I am Godless

[orthonorm]

In trying to figure out why, I am torn between adolescence and the Evil One as the culprit. May be both. In any case, I do not think that this JamersR is the last word because I remember another JamesR before and he will come back in due course. In the meantime, I pray that the following petitions reawaken in JamesR's soul and effect his return:

"An angel of peace, a faithful guide, a guardian of our souls and
bodies, let us ask of the Lord.

Pardon and forgiveness of our sins and transgressions, let us ask of
the Lord.

All things good and profitable for our souls and peace for the world,
let us ask of the Lord.

That we may complete the remaining time of our life in peace and
repentance, let us ask of the Lord.

A Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful and a
good defense before the fearful judgment seat of Christ, let us ask."

Grant this O Lord and have mercy on your servant James, receive him back as the father received his prodigal son and forgive him as You forgave the good thief.

Reply #12

[Achronos]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

[Quinault]

You spend your time helping people who want help. You do not waste your time on people who do not.

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.  

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

$5 words don't mean you don't know what poverty is. Orthonorm is a great guy, and he genuinely cares. While it may appear I agree with you Green Umbrella in my postings on this thread, I don't. 

[orthonorm]

Some good stuff after reply #12, but really, after the spirit of those words, what else is there to say, other than to agree. And let's be honest, it ain't like I am BFFs with Gebre, Jeremy, or Second. But those are sound and clear responses. Perhaps with a little rebuke from my beloved Schultzie.

And perhaps some good humored, "I told you so". But really, dissecting someone's else life is a bit much in light of so little information.

[Green_Umbrella]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

Right, and ¨I hate God with a burning passion¨ did not. Go figure.

[orthonorm]

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.   

More poverty pr0n. You don't like the casting. Poor folks can't be educated.

[Ansgar]

Let's all just pray that James will find his way back to God and the Church.

Lord have mercy!

[Quinault]

I honestly don't think this is just about finding his way back to God and the church. The church is a hospital for the sick, so obviously it will help. But there is some pain and anger here that has to do with more than just God.

I meant it when I said it; I really do hope he can find some happiness. The rage he is obviously having isn't healthy for anyone.


I would say that I hope he doesn't partake in communion in his current state.

[Achronos]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

Right, and ¨I hate God with a burning passion¨ did not. Go figure.

I seem to recall Fr. Seraphim Rose saying that those angry at God are those trying their hardest to grasp Him. Or something like that, it's in his Nihilsm book.

[vamrat]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

Indeed, those trying to help him are guilty of hubris, thinking that their reasoning is capable of reaching the mind of an adolescent mid-tantrum.  If what Quinault has said to him hasn't snapped him out of it then perhaps a stint in the French Foreign Legion or the Marine Corps would do him well.  Something to teach him some maturity and discipline.

As long as you know him.

Give him your number and get to know him a little better. Perhaps you already have. I mean you've done it for others in times of stress? Right?

Yeah, discipline . . .

Indeed and have benefited from it as well.  I have sent him a PM and he is free to get a hold of me however he prefers.

So in other words, without knowing much about a person you parse out advice based on some seemingly incendiary posts. Posts which to anyone with a little compassion, experience, insight, and perhaps knowing the person a little better than just from what they post here would understand much more lies beneath.

So, hubris and lack of "knowledge" so celebrated here..

You, Quinault, and company and deal out your "tough love" with whatever projections you must exercise in the world, but know that at least one person here sees it for what it is.

I don't mean this list to be exhaustive, but Gebre, Second Chance (sorry Karl, still trying), quietmorning and the like offer a little room for the possibility more might be at stake and whatever their projections might be, they come from the heart and offer a little bit of caring that might actually be taken for what it is.

Well, I sent him a PM.  If he has something to say in a manner that doesn't come off as a whiny little brat then let him say it.  You are right, some people do need kindness and compassion.  Sometimes that is all they need to unscrew themselves.  Other times...

http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/

Whatever your origins, nationality or religion might be, whatever qualifications you may or may not have, whatever your social or professional status might be, whether you are married or single, the French Foreign Legion offers you a chance to start a new life...

[Quinault]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

Right, and ¨I hate God with a burning passion¨ did not. Go figure.

God doesn't need us to defend him. Moreso, the OP knows exactly what he is doing. Hatred of God does nothing lasting to God. But it does damage us. The reaction that we "don't need Christians like you" is just awful. In your zeal to "defend" God you have forgotten that God indeed made man in His image.

[vamrat]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.

A very generous offer but I see all the material I need on a daily basis. As in right now, in this moment.  

I asked you a question about running water, why did not you answer? I will ask you another. I can pick up a stone from my current location and hit a family living without electricity and running water in a home they made from garbage. Well, let us see. It looks like they might have an illegal connection they set up for themselves. That is the norm you know. How about you, let us hear it.

My generation? What is my generation? Do you know? You do not. You have no idea. You are just blowing smoke out of your self-righteous arse. JamesR does not want help or did not you notice that. I think he made that perfectly clear. You spend your time helping people who want help. You do not waste your time on people who do not.

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.  

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

You might consider toning down on the anger.  Be careful when fighting monsters lest you become one, yo.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank.

When the young Siddhartha first ventured out of the security of his childhood, he discovered that much like in a really bad Film Noir movie, that the world is a sorry place, and even the best of it can be discouraging.  However, this only led him to understand the revelation of the First Noble Truth, that life is suffering.  There is nothing else to say about the matter, and Christianity inherently agrees.  We then through fasting, through prayer, through a lifetime cultivating a relationship with God, do not learn the magic words to make suffering go away, rather, we learn by God's Grace to with Christian dignity embrace our fates.

who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

Hebrews 5


Please always keep in mind, when you are in the depths of your pain, God is suffering too.  All those things in the world that make us suffer, God suffers them with us.

Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better.

Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but however you slice that cake, our reality remains the same.  The life you have is the only life you are going to get it, flaws and all.  You can't change that, period.  The suffering that we endure is so largely out of our hands, that its literally childish to pretend we can avoid it.  Further, young children tend to accept this so much better than we do, just go volunteer in the LA Country Children's Court, where the kids have been sexually and physically abused or neglect, and yet they are playing, laughing, having sincere fun playing with each other in the waiting room, meanwhile just about every single adult in the room is dejected, depressed, and in burdensome tears.  Maybe we can learn from the example of children, and bear our fates with a bit more joy realizing life is what we got, and its all we got, so we're best to enjoy it as best we can regardless of the circumstances.  

Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

No, Satan is the entire source of suffering in the first place.  He is so miserable from his own dejection by God, that he wants to make us all as miserable as he is, so he reminds us and accuses us and tortures our imaginations with all the self-defeating "what-ifs"?  Simply put my young brother, that life is life, as we say around the hood, "It is what it is."  We Fell, not God.  Life is what it is.  The question now is what can we make of it? You are a young man, but you are becoming a man.  As a man, your life is what you make it.  If you want to be miserable and accusative, then so be it.  But all that rage will not fulfill you, it will consume you.  Adults become wise enough by experience to pick their battles and celebrate their victories no matter how small in scale.  Every little bit counts, every day we move the ball a little further down the field, and why the defense has a horrifying blitz, if we still play the game with poise and dignity and give it our sheer best, we just might score that winning touch down and enjoy the game

I am praying for you and us all.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[JamesR]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

[Quinault]

Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but however you slice that cake, our reality remains the same.  The life you have is the only life you are going to get it, flaws and all.  You can't change that, period.  The suffering that we endure is so largely out of our hands, that its literally childish to pretend we can avoid it.  Further, young children tend to accept this so much better than we do, just go volunteer in the LA Country Children's Court, where the kids have been sexually and physically abused or neglect, and yet they are playing, laughing, having sincere fun playing with each other in the waiting room, meanwhile just about every single adult in the room is dejected, depressed, and in burdensome tears.  Maybe we can learn from the example of children, and bear our fates with a bit more joy realizing life is what we got, and its all we got, so we're best to enjoy it as best we can regardless of the circumstances. 

Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

No, Satan is the entire source of suffering in the first place.  He is so miserable from his own dejection by God, that he wants to make us all as miserable as he is, so he reminds us and accuses us and tortures our imaginations with all the self-defeating "what-ifs"?  Simply put my young brother, that life is life, as we say around the hood, "It is what it is."  We Fell, not God.  Life is what it is.  The question now is what can we make of it? You are a young man, but you are becoming a man.  As a man, your life is what you make it.  If you want to be miserable and accusative, then so be it.  But all that rage will not fulfill you, it will consume you.  Adults become wise enough by experience to pick their battles and celebrate their victories no matter how small in scale.  Every little bit counts, every day we move the ball a little further down the field, and why the defense has a horrifying blitz, if we still play the game with poise and dignity and give it our sheer best, we just might score that winning touch down and enjoy the game

I am praying for you and us all.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

This is precisely what I meant to get at. Maybe sleep deprivation kept me from making it clearer.

[quietmorning]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

James, He's running to you and wrapping His arms around you.  You took communion in that state.  . . He entered into you through communion to heal you.  THAT'S how MUCH He loves you.

[Cyrillic]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

Δόξα τῷ Θεῷ πάντων ἕνεκεν! Glory be to God for all things!

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

But really, running water isn't the best method of determining quality of life. My little factoid: I grew up where 1 in 3 women is sexually assaulted. That number is likely higher since natives tend to cover it up. The US isn't a perfect model of clean and ethical living.

Hate to burst the bubble, but over their lifetime one in four American women will have been raped, molested, or sexually assaulted.  This is not a cultural thing, this is seemingly a universal problem. Yes, at the moment is is perhaps the most worse in the Democratic Republic of Congo, but that is because of lawlessness, not a more rape-prone culture.  The sad reality is that we as men need to step up to the plate in ALL of our societies to better protect the women in our lives from ourselves

JamesR has made himself the biggest Rorschach blot around.

About time out of your pages and pages of self-aggrandizing pseudo-gibberish you finally put out a true jewel of wisdom here.  Maybe you should concentrate all your efforts on valuable insights like this, and avoid getting caught up in your own version of the Maury Povich show which consists of approximately 68% of what you've been posting lately




Now that James has cleared his head a bit, can we all stop having a pity party peeing contest over here


stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Quinault]

It doesn't burst any bubble. It doesn't change the fact that rape simply doesn't get prosecuted in indian country. My point was that life is difficult even in the US.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

James, perhaps like young Siddhartha you have yet you be hurt by your love, so your love is pure and innocent. Simply put, GOD WAS HURT BY HIS LOVE.  He loves Satan, look where that God Him! He loves us, and the world is a terribly mess indeed!  Human beings out the depth and wisdom and experience of love, learn one of the joys of life is to love and forgive other people who have wronged us.  God loves the world so much, that He allows out of His kindness and mercy suffering.  What if God were to suddenly and instantly judge all evil? You and me both would be swept up into an eternity of even more sorrow then our temporal griefs here on Earth.  GOD LOVES THE WORLD, AND HE ALLOWS EVIL TO EXIST BECAUSE HE LOVES EVIL TOO!  When you realize from the depth of your own love, to be forced by it to forgive another person who has hurt you, then you will finally empathize and understand where God is coming from, and WHY God forgives even the most despicable evil.  The just have no need for the physician, but the those who are sick.  The world is a sick place, we have to learn to love suffering as much as rejoicing, because that is God's fate, and we are not greater or lesser than God in this regard.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[genesisone]

But the fact remains that I still have so many questions.

We all do, JamesR, whether we are sixteen like you, or sixty like me. The questions will change and our faith will be challenged. There will be good days and bad days. I hope you can find someone with whom you can have a face-to-face discussion where you feel as comfortable about expressing yourself as you do here.

[Quinault]

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

In my case a sort of numb sadness comes after anger. God loves you, even when you don't feel it. Sometimes we just keep repeating the same things over and over to ourselves hoping to believe them. You don't have to feel anything to pray. Repent, pick yourself up and try to stay standing for awhile. I would talk to your godparents and spiritual father about your struggles as soon as you feel you can. Start with just one thing each day; belief that God loves you. Once you can believe that without effort, move to the next thing. Don't try and jump headfirst back into faith. Being present in the liturgy is enough if that is all you can handle.

I would start with simply praying with your prayer rope "Lord I believe, help my unbelief" and leave it at that for awhile.

[Agabus]

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

James, I can't answer your questions. I'm not that bright.

But you have no need to fear God. The feast he offers is freely given.

1 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons.  12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood.  13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living.  14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want.  15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.  16 And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.

17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’

But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him.  21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

[neon_knights]

HE LOVES EVIL TOO!

This is contrary to the Scriptures.

[Deacon Lance]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

In my experience, people who have suffered little or nothing and had an easy life generally aren't very good people.  On the otherhand, all the people I know to be of exceptional character have suffered, sometimes horrifically, and grown because of it.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

HE LOVES EVIL TOO!

This is contrary to the Scriptures.

Really? Then explain (a) how Evil continues to exist considering that nothing exists aside from the Will and Power of God and (b) Romans 2?

Don't you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can't you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?

I wasn't suggesting on an eternal sense, but evil and suffering in the here and now.  God permits evil humans to exist out of his love for them, and in reality, whether we understand it or not, something similar must be going on between God and the Devil, because one way or the other, we see that God allows and actually sustains even the life of the Devil and his demons..

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Orthodox11]

I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

[Cavaradossi]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Cavaradossi]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I do not understand your argument. Orthonorm's posting behavior has no relevance to whether my observation is true or not.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I thank God that James has reconsidered. Glory be to God!

[Green_Umbrella]

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.   

More poverty pr0n. You don't like the casting. Poor folks can't be educated.

Uh huh. I noticed you did not answer any of my questions. It is a nice view and easy to shoot arrows from an ivory tower no doubt. 

[Michael36]

Upon advice from an anonymous friend, I took a break from this forum to get my thoughts together and try to understand who I am. And during that time, I had a revelation that most of you will disapprove of. I am godless. I am tired of adhering to something I do not understand and worshipping a Divine god whom I do not like. So go ahead, Achronos, laugh, you were correct in predicting my path to godlessness.

I would not say that I am necessarily an atheist as in I do not believe in God, but that I do believe in Him but hate him with a burning passion. Perhaps I am even a Luciferanian. When I really look at it, why is the Devil do bad? He is the lightbearer who finally had the nerve to step up to God--the Divine tyrant--and teach us to do the same. God is omnipotent yet He lets us suffer miserably. Lucifer is not omnipotent and therefore cannot stop our suffering, but at least to the very best of his ability he tries to urge us to liberate ourselves from God. He represents true freedom and tolerance.

I hate God. He is nothing but a deadbeat father yet I am supposed to adhere to a religion all about Him. My first thoughts are honestly **** Him. Where was He when I was a scared little kid, where was He when my parents where abusing me or when my mom miscarried or when my father relapsed and I was all alone? Hiding behind His lazy 'free will' cop-out or having His clergy tell us that the world has not been 'fully redeemed' yet and is still 'fallen'? Well why don't the lazy **** take responsibility for the state of His creation and do something to fix it?

The excuse I always hear is the Incarnation. But honestly, what difference does it make? People still suffer, I still had it miserably, we still all die in the end. Likewise, what is it with worshipping God for becoming man and dying? It was not a gift; He owed it to us since we are His fault anyway. Why worship Him for taking responsibility? Hell, I wish I was the one who could have crucified Him--it would be good payback for all the crap He let me go through.

Going even further, this deadbeat father even has the nerve to judge us when He was never there and is the one who created us/allowed us to be born into circumstances with urges and factors that make us sin. And His bat**** crazy adherents do the same. I can't fornicate even though He allowed be to be born with horny animalistic passions, I cannot steal even though He lets people live in poverty and I cannot murder even though He allows me to be born with a temper. There is no such thing as freewill. Period. God is a monster who allows us to be born screwed up and then condemns us for the way we are. It is all His fault.

And look at what this does to His adherents. Parents do all sorts of crazy **** to their kids because of religion--ie circumcise them, Baptise them, fill their heads with silly superstitions and worries, tell them they are worthless compared to this transcendent guy in the sky and teach them to be ashamed of their bodies and pubescent passions. As if that were not enough, they teach them intolerance toward homosexuals and certain types of people and ultimately divide society all because of religion. I hate religion.

Religion says that my mom is a whore for having me outside of marriage because of some dumb 'sacramental' ****. It says that the horribly dysfunctional heterosexual couple is okay yet the successful homosexual relationship of 30 years that my neighbor has is evil in the eyes of God. It tells me to condemn my passions and judge others, adhering to a strict and silly ethical system.

Quite frankly, I am becoming much more postmodern and relativistic in my ethics. I love all kinds of people (except old religious people and conservatives). I am not going to condemn fornication because I came from it nor am I going to judge homosexuality. Who am I to say whether fornicators or homosexuals love each other or not? I am not going to tell people how to live their lives or how to have sex. I am going to love everyone and urge everyone to indulge in their passions.

Satan is really not a bad guy. He advocates total tolerance for everyone and true freedom to do whatever we want and become the best we can be. God just holds me back, I feel like He is an obstacle in my intellectual life and always tries to bind me down to some outdated, intolerant and silly ethical system. Religion ruins everything. I hate it. I hate how old people and Southerners try to bring it into everything. It is jus another stupid and illogical conservative idealogy that senile old people and weak-minded folks adhere to just because it is old.

Ever since childhood I always had people bossing me around and telling me what I can and cannot do, telling me to be grateful and humble. But what is so great about humbleness and humility? These terms are just polite ways of saying to be a weak pushover. I deserve more and for once I am acknowledging it. God owes me. The world owes me. And instead of submitting I am finally going to spoil myself and indulge in all of my passions--as the good Lucifer would advocate. I want money and women. I openly admit it. No need in being ashamed of my passions anymore, I no longer have that divine tyrant binding me down.

God only leads to suffering but indulging in your passions brings happiness. Screw all that crap about money can't buy happiness. Because poverty is no picnic either. Money can make me happy and it is all that I want and have wanted for quite a while now. Since I never had it as a child I think it is about time I spoiled myself to some money and indulgence. I for once feel liberated and free. And I deserve the pleasure to compensate for all the misery God allowed me to endure.

I am tired of being bound by God and His outdated ethics and having to be ashamed of myself and suppress all my passions, ambitions, intellect and potential. For once I can really be a that I can be. I am more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me, so why adhere to illogical beliefs and hang around God's flock which is generally full of weak minded people and senile old folks? Why suppress my passions any longer? God allowed me to have them.

Satan tells me to pursue my ambitions and be all that I can truly be. He is tolerant towards everyone and urges us to reach our true potential. Do you realize how liberating this is compared to Christianity? Hell, Christianity even makes it harder for me to do good because it preaches intolerance. Without Christianity I can truly accept someone no matter what they may be like or what lifestyle they may live whereas in Christisnity I have to condemn them.

Consider this my religious resignation. I no longer want anything to do with God. I hate Him. And I won't submit to a deadbeat father. I'll do whatever makes me happy and I no longer give a rat's **** about what He thinks. Unless He stops all the suffering in the world and becomes accepting/tolerant of all people, I will have nothing to do with Him.

I have failed you all. I am no longer this great Orthodox kid with all this religious saintly potential that many of you think I have. I am just broken and think that I will find happiness in the dark side. An ex-Orthodox Anakin Skywalker. I imagine I will keep this a secret and still attend my Church, just so that my parents do not discover my godlessness and try to convert me back to Protestantism.

Wish me luck, but don't waste your time and pray. There is no old for me to return back to God's chains.

You are free to rant and rail against God on this forum, (though maybe not on the Faith Issues board, but I'll let this section's moderator decide that). What you are not free to do is lace your rant with obscenities and profanities as you have so done. Therefore, you are receiving this warning to last for the next 40 days. During this time, please find more appropriate ways to express your rage against God on this forum. If you think this action wrong, please appeal it to me via private message.

-PeterTheAleut

This thread was moved to the Religious Topics since you have declared you are not Christian any longer - Michał Kalina.

Hi James,

You'll probably hate me for saying this, but I went through the exact same thing at your age. I believed in God on a good day in a weird agnostic/deist relativistic kind of way, and on my miserable days I was a complete mysotheist. Strangely enough, God was more real to me when I hated Him. I spewed complete vitriol and hate at him for making my life so miserable, that no one understood me, that he wanted me to turn from things that felt good, that I lost good friends, and that I couldn't find a girl who would giver her all to the relationship. I tore my crucifix of my wall, chucked it in my closet, and said, "I WONT WORSHIP YOU UNTIL YOU FIX THIS".

I agree with some of the others in that you were too young to begin this kind of conversion. Being 16 is hell, it's the craziest time of your life. Still, at least you have something to go back to when you're older if you change your mind. Here's my advice for the moment: others have pointed out that you may not have time to "learn the hard way and repent", because you could die today; I however am praying that you do learn this way unless you reconsider your departure. I had to taste hell before I could appreciate heaven. Do this and you will understand why God commands what he does: hang out with the people on the abyss. Hang out with the angry, the sorrowful, the drug addicts, the homeless, the lost children. What you will find in these people is this beautiful brokenness. They're broken and they know it, but they're alive. They don't try to drown thought and emotion in parties and numbing drugs. They ask hard questions, ride the waves of emotion, and live for the beautiful moments they can find. People who said they hated God, but would have given their all to God if they had just realized how worthy of His love they truly were    Those are the people that taught me that God is here, that He is real, that He loves us, suffers with us in all things (sorrow, anger, heart rending emotional and excruciating physical pain, and even the feeling of divine abandonment), and yet gives us a way out. I am indescribably better having come out of this and found the bridegroom of my soul (still learning to turn my eros to Him. I suffer terribly from Lust, but it's beautiful when that passion is purified) in the pits of Gehenna with an extended hand. He understands, because He is fully human, but He stayed above it all. Learn to love in suffering, my friend.

May the Lord grant you this understanding and empathy,
Mikhael

[Green_Umbrella]

I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself.

I did pray for you James. I have no anger with you at all. God forgives, thank God. Take any anger and frustration you have and let God help you channel it to something positive. Personal suffering is often the deciding motivator to make something good. e.g. The former drug addict who now counsels and breaks others addiction to drugs. e.g. The former alcoholic who now counsels alcoholics.

Suffering brings wisdom and strength. Everyone can read the warning label on a bottle alcohol but a former alcoholic can explain to you what it really means. I hope you understand what I say. And do not try to heal yourself. A forum is a bad place to discuss your personal religious issues. It is a bad place to discuss religion at all really. Talk to a priest...not a teen. 

Tell him exactly how you feel.  Face to face. Be honest. Hold nothing back.   

 
 

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I do not understand your argument. Orthonorm's posting behavior has no relevance to whether my observation is true or not.

The only thing to have learned from orthonorm's provocations is that patiences is a virtue and of course the deep moral lesson of 2 Timothy 2:23-25 

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[William]

I wish some people weren't so full of it.

Saying Lucifer is cool, that you want to murder, that you hate God, these things are pure evil. Quinault is right that eventually we need to stop the coddling. There's something really wrong with these mood swings of James'.

[Green_Umbrella]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

And it has been my experience if you try to push God upon people they reject him. The harder you push the more they push back. Push hard enough and they will reject him completely.

[Achronos]

I wish some people weren't so full of it.

Saying Lucifer is cool, that you want to murder, that you hate God, these things are pure evil. Quinault is right that eventually we need to stop the coddling. There's something really wrong with these mood swings of James'.

Sounds like a relationship I was in. One moment I hated her and the next I loved her, depending on the situation of course. I kind of view his "mood swings" as normal TBH, especially when trying to rationalize the things James talks about. But once you have answers that satisfy you or accept things as they are, you get much less angry at God.

There's people out there who love God, and then God makes them suffer somehow and they get angry at Him as to why they are suffering. This stuff happens all the time, the lesson here is to never give up faith in God and trust in His ways. Go read Job again and I really can't fault for James railing at God either.

I've said this before, we have no clue what James is going through on a personal level. To spout a bunch of nonsense and to be critical of him is doing more harm than good. We need to listen and be there for him. Not to lash out at him.

[akimori makoto]

James, I'm not sure whether this will assist you, but the following words of Father Seraphim (Rose) reminded me of you:

“Atheism, true 'existential' atheism, burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God […] Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved, thereby, his intense hunger for Christ.”

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

James, I'm not sure whether this will assist you, but the following words of Father Seraphim (Rose) reminded me of you:

“Atheism, true 'existential' atheism, burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God […] Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved, thereby, his intense hunger for Christ.”

That is why I always love Father Seraphim, I came into Orthodox not necessarily from DTTW, but most definitely as a spiritual nihilist of the same vain.  Now I am just a political nihilist, and a Holy Spiritual idealist

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Achronos]

James, I'm not sure whether this will assist you, but the following words of Father Seraphim (Rose) reminded me of you:

“Atheism, true 'existential' atheism, burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God […] Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved, thereby, his intense hunger for Christ.”

That was the exact quote I was referencing to a few posts up. Thanks, akimori.

[Rufus]

A thought: James is going through a very common phenomenon: adolescent spiritual crisis.

Is it really good for him that he's getting all this attention from us? I don't want to sound mean, but maybe he really just has to deal with it by himself (like most of us who were in his shoes did).

[Achronos]

A thought: James is going through a very common phenomenon: adolescent spiritual crisis.

Is it really good for him that he's getting all this attention from us? I don't want to sound mean, but maybe he really just has to deal with it by himself (like most of us who were in his shoes did).

That assumes he is seeking attention. I'll let Schultz be the one to correct me.

[Rufus]

A thought: James is going through a very common phenomenon: adolescent spiritual crisis.

Is it really good for him that he's getting all this attention from us? I don't want to sound mean, but maybe he really just has to deal with it by himself (like most of us who were in his shoes did).

That assumes he is seeking attention. I'll let Schultz be the one to correct me.

I don't know if he's seeking attention. But he sure is getting it.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The Honorable Bob Marley said it best when asked about the evolution of his faith.  He said, "Yeah, I discovered the spirit of God when I was just about 18, 19 stepping it up you know?"  ALL youth go through this, hence why the Siddhartha myth is so resonant in the first place, and we all discover that First Noble Truth. This is why I feel it is so important for to work with our youth ministries to help guide and mentor our young adults through these crises. We all had them, and we can all help to work with our youth through them.  Lets be honest, we all have them still all the time, there is no age-limit to spiritual crises.  All the more why we as a community need to be focusing our efforts on the youth.  The, "Let em fight it out" approach is not successful, and and it underplays those folks who mentored ourselves into our adulthood.  Personally, I wouldn't wish HALF of the misbehavior of my youth when as Bob said, I was "steppin up" and if I could help even a SINGLE youth  not make a SINGLE of my plethora of mistakes, I feel like Joseph saving his brothers

God bless all of y'all who have contributed positively on this thread to support our young brother, lets keep it up in our own parishes day by day, the youth are not just our future, they are our here and now, we need to empower them in the right directions.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

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