I am Godless

[JamesR]

Upon advice from an anonymous friend, I took a break from this forum to get my thoughts together and try to understand who I am. And during that time, I had a revelation that most of you will disapprove of. I am godless. I am tired of adhering to something I do not understand and worshipping a Divine god whom I do not like. So go ahead, Achronos, laugh, you were correct in predicting my path to godlessness.

I would not say that I am necessarily an atheist as in I do not believe in God, but that I do believe in Him but hate him with a burning passion. Perhaps I am even a Luciferanian. When I really look at it, why is the Devil do bad? He is the lightbearer who finally had the nerve to step up to God--the Divine tyrant--and teach us to do the same. God is omnipotent yet He lets us suffer miserably. Lucifer is not omnipotent and therefore cannot stop our suffering, but at least to the very best of his ability he tries to urge us to liberate ourselves from God. He represents true freedom and tolerance.

I hate God. He is nothing but a deadbeat father yet I am supposed to adhere to a religion all about Him. My first thoughts are honestly **** Him. Where was He when I was a scared little kid, where was He when my parents where abusing me or when my mom miscarried or when my father relapsed and I was all alone? Hiding behind His lazy 'free will' cop-out or having His clergy tell us that the world has not been 'fully redeemed' yet and is still 'fallen'? Well why don't the lazy **** take responsibility for the state of His creation and do something to fix it?

The excuse I always hear is the Incarnation. But honestly, what difference does it make? People still suffer, I still had it miserably, we still all die in the end. Likewise, what is it with worshipping God for becoming man and dying? It was not a gift; He owed it to us since we are His fault anyway. Why worship Him for taking responsibility? Hell, I wish I was the one who could have crucified Him--it would be good payback for all the crap He let me go through.

Going even further, this deadbeat father even has the nerve to judge us when He was never there and is the one who created us/allowed us to be born into circumstances with urges and factors that make us sin. And His bat**** crazy adherents do the same. I can't fornicate even though He allowed be to be born with horny animalistic passions, I cannot steal even though He lets people live in poverty and I cannot murder even though He allows me to be born with a temper. There is no such thing as freewill. Period. God is a monster who allows us to be born screwed up and then condemns us for the way we are. It is all His fault.

And look at what this does to His adherents. Parents do all sorts of crazy **** to their kids because of religion--ie circumcise them, Baptise them, fill their heads with silly superstitions and worries, tell them they are worthless compared to this transcendent guy in the sky and teach them to be ashamed of their bodies and pubescent passions. As if that were not enough, they teach them intolerance toward homosexuals and certain types of people and ultimately divide society all because of religion. I hate religion.

Religion says that my mom is a whore for having me outside of marriage because of some dumb 'sacramental' ****. It says that the horribly dysfunctional heterosexual couple is okay yet the successful homosexual relationship of 30 years that my neighbor has is evil in the eyes of God. It tells me to condemn my passions and judge others, adhering to a strict and silly ethical system.

Quite frankly, I am becoming much more postmodern and relativistic in my ethics. I love all kinds of people (except old religious people and conservatives). I am not going to condemn fornication because I came from it nor am I going to judge homosexuality. Who am I to say whether fornicators or homosexuals love each other or not? I am not going to tell people how to live their lives or how to have sex. I am going to love everyone and urge everyone to indulge in their passions.

Satan is really not a bad guy. He advocates total tolerance for everyone and true freedom to do whatever we want and become the best we can be. God just holds me back, I feel like He is an obstacle in my intellectual life and always tries to bind me down to some outdated, intolerant and silly ethical system. Religion ruins everything. I hate it. I hate how old people and Southerners try to bring it into everything. It is jus another stupid and illogical conservative idealogy that senile old people and weak-minded folks adhere to just because it is old.

Ever since childhood I always had people bossing me around and telling me what I can and cannot do, telling me to be grateful and humble. But what is so great about humbleness and humility? These terms are just polite ways of saying to be a weak pushover. I deserve more and for once I am acknowledging it. God owes me. The world owes me. And instead of submitting I am finally going to spoil myself and indulge in all of my passions--as the good Lucifer would advocate. I want money and women. I openly admit it. No need in being ashamed of my passions anymore, I no longer have that divine tyrant binding me down.

God only leads to suffering but indulging in your passions brings happiness. Screw all that crap about money can't buy happiness. Because poverty is no picnic either. Money can make me happy and it is all that I want and have wanted for quite a while now. Since I never had it as a child I think it is about time I spoiled myself to some money and indulgence. I for once feel liberated and free. And I deserve the pleasure to compensate for all the misery God allowed me to endure.

I am tired of being bound by God and His outdated ethics and having to be ashamed of myself and suppress all my passions, ambitions, intellect and potential. For once I can really be a that I can be. I am more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me, so why adhere to illogical beliefs and hang around God's flock which is generally full of weak minded people and senile old folks? Why suppress my passions any longer? God allowed me to have them.

Satan tells me to pursue my ambitions and be all that I can truly be. He is tolerant towards everyone and urges us to reach our true potential. Do you realize how liberating this is compared to Christianity? Hell, Christianity even makes it harder for me to do good because it preaches intolerance. Without Christianity I can truly accept someone no matter what they may be like or what lifestyle they may live whereas in Christisnity I have to condemn them.

Consider this my religious resignation. I no longer want anything to do with God. I hate Him. And I won't submit to a deadbeat father. I'll do whatever makes me happy and I no longer give a rat's **** about what He thinks. Unless He stops all the suffering in the world and becomes accepting/tolerant of all people, I will have nothing to do with Him.

I have failed you all. I am no longer this great Orthodox kid with all this religious saintly potential that many of you think I have. I am just broken and think that I will find happiness in the dark side. An ex-Orthodox Anakin Skywalker. I imagine I will keep this a secret and still attend my Church, just so that my parents do not discover my godlessness and try to convert me back to Protestantism.

Wish me luck, but don't waste your time and pray. There is no old for me to return back to God's chains.

You are free to rant and rail against God on this forum, (though maybe not on the Faith Issues board, but I'll let this section's moderator decide that). What you are not free to do is lace your rant with obscenities and profanities as you have so done. Therefore, you are receiving this warning to last for the next 40 days. During this time, please find more appropriate ways to express your rage against God on this forum. If you think this action wrong, please appeal it to me via private message.

-PeterTheAleut

This thread was moved to the Religious Topics since you have declared you are not Christian any longer - Michał Kalina.

[Achronos]

I don't have any words.

May you find peace and happiness in whatever you decide to do, JamesR. If you need someone to talk to, please don't hesitate to PM me.

[Kerdy]

Is this a joke?

Somehow, James, I don't think argument will hold water when the time comes.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I do not judge you, nor do your words make me angry. I cannot help but to believe that those who so honestly and boldly express their displeasure with God are actually quite near to Him. In spite of your advice that I not pray for you, I will pray my unworthy prayers nonetheless.

"Lord have mercy."


Selam

[Jason.Wike]

God only leads to suffering but indulging in your passions brings happiness.

Indulgence in passions only brings temporary happiness. It will wear off after a while, the things that bring you happiness will become boring, even your senses will become dulled. You'll seek new things but they'll become boring too. Nothing in this world can give you true happiness, unconditional happiness that isn't based on how your day is going or if you are indulging your self. If you look for it in this world eventually you'll loose yourself, you won't even know who or what you are anymore.

When you put your passions in control you think you are taking over, that you are taking the reins of your life to make it whatever you want it to be. But you're actually giving control over to something else and loosing control.

But you'll probably have to learn that yourself.

[ironchapman]

I do not judge you, nor do your words make me angry. I cannot help but to believe that those who so honestly and boldly express their displeasure with God are actually quite near to Him. In spite of your advice that I not pray for you, I will pray my unworthy prayers nonetheless.

"Lord have mercy."


Selam

I'm with Gebre on this one. I cannot think of any better way to put it.

[Ansgar]

James, what you have discovered is called maltheism(probably mixed with a portion of satanism). Maltheists are not atheists, since they acknowledge the existense of God However, they do, for various resons, feel a burning hatred against Him and wish to oppose Him.

I can't give you much advice, but I will say this. Happiness and freedom is defined very differently from person to person. It can be hard to tell which definition is real. I have chosen to accept a faith which tells me to try and see the good in all things. There is a saying: "Before one can experience 10000 joys, one must go through 10000 sorrows.

Thus, some of the greatest human beings have gone through much suffering to achieve great happiness. I believe that this applies to us all.  

May the Lord, through the prayers of the holy saint Silouan the Athonite, have mercy on you and help you.

[jmbejdl]

I do not judge you, nor do your words make me angry. I cannot help but to believe that those who so honestly and boldly express their displeasure with God are actually quite near to Him. In spite of your advice that I not pray for you, I will pray my unworthy prayers nonetheless.

"Lord have mercy."


Selam

I'm with Gebre on this one. I cannot think of any better way to put it.

And I.

To be honest, James sounds like any number of teenagers - I've been there myself. God willing, when he calms down, grows up (I know you probably already think you are grown James and this is not meant to insult you but I can't think of a better way of putting it) and reappraises his life, he'll come back to the Church.

Know, James, that if and when you are through this, the Church and God will be there to welcome you back with open arms.

James

[dzheremi]

You are still a young man. Chances are you will go through many such revelatory eras in your life, full of their own bold, declarative statements which you will eventually think better than to hash out publicly as you've done here. I myself lived if not as an atheist, exactly, then certainly as an agnostic for about a decade after my mother passed away when I was a few years younger than you are now. I didn't understand -- well, more couldn't understand -- how a supposedly loving God could take a mother from her two not yet grown children, and what's more one who loved Him as much as my mother did. Of course, now the answer seems almost obvious (the lovers of God desire Him more than life, and He, loving them as He does, grants their wishes), but I wouldn't really get it for many years.

This isn't my way of saying "You'll grow out of it" or "You're young and dumb" or anything like that, by the way. Ours is a free faith, and you are not required to come back. I just hope that you have all the time in the world to learn the lessons you can only learn with time. I mean, not to harp on the point, but your faith status still says "just baptized", so it's not crazy to wonder if there's something to be said in waiting until you are a little less impulsive before deciding what you believe about God.

As to the passions and all that, Lord have mercy, because there but by the grace of God we would all be, and also thank God that He lets His sun shine upon us all, regardless of where we are. This might be a weird note to end on, but as 17th century Yemenite Rabbi Shalom Shabazi put it, even if the gates of the wealthy are closed, the gates of heaven will never be closed. Something to think about in this life, at least.

Be well.

[Kerdy]

James, I'm going to give you a real life reason why giving into your passions and ignoring Gods wisdom is a bad idea.  I'll withhold names and keep it short.  Years ago I knew a Young lady, smart and beautiful with all the world in front of her.  Decided fornication wasn't a bad thing.  She died of AIDS at 16.  She most likely would have lived a long life and become a grandmother, but she thought as you do now and felt she was smarter than God.  Some people blamed God, but he tried to protect her and she ignored him.  I still wonder sometimes what she would be doing today.  None of us are as smart as we wish we were.  Just be cautious in your new found "freedom" as it can quickly become your own personal prison.

[primuspilus]

Ah the silliness of youth.

PP

[vamrat]

James, you play with fire.  You are angling for the wrong sort of attention here.  Just go streaking or dye your hair blue or something.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

In trying to figure out why, I am torn between adolescence and the Evil One as the culprit. May be both. In any case, I do not think that this JamersR is the last word because I remember another JamesR before and he will come back in due course. In the meantime, I pray that the following petitions reawaken in JamesR's soul and effect his return:

"An angel of peace, a faithful guide, a guardian of our souls and
bodies, let us ask of the Lord.

Pardon and forgiveness of our sins and transgressions, let us ask of
the Lord.

All things good and profitable for our souls and peace for the world,
let us ask of the Lord.

That we may complete the remaining time of our life in peace and
repentance, let us ask of the Lord.

A Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful and a
good defense before the fearful judgment seat of Christ, let us ask."

Grant this O Lord and have mercy on your servant James, receive him back as the father received his prodigal son and forgive him as You forgave the good thief.

[Ashman618]

Please please please fight these thoughts, no matter how hard it is to resist them no matter how much they feel to be all true fight them. And though you may perceive that God does not love your or care or He's not there. Even though I'm a complete stranger at least know that I and the rest of the people here do. My prayer for you is that you comeback and read these posts.

[LizaSymonenko]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.

I do wonder if we somehow contributed to this. Lord have mercy!

[TristanCross]

Lord have mercy.

James, if you ever need any help or wish to talk to someone you are free to message me, even if it is not religion-based discussion. I won't judge for profanity either (I guarentee I have a worse mouth in real life than anyone here).

[Nathanael]

The best answer can give you someone who went through all the abysses of human existence, from total atheism, indivudalism to all the other religions like TM meditations, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, then to Christianity and at the end to Orthodoxy. And this man is called: Klaus Kenneth

To the question "Why not just accept your life? Why even bring religion into it? Why not just accept human nature and say ‘This is life’?"
Klaus answered:

“Because you feel that is not life,” he replies. “It’s a wrong life. That is what society calls life. But inside my heart, when I went to bed after my stories with alcohol, sex and whatever – I felt alone. And that is not life.”

His book is incredible, his life is incredible.

Born to Hate Reborn to Love: A Spiritual Odyssey from Head to Heart, by Klaus Kenneth
http://thaborian.com/bookstore_120620_2.html

[Orthodox11]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

I don't think they're lost in the wilderness, but have decided to be open and honest about what they truly believe rather than repressing things behind a wall of zeal. The holy men and women of the Bible are not presented to us as flawless examples of unquestioning faith and obedience, but of brutally honest people who struggled with fear, doubt, who questioned God and got angry with Him at times. Salvation is a relationship with Christ, a relationship of love. Such a relationship cannot be established without honesty. God does not require servitude or bondage. Legalistic submission to a tyrannical god of legalism will not bring salvation, and if that's what James is now reacting against, this is not a loss, but - if he choses - a new beginning and a chance to encounter the true God in whom he can find peace rather than oppression.

On a more general point, not related to James, I think clergy should be more careful about admitting young people in their formative years who come to the Church alone, without the support of friends or family, especially if they're struggling with emotional or psychological problems. People tend to think of the catechumenate too much in terms of education. The catechumenate should not just be a period of instruction, but a time when a person can enter into the spiritual life of the Church at their own pace rather than being thrown in at the deep end before they're emotionally and spiritually ready for it.

[Schultz]

You are Godless?

Perhaps.

But you're also being a self-aggrandizing attention whore, but that's what a teenage boy is when he has something like the internet at his disposal.  Knock it off and grow up.

Oh, and Carl, we had little to do with this.  Many of us saw this coming from a mile away and he would've done this no matter who he had contact with.  The only person who should shoulder any blame other than James himself is his priest who baptised this immature child without much of a support network, but I'm sure he already knows that.

[vamrat]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.

Wait...what?  What happened to Trevor?

[Schultz]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.

Wait...what?  What happened to Trevor?

Update on Trevor

[Papist]

I think every believer has grappled with the problem of evil at some point in his or her life. C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain offers excellent intellectual answers to these questions. However, those intellectual answers do little to help with the emotional trauma of real life suffering. Friendship and love are the best things that I suppose we can offer people like James.

James, I understand your frustration. I grappled with these very things as a teenager and as a young adult. Just know that as you grow, you may gain a different perspective on the matter. Don't close yourself off to that possibility. Keep an open mind.

[genesisone]

I had lunch on Sunday with three young men - mid 20s to early 30s - a pair of brothers who had been born into a very nominal Greek Orthodox family, the third being a friend of theirs since high school and from an even less than nominal Protestant family. The three of them in their late teens were not practising any religion whatsoever and were involved in a wide range of worldly endeavours. Somewhere along the way, they did begin a quest for spiritual truth. They wandered about in all sorts of directions - a bit of Hinduism, Messianic Judaism, Mormonism, JW, etc. - and eventually found their way back to Orthodoxy and recognized there the truth (or should I say Truth?) they were looking for. I'm not clear as to how recent that was, but I don't think it could have been more than two, possibly three, years. God willing, the friend will be baptized in our church this coming Saturday. Glory to God!

My point is that if James and Trevor truly desire to find the truth, I expect that in time, they will return to Orthodoxy when they are more mature and ready to submit to all that is necessary for spiritual growth. Yes, we should worry a bit about the wandering sheep, but we on this forum can do little about bringing them back except prayer. The more immediate responsibility lies with the priest and parish who accepted that responsibility by welcoming and receiving them.

Perhaps this is a wake-up call for us to take a look at our own parishes to see who's missing.

[LizaSymonenko]

All very good points, genesisone!

Perhaps it is time to reach out more to folks.

[vamrat]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.

Wait...what?  What happened to Trevor?

Update on Trevor

Wow.  I hadn't seen that.  God be with him.  I know I've felt doubts before and it is the worst feeling in the world.  Thank God they pass after enough time.

[ironchapman]

Let me add Peter Hitchens' The Rage Against God (he's brother of famous atheist Christopher Hitchens)

[orthonorm]

Don't close yourself off to that possibility. Keep an open mind.

He is constitutional incapable of doing otherwise.

[augustin717]

It's not an easy place, and I'm not sarcastic as usual. At least some have the luxury of maintaining a casual, nominal-ish relationship with the tribal religion.

[TristanCross]

You are Godless?

Perhaps.

But you're also being a self-aggrandizing attention whore, but that's what a teenage boy is when he has something like the internet at his disposal.  Knock it off and grow up.

Oh, and Carl, we had little to do with this.  Many of us saw this coming from a mile away and he would've done this no matter who he had contact with.  The only person who should shoulder any blame other than James himself is his priest who baptised this immature child without much of a support network, but I'm sure he already knows that.

This doesn't help at all. All posts like this do is fuel the fire.

[Schultz]

You are Godless?

Perhaps.

But you're also being a self-aggrandizing attention whore, but that's what a teenage boy is when he has something like the internet at his disposal.  Knock it off and grow up.

Oh, and Carl, we had little to do with this.  Many of us saw this coming from a mile away and he would've done this no matter who he had contact with.  The only person who should shoulder any blame other than James himself is his priest who baptised this immature child without much of a support network, but I'm sure he already knows that.

This doesn't help at all. All posts like this do is fuel the fire.

And all the coddling has done what? 

Tough love situation, folks. 

[Alpo]

At least some have the luxury of maintaining a casual, nominal-ish relationship with the tribal religion.

Some? Why not everyone?

[primuspilus]

I just dont understand how someone can say they are atheists and then say they hate God. Sounds to me like a case of sour grapes.

I agree with Schultz. I hope James comes out of his funk, but I wont coddle him. I think part of his problem might be (from observation on here only) that he tends to fly by the seat of his pants, letting his emotions guide him where ever they flow.

He needs to calm down and think things through.

PP

[augustin717]

At least some have the luxury of maintaining a casual, nominal-ish relationship with the tribal religion.

Some? Why not everyone?

Everyone, but tribal religions are different. Anyways it's not that important, although, I must say, the orthodox at least, offer decent funerals.

[Aindriú]

Let me add Peter Hitchens' The Rage Against God (he's brother of famous atheist Christopher Hitchens)

Yes, very good book.

[Asteriktos]

Never has the "u mad" meme been more accurate, and yet more distasteful to be used.

[Ansgar]

I just dont understand how someone can say they are atheists and then say they hate God. Sounds to me like a case of sour grapes.

I don't think he claims to be an atheist.

[vamrat]

You are Godless?

Perhaps.

But you're also being a self-aggrandizing attention whore, but that's what a teenage boy is when he has something like the internet at his disposal.  Knock it off and grow up.

Oh, and Carl, we had little to do with this.  Many of us saw this coming from a mile away and he would've done this no matter who he had contact with.  The only person who should shoulder any blame other than James himself is his priest who baptised this immature child without much of a support network, but I'm sure he already knows that.

This doesn't help at all. All posts like this do is fuel the fire.

And all the coddling has done what? 

Tough love situation, folks. 

Precisely.

First he was on his way to becoming a Bishop, then he hated Protestants and this led to him wanting to marry an Orthodox, Catholic or Atheist girl but not a Protestant because at least the atheist would be good in bed, then he became horny, then he got mad that God "made" us horny but wouldn't let us fornicate, then he turned into a Communist, now he's a horny malatheist communard.

The best thing we all can do is stop giving him the attention and let him think things through.

Thus I propose we derail the attention-thread.



Hey Marc, I hear Isa was saying that there are maps that prove that the paleo diet is bogus.



There.  That should do it.

[Achronos]

I don't know if it's right to completely dismiss him as an attention whore, there maybe more going on in the background than we realize.

[Ansgar]

I don't know if it's right to completely dismiss him as an attention whore, there maybe more going on in the background than we realize.

I agree with this. Judging from what he has told us, James haven't had what I would call the easiest childhood. There could be many reasons to why he is having these inner conflicts.

[orthonorm]

I don't know if it's right to completely dismiss him as an attention whore, there maybe more going on in the background than we realize.

I agree with this. Judging from what he has told us, James haven't had what I would call the easiest childhood. There could be many reasons to why he is having these inner conflicts.

In America, we put such people on ice floes and tell them to figure it out and call it love.

[Achronos]

I don't know if it's right to completely dismiss him as an attention whore, there maybe more going on in the background than we realize.

I agree with this. Judging from what he has told us, James haven't had what I would call the easiest childhood. There could be many reasons to why he is having these inner conflicts.

In America, we put such people on ice floes and tell them to figure it out and call it love.

[Cyrillic]

Why not read the Stoics if you want to read non-Christian answers on your objections? Seneca, for example. Pick up a few copies of his works. I advice De Providentia. The Stoics answered your objections pretty well (although perhaps a little different than the holy fathers).

[Schultz]

I don't know if it's right to completely dismiss him as an attention whore, there maybe more going on in the background than we realize.

I agree with this. Judging from what he has told us, James haven't had what I would call the easiest childhood. There could be many reasons to why he is having these inner conflicts.

Until we've had independent confirmation, whatever a teenage boys tells me over the internet about his personal life, especially his childhood, is immediately suspect.

The same goes for most women no matter their age.

[Ansgar]

I don't know if it's right to completely dismiss him as an attention whore, there maybe more going on in the background than we realize.

I agree with this. Judging from what he has told us, James haven't had what I would call the easiest childhood. There could be many reasons to why he is having these inner conflicts.

In America, we put such people on ice floes and tell them to figure it out and call it love.

A very zen-like solution.

[Schultz]

I don't know if it's right to completely dismiss him as an attention whore, there maybe more going on in the background than we realize.

I agree with this. Judging from what he has told us, James haven't had what I would call the easiest childhood. There could be many reasons to why he is having these inner conflicts.

In America, we put such people on ice floes and tell them to figure it out and call it love.

Ice floes?  Lucky.  In my day, people were only given a piece of driftwood to hang on to.  Ice floe...pshaw!

[Achronos]

The same goes for most women no matter their age.

Let me tell you about this date I once had...

[Cyrillic]

At least this thread taught me not to rush things when I enter the catechumenate, a valuable lesson.

Another lesson learnt from Trevor and James: Hyperdox Hermans get burnouts quickly, so don't overdo it.

[vamrat]

The same goes for most women no matter their age.

Let me tell you about this date I once had...

I could probably tell the same story...

[LizaSymonenko]

....you are just meeting the wrong women.

[Achronos]

....you are just meeting the wrong women.

That wouldn't happen so much if the right women weren't already taken.

[vamrat]

....you are just meeting the wrong women.

Yep.  Lots and lots of them.   

[Achronos]

....you are just meeting the wrong women.

Yep.  Lots and lots of them.   

It's getting harder these days to find a woman without alot of baggage.

[Rufus]

I imagine I will keep this a secret and still attend my Church, just so that my parents do not discover my godlessness and try to convert me back to Protestantism.

Probably a good idea, in my personal estimation.

An ex-Orthodox Anakin Skywalker.

Stop watching Star Wars.

[Agabus]

I imagine I will keep this a secret and still attend my Church, just so that my parents do not discover my godlessness and try to convert me back to Protestantism.

Probably a good idea, in my personal estimation.

An ex-Orthodox Anakin Skywalker.

Stop watching Star Wars.

In the end, Anakin turned from the dark side, you know.

It is kind of a nerdy reference re: apostasy, however.

[Severian]

May the Lord have mercy on you for your blasphemies. I say this with all the sincerity I can possibly muster.

[Shanghaiski]

You are Godless?

Perhaps.

But you're also being a self-aggrandizing attention whore, but that's what a teenage boy is when he has something like the internet at his disposal.  Knock it off and grow up.

Oh, and Carl, we had little to do with this.  Many of us saw this coming from a mile away and he would've done this no matter who he had contact with.  The only person who should shoulder any blame other than James himself is his priest who baptised this immature child without much of a support network, but I'm sure he already knows that.

This doesn't help at all. All posts like this do is fuel the fire.

And all the coddling has done what? 

Tough love situation, folks. 

Precisely.

First he was on his way to becoming a Bishop, then he hated Protestants and this led to him wanting to marry an Orthodox, Catholic or Atheist girl but not a Protestant because at least the atheist would be good in bed, then he became horny, then he got mad that God "made" us horny but wouldn't let us fornicate, then he turned into a Communist, now he's a horny malatheist communard.

The best thing we all can do is stop giving him the attention and let him think things through.

Thus I propose we derail the attention-thread.



Hey Marc, I hear Isa was saying that there are maps that prove that the paleo diet is bogus.



There.  That should do it.

O rats. I was going to do the Paleo diet! What now? Are there any map-supported diets? Isa, help!

[NicholasMyra]

picture tags editted - MK

[NightOwl]

Well... this is a real wake-up call for me and I imagine other catechumens who have been struggling lately.   Lord have mercy...

[Kerdy]

Well... this is a real wake-up call for me and I imagine other catechumens who have been struggling lately.   Lord have mercy...

My advice to all people, especially catechumens, is to always remember the world does not contain the answers the human heart seeks.  This leads to realizing the worlds advice is usually wrong.

[Michał Kalina]

I do wonder if we somehow contributed to this. Lord have mercy!

Do you think there should be an age limit or moratorium on 500 words + confession posts?

[neon_knights]

This is very disheartening, I hope you will find your way James.

[Jetavan]

....you are just meeting the wrong women.

Yep.  Lots and lots of them.   

It's getting harder these days to find a woman without alot of baggage.

...especially at the airport.

[Asteriktos]

These threads never end well. Or... um... begin well. Nevermind.

[Sinful Hypocrite]

This one reminded me of the book of Job, Where all the friends try and explain his problems.When all they really can do is just be there for him.

[Green_Umbrella]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

[Achronos]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

[dzheremi]

No. Com'on, that's garbage, Green Umbrella. Even if JamesR were just looking for attention or whatever, it's still not a good thing that this is happening. Christianity may not "need" a person like James (an odd idea), but a person like James certainly needs Christianity. A person like me does, too. We all do.

[Green_Umbrella]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

[Achronos]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

[Cavaradossi]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

That is not for you to decide unless you are a bishop, invested with the power to bind and loose.

[William]

Sometimes I feel like the meekness on this forum is a bit much.

James said he believes in God but hates Him and loves Satan. It does not get more blasphemous than that. Someone get out the fire and brimstone!

[Achronos]

Sometimes I feel like the meekness on this forum is a bit much.

James said he believes in God but hates Him and loves Satan. It does not get more blasphemous than that. Someone get out the fire and brimstone!

Better than hubris.

And really his comment was completely uncalled for.

[Aindriú]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

Christianity doesn't "need" anyone. We need Christianity.

[William]

Sometimes I feel like the meekness on this forum is a bit much.

James said he believes in God but hates Him and loves Satan. It does not get more blasphemous than that. Someone get out the fire and brimstone!

Better than hubris.

And really his comment was completely uncalled for.

Also, Achronos, would you like your money by mail or PayPal?

[Achronos]

Sometimes I feel like the meekness on this forum is a bit much.

James said he believes in God but hates Him and loves Satan. It does not get more blasphemous than that. Someone get out the fire and brimstone!

Better than hubris.

And really his comment was completely uncalled for.

Also, Achronos, would you like your money by mail or PayPal?

LOL did we wager a bet on him?

[Green_Umbrella]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

Well, let us see. He says God is unfair. No, he goes beyond that and says he ¨hates¨ God. He says Satan is not such a bad guy. He says God is a ¨tyrant¨ He says he wishes he was the one who could have crucified God. He says God is a ¨monster¨

Yes I understand him perfect. He wants to move God to the side so he can go do whatever he wants. We are all...¨weak minded people and senile old folks¨ and he is  ¨more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me..¨ and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah. I have no trouble say we do not need Christians like him. I do not anyways.

[Achronos]

Glad to see when the prodigal son comes back you won't be there with open arms.

[Jason.Wike]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

Well, let us see. He says God is unfair. No, he goes beyond that and says he ¨hates¨ God. He says Satan is not such a bad guy. He says God is a ¨tyrant¨ He says he wishes he was the one who could have crucified God. He says God is a ¨monster¨

Yes I understand him perfect. He wants to move God to the side so he can go do whatever he wants. We are all...¨weak minded people and senile old folks¨ and he is  ¨more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me..¨ and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah. I have no trouble say we do not need Christians like him. I do not anyways.

Then its a good thing it doesn't matter at all what you "need" in the context of someone else's salvation.

Also saying what you've said can only serve to worsen James' state of mind. Anyone trying to drive someone who is already despairing and in pain away from Christianity is exactly the WORST thing you could be doing, its completely satanic.

[Green_Umbrella]

Glad to see when the prodigal son comes back you won't be there with open arms.

Oh I love a prodigal son as much as the next, but that is not where this person is right now. Quite the opposite actually.

[Achronos]

Glad to see when the prodigal son comes back you won't be there with open arms.

Oh I love a prodigal son as much as the next, but that is not where this person is right now. Quite the opposite actually.

Trust me, he will be back.

I sympathize with biro alot more now.

[Green_Umbrella]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

Well, let us see. He says God is unfair. No, he goes beyond that and says he ¨hates¨ God. He says Satan is not such a bad guy. He says God is a ¨tyrant¨ He says he wishes he was the one who could have crucified God. He says God is a ¨monster¨

Yes I understand him perfect. He wants to move God to the side so he can go do whatever he wants. We are all...¨weak minded people and senile old folks¨ and he is  ¨more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me..¨ and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah. I have no trouble say we do not need Christians like him. I do not anyways.

Then its a good thing it doesn't matter at all what you "need" in the context of someone else's salvation.

Also saying what you've said can only serve to worsen James' state of mind. Anyone trying to drive someone who is already despairing and in pain away from Christianity is exactly the WORST thing you could be doing, its completely satanic.

No, what is Satanic is someone making excuses for someone who makes hate filled ranting posts against God.

Hey JamesR, you think you are so smart, you are not. You think you have the market covered on suffering, you do not. You think you are the only one who has to fight against passions, you are not. You think you are the only one who can make ranting post that you know many people will find offensive and insensitive, you are not. You are not special buddy. You hate God and want to rant against him, get lost. We do not want to hear it.

 

[Achronos]

When it's raining on me, I won't opt for that green umbrella because it won't give me shelter from the storm.

[Jason.Wike]

I haven't made any excuses at all for James.

[Green_Umbrella]

I haven't made any excuses at all for James.

I hope not. Look at what he says...

Hell, I wish I was the one who could have crucified Him--it would be good payback for all the crap He let me go through.

Hey JamesR, I saw a 32 year old woman die of breast cancer several years ago. What do you think she went through? I know a 41 year old woman dying of cancer right now with her two young children staying by her bed at night. Oh, but God is unfair to you and a tyrant because you can not fornicate. 
I can go on but I will not. I have made my point. 

[Aindriú]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

[Michał Kalina]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

What Church do you belong to?

[vamrat]

What is your favorite colour?

[vamrat]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

Well, let us see. He says God is unfair. No, he goes beyond that and says he ¨hates¨ God. He says Satan is not such a bad guy. He says God is a ¨tyrant¨ He says he wishes he was the one who could have crucified God. He says God is a ¨monster¨

Yes I understand him perfect. He wants to move God to the side so he can go do whatever he wants. We are all...¨weak minded people and senile old folks¨ and he is  ¨more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me..¨ and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah. I have no trouble say we do not need Christians like him. I do not anyways.

Then its a good thing it doesn't matter at all what you "need" in the context of someone else's salvation.

Also saying what you've said can only serve to worsen James' state of mind. Anyone trying to drive someone who is already despairing and in pain away from Christianity is exactly the WORST thing you could be doing, its completely satanic.

No, what is Satanic is someone making excuses for someone who makes hate filled ranting posts against God.

Hey JamesR, you think you are so smart, you are not. You think you have the market covered on suffering, you do not. You think you are the only one who has to fight against passions, you are not. You think you are the only one who can make ranting post that you know many people will find offensive and insensitive, you are not. You are not special buddy. You hate God and want to rant against him, get lost. We do not want to hear it.

 

I think the kid is a total dweeb and all, but seriously, I can tell you from personal experience that when you tick off God enough He is more than capable of fighting His own battles.  I've gotten mad at God before.  I assure you, if he is worth saving or has the possibility of repentance, his life is going to go to shiite and he will have a choice - blame God further or unscrew himself. 

[PeterTheAleut]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

Well, let us see. He says God is unfair. No, he goes beyond that and says he ¨hates¨ God. He says Satan is not such a bad guy. He says God is a ¨tyrant¨ He says he wishes he was the one who could have crucified God. He says God is a ¨monster¨

Yes I understand him perfect. He wants to move God to the side so he can go do whatever he wants. We are all...¨weak minded people and senile old folks¨ and he is  ¨more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me..¨ and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah. I have no trouble say we do not need Christians like him. I do not anyways.

Then its a good thing it doesn't matter at all what you "need" in the context of someone else's salvation.

Also saying what you've said can only serve to worsen James' state of mind. Anyone trying to drive someone who is already despairing and in pain away from Christianity is exactly the WORST thing you could be doing, its completely satanic.

No, what is Satanic is someone making excuses for someone who makes hate filled ranting posts against God.

Hey JamesR, you think you are so smart, you are not. You think you have the market covered on suffering, you do not. You think you are the only one who has to fight against passions, you are not. You think you are the only one who can make ranting post that you know many people will find offensive and insensitive, you are not. You are not special buddy. You hate God and want to rant against him, get lost. We do not want to hear it.

Speak for yourself, pal. If you are actually a team of posters submitting posts under the same one user account, then a few people here want to hear about it, since such behavior will get you banned from this forum. Otherwise, you are just one poster representing your point of view and your point of view only.

[Aindriú]

What is your favorite colour?

What is the wingspan of a swallow?

[Green_Umbrella]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

Not that old but old enough.

Old enough to have helped move a man dying of prostate cancer because his sheet was soiled in blood from bleeding of the anus and to hear him complaining of the pain. Old enough to know ¨God does not let me fornicate¨ to be a sad excuse for someone talking about their ¨suffering¨ and mocking God. I have never seen a dying person mock God. Never seen that. It is always someone self ¨enlightened¨ or someone who considers
themselves ¨smarter¨ than most. Always naive.

JamesR said...¨Consider this my religious resignation. I no longer want anything to do with God. I hate Him.¨

I accept his religious resignation. If that is the way he wants it. That is the way he gets it. Someone else said it, God does not need us, we need God. I see no reason to beg and plead with JamesR. He knows the score.

JamesR. Do save your anti God rantings for the Hitchen or Dawkins forums though. I for one am not really interested in hearing new atheisms rhetoric regurgitated over and over by people in their teens and 20s  from rich western nations who know jack-**** about life or human suffering.
Goodbye.  

[PeterTheAleut]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

O rly?

Yeah, really.

And you come to this conclusion how?

Well, let us see. He says God is unfair. No, he goes beyond that and says he ¨hates¨ God. He says Satan is not such a bad guy. He says God is a ¨tyrant¨ He says he wishes he was the one who could have crucified God. He says God is a ¨monster¨

Yes I understand him perfect. He wants to move God to the side so he can go do whatever he wants. We are all...¨weak minded people and senile old folks¨ and he is  ¨more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me..¨ and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah. I have no trouble say we do not need Christians like him. I do not anyways.

Then its a good thing it doesn't matter at all what you "need" in the context of someone else's salvation.

Also saying what you've said can only serve to worsen James' state of mind. Anyone trying to drive someone who is already despairing and in pain away from Christianity is exactly the WORST thing you could be doing, its completely satanic.

No, what is Satanic is someone making excuses for someone who makes hate filled ranting posts against God.

Hey JamesR, you think you are so smart, you are not. You think you have the market covered on suffering, you do not. You think you are the only one who has to fight against passions, you are not. You think you are the only one who can make ranting post that you know many people will find offensive and insensitive, you are not. You are not special buddy. You hate God and want to rant against him, get lost. We do not want to hear it.

Speak for yourself, pal. If you are actually a team of posters submitting posts under the same one user account, then a few people here want to hear about it, since such behavior will get you banned from this forum. Otherwise, you are just one poster representing your point of view and your point of view only.

That said, I do agree with Schultz's perspective on the OP.

[Aindriú]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

Not that old but old enough.

Old enough to have helped move a man dying of prostate cancer because his sheet was soiled in blood from bleeding of the anus and to hear him complaining of the pain. Old enough to know ¨God does not let me fornicate¨ to be a sad excuse for someone talking about their ¨suffering¨ and mocking God. I have never seen a dying person mock God. Never seen that. It is always someone self ¨enlightened¨ or someone who considers
themselves ¨smarter¨ than most. Always naive.

So, probably not old enough to vote. Not old enough to understand his own faith he professes to hold.

The funny thing is, if Christianity doesn't need anyone, it's someone with an attitude like you. Oh, snap. The irony.

[88Devin12]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

This is a time when I wished that forums were more like Reddit and had a karma button that could hide posts with negative karma. I'd downvote this to hell.

[Aindriú]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

This is a time when I wished that forums were more like Reddit and had a karma button that could hide posts with negative karma. I'd downvote this to hell.

I do with this forum had a post AND a user rating. Good posts get users forum points.

[Cyrillic]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

Christianity does not need comments like these.

[88Devin12]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

This is a time when I wished that forums were more like Reddit and had a karma button that could hide posts with negative karma. I'd downvote this to hell.

I do with this forum had a post AND a user rating. Good posts get users forum points.

I know CF has a system like this, but a poster doesn't lose reputation points. I'd probably have a large amount of downvotes on here because of my irrational and emotional responses, but if a post gets hidden for it's negative views (one could still view it, but its hidden by default) that'd discourage such posts.

[Green_Umbrella]

How old are you Green_Umbrella?

Not that old but old enough.
Old enough to have helped move a man dying of prostate cancer because his sheet was soiled in blood from bleeding of the anus and to hear him complaining of the pain. Old enough to know ¨God does not let me fornicate¨ to be a sad excuse for someone talking about their ¨suffering¨ and mocking God. I have never seen a dying person mock God. Never seen that. It is always someone self ¨enlightened¨ or someone who considers
themselves ¨smarter¨ than most. Always naive.

So, probably not old enough to vote. Not old enough to understand his own faith he professes to hold.
The funny thing is, if Christianity doesn't need anyone, it's someone with an attitude like you. Oh, snap. The irony.

What Christianity does not need is your weak, wishy-washy, feel good, sanitized religious attitude. It is pathetic. Truly pathetic.

[Green_Umbrella]

Good. Christianity does not need a ¨Christian¨ like you anyways.

Christianity does not need comments like these.

It needs comments like this more than ever.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

This thread is degenerating. I am calling for a recess for us to cool down a bit. I will unlock it next week. Thanks, Carl Kraeff

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I am unlocking it. Carl Kraeff

[Cyrillic]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

[Green_Umbrella]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I reopened it because I have a feeling that James will come back one day and that somehow both the positive and negative posts may have a role in his return. 

[JamesR]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

[NicholasMyra]

God should not allow us to endure the evil at all.

Why?

[biro]

There is no Christian teaching that Satan enlightened anyone.

[Papist]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

Do we really deserve better? How many of the "good" acts we commit are tainted by pride, envy, selfishness, etc?

[orthonorm]

I reopened it because I have a feeling that James will come back one day and that somehow both the positive and negative posts may have a role in his return. 

JamesR has gone all Sturm und Drang. He'll hit Neo-Classicism and be in the RCC within a decade. JamesR decided to follow the Goethe travelog of life.

He's always been touched a bit with the overly analytical. The Romans will love him.

Something to read along the way:

Shroud your heaven, Zeus,
With cloudy vapours,
And do as you will, like the boy
That knocks the heads off thistles,
With oak-trees and mountain-tops;
Now you must leave alone
My Earth for Me,
And my hut, which you did not build,
And my hearth,
The glowing whereof
You envy me.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Prometheus_(Goethe)

[Schultz]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

Do we really deserve better? How many of the "good" acts we commit are tainted by pride, envy, selfishness, etc?

We do deserve better.  WE have to make it so.  What JamesR wants is for someone else to do his dirty work so he doesn't have to. 

It all starts with you, not with someone else.  That's the lesson JamesR misses because he doesn't want to hear it, just like most people angry with a God they claim doesn't exist.

[Shanghaiski]

James,

See if you can do this three times to make a statement. Go to church, stand before the icon of Christ on the cross, point your finger at him and say with all the indignation you can muster, "You died for me and I don't give a damn!"

[Quinault]

I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.

I don't know why God allows suffering. I had an exceedingly difficult childhood. I have had the worst examples of maternal and paternal love possible. I could choose to take those examples and be angry. I could live wallowing in my own muck and mire cursing God. Almost anyone I know wouldn't fault me. A pedophile for a father, an abusive mother, an abusive step-father, every male or female adult figure in my life up to age 15 did their best to show me that life is unfair. The weak are preyed upon, strength is a virtue and weakness a curse.

There is a hope in knowing that despite the seemingly endless nights of suffering and torment as a child that I wasn't alone. My suffering wasn't something that delighted God. My life has a purpose, and if I choose it; my suffering can have a purpose as well. You can live your life cursing God for your trials and suffering. Or you can choose to ask God to help you forgive, heal and help others.

[vamrat]

I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.

I wonder if Quinault just cut to the quick.

[JamesR]

James,

See if you can do this three times to make a statement. Go to church, stand before the icon of Christ on the cross, point your finger at him and say with all the indignation you can muster, "You died for me and I don't give a damn!"

While I do feel that way, I do not think I could do it because I am afraid Christ would punish me. I cannot even keep eye contact with the Icon of Christ because whenever I look into His eyes I feel like He is angry with me. When I look into the eyes of the Icon of the Theotokos I feel like she feels sympathy for me, and when I look into the eyes of John the Baptist I feel like he is saying 'you know what you must do, why not do it?' but deep down I do not know what I am supposed to do. I honestly do not care that Christ died because I feel that it has not made any difference in my life at all. But blatantly pointing to His Icon and rudely condemning Him is something I am afraid to do. Satan may have been brave enough (or foolish enough) to risk punishment by opposing God in crazy ways, but I am not. I still recognize that He can punish me at any point.

[JamesR]

Forget it, I will just admit it. I cannot accept that challenge because deep down I still love and appreciate Him even when I do not understand Him and feel like I hate Him.

[dzheremi]

Well, good. Work with that. "Lord I believe, help my unbelief" and all that.

[Quinault]

That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.

My honest assessment? I think that both young men are focusing too much on themselves. Faith and belief are not about "us." No more than love is about "us." To truly love someone you have to think outside yourself. You can't focus on the self only. You can't have real faith in anything if you can't step outside of yourself. As much as we want to hate Muslims that are terrorists, you have to admit they are not thinking solely of themselves. They are committed to a faith and belief system so throughly that they are willing to sacrifice their very lives. In the US we go to church only when it "feels" good. We don't understand how to sacrifice *everything* for what we believe. We think that we have it so tough. We are so fortunate and blessed to live where and when we do. Even in our suffering, we are fortunate indeed.

Ah...maybe that is why Trevor blocked me. I am not the most sympathetic person when it comes to whining about how tough life is. Life is not fair, we don't get what we think we deserve. We can choose to move on with life past the pain, or we can choose to wallow. We can choose to make the low points in our lives define and haunt us, or we can choose to allow them to shape us into better people. Bitterness doesn't help anyone. We don't choose to believe or not to believe simply because life isn't fair. All the people I admire the most persevered in difficult times. No one every looks at the boy with the golden spoon in his mouth given everything, with a perfect life with respect. The experiences we have to draw from give us character and strength if we allow them to.

It is possible to see that life sucks, and people are awful and yet still believe there is a sovereign and just God. Or, you can wallow in the mud screaming woe is me while tearing your clothing, starving to death next to a banquet table. It is your choice.

[Quinault]

I am entirely pessimistic of people. I assume everyone will hurt me if given the chance (outside of a few select people and family). If I didn't believe there was a just and loving God it would be open season on humanity. The knowledge that humans are *capable* of goodness because there is a God is the only thing that keeps me from just treating life like the Hunger games.

I hope someday I will have some faith in humanity automatically. For now, it literally takes near a decade before I really trust anyone. This is a sad condition, but I am actively working on it. Believe it or not, I have made a great deal of progress despite how cynical I sound.

[JamesR]

I'll die in the mud with pride knowing I stood up against evil than to dine at a banquet with a monster.

[Quinault]

Pride...yep that is the key part here. When it comes to faith or belief, pride is something that will always be a hamper. You can have pride, or you can have faith. You can't have both.

You also can't have love and pride. For that, I really do pity you.

[JamesR]

Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all. I take pity in you for being a sheep. For all the suffering we have endured, you choose to kiss the behind of the guy who allowed it to happen while I choose to oppose Him and finally stand up and do something about it. I create my own happiness. I achieve my potential. You allow yourself to be bound by a deadbeat father. If anything, some of the most morally enlightened people were godless. Ever notice that God sanctioned genocide and allows everyone to die, whereas the Devil never killed a single person?

[Quinault]

I think if we compared lives/happiness I am ahead of you by a bit. I have been with the same man almost 20 years, I have 5 beautiful kids. I am happy, I hope you can be happy someday. If there is one thing in this train of thought you have made abundantly clear, it is that you are most decidedly not happy.

[Quinault]

Let's just propose for a moment you are right. God cares nothing for us and it is pointless to worship him. I live my life happily and end my days believing in Him for naught. What possible harm have I done to my soul? People hurt me. God at best was there for me when I chose to pick up the pieces. At worst he sat by while I was hurt. In either case he wasn't the one actually hurting me. My father, my mother, my step father and countless other people used me up like trash and threw me away. If I were to look at my value from earthly terms I would agree with my abusers that I am only worth what can be forcibly taken from me. Indeed, faith may be for the weak. But I would rather be weak and have value in the eyes of a God that may not be there, than be "strong" and have no value in the eyes of men.

[dzheremi]

What gets me about all this "why does God have us experience hardship" stuff is, well, who told you it would be otherwise? Christ our God explicitly said that it's really going to suck a lot of the time to be His followers (not in those exact words, of course). All the great saints from the days of the early church through today have affirmed that in having led hard lives, being martyrs or passion-bearers, etc. Not part of "Christian" spells 'easy'. I listened to a sermon a long time ago when I was first becoming seriously interested in Orthodoxy where the priest put it like this: "Do you all remember the story about the saint who praised God from his comfortable bed, whenever he bothered to wake up, without ever leaving his warm sheets or lifting a finger to exert himself in worshiping God? ...No? That's right, because he doesn't exist."

But if you think the struggle is tough with God, without Him it is impossible. You might feel "better" because you stop struggling, and hence trick yourself into thinking your hardships are over because you have stopped living with God, but you'll find out too late the difference between victory in Christ and giving up in laziness and selfishness. Lord have mercy. The key to the Christian life, like any kind of life, is endurance. But while the Christian endurance is to a good end with eternal life at its summit, away from God you might live a long life only to find out that the time you spent not training your body and soul was the last trouble-free time you'll have. And then it is suddenly not the obvious choice for the person who wants to be free of hardship and pain.

[Quinault]

Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all.

The fact that you are 16 is very telling in this statement.

[Kerdy]

I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.

It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

You supply a lot of statements but can you support the why of those statements?  See the bolded portion...Why not?

[Kerdy]

God should not allow us to endure the evil at all.

Why?

You beat me to it.

[Deborah]

I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.

I wonder if Quinault just cut to the quick.

Too right she did.  Sheltering children from everything, the realities of life and responsibility for anything, is just as destructive as abuse.  The consequences from such an upbringing is all-encompassing and pervasive throughout your life.  I had such an upbringing, and have much garbage to work through.  This paragraph alone is deserving of post of the month.

[Kerdy]

I'll die in the mud with pride knowing I stood up against evil than to dine at a banquet with a monster.

So you now realize Satan is a foolish evil being and like Jesus again?  Awesome!

[Nicene]

Im just curious James, why do you deserve better? Simply because you think you deserve better or is there an objective reason?

[Quinault]

You do realize though that at 16 you have barely encountered hardship, right? Being a teen certainly isn't easy. But life becomes more...ah...complicated as you get older. And raging against God for creating hardship is like raging against the ocean for a tsunami. It doesn't really accomplish anything, you don't prevent destruction from occurring.

My life was hard..I mean HARD growing up. In all honesty I have encountered more traumatizing and difficult things as an adult. I have had greater control, which makes it harder. At least as a child I had no control, thus no real responsibility for my suffering. I hate to tell you, but it doesn't really get better contrary to what the viral videos say. It gets easier, but it never really gets better. It only gets easier when you learn to deal with it rather than get angry.

Obviously you can tell by my last statement that I don't see life as all sunshine and happiness. Obviously I don't want to raise completely cynical children. The only honest answer I can give when my kids notice suffering is that it is present in life. We live our lives to the best of our ability. Often people hurt us, or we see the ones we love hurting. We teach them that when you can ease the suffering of another person you should always try to do something. In those times we feel helpless, prayer is the only answer when action isn't an option. We may not get what we want, but life isn't about that. Faith isn't about getting what we want either. Prayer doesn't change the heart of God, it changes our hearts. God isn't waiting for the "magic words" before He intervenes.

In all honesty; if you think the suffering of humanity you see is too much, why is your first reaction anger with God? Your first reaction should be to DO SOMETHING. The fact that your kneejerk reaction to the suffering of others is to internalize it and use it "against" God is further proof of your pride and selfishness. I doubt the homeless people on the street are comforted by your wrath with God.

Hate God if you like, it really only hurts you. But if you see suffering in others your responsible for that suffering if you don't do something when you can. See a homeless person without a coat? Get them a coat. You have the power to be the change you want to see. But you would have to look outside of yourself and get your face out of your bellybutton.

At least Trevor is organizing blood drives...

[JamesR]

For your information, every bit of money I have been making has been going into a charity jar I started at the beginning of the year that I plan to donate at the end of the year and despite my obsession with money, most of the money I make goes to help other people, even when it discomforts me. I did this all without God. To answer the question others have been asking--why do I deserve better/why should God end suffering? Because I am God's responsibility. The entire creation is God's responsibility. If anyone should fix it then it should be Him. God is like Dr. Frankenstein in that He created a monster and blames the monster for its evil and allows it to do evil when He is the one responsible for it. I'm no longer asking God for a handout. I know that He is not going to do anything. So I am creating my own justice, trying to attain my own happiness and helping others do the same. I oftentimes hear people say that God helps you to do good. I disagree. Without God I can do more good than I was ever able to do before. For starters, instead of always daydreaming about some other transcendent 'Second Coming' world that you all dream of, I create the world I want right now as we speak through every dollar I give to a homeless person. This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now. Earlier you brought up Pascal's Wager by stating how even if God was evil, then you are at least still happy from worshipping Him. I disagree with you. While you may find happiness in Him, I do not. The way I see it is that either way I am going to die in the end whether I am happy or sad. I figure I might as well indulge and be happy in this life living godless than to be tied down and miserable worshipping God only to still die in the end.

[Quinault]

"Second Coming"? Did you pay any attention in your catechism? I think you are mistaking Orthodoxy for dispensationalism.

You aren't happy though. So obviously you are "doing it wrong." If you were truly comfortable in agnosticism, you wouldn't be so angry. Not to mention, you still haven't changed your board profile information to reflect your "new enlightenment" to how evil and capricious God is. Nonetheless, my point remains; I am happier than you even if I am "wrong." Once you are happy, maybe your argument will hold some weight. I still see an angry teen in your postings, not a rational person that has found some sense.

[JamesR]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

[Quinault]

Just so you know Left Behind is NOT an Orthodox series!

[LBK]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

[jmbejdl]

This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.

Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James

[Quinault]

You bemoan the inability to murder in your first post, then triumph in giving money away in your most recent post? So why not save money for the homeless and go "Kick!@#" (referencing the movie) on the evil people? Because you don't actually want to kill anyone. Why bemoan the inability to murder, when you don't actually want to murder anyone?

I know if I knew it was perfectly OK that I would have a loooonnnnggggg list to start on TOMORROW!

[Quinault]

This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.

Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James

Spoken like a real US teenager that has never lived there!

[Kerdy]

For your information, every bit of money I have been making has been going into a charity jar I started at the beginning of the year that I plan to donate at the end of the year and despite my obsession with money, most of the money I make goes to help other people, even when it discomforts me. I did this all without God. To answer the question others have been asking--why do I deserve better/why should God end suffering? Because I am God's responsibility. The entire creation is God's responsibility. If anyone should fix it then it should be Him. God is like Dr. Frankenstein in that He created a monster and blames the monster for its evil and allows it to do evil when He is the one responsible for it. I'm no longer asking God for a handout. I know that He is not going to do anything. So I am creating my own justice, trying to attain my own happiness and helping others do the same. I oftentimes hear people say that God helps you to do good. I disagree. Without God I can do more good than I was ever able to do before. For starters, instead of always daydreaming about some other transcendent 'Second Coming' world that you all dream of, I create the world I want right now as we speak through every dollar I give to a homeless person. This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now. Earlier you brought up Pascal's Wager by stating how even if God was evil, then you are at least still happy from worshipping Him. I disagree with you. While you may find happiness in Him, I do not. The way I see it is that either way I am going to die in the end whether I am happy or sad. I figure I might as well indulge and be happy in this life living godless than to be tied down and miserable worshipping God only to still die in the end.

If I only had my computer.  Why is it taking so long?  I have much I would like to say in response.

[Kerdy]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Knowledge is only part of the walk.  "In the end, knowledge will not save them". Faith is what is missing and more important than knowledge.  Look at all the knowledge man currently possesses and the harm we do to each other with it and also at our greatest, we are feeble in comparison to God.  Faith is what God has asked from us.  Childlike faith, not knowledge.

[Kerdy]

This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.

Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James

What he fails to understand that type of government only works if all the people want do it the right way, which NEVER happens.  People are kinda bad.

[Orthodox11]

Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God.

I think you're overestimating your knowledge a little bit here, brother.

[LBK]

Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God.

I think you're overestimating your knowledge a little bit here, brother.

What do you expect from a sixteen-year-old who knows everything? Those of us old enough to be his grandparents know nothing, in his opinion. 

[Timon]

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

We can try to understand why God allows all these things to happen if we want to, but as Isaiah 55 points out, its not really possible. 

[Green_Umbrella]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

God does allow suffering this is true. But he did not create our suffering. We did. The only real question is, is allowing this suffering to continue justified? It is. You show it to be justified.

So I am creating my own justice...

I create the world I want...

Without God I can do more good than I was ever able to do before...

I create Paradise right now...

I create my own happiness...

I achieve my potential...

The world we have today is the world we made. Not God. What you see around you is the best we can do. You have nothing new to offer. The suffering in the world is from our arrogance and rejection of God. God has taken a step back and put his hands up and said something like ¨If you think you can do it alone, do it.¨

Yes, we are doing it all right. The planet will probably not even be habitable for life in the not too distant future. And what do we still say? ¨We do not need God. We can do it by ourselves.¨ Yes, the suffering of today is justified. Very justified. Obviously justified. It is the same from the Garden of Eden. Nothing is new. If you think you can go it alone without God, go for it. Just remember wherever you land is where you put yourself, not God. 

I imagine I will keep this a secret and still attend my Church

I see. So you are starting your new Godless crusade to help fix evil in the world with a lie. Sounds about right.

[Papist]

Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all. I take pity in you for being a sheep. For all the suffering we have endured, you choose to kiss the behind of the guy who allowed it to happen while I choose to oppose Him and finally stand up and do something about it. I create my own happiness. I achieve my potential. You allow yourself to be bound by a deadbeat father. If anything, some of the most morally enlightened people were godless. Ever notice that God sanctioned genocide and allows everyone to die, whereas the Devil never killed a single person?

God is responsible for you ability to love. If not for him, you would not be able to love.

[augustin717]

This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.

Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James

You know marxism isn't about paradise, and you are just peddling expired stereotypes.

[Agabus]

This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.

Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James

You know marxism isn't about paradise, and you are just peddling expired stereotypes.

Based on his previous posting history, I suspect James will do a stint as a Maoist before it is all over.

But based on posts within this thread, I think he’ll eventually adopt some kind of Liberation Theology along the way and find a happy — or at least not as restless — place.

[NicholasMyra]

I did this all without God.

But I thought you said that God caused all things to happen and that nothing happens apart from Him.

[Cyrillic]

I was the brightest student in all the classes

What a humility...

"Well, although I do not suppose that either of us knows anything really beautiful and good, I am better off than he is - for he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know. In this latter particular, then, I seem to have slightly the advantage of him. "

[Cyrillic]

Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all. I take pity in you for being a sheep. For all the suffering we have endured, you choose to kiss the behind of the guy who allowed it to happen while I choose to oppose Him and finally stand up and do something about it. I create my own happiness. I achieve my potential. You allow yourself to be bound by a deadbeat father. If anything, some of the most morally enlightened people were godless. Ever notice that God sanctioned genocide and allows everyone to die, whereas the Devil never killed a single person?

God is responsible for you ability to love. If not for him, you would not be able to love.

Thumbs up.

[Ansgar]

This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.

Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James

You know marxism isn't about paradise, and you are just peddling expired stereotypes.

Maybe not, but while it probably wasn't his intention, Marx was still a revolutionary socialist whose ideas and theories helped shape the ideological foundation of some of the worst totalitarian regimes in modern history. It might be wrong to call the communist states marxist, but they were partly based on his ideas.

[NightOwl]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

[Michał Kalina]

If you'd like it to be locked why are you posting here?

[orthonorm]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

[NightOwl]

If you'd like it to be locked why are you posting here?

Well... I don't really care either way to be honest, it was just a casual suggestion.

[NightOwl]

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

In consideration of his recent posts, I'd say James needs more help than anyone from an anonymous Internet forum can give him... possibly from a therapist or psychiatric counselor. It's awkward to suggest but this radical psychological shift in a short period of time suggests to me an imbalance (beyond adolescent mood swings) that needs professional help.

[quietmorning]

I was the brightest student in all the classes

What a humility...

Humility and pride are both abstracts of which a CHILD this age is just beginning to have some sort of vague understanding of.  Even adults with years and years of life under their belts have limited understanding.  He's an infant - and here we are telling him he has to change the next infant's diapers.

James - take it from someone who was the 'brightest' with an incredibly high IQ.  I have nothing.  Absolutely nothing that wasn't given to me.  My parent's passed down the genetics that enabled me to have brain cells that happen to work a little differently than most.  And the creation of those braincells?  No matter how it comes out they are still MADE.  Until you can make a brain cell yourself and pop it into your head and use it exactly the way it COULD be used for the betterment of this world you have such angst about - you have nothing.

Your heart doesn't beat with your will.
Your breath isn't taken with your will.
Your skin doesn't sweat with your will.

So unless you DO something WITH what you've been GIVEN - then you haven't done anything.  Unless you take what you have in all your glory and find the kind of love that would turn what you've been given into something loving and kind and patient and long suffering, and applauding LIFE - true LIVING LIFE - you have absolutely nothing.

The one you call Lucifer isn't called Lucifer any longer - his name was stripped from him . . .he's called "satan", now. . .and adjective.  Not a name.  He's called 'the accuser', he is the ultimate liar, the ultimate thief, the ultimate destroyer, murderer and corrupter.  

And you would chose this THING that DESTROYS and MURDERS tears down over that which builds up, heals, loves, shed His blood . . .

?
Really?
 
You are for Him or you are against Him.  There is no "still love Jesus" as He presents Himself on the cross - after His only thought was making SURE YOU had the OPPORTUNITY to live.  But it's your choice.  It's always your choice.  You get to choose life or death.  Healing or corruption.  It's always your choice.  It's the ONE thing you have COMPLETE control over.  It's the one thing ALL of us have complete control over.

Instead you decided to become a spiritual anorexic.  

But His death was not in vain.  It will never be in vain.  His grace to you is not in vain.  It will never be in vain.  His Word (Christ Jesus) IN YOU will not come back to HIM (the Father) void.  

Like I told my daughter when she screamed at me that she hated me - "I love you, I always will - there is NOTHING you can do to change that fact."

He says the same to you.

He is the safest person to get mad at.  He loves you unconditionally.  I was the safest person for my daughter to get mad at.  I love her unconditionally.  Her daddy left her.  Rejecting her to her face when she was seven.  She couldn't be mad at him. . .he wasn't there.  But I was, and she was mad.  I was safe, I wouldn't hurt her like her daddy hurt her.  

Why?  Is the world such a sucky place?

Because we fight a war, James.  We are in a war and will be in a war until we leave this place.  We aren't in heaven.  We aren't in hell.  We're on earth - and it is 'cursed because of you.' (Adam) . . .and me. . .and everyone else on the face of this planet.  We fight ourselves, we fight the evil ones that HATE US.  We fight the world.  We're in a war - and it's always a question of which side you're on.  Life or death.  

Why doesn't He stop it?  Because God so loved the universe, the world, the dust, the breath, the stars, the elephants, the bees, the rocks, the trees. . . because He so loves us. . . and He has compassion on us. . .so He offers us healing and gave HIS ONLY Son to die for us. . .so that we might CHOOSE to heal.  And in our healing, the earth heals.  What a beautiful thing He did.  He not only gave us a way to heal, but enabled us to be a HUGE PART of this redemption the earth. . . to be able to share in HIS GLORY.  But if we share in His Glory, we also SHARE in HIS suffering.  He suffered. . .and the only way we can really KNOW Him is to SHARE with Him WHO He is.

You see, James, it's not about the here and now. . . the material . . .it's about eternity.  It's about HIM.  It's about HIS desire to see you ALIVE for The accuser never sat down and MADE a beautiful thing in his life.  He WAS MADE.  He HAD true light. . .but it wasn't HIS. . . it was NEVER his.  It was God's and when he turned his back on God, God took it back.  

He's a liar.  And a coward.

I used to be so angry at God.  I told Him that I couldn't be hot for Him, but I believed in Him. . .and knew it was me that was messed up.  I came from a messed up family and perpetuated the messed up myself.  

He loved me anyway. . .and opened doors for me and surrounded me with people to help me understand.  

What do I understand now?  There was no one NO ONE to pray for my abusive grandfather.  There was NO ONE to pray for my other abusive grandfather, there was NO ONE to pray for my Grandmothers. . .my mother. . . my brother's and sisters.  . . .so that we ALL might find His peace, His redemption.  But He placed me in a place to 'suffer' . . .and grief I suffered.  And grief HE suffered.  WITH me.  He was there every single moment.  Suffering WITH me.  And I learned. . . and He filled me with His love. . . and I healed DESPITE.  I was born into this messed up family for a reason . . .a GOOD REASON. . .a loving reason.  A reason that gave hope. . . and now. . .after years of prayer, I'm seeing my mother heal.  I'm seeing my brothers and sisters heal. . .and my dad. . . heal.  I'm seeing all the GOOD come together. . . that good work He started in me. . .the day I was conceived.  

So.  You are in my prayers. . and will remain.  

And I pray that I will see with my own eyes your healing.  Because you may not deserve it, but you ARE worth it.

[vamrat]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

Indeed, those trying to help him are guilty of hubris, thinking that their reasoning is capable of reaching the mind of an adolescent mid-tantrum.  If what Quinault has said to him hasn't snapped him out of it then perhaps a stint in the French Foreign Legion or the Marine Corps would do him well.  Something to teach him some maturity and discipline.

[orthonorm]

Thanks quietmorning. Yours is a caring and sensible voice as always.

[Green_Umbrella]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

[orthonorm]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

Indeed, those trying to help him are guilty of hubris, thinking that their reasoning is capable of reaching the mind of an adolescent mid-tantrum.  If what Quinault has said to him hasn't snapped him out of it then perhaps a stint in the French Foreign Legion or the Marine Corps would do him well.  Something to teach him some maturity and discipline.

As long as you know him.

Give him your number and get to know him a little better. Perhaps you already have. I mean you've done it for others in times of stress? Right?

Yeah, discipline . . .

[Ansgar]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yikes!
Where do you live?

[orthonorm]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.

[orthonorm]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yikes!
Where do you live?

Probably my neighbor.

[Quinault]

He could live on an american indian reservation. But if it is only 25% of the population without running water, it is one of the nicer ones.

[vamrat]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

Indeed, those trying to help him are guilty of hubris, thinking that their reasoning is capable of reaching the mind of an adolescent mid-tantrum.  If what Quinault has said to him hasn't snapped him out of it then perhaps a stint in the French Foreign Legion or the Marine Corps would do him well.  Something to teach him some maturity and discipline.

As long as you know him.

Give him your number and get to know him a little better. Perhaps you already have. I mean you've done it for others in times of stress? Right?

Yeah, discipline . . .

Indeed and have benefited from it as well.  I have sent him a PM and he is free to get a hold of me however he prefers.

[Quinault]

But really, running water isn't the best method of determining quality of life. My little factoid: I grew up where 1 in 3 women is sexually assaulted. That number is likely higher since natives tend to cover it up. The US isn't a perfect model of clean and ethical living.


You know, I do actually understand where the OP is coming from. I have been angry with God like that. But the last thing I needed was someone that just petted my head, told me I was so deep, and let me continue to spew bile. There is a point in life where you have to put on your big girl pants and make due with what you have. This is an issue of personal character moreso than faith. The anger with God is a symptom of a greater problem. Hopefully he will work past those issues. But no amount of coddling will help him. If wanted my number, he can ask and I will give it to him. But don't expect me to pet your head and tell you how brilliant you are. You aren't the first to notice that life often sucks, and you won't be the last.

[orthonorm]

JamesR has made himself the biggest Rorschach blot around.

[orthonorm]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

Indeed, those trying to help him are guilty of hubris, thinking that their reasoning is capable of reaching the mind of an adolescent mid-tantrum.  If what Quinault has said to him hasn't snapped him out of it then perhaps a stint in the French Foreign Legion or the Marine Corps would do him well.  Something to teach him some maturity and discipline.

As long as you know him.

Give him your number and get to know him a little better. Perhaps you already have. I mean you've done it for others in times of stress? Right?

Yeah, discipline . . .

Indeed and have benefited from it as well.  I have sent him a PM and he is free to get a hold of me however he prefers.

So in other words, without knowing much about a person you parse out advice based on some seemingly incendiary posts. Posts which to anyone with a little compassion, experience, insight, and perhaps knowing the person a little better than just from what they post here would understand much more lies beneath.

So, hubris and lack of "knowledge" so celebrated here..

You, Quinault, and company and deal out your "tough love" with whatever projections you must exercise in the world, but know that at least one person here sees it for what it is.

I don't mean this list to be exhaustive, but Gebre, Second Chance (sorry Karl, still trying), quietmorning and the like offer a little room for the possibility more might be at stake and whatever their projections might be, they come from the heart and offer a little bit of caring that might actually be taken for what it is.

[ZealousZeal]

I am going to love everyone and urge everyone to indulge in their passions.

Ah. "How quick come the reasons for approving what we like!"

[Quinault]

My point is, that the OP is not happy. He wants to claim that being without (and honestly opposed to) God will give him happiness. Everyone that believes in God is a sheeple and he is the only smart one. Now, if he decided to abandon faith and was happy, I wouldn't say a word. But if he decides to spew bile all over I will point out he is going too far. There have been many posters that claimed they left all faith that I haven't said a word to. If they seem happy in their choice, I don't need to say a word. I see the OP as an injured animal lashing out at everyone and everything. He is hurt. At some point he has to move past the angry lashing out and get to the source of the problem. The source of that problem isn't a belief, or lackthereof in God.

[orthonorm]

I am going to love everyone and urge everyone to indulge in their passions.

Ah. "How quick come the reasons for approving what we like!"

It's everyone's game. James is just not being so sophisticated.

[ZealousZeal]

I am going to love everyone and urge everyone to indulge in their passions.

Ah. "How quick come the reasons for approving what we like!"

It's everyone's game. James is just not being so sophisticated.

Comme tu dis.

[orthonorm]

I don't have any words.

May you find peace and happiness in whatever you decide to do, JamesR. If you need someone to talk to, please don't hesitate to PM me.

Reply #1

[orthonorm]

I do not judge you, nor do your words make me angry. I cannot help but to believe that those who so honestly and boldly express their displeasure with God are actually quite near to Him. In spite of your advice that I not pray for you, I will pray my unworthy prayers nonetheless.

"Lord have mercy."


Selam

Reply #2

[Green_Umbrella]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.

A very generous offer but I see all the material I need on a daily basis. As in right now, in this moment.  

I asked you a question about running water, why did not you answer? I will ask you another. I can pick up a stone from my current location and hit a family living without electricity and running water in a home they made from garbage. Well, let us see. It looks like they might have an illegal connection they set up for themselves. That is the norm you know. How about you, let us hear it.

My generation? What is my generation? Do you know? You do not. You have no idea. You are just blowing smoke out of your self-righteous arse. JamesR does not want help or did not you notice that. I think he made that perfectly clear. You spend your time helping people who want help. You do not waste your time on people who do not.

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.  

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

[orthonorm]

You are still a young man. Chances are you will go through many such revelatory eras in your life, full of their own bold, declarative statements which you will eventually think better than to hash out publicly as you've done here. I myself lived if not as an atheist, exactly, then certainly as an agnostic for about a decade after my mother passed away when I was a few years younger than you are now. I didn't understand -- well, more couldn't understand -- how a supposedly loving God could take a mother from her two not yet grown children, and what's more one who loved Him as much as my mother did. Of course, now the answer seems almost obvious (the lovers of God desire Him more than life, and He, loving them as He does, grants their wishes), but I wouldn't really get it for many years.

This isn't my way of saying "You'll grow out of it" or "You're young and dumb" or anything like that, by the way. Ours is a free faith, and you are not required to come back. I just hope that you have all the time in the world to learn the lessons you can only learn with time. I mean, not to harp on the point, but your faith status still says "just baptized", so it's not crazy to wonder if there's something to be said in waiting until you are a little less impulsive before deciding what you believe about God.

As to the passions and all that, Lord have mercy, because there but by the grace of God we would all be, and also thank God that He lets His sun shine upon us all, regardless of where we are. This might be a weird note to end on, but as 17th century Yemenite Rabbi Shalom Shabazi put it, even if the gates of the wealthy are closed, the gates of heaven will never be closed. Something to think about in this life, at least.

Be well.

Reply #8

[orthonorm]

In trying to figure out why, I am torn between adolescence and the Evil One as the culprit. May be both. In any case, I do not think that this JamersR is the last word because I remember another JamesR before and he will come back in due course. In the meantime, I pray that the following petitions reawaken in JamesR's soul and effect his return:

"An angel of peace, a faithful guide, a guardian of our souls and
bodies, let us ask of the Lord.

Pardon and forgiveness of our sins and transgressions, let us ask of
the Lord.

All things good and profitable for our souls and peace for the world,
let us ask of the Lord.

That we may complete the remaining time of our life in peace and
repentance, let us ask of the Lord.

A Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful and a
good defense before the fearful judgment seat of Christ, let us ask."

Grant this O Lord and have mercy on your servant James, receive him back as the father received his prodigal son and forgive him as You forgave the good thief.

Reply #12

[Achronos]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

[Quinault]

You spend your time helping people who want help. You do not waste your time on people who do not.

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.  

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

$5 words don't mean you don't know what poverty is. Orthonorm is a great guy, and he genuinely cares. While it may appear I agree with you Green Umbrella in my postings on this thread, I don't. 

[orthonorm]

Some good stuff after reply #12, but really, after the spirit of those words, what else is there to say, other than to agree. And let's be honest, it ain't like I am BFFs with Gebre, Jeremy, or Second. But those are sound and clear responses. Perhaps with a little rebuke from my beloved Schultzie.

And perhaps some good humored, "I told you so". But really, dissecting someone's else life is a bit much in light of so little information.

[Green_Umbrella]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

Right, and ¨I hate God with a burning passion¨ did not. Go figure.

[orthonorm]

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.   

More poverty pr0n. You don't like the casting. Poor folks can't be educated.

[Ansgar]

Let's all just pray that James will find his way back to God and the Church.

Lord have mercy!

[Quinault]

I honestly don't think this is just about finding his way back to God and the church. The church is a hospital for the sick, so obviously it will help. But there is some pain and anger here that has to do with more than just God.

I meant it when I said it; I really do hope he can find some happiness. The rage he is obviously having isn't healthy for anyone.


I would say that I hope he doesn't partake in communion in his current state.

[Achronos]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

Right, and ¨I hate God with a burning passion¨ did not. Go figure.

I seem to recall Fr. Seraphim Rose saying that those angry at God are those trying their hardest to grasp Him. Or something like that, it's in his Nihilsm book.

[vamrat]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

Indeed, those trying to help him are guilty of hubris, thinking that their reasoning is capable of reaching the mind of an adolescent mid-tantrum.  If what Quinault has said to him hasn't snapped him out of it then perhaps a stint in the French Foreign Legion or the Marine Corps would do him well.  Something to teach him some maturity and discipline.

As long as you know him.

Give him your number and get to know him a little better. Perhaps you already have. I mean you've done it for others in times of stress? Right?

Yeah, discipline . . .

Indeed and have benefited from it as well.  I have sent him a PM and he is free to get a hold of me however he prefers.

So in other words, without knowing much about a person you parse out advice based on some seemingly incendiary posts. Posts which to anyone with a little compassion, experience, insight, and perhaps knowing the person a little better than just from what they post here would understand much more lies beneath.

So, hubris and lack of "knowledge" so celebrated here..

You, Quinault, and company and deal out your "tough love" with whatever projections you must exercise in the world, but know that at least one person here sees it for what it is.

I don't mean this list to be exhaustive, but Gebre, Second Chance (sorry Karl, still trying), quietmorning and the like offer a little room for the possibility more might be at stake and whatever their projections might be, they come from the heart and offer a little bit of caring that might actually be taken for what it is.

Well, I sent him a PM.  If he has something to say in a manner that doesn't come off as a whiny little brat then let him say it.  You are right, some people do need kindness and compassion.  Sometimes that is all they need to unscrew themselves.  Other times...

http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/

Whatever your origins, nationality or religion might be, whatever qualifications you may or may not have, whatever your social or professional status might be, whether you are married or single, the French Foreign Legion offers you a chance to start a new life...

[Quinault]

Seriously what is with all the hubris you people exhibit. It's nauseating. Is it really too much to ask to be there for someone instead of patronizing?

If I was JamesR and I read some of the comments here, I would never come back. Just saying.

"Christianity doesn't deserve people like you", that makes my blood boil.

Right, and ¨I hate God with a burning passion¨ did not. Go figure.

God doesn't need us to defend him. Moreso, the OP knows exactly what he is doing. Hatred of God does nothing lasting to God. But it does damage us. The reaction that we "don't need Christians like you" is just awful. In your zeal to "defend" God you have forgotten that God indeed made man in His image.

[vamrat]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.

A very generous offer but I see all the material I need on a daily basis. As in right now, in this moment.  

I asked you a question about running water, why did not you answer? I will ask you another. I can pick up a stone from my current location and hit a family living without electricity and running water in a home they made from garbage. Well, let us see. It looks like they might have an illegal connection they set up for themselves. That is the norm you know. How about you, let us hear it.

My generation? What is my generation? Do you know? You do not. You have no idea. You are just blowing smoke out of your self-righteous arse. JamesR does not want help or did not you notice that. I think he made that perfectly clear. You spend your time helping people who want help. You do not waste your time on people who do not.

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.  

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

You might consider toning down on the anger.  Be careful when fighting monsters lest you become one, yo.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank.

When the young Siddhartha first ventured out of the security of his childhood, he discovered that much like in a really bad Film Noir movie, that the world is a sorry place, and even the best of it can be discouraging.  However, this only led him to understand the revelation of the First Noble Truth, that life is suffering.  There is nothing else to say about the matter, and Christianity inherently agrees.  We then through fasting, through prayer, through a lifetime cultivating a relationship with God, do not learn the magic words to make suffering go away, rather, we learn by God's Grace to with Christian dignity embrace our fates.

who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

Hebrews 5


Please always keep in mind, when you are in the depths of your pain, God is suffering too.  All those things in the world that make us suffer, God suffers them with us.

Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better.

Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but however you slice that cake, our reality remains the same.  The life you have is the only life you are going to get it, flaws and all.  You can't change that, period.  The suffering that we endure is so largely out of our hands, that its literally childish to pretend we can avoid it.  Further, young children tend to accept this so much better than we do, just go volunteer in the LA Country Children's Court, where the kids have been sexually and physically abused or neglect, and yet they are playing, laughing, having sincere fun playing with each other in the waiting room, meanwhile just about every single adult in the room is dejected, depressed, and in burdensome tears.  Maybe we can learn from the example of children, and bear our fates with a bit more joy realizing life is what we got, and its all we got, so we're best to enjoy it as best we can regardless of the circumstances.  

Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

No, Satan is the entire source of suffering in the first place.  He is so miserable from his own dejection by God, that he wants to make us all as miserable as he is, so he reminds us and accuses us and tortures our imaginations with all the self-defeating "what-ifs"?  Simply put my young brother, that life is life, as we say around the hood, "It is what it is."  We Fell, not God.  Life is what it is.  The question now is what can we make of it? You are a young man, but you are becoming a man.  As a man, your life is what you make it.  If you want to be miserable and accusative, then so be it.  But all that rage will not fulfill you, it will consume you.  Adults become wise enough by experience to pick their battles and celebrate their victories no matter how small in scale.  Every little bit counts, every day we move the ball a little further down the field, and why the defense has a horrifying blitz, if we still play the game with poise and dignity and give it our sheer best, we just might score that winning touch down and enjoy the game

I am praying for you and us all.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[JamesR]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

[Quinault]

Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but however you slice that cake, our reality remains the same.  The life you have is the only life you are going to get it, flaws and all.  You can't change that, period.  The suffering that we endure is so largely out of our hands, that its literally childish to pretend we can avoid it.  Further, young children tend to accept this so much better than we do, just go volunteer in the LA Country Children's Court, where the kids have been sexually and physically abused or neglect, and yet they are playing, laughing, having sincere fun playing with each other in the waiting room, meanwhile just about every single adult in the room is dejected, depressed, and in burdensome tears.  Maybe we can learn from the example of children, and bear our fates with a bit more joy realizing life is what we got, and its all we got, so we're best to enjoy it as best we can regardless of the circumstances. 

Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.

No, Satan is the entire source of suffering in the first place.  He is so miserable from his own dejection by God, that he wants to make us all as miserable as he is, so he reminds us and accuses us and tortures our imaginations with all the self-defeating "what-ifs"?  Simply put my young brother, that life is life, as we say around the hood, "It is what it is."  We Fell, not God.  Life is what it is.  The question now is what can we make of it? You are a young man, but you are becoming a man.  As a man, your life is what you make it.  If you want to be miserable and accusative, then so be it.  But all that rage will not fulfill you, it will consume you.  Adults become wise enough by experience to pick their battles and celebrate their victories no matter how small in scale.  Every little bit counts, every day we move the ball a little further down the field, and why the defense has a horrifying blitz, if we still play the game with poise and dignity and give it our sheer best, we just might score that winning touch down and enjoy the game

I am praying for you and us all.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

This is precisely what I meant to get at. Maybe sleep deprivation kept me from making it clearer.

[quietmorning]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

James, He's running to you and wrapping His arms around you.  You took communion in that state.  . . He entered into you through communion to heal you.  THAT'S how MUCH He loves you.

[Cyrillic]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

Δόξα τῷ Θεῷ πάντων ἕνεκεν! Glory be to God for all things!

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

But really, running water isn't the best method of determining quality of life. My little factoid: I grew up where 1 in 3 women is sexually assaulted. That number is likely higher since natives tend to cover it up. The US isn't a perfect model of clean and ethical living.

Hate to burst the bubble, but over their lifetime one in four American women will have been raped, molested, or sexually assaulted.  This is not a cultural thing, this is seemingly a universal problem. Yes, at the moment is is perhaps the most worse in the Democratic Republic of Congo, but that is because of lawlessness, not a more rape-prone culture.  The sad reality is that we as men need to step up to the plate in ALL of our societies to better protect the women in our lives from ourselves

JamesR has made himself the biggest Rorschach blot around.

About time out of your pages and pages of self-aggrandizing pseudo-gibberish you finally put out a true jewel of wisdom here.  Maybe you should concentrate all your efforts on valuable insights like this, and avoid getting caught up in your own version of the Maury Povich show which consists of approximately 68% of what you've been posting lately




Now that James has cleared his head a bit, can we all stop having a pity party peeing contest over here


stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Quinault]

It doesn't burst any bubble. It doesn't change the fact that rape simply doesn't get prosecuted in indian country. My point was that life is difficult even in the US.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

James, perhaps like young Siddhartha you have yet you be hurt by your love, so your love is pure and innocent. Simply put, GOD WAS HURT BY HIS LOVE.  He loves Satan, look where that God Him! He loves us, and the world is a terribly mess indeed!  Human beings out the depth and wisdom and experience of love, learn one of the joys of life is to love and forgive other people who have wronged us.  God loves the world so much, that He allows out of His kindness and mercy suffering.  What if God were to suddenly and instantly judge all evil? You and me both would be swept up into an eternity of even more sorrow then our temporal griefs here on Earth.  GOD LOVES THE WORLD, AND HE ALLOWS EVIL TO EXIST BECAUSE HE LOVES EVIL TOO!  When you realize from the depth of your own love, to be forced by it to forgive another person who has hurt you, then you will finally empathize and understand where God is coming from, and WHY God forgives even the most despicable evil.  The just have no need for the physician, but the those who are sick.  The world is a sick place, we have to learn to love suffering as much as rejoicing, because that is God's fate, and we are not greater or lesser than God in this regard.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[genesisone]

But the fact remains that I still have so many questions.

We all do, JamesR, whether we are sixteen like you, or sixty like me. The questions will change and our faith will be challenged. There will be good days and bad days. I hope you can find someone with whom you can have a face-to-face discussion where you feel as comfortable about expressing yourself as you do here.

[Quinault]

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

In my case a sort of numb sadness comes after anger. God loves you, even when you don't feel it. Sometimes we just keep repeating the same things over and over to ourselves hoping to believe them. You don't have to feel anything to pray. Repent, pick yourself up and try to stay standing for awhile. I would talk to your godparents and spiritual father about your struggles as soon as you feel you can. Start with just one thing each day; belief that God loves you. Once you can believe that without effort, move to the next thing. Don't try and jump headfirst back into faith. Being present in the liturgy is enough if that is all you can handle.

I would start with simply praying with your prayer rope "Lord I believe, help my unbelief" and leave it at that for awhile.

[Agabus]

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.

James, I can't answer your questions. I'm not that bright.

But you have no need to fear God. The feast he offers is freely given.

1 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons.  12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood.  13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living.  14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want.  15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.  16 And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.

17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’

But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him.  21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

[neon_knights]

HE LOVES EVIL TOO!

This is contrary to the Scriptures.

[Deacon Lance]

You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

In my experience, people who have suffered little or nothing and had an easy life generally aren't very good people.  On the otherhand, all the people I know to be of exceptional character have suffered, sometimes horrifically, and grown because of it.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

HE LOVES EVIL TOO!

This is contrary to the Scriptures.

Really? Then explain (a) how Evil continues to exist considering that nothing exists aside from the Will and Power of God and (b) Romans 2?

Don't you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can't you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?

I wasn't suggesting on an eternal sense, but evil and suffering in the here and now.  God permits evil humans to exist out of his love for them, and in reality, whether we understand it or not, something similar must be going on between God and the Devil, because one way or the other, we see that God allows and actually sustains even the life of the Devil and his demons..

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Orthodox11]

I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

[Cavaradossi]

I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.

Hubris, pure and simple.

Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.

I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.

I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?

Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.

Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Cavaradossi]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.

No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I do not understand your argument. Orthonorm's posting behavior has no relevance to whether my observation is true or not.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I thank God that James has reconsidered. Glory be to God!

[Green_Umbrella]

Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty.   

More poverty pr0n. You don't like the casting. Poor folks can't be educated.

Uh huh. I noticed you did not answer any of my questions. It is a nice view and easy to shoot arrows from an ivory tower no doubt.