won the Space Race.


« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2012, 01:50:46 PM »

I'm sure most are garbage and anyone who makes money off of a book is a false prophet but I'm not a cessationist so I'm sure some are genuine.  It's important to remember that no matter how bad it is, God doesn't want us there and it's always about Christ.  Things like this aren't worth an Orthodox Christian's time as we should be more focused on NOT GOING to hell not HOW BAD hell is... Just my thoughts
Logged

"Tomorrow, I shall no longer be here."
-Nostradamus's last words.
Sinful Hypocrite
Everyday I am critical of others. Every day I make similar mistakes. Every day I am a hypocrite.
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: "The Orthodox Church" by Bishop Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not; and so we must refrain from passing judgment on non-Orthodox Christians."
Posts: 1,769


Great googly moogly!


« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2012, 08:57:34 PM »

I have been woken while sleepwalking, and this has happened more than once, but that is what hell is like , these visions haunt me afterwards for years. The last time it happened was 6 years ago, but the first tiome is about 26 years, and they are horrific visions.

They are very hard to explain , surreal yet exactly the same every time, the horror of it haunts me enough that I think about it often.

Never wake a sleepwalker!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 09:03:03 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
TITL
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 105



« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2012, 09:08:19 PM »



My priest asked me to read this book and give him a review (he wanted to advertise it to some people, but tested it by me first).

It was so wrong; I didn't even know where to start.

Logged
Knee V
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 227



« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2012, 12:21:30 AM »

Error is subtle and seductive. If it weren't, no one would follow it.

Generally speaking, it is best not to dwell on error, even if trying to disprove or debunk it, especially if our discernment is not sharp nor informed by a great deal of experience. The more we dwell on error, the more we let those errors saturate us and form our development, even if we don't realize that it is happening. And the more subtle the error, the more it can penetrate our lives if we are not watchful.

Certainly take your priest's advice over mine if the two conflict, but I would recommend not even bothering with those books or delving into what heterodox/heretical groups think about the afterlife or what they have to say about personal revelations about hell and the demons. It can't be helpful, and you run the risk of it being harmful.
Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2012, 03:59:57 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus CHrist!

Error is subtle and seductive. If it weren't, no one would follow it.



I agree, theologically speaking, error is human.  This is not in the Catholic sense of a spiritual corruption to human nature by essence from Sin.  No, our nature is in tact as God created us, it has the same potentiality for Grace and Sin that it always had.  By error is human I mean in the sense of manifesting our own individual, selfish, free-will as compared to embracing the outside Will of God.  The be human is to have free-will, this is the core of our existence, even at a subtly spiritual level.  God however, does not FORCE us to follow His Will, through love and embrace we are to learn to adjust our own will towards His own.  However, as demonstrated by our own human relationships and interactions with each other, getting two human beings on the same page at any level is generally impossible.  Even when we work together, it is rarely for the same reasons.  Even if we agree, there are always shades of grey to debate.  We are more so convinced to syncretically blend our wills, but not necessarily having fully changed our own wills.  This is the error of not following God's Will.  God's Will is the Church, and our will is ourselves.  It is therefore naturally easier to follow our own will and fall into heresies because these conform not to Divine Will, but pander and posture towards the human ego.  We are inflated and puffed up by heresies, we feel a false sense of empowerment because we are manifesting our own will.  Even in the Church, folks make this same error.  We don't fast, we don't celebrate the Divine Liturgy, we weren't Baptized out of our own sense of free-will, rather we yield to God in these matters precisely to change our will and learn to put our faith and trust in His.  Heresies do the opposite, they are human errors which then to humans naturally don't feel like errors at all, they feel like empowering truths because they empower the very selfish core of our experience, the ego and the inward self.  God is challenging us to embrace Him and abandon ourselves to His Will, hence the prayer, "Thy Will be done."  Heresies are the flip side to that prayer, manifestations of, "Whatever the consequences our own wills be done."

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 04:01:13 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.12 seconds with 59 queries.