Your silly assertion was that Saint Augustine is not part of the patristic consensus, not merely that he made some mistakes. The Council simply disproves that and you are dodging that fact. It is not silly, and the council does not disprove what I said. I am really having the impression that you do not understand my words. To be outside the patristic consensus means to hold theological opinions that are different from what the immense majority of the Fathers agreed on. For example on Original Sin. Or do you seriously claim that most Fathers held the Augustinian view?
You asked if any Latin Fathers used "religion" to describe the Christian faith, and I pointed to Saint Augustine's De Vera Religione
. Your response: Augustine is outside the patristic consensus, implying that therefore he doesn't count as a Latin Father and his example is invalid.
But if you can admit that Saint Augustine is a Father of the church we can move on.
Also, why do you persist in the Roman Catholic practice of referring to someone as "blessed" as if that's "less than a saint"? Get thee hence, reprobate Westernizer!Whether he is a saint (in the sense of a model of the faithful and suitable intercessor) is under discussion. I am using the title the Council (don't you like councils?) used in order to refer to him.
So you agree that he is a saint, since "blessed" and "saint" are synonymous in the Orthodox Church. Glad we could clear that up.
No, I'm simply asserting that "Unseen Warfare", as published by Sts. Nicodemus and Theophan, is a legitimate Orthodox work. Imagine your parish bought a Western church building and redecorated it Orthodox. It's an Orthodox church then, but it's still not the same as one built Orthodox to begin with, and it still does have some heterodox feel there. That's what I said about the book. And precisely in such spiritual matters, I do not feel comfortable with that.
My parish church building used to belong to a baptist church. There is no heterodox feel there. Our church is 100% Orthodox and there is no need to demolish the building and put a new building up. What you feel "comfortable" with has nothing to do with what is right.
Saint Basil and other fathers believed we could benefit from pagan writings. Your antipathy toward "the West" is rooted in a modern East/West dichotomy which has nothing to do with traditional Orthodoxy or the fathers.
I do not hate the West (actually, I live in the West, where part of my family came as refugees). I just do not think we should use wrong theology in the Orthodox Church.[/quote]
And you have yet to identify a single element of "wrong theology" in the Orthodox editions of Unseen Warfare
Just as St. Basil could profit from Pagan science or philosophy, we can profit nowadays from scientific research done by non-Orthodox scientists. But in spiritual matters, we have to be careful.
Philosophy is also spiritual. Orthodox spirituality is replete with terminology and concepts borrowed from pagan philosophers, albeit endued with a new meaning. I have no problem with that. I don't feel that Saint Athanasius' On the Incarnation
has a "pagan feel" because it borrows some concepts from Plato.
I just said that Evagrios was condemned by the Church (not by myself), so it is problematic to present his writings as a model for the faithful.
Do you think saints such as St. Nikodemos never did anything controversial or worthy of further discussion?
In collecting some of Evagrios' spiritual texts, Saint Nikodemos was doing nothing which had not already been done by the Desert Fathers you claim to admire, who were deeply influenced by Evagrios (and Origen). So if you have a problem with the inclusion of Evagrios in the Philokalia, take it up with the Desert Fathers, not St. Nikodemos.
Anyway, I just want the Orthodox faith to be pure.
Then stop polluting it with cartoonish east-west dichotomies which come not from the Greek Fathers but from modern pop-theologians who want Orthodoxy to be something exotic or "ontologically" different from the West.
What you are pushing is a bizarre variant of Orientalism.
I love the Greek Fathers, and the Desert Fathers of Egypt. That is Orthodoxy.
That is not all of Orthodoxy. The Latin Fathers are also Orthodox. Your vision of the Church is contrary to its Catholic character.
Why do you want to bring in Bl. Augustine or whatever?
I'm not bringing anything in. Saint Augustine was recognized as a great Father of the Church long before I was born. Saint Augustine is "in", whether you are comfortable with that or not.
Do you know that the church in his homeland, present-day Algeria, became extinct under Islam? Is that the Church, against Hades would not prevail?
You are implying that Saint Augustine was therefore not part of the real Church. I guess the real Church only existed in the East for you, even when it was in full communion with the West. You are piling innovation upon innovation, in the name of sham "purity".
The Eastern Church has also lost quite a bit of territory to Islam, in case you didn't notice.