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Author Topic: What is your impression on your Trinity God??  (Read 1647 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: September 19, 2012, 10:28:20 AM »

I am a new blood in this forum. I am a protestant christian who live in Hong Kong now. Recently, I feel interest on the eastern orthodox church. I often listen the teacnings in Ancient faith radio. Eastern orthodox church have totoally difference understanding  of gopsel, wrath, hell, judgment,sin, punishment,etc.


I want to ask a question the eastern orthodox christian here.What is your impression to the Trinity God. I cannot speak for other protestant christian. But For me, God does not give me a good impression.He is a harsh God. He always anger and punish us. We are just saved from his wrath and punishment.  He loves us only If we love him.If we do not love him,  He cannot love us and he will abandon us , punish us, torture us with eternal fire due to his holiness and righteouess. He is not all- love. He sometimes loves us, somethings hate,anger on us due to his righteouness, holiness . He is a father who place more importance on own his glory, holiness name rather than his creations.


As for the eastern orthodox christian here. What is your impression on your God who you worship??
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 10:36:41 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 10:37:29 AM »

I want to ask a question the eastern orthodox christian here.What is your impression to the Trinity God. I cannot speak for other protestant christian. But For me, God does not give me a good impression.He is a harsh God. He always anger and punish us. We are just saved from his wrath and punishment.  He loves us only If we love him.If we do not love him,  He cannot love us and he will abandon us , punish us, torture us with eternal fire due to his holiness and righteouess. He is not all- love. He sometimes loves us, somethings hate,anger on us due to his righteouness, holiness . He is a father who place more importance on own his glory, holiness name rather than his creation.


As for the eastern orthodox christian here. What is your impression on your God who you worship??

I'll leave the theology to others who are more learned in this than I, but the God you describe is not someone that I would want to have anything to do with!
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 10:38:24 AM »

Welcome to the forum
God is love.  The Trinity is the ultimate expression of that love.  
God so loved us that he sent his only begotten son so that we can be reunited to that love.
God needs nothing from us. He wants us to be healed from the corruption that the fall created.

Orthodox believe that man was originally created to be in communion with God. Originally man was made to be the created image of God, to live in union with God's divine life, and to rule over all creation. But through action (use of free will) in a manner contrary to his own nature (which is intrinsically ordered to communion with God), he disrupted that communion. Because of man's refusal to fulfill the "image and likeness of God" within him, corruption and the sickness of sin whose consequence is death entered man's mode of existence.
 
To correct this Jesus was sent into this world. When Jesus came into the world He Himself was Perfect Man and Perfect God united in the divine Hypostasis of the Logos, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Through his assumption of human nature, human existence was restored, enabling human beings, and the fulfilment of creation, through participation in divinity by incorporation into Jesus Christ.

"The Word of God came in His own Person, because it was He alone, the Image of the Father, Who could recreate man made after the Image. In order to effect this re-creation, however, He had first to do away with death and corruption. Therefore He assumed a human body, in order that in it death might once and for all be destroyed, and that men might be renewed according to the Image [of God]." St. Athanasius, On the Incarnation
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 10:50:41 AM »

I am a new blood in this forum. I am a protestant christian who live in Hong Kong now. Recently, I feel interest on the eastern orthodox church. I often listen the teacnings in Ancient faith radio. Eastern orthodox church have totoally difference understanding  of gopsel, wrath, hell, judgment,sin, punishment,etc.


I want to ask a question the eastern orthodox christian here.What is your impression to the Trinity God. I cannot speak for other protestant christian. But For me, God does not give me a good impression.He is a harsh God. He always anger and punish us. We are just saved from his wrath and punishment.  He loves us only If we love him.If we do not love him,  He cannot love us and he will abandon us , punish us, torture us with eternal fire due to his holiness and righteouess. He is not all- love. He sometimes loves us, somethings hate,anger on us due to his righteouness, holiness . He is a father who place more importance on own his glory, holiness name rather than his creations.


As for the eastern orthodox christian here. What is your impression on your God who you worship??

Your impression of God sounds quite similar to the impression of God I had when I rejected Christianity as a Protestant teenager. In my opinion it's quite easy to come to such an opinion of God within Protestantism. In Orthodoxy I found a very different view of God - one where He really is love not the one that everyone said was love but seemed something entirely different. It is also one where God is Trinity - which is very different to my Protestant experience where God generally meant just Father. It's impossible not to think of God as Love once you realised that He became man, died and resurrected to save us. Christ really is God - He's not simply the God's son (not sure if what I mean by this is clear, but it seems to me that my previous Protestant faith treated the two as different beings in the way we simply do not). The fact that I have now been Orthodox for over a decade testifies to the fact that I found the Orthodox view as compelling as I found the Protestant view of my early years repellent.

James
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 10:54:17 AM »

I would say, for myself, that God is the source of love an infinite source He never runs out lol.  We definitely fall into punishment when we ourselves refuse to love God and others but it's a self inflicted punishment, where we cut ourself off from the source of all life due to an extreme disorder within ourselves.
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walter1234
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 11:02:08 AM »

http://davidpawson.org/resources/resource/1199
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2852702/posts
http://brohenson.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/god-so-o-o-o-loved-the-world/
http://thelatterdays.blogspot.hk/2012/08/the-god-of-love.html


The above is the teaching which come from a very famous pastor in protestant. He always challenges the notions of 'God's love is unconditional love'.

He says that 'John 3:16' cannot fit with the concept of ' God's love is unconditional love'. He say that this scripture (John 3:16) does not interpret correctly in english bible version. Thus, Christians misunderstand that john 3:16 is the gospel and have a wrong idea that God's love is uncondtional.


Do you have any commment on his teaching on john 3:16??
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:24:36 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 11:29:12 AM »

I don't quite understand how this teaching of John 3:16 negates the fact that God IS love, sure I can say to myself  "thats silly I'm not going to look at that snake nailed to a pole, that won't save me" or if I say "that's not God nailed to a cross, I don't need saving by following the way he carved out for me" but where does it say that because I refuse to believe that His love stops?
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walter1234
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2012, 11:35:22 AM »

He does not totally deny God' love through john 3:16, but he uses this scripture (John 3:16) to prove God's love is only conditional!!  

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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2012, 11:39:12 AM »

Quote
I struggle with god's unconditional love due to his teaching!!
And which teaching is this?

PP
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 11:40:27 AM »

http://davidpawson.org/resources/resource/1199
http://brohenson.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/god-so-o-o-o-loved-the-world/
http://thelatterdays.blogspot.hk/2012/08/the-god-of-love.html


The above is the teaching which come from a very famous pastor in protestant. He always challenges the notions of 'God's love is unconditional love'.

He says that 'John 3:16' cannot fit with the concept of ' God's love is unconditional love'. He say that this scripture (John 3:16) does not interpret correctly in english bible version. Thus, Christians misunderstand that john 3:16 is the gospel and have a wrong idea that God's love is uncondtional.


Do you have any commment on his teaching??

Of course we've been mistranslating John 3:16 all these centuries. Good thing that guy came along and corrected us. Men and Saints far more wiser and a tradition that has been passed down for 2000 years is upended by this Davd Pawson and his teaching on a "mistranslation".

God becoming the God-man in Jesus Christ is his love. He wouldn't have humbled himself to our lowliness if he didn't love us. His mercy is more deep and infinite their our sinfulness could ever be. That doesn't mean just because he loves us we get to act as our passions are inclined. We have to work out our salvation in "fear and trembling". There are no free rides in Orthodoxy.

These Protestants lean on their own understanding of scripture. They've cut themselves off from the Church and her ways. You can follow men or you can follow God in his Church.
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 11:41:21 AM »

http://davidpawson.org/resources/resource/1199
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2852702/posts
http://brohenson.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/god-so-o-o-o-loved-the-world/
http://thelatterdays.blogspot.hk/2012/08/the-god-of-love.html


The above is the teaching which come from a very famous pastor in protestant. He always challenges the notions of 'God's love is unconditional love'.

He says that 'John 3:16' cannot fit with the concept of ' God's love is unconditional love'. He say that this scripture (John 3:16) does not interpret correctly in english bible version. Thus, Christians misunderstand that john 3:16 is the gospel and have a wrong idea that God's love is uncondtional.


Do you have any commment on his teaching on john 3:16??


 “If God loves the world so-o-o-o much, why is there still so much suffering in the world?”  This seems to be the heart of the matter. God allows free will therefore we are the cause of suffering. Our fallen nature corrupted everything and only by our reuniting to God do we have any chance in correcting this situation.
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2012, 11:43:15 AM »

This famous pastor also say the disciples never said 'God is love' when they preach the gospel according to the Bible (Acts). He said there is only a few scriptures tell us that GOd is love. The bible often tell 'GOd is love' or' god's love' only in fellowships or when the christians praise GOd. He said that all this  prove god is not only love or not always love. Only the belivers or the men who is already forgiven by God would be loved by God

I am sorry!! I really struggle with god's unconditional love due to his teachings!! Sad
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:47:48 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2012, 11:46:48 AM »

Quote
This famous pastor also say the disciples never said 'God is love' when they preach the gospel. He says there is only a few scripture tell us that GOd is love. The bible often tell 'GOd is love' or' god's love' only in fellowship or the christian praise GOd. He said all this  prove god is not only love or not always love

I am sorry!! I really struggle with god's unconditional love due to his teachings!!
This is the teaching of some pastor, not God's teachings.

I am still confused as to which teaching from God makes it difficult to understand God's love.

PP
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2012, 11:57:33 AM »

Ahhhhh I think I know the problem here Smiley its a tough one for me to answer so if I'm right maybe someone can help cuz it's hard for me to explain, basically it's comes down to "if God loves us unconditionally no matter what even if we don't believe His son, why then are we still punished in eternity, cuz if He loves us He wouldnt punish us" is that the unconditional love part your struggling with cuz of these teachings? It's a Love vs Judgment thing?
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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2012, 12:06:04 PM »

The Son did not come to save us from the Father, but to reconcile us to Him. He came to save us from sin, death, and the devil.
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« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2012, 12:43:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The Holy Trinity reveals not the wrath of God but His Love.  The Trinity reveals that seeks a relationship with us, as He maintains a relationship even amongst Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  This is a dynamic God with a sense of movement and dimension.  Further, as the Father has a loving relationship with Himself as the Son, He also extends this relationship to ourselves.  That God maintains His own relationships within Himself, shows us that we have the same potential.  Love is the focus, not wrath, which is precisely why our ontological approach to things like hell, judgment, heaven, and Grace of God are a bit more nuanced than typical Protestant interpretations of the same.

stay blessed,
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« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2012, 07:04:46 PM »

A god that takes on a nature he does not need to take on, a God who does not need to show us love or mercy or any sort of kindness but does if we accept and live by him is not an evil God. Thats how I see it.
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2012, 07:12:58 PM »

The parable of the Prodigal Son is a good example of the magnitude of God's love for sinful mankind.
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 10:12:01 AM »

How about the old testament??

God asked Joshua to slaughter all the Canaanites. God asked Saul to slaughter all the Amalekites. He rained  down brimstone and fire  to kill all the people in the Sodom and Gomorrah. Many Protestant christians like to use these horrible things that GOd did in old testament to deny God's unconditional love or to prove that GOd hate the sinners. Some protestant leaders even use them to prove that God always shows anger towards the sinners, hates the sinners like Canaanites , Amalekites and sinners in Sodom and Gomorrah

So, How all these things link up the love of God?? How to explain all these horrible things that God did to the sinners in old testament with his love??

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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 11:42:32 AM »

Quote
This famous pastor also say the disciples never said 'God is love' when they preach the gospel. He says there is only a few scripture tell us that GOd is love. The bible often tell 'GOd is love' or' god's love' only in fellowship or the christian praise GOd. He said all this  prove god is not only love or not always love

I am sorry!! I really struggle with god's unconditional love due to his teachings!!
This is the teaching of some pastor, not God's teachings.

I am still confused as to which teaching from God makes it difficult to understand God's love.

PP

The teaching in old testament make me quite difficult to understand GOd's love.  God asked HIS people to slaugter the cities. He rained down the fire and brainstorm to burn everything in Sodom and Gomorrah. God reuested His people to stone the men who break his ten commendant, He made the earth open her mouth ,and took in Korah, Dathan, Abira and even their innocent son, wives and little childs.......


How can a loving GOd do somethings so horrible??
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 12:13:44 PM »

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/how_to_read_the_bible

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/reading_the_old_testament

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/scandal_and_the_old_testament_part_1

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/sex_lies_and_the_old_testament_part_2

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/lies_and_deceipt_in_the_ot

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/war_and_violence_in_the_ot
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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 12:45:51 PM »

Walter,
In the refrences you used, all of them centered on one thing. Man's rebellion against God. God's punishment is not because He chose it, its because we did through our actions.

PP
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 01:17:40 PM »

Fire is always fire. Put wood, hay, stubble, paper near a fire and it will combust and be reduced to ashes. Put iron near a fire and it takes the fire into itself. In time it will even glow with the heat of the fire and will communicate that fire to all it touches or that touches it.

When God draws near, that which is compatible with with Him takes Him in, is transformed and transfigured by Him, and like the iron communicates Him according to a person's nature and ability to receive fire. Those who are like wood, hay and stubble find His presence consuming. Those who are like iron…or better like gold and silver, receive Him and are purified by Him.  

With respect to the Old Testament we also believe that God's revelation of Himself took time, and His people in possession in the early years of a limited revelation acted in that context. Yet there were great men of God in those years too, and we are not in a position to judge them by a set of mores that only became broadly viable after the establishment of the Church and the New Covenant. The Orthodox take many of the stories or significant aspects of those eras as spiritual metaphors/illustrations, not as material for broad emulation. So rather than literally dash anyone's little ones against the stones, we dash the hateful, sinful, tempting thoughts insinuated by the enemy before they have opportunity to root, grow, and become serious thorns and snares for us.

Since Christ we know much better what God wants of us and also have access to Him in a very intimate way in and through Christ.  The Old Testament times were a time of hard and sometimes brutal lessons. Our sins as humanity had not yet been met in history in Christ, and until then God winked at a lot that was inconsistent with His fullest desires for the healing and restoration of man.  Plus we may not forget, though we do not regard God as some vengeful potentate out to destroy us if we don't routinely lick His boots…He is still our God and the giver of our lives and the only one Who make take them or permit them to be taken. We will all die eventually. Even when He has permitted calamities of the body, that does not mean He has no care for the soul of one so taken.

In Christ God has shown us His Heart. It is there we must turn for the light to understand all else concerning Him before or in ages yet to come.

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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2012, 02:58:53 PM »


Thanks for these information . I will spend time and listen them!! Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2012, 06:11:02 AM »

For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.(Exodus 20: 5-6)



In ten commandments, God said that He will show mercy to the people  who love Him and to their descendants. But for those who hate God, He will remember and punish them, their children, even to their third and fourth generation.

This scripture(e.g. Exodus 20:5-6) seem telling us that God would only love the people who love him, and punish the people who hate me and even their descendants.  And His love is conditional......


Does this scripture(e.g. Exodus) contradict with GOd's unconditional love?? How do orthodox chrisitans explain this scripture???
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2012, 12:29:33 AM »

For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.(Exodus 20: 5-6)



In ten commandments, God said that He will show mercy to the people  who love Him and to their descendants. But for those who hate God, He will remember and punish them, their children, even to their third and fourth generation.

This scripture(e.g. Exodus 20:5-6) seem telling us that God would only love the people who love him, and punish the people who hate me and even their descendants.  And His love is conditional......


Does this scripture(e.g. Exodus) contradict with GOd's unconditional love?? How do orthodox chrisitans explain this scripture???

Whatever the true meaning of this Scripture is - and the meaning of all the Old Testament - its meaning can only be known by first looking to God's revelation of Himself on the Cross. And from that knowledge we are able to shed light on the Old Testament and come to know what God was truly showing us.

On the Cross we see the God who longs for the forgiveness of those who were murdering Him. We see the God who cares nothing for His self-image. We see a God who pours Himself out for others, taking no thought for His own well-being.

So for the Orthodox, whatever that passage means will only be known in light of that knowledge of God hanging on the cross. I'm not going to give THE absolute Orthodox answer to those specific passages as I do not have the necessary knowledge to do so, but my point forms the basis for the Orthodox answer.
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2012, 12:51:59 AM »

God allows free will therefore we are the cause of suffering.
How does that apply in the case of a baby born with an incapacitating disease?
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2012, 02:43:25 AM »

Quote
How does that apply in the case of a baby born with an incapacitating disease?

Ask the cadaverous fish that clings to life in a stream burned raw by the industrial pollution of others.
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2012, 03:06:38 AM »

For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.(Exodus 20: 5-6)



In ten commandments, God said that He will show mercy to the people  who love Him and to their descendants. But for those who hate God, He will remember and punish them, their children, even to their third and fourth generation.

This scripture(e.g. Exodus 20:5-6) seem telling us that God would only love the people who love him, and punish the people who hate me and even their descendants.  And His love is conditional......


Does this scripture(e.g. Exodus) contradict with GOd's unconditional love?? How do orthodox chrisitans explain this scripture???

Whatever the true meaning of this Scripture is - and the meaning of all the Old Testament - its meaning can only be known by first looking to God's revelation of Himself on the Cross. And from that knowledge we are able to shed light on the Old Testament and come to know what God was truly showing us.

On the Cross we see the God who longs for the forgiveness of those who were murdering Him. We see the God who cares nothing for His self-image. We see a God who pours Himself out for others, taking no thought for His own well-being.

So for the Orthodox, whatever that passage means will only be known in light of that knowledge of God hanging on the cross. I'm not going to give THE absolute Orthodox answer to those specific passages as I do not have the necessary knowledge to do so, but my point forms the basis for the Orthodox answer.


I like it. That's true. Jesus said that when we see/know Him, we will see/ know  His Father. Jesus is perfect reflection of Father. He come to reveal the True God , not to change the unchanged God. No theological work or interpretation of bible scriptures should contradict with the life / cross of Christ. Most protestant christians cannot understand it.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 03:07:43 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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