Topic: I am Godless

[Aindriú]

What is your favorite colour?

What is the wingspan of a swallow?

[Green_Umbrella]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

Not that old but old enough.

Old enough to have helped move a man dying of prostate cancer because his sheet was soiled in blood from bleeding of the anus and to hear him complaining of the pain. Old enough to know ¨God does not let me fornicate¨ to be a sad excuse for someone talking about their ¨suffering¨ and mocking God. I have never seen a dying person mock God. Never seen that. It is always someone self ¨enlightened¨ or someone who considers
themselves ¨smarter¨ than most. Always naive.

JamesR said...¨Consider this my religious resignation. I no longer want anything to do with God. I hate Him.¨

I accept his religious resignation. If that is the way he wants it. That is the way he gets it. Someone else said it, God does not need us, we need God. I see no reason to beg and plead with JamesR. He knows the score.

JamesR. Do save your anti God rantings for the Hitchen or Dawkins forums though. I for one am not really interested in hearing new atheisms rhetoric regurgitated over and over by people in their teens and 20s  from rich western nations who know jack-**** about life or human suffering.
Goodbye.  

[PeterTheAleut]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

Well, let us see. He says God is unfair. No, he goes beyond that and says he ¨hates¨ God. He says Satan is not such a bad guy. He says God is a ¨tyrant¨ He says he wishes he was the one who could have crucified God. He says God is a ¨monster¨

Yes I understand him perfect. He wants to move God to the side so he can go do whatever he wants. We are all...¨weak minded people and senile old folks¨ and he is  ¨more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me..¨ and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah. I have no trouble say we do not need Christians like him. I do not anyways.

Then its a good thing it doesn't matter at all what you "need" in the context of someone else's salvation.

Also saying what you've said can only serve to worsen James' state of mind. Anyone trying to drive someone who is already despairing and in pain away from Christianity is exactly the WORST thing you could be doing, its completely satanic.

No, what is Satanic is someone making excuses for someone who makes hate filled ranting posts against God.

Hey JamesR, you think you are so smart, you are not. You think you have the market covered on suffering, you do not. You think you are the only one who has to fight against passions, you are not. You think you are the only one who can make ranting post that you know many people will find offensive and insensitive, you are not. You are not special buddy. You hate God and want to rant against him, get lost. We do not want to hear it.

Speak for yourself, pal. If you are actually a team of posters submitting posts under the same one user account, then a few people here want to hear about it, since such behavior will get you banned from this forum. Otherwise, you are just one poster representing your point of view and your point of view only.

That said, I do agree with Schultz's perspective on the OP.

[Aindriú]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

Not that old but old enough.

Old enough to have helped move a man dying of prostate cancer because his sheet was soiled in blood from bleeding of the anus and to hear him complaining of the pain. Old enough to know ¨God does not let me fornicate¨ to be a sad excuse for someone talking about their ¨suffering¨ and mocking God. I have never seen a dying person mock God. Never seen that. It is always someone self ¨enlightened¨ or someone who considers
themselves ¨smarter¨ than most. Always naive.

So, probably not old enough to vote. Not old enough to understand his own faith he professes to hold.

The funny thing is, if Christianity doesn't need anyone, it's someone with an attitude like you. Oh, snap. The irony.

[88Devin12]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

This is a time when I wished that forums were more like Reddit and had a karma button that could hide posts with negative karma. I'd downvote this to hell.

[Aindriú]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

This is a time when I wished that forums were more like Reddit and had a karma button that could hide posts with negative karma. I'd downvote this to hell.

I do with this forum had a post AND a user rating. Good posts get users forum points.

[Cyrillic]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

Christianity does not need comments like these.

[88Devin12]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

This is a time when I wished that forums were more like Reddit and had a karma button that could hide posts with negative karma. I'd downvote this to hell.

I do with this forum had a post AND a user rating. Good posts get users forum points.

I know CF has a system like this, but a poster doesn't lose reputation points. I'd probably have a large amount of downvotes on here because of my irrational and emotional responses, but if a post gets hidden for it's negative views (one could still view it, but its hidden by default) that'd discourage such posts.

[Green_Umbrella]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

Not that old but old enough.
Old enough to have helped move a man dying of prostate cancer because his sheet was soiled in blood from bleeding of the anus and to hear him complaining of the pain. Old enough to know ¨God does not let me fornicate¨ to be a sad excuse for someone talking about their ¨suffering¨ and mocking God. I have never seen a dying person mock God. Never seen that. It is always someone self ¨enlightened¨ or someone who considers
themselves ¨smarter¨ than most. Always naive.

So, probably not old enough to vote. Not old enough to understand his own faith he professes to hold.
The funny thing is, if Christianity doesn't need anyone, it's someone with an attitude like you. Oh, snap. The irony.

What Christianity does not need is your weak, wishy-washy, feel good, sanitized religious attitude. It is pathetic. Truly pathetic.

[Green_Umbrella]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

Christianity does not need comments like these.

It needs comments like this more than ever.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

This thread is degenerating. I am calling for a recess for us to cool down a bit. I will unlock it next week. Thanks, Carl Kraeff

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I am unlocking it. Carl Kraeff

[Cyrillic]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

[Green_Umbrella]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I reopened it because I have a feeling that James will come back one day and that somehow both the positive and negative posts may have a role in his return. 

[JamesR]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

[NicholasMyra]

God should not allow us to endure the evil at all.

Why?

[biro]

There is no Christian teaching that Satan enlightened anyone.

[Papist]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

Do we really deserve better? How many of the "good" acts we commit are tainted by pride, envy, selfishness, etc?

[orthonorm]

I reopened it because I have a feeling that James will come back one day and that somehow both the positive and negative posts may have a role in his return. 

JamesR has gone all Sturm und Drang. He'll hit Neo-Classicism and be in the RCC within a decade. JamesR decided to follow the Goethe travelog of life.

He's always been touched a bit with the overly analytical. The Romans will love him.

Something to read along the way:

Shroud your heaven, Zeus,
With cloudy vapours,
And do as you will, like the boy
That knocks the heads off thistles,
With oak-trees and mountain-tops;
Now you must leave alone
My Earth for Me,
And my hut, which you did not build,
And my hearth,
The glowing whereof
You envy me.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Prometheus_(Goethe)

[Schultz]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

Do we really deserve better? How many of the "good" acts we commit are tainted by pride, envy, selfishness, etc?

We do deserve better.  WE have to make it so.  What JamesR wants is for someone else to do his dirty work so he doesn't have to. 

It all starts with you, not with someone else.  That's the lesson JamesR misses because he doesn't want to hear it, just like most people angry with a God they claim doesn't exist.

[Shanghaiski]

James,

See if you can do this three times to make a statement. Go to church, stand before the icon of Christ on the cross, point your finger at him and say with all the indignation you can muster, "You died for me and I don't give a damn!"

[Quinault]

I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.

I don't know why God allows suffering. I had an exceedingly difficult childhood. I have had the worst examples of maternal and paternal love possible. I could choose to take those examples and be angry. I could live wallowing in my own muck and mire cursing God. Almost anyone I know wouldn't fault me. A pedophile for a father, an abusive mother, an abusive step-father, every male or female adult figure in my life up to age 15 did their best to show me that life is unfair. The weak are preyed upon, strength is a virtue and weakness a curse.

There is a hope in knowing that despite the seemingly endless nights of suffering and torment as a child that I wasn't alone. My suffering wasn't something that delighted God. My life has a purpose, and if I choose it; my suffering can have a purpose as well. You can live your life cursing God for your trials and suffering. Or you can choose to ask God to help you forgive, heal and help others.

[vamrat]

I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.

I wonder if Quinault just cut to the quick.

[JamesR]

James,

See if you can do this three times to make a statement. Go to church, stand before the icon of Christ on the cross, point your finger at him and say with all the indignation you can muster, "You died for me and I don't give a damn!"

While I do feel that way, I do not think I could do it because I am afraid Christ would punish me. I cannot even keep eye contact with the Icon of Christ because whenever I look into His eyes I feel like He is angry with me. When I look into the eyes of the Icon of the Theotokos I feel like she feels sympathy for me, and when I look into the eyes of John the Baptist I feel like he is saying 'you know what you must do, why not do it?' but deep down I do not know what I am supposed to do. I honestly do not care that Christ died because I feel that it has not made any difference in my life at all. But blatantly pointing to His Icon and rudely condemning Him is something I am afraid to do. Satan may have been brave enough (or foolish enough) to risk punishment by opposing God in crazy ways, but I am not. I still recognize that He can punish me at any point.

[JamesR]

Forget it, I will just admit it. I cannot accept that challenge because deep down I still love and appreciate Him even when I do not understand Him and feel like I hate Him.

[dzheremi]

Well, good. Work with that. "Lord I believe, help my unbelief" and all that.

[Quinault]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.

My honest assessment? I think that both young men are focusing too much on themselves. Faith and belief are not about "us." No more than love is about "us." To truly love someone you have to think outside yourself. You can't focus on the self only. You can't have real faith in anything if you can't step outside of yourself. As much as we want to hate Muslims that are terrorists, you have to admit they are not thinking solely of themselves. They are committed to a faith and belief system so throughly that they are willing to sacrifice their very lives. In the US we go to church only when it "feels" good. We don't understand how to sacrifice *everything* for what we believe. We think that we have it so tough. We are so fortunate and blessed to live where and when we do. Even in our suffering, we are fortunate indeed.

Ah...maybe that is why Trevor blocked me. I am not the most sympathetic person when it comes to whining about how tough life is. Life is not fair, we don't get what we think we deserve. We can choose to move on with life past the pain, or we can choose to wallow. We can choose to make the low points in our lives define and haunt us, or we can choose to allow them to shape us into better people. Bitterness doesn't help anyone. We don't choose to believe or not to believe simply because life isn't fair. All the people I admire the most persevered in difficult times. No one every looks at the boy with the golden spoon in his mouth given everything, with a perfect life with respect. The experiences we have to draw from give us character and strength if we allow them to.

It is possible to see that life sucks, and people are awful and yet still believe there is a sovereign and just God. Or, you can wallow in the mud screaming woe is me while tearing your clothing, starving to death next to a banquet table. It is your choice.

[Quinault]

I am entirely pessimistic of people. I assume everyone will hurt me if given the chance (outside of a few select people and family). If I didn't believe there was a just and loving God it would be open season on humanity. The knowledge that humans are *capable* of goodness because there is a God is the only thing that keeps me from just treating life like the Hunger games.

I hope someday I will have some faith in humanity automatically. For now, it literally takes near a decade before I really trust anyone. This is a sad condition, but I am actively working on it. Believe it or not, I have made a great deal of progress despite how cynical I sound.

[JamesR]

I'll die in the mud with pride knowing I stood up against evil than to dine at a banquet with a monster.

[Quinault]

Pride...yep that is the key part here. When it comes to faith or belief, pride is something that will always be a hamper. You can have pride, or you can have faith. You can't have both.

You also can't have love and pride. For that, I really do pity you.

[JamesR]

Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all. I take pity in you for being a sheep. For all the suffering we have endured, you choose to kiss the behind of the guy who allowed it to happen while I choose to oppose Him and finally stand up and do something about it. I create my own happiness. I achieve my potential. You allow yourself to be bound by a deadbeat father. If anything, some of the most morally enlightened people were godless. Ever notice that God sanctioned genocide and allows everyone to die, whereas the Devil never killed a single person?

[Quinault]

I think if we compared lives/happiness I am ahead of you by a bit. I have been with the same man almost 20 years, I have 5 beautiful kids. I am happy, I hope you can be happy someday. If there is one thing in this train of thought you have made abundantly clear, it is that you are most decidedly not happy.

[Quinault]

Let's just propose for a moment you are right. God cares nothing for us and it is pointless to worship him. I live my life happily and end my days believing in Him for naught. What possible harm have I done to my soul? People hurt me. God at best was there for me when I chose to pick up the pieces. At worst he sat by while I was hurt. In either case he wasn't the one actually hurting me. My father, my mother, my step father and countless other people used me up like trash and threw me away. If I were to look at my value from earthly terms I would agree with my abusers that I am only worth what can be forcibly taken from me. Indeed, faith may be for the weak. But I would rather be weak and have value in the eyes of a God that may not be there, than be "strong" and have no value in the eyes of men.

[dzheremi]

What gets me about all this "why does God have us experience hardship" stuff is, well, who told you it would be otherwise? Christ our God explicitly said that it's really going to suck a lot of the time to be His followers (not in those exact words, of course). All the great saints from the days of the early church through today have affirmed that in having led hard lives, being martyrs or passion-bearers, etc. Not part of "Christian" spells 'easy'. I listened to a sermon a long time ago when I was first becoming seriously interested in Orthodoxy where the priest put it like this: "Do you all remember the story about the saint who praised God from his comfortable bed, whenever he bothered to wake up, without ever leaving his warm sheets or lifting a finger to exert himself in worshiping God? ...No? That's right, because he doesn't exist."

But if you think the struggle is tough with God, without Him it is impossible. You might feel "better" because you stop struggling, and hence trick yourself into thinking your hardships are over because you have stopped living with God, but you'll find out too late the difference between victory in Christ and giving up in laziness and selfishness. Lord have mercy. The key to the Christian life, like any kind of life, is endurance. But while the Christian endurance is to a good end with eternal life at its summit, away from God you might live a long life only to find out that the time you spent not training your body and soul was the last trouble-free time you'll have. And then it is suddenly not the obvious choice for the person who wants to be free of hardship and pain.

[Quinault]

Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all.

The fact that you are 16 is very telling in this statement.

[Kerdy]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

You supply a lot of statements but can you support the why of those statements?  See the bolded portion...Why not?

[Kerdy]

God should not allow us to endure the evil at all.

Why?

You beat me to it.

[Deborah]

I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.

I wonder if Quinault just cut to the quick.

Too right she did.  Sheltering children from everything, the realities of life and responsibility for anything, is just as destructive as abuse.  The consequences from such an upbringing is all-encompassing and pervasive throughout your life.  I had such an upbringing, and have much garbage to work through.  This paragraph alone is deserving of post of the month.

[Kerdy]

I'll die in the mud with pride knowing I stood up against evil than to dine at a banquet with a monster.

So you now realize Satan is a foolish evil being and like Jesus again?  Awesome!

[Nicene]

Im just curious James, why do you deserve better? Simply because you think you deserve better or is there an objective reason?

[Quinault]

You do realize though that at 16 you have barely encountered hardship, right? Being a teen certainly isn't easy. But life becomes more...ah...complicated as you get older. And raging against God for creating hardship is like raging against the ocean for a tsunami. It doesn't really accomplish anything, you don't prevent destruction from occurring.

My life was hard..I mean HARD growing up. In all honesty I have encountered more traumatizing and difficult things as an adult. I have had greater control, which makes it harder. At least as a child I had no control, thus no real responsibility for my suffering. I hate to tell you, but it doesn't really get better contrary to what the viral videos say. It gets easier, but it never really gets better. It only gets easier when you learn to deal with it rather than get angry.

Obviously you can tell by my last statement that I don't see life as all sunshine and happiness. Obviously I don't want to raise completely cynical children. The only honest answer I can give when my kids notice suffering is that it is present in life. We live our lives to the best of our ability. Often people hurt us, or we see the ones we love hurting. We teach them that when you can ease the suffering of another person you should always try to do something. In those times we feel helpless, prayer is the only answer when action isn't an option. We may not get what we want, but life isn't about that. Faith isn't about getting what we want either. Prayer doesn't change the heart of God, it changes our hearts. God isn't waiting for the "magic words" before He intervenes.

In all honesty; if you think the suffering of humanity you see is too much, why is your first reaction anger with God? Your first reaction should be to DO SOMETHING. The fact that your kneejerk reaction to the suffering of others is to internalize it and use it "against" God is further proof of your pride and selfishness. I doubt the homeless people on the street are comforted by your wrath with God.

Hate God if you like, it really only hurts you. But if you see suffering in others your responsible for that suffering if you don't do something when you can. See a homeless person without a coat? Get them a coat. You have the power to be the change you want to see. But you would have to look outside of yourself and get your face out of your bellybutton.

At least Trevor is organizing blood drives...

[JamesR]

For your information, every bit of money I have been making has been going into a charity jar I started at the beginning of the year that I plan to donate at the end of the year and despite my obsession with money, most of the money I make goes to help other people, even when it discomforts me. I did this all without God. To answer the question others have been asking--why do I deserve better/why should God end suffering? Because I am God's responsibility. The entire creation is God's responsibility. If anyone should fix it then it should be Him. God is like Dr. Frankenstein in that He created a monster and blames the monster for its evil and allows it to do evil when He is the one responsible for it. I'm no longer asking God for a handout. I know that He is not going to do anything. So I am creating my own justice, trying to attain my own happiness and helping others do the same. I oftentimes hear people say that God helps you to do good. I disagree. Without God I can do more good than I was ever able to do before. For starters, instead of always daydreaming about some other transcendent 'Second Coming' world that you all dream of, I create the world I want right now as we speak through every dollar I give to a homeless person. This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now. Earlier you brought up Pascal's Wager by stating how even if God was evil, then you are at least still happy from worshipping Him. I disagree with you. While you may find happiness in Him, I do not. The way I see it is that either way I am going to die in the end whether I am happy or sad. I figure I might as well indulge and be happy in this life living godless than to be tied down and miserable worshipping God only to still die in the end.

[Quinault]

"Second Coming"? Did you pay any attention in your catechism? I think you are mistaking Orthodoxy for dispensationalism.

You aren't happy though. So obviously you are "doing it wrong." If you were truly comfortable in agnosticism, you wouldn't be so angry. Not to mention, you still haven't changed your board profile information to reflect your "new enlightenment" to how evil and capricious God is. Nonetheless, my point remains; I am happier than you even if I am "wrong." Once you are happy, maybe your argument will hold some weight. I still see an angry teen in your postings, not a rational person that has found some sense.

[JamesR]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.