Author Topic: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic  (Read 1862 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline loser

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« on: September 17, 2012, 09:54:30 PM »
How does the EOC's view of the Nestorian church compare with Coptic? Catholic?
The reason I ask is because I have read that the EOC claims 4 of the original 5 patriarchates (antioch, constantinople, alexandria and jerusalem). It seems you replaced the coptic and syrian patriarchs, but refuse to replace the Roman. Its as if you see the Catholic Church as being more valid than the Coptic. Or as if you group, Coptic, Nestorian and Arian together.


Also, I was reading the history of chalcedon and it says that the church excomunicated Dioscorus. It didnt say that he excommunicated all of the Coptic bishops. How then is the Coptic church separated from the EOC? Shouldnt they still be united. Do the anathemas apply to successive genereations?

I will especially appreciate any answer from a clergyman.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 09:57:19 PM by loser »

Offline witega

  • Is it enough now, to tell you you matter?
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,614
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 12:05:50 AM »
How does the EOC's view of the Nestorian church compare with Coptic? Catholic?
The reason I ask is because I have read that the EOC claims 4 of the original 5 patriarchates (antioch, constantinople, alexandria and jerusalem). It seems you replaced the coptic and syrian patriarchs, but refuse to replace the Roman. Its as if you see the Catholic Church as being more valid than the Coptic. Or as if you group, Coptic, Nestorian and Arian together.

There is no EO Patriarch of Rome for the same reason there is no OO Patriarch of Constantinople (or Rome).

Quote
Also, I was reading the history of chalcedon and it says that the church excomunicated Dioscorus. It didnt say that he excommunicated all of the Coptic bishops. How then is the Coptic church separated from the EOC? Shouldnt they still be united. Do the anathemas apply to successive genereations?

The schism between EO and OO was not something that happened the day after Chalcedon was finished. Some Egyptian bishops accepted Chalcedon, some did not and communion did not immediately cease between the varying sides. At various times in the immediate decades afterwards there was sometimes one Patriarch of Alexandria (who might be Chalcedonian or might be non-Chalcedonian) and sometimes two, with the amount of time that there were two growing--with the duplication also spreading out to the other dioceses of the Church of Alexandria until eventually there were basically two separate synods and the schism settled in fully.
Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great

Offline jmbejdl

  • Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,480
  • Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 03:50:09 AM »
How does the EOC's view of the Nestorian church compare with Coptic? Catholic?
The reason I ask is because I have read that the EOC claims 4 of the original 5 patriarchates (antioch, constantinople, alexandria and jerusalem). It seems you replaced the coptic and syrian patriarchs, but refuse to replace the Roman.

The schism between EO and OO did not ever consist of entire patriarchates leaving, the patriarchates of Antioch and Alexandria split into rival camps. This is quite different from Rome where the whole patriarchate did go into schism. We haven't, therefore, replaced any patriarchs, we've just always recognised different patriarchs as legitimate compared to the OOs.

James
We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

Offline Randa

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 10:50:35 AM »
This a great blog about Church of the East theology by an Antiochan Orthodox presbyter who used to be a member of the Church of the East:

http://www.eastmeetseastblog.blogspot.com/

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 07:22:04 PM »
The EO response to Nestorianism: Nestorianism is a heresy. Nestorius and Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them are heretics.

The OO response to Nestorianism: (#())@# Nestorianism is a heresy. @(@(#* Nestorius and #*&@*%($ Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them, the $*&@&&$, are heretics, @(#*@ it.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Online NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,313
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 07:39:34 PM »
It seems you replaced the coptic and syrian patriarchs
They weren't replaced; there was a split and the Chalcedonians chose their bishops and the non-Chalcedonians chose theirs.


Its as if you see the Catholic Church as being more valid than the Coptic. Or as if you group, Coptic, Nestorian and Arian together.
No, its just that there were no Orthodox bishops in post-1204 Rome to do it, afaik.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline akimori makoto

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,126
  • No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 07:59:06 PM »
The EO response to Nestorianism: Nestorianism is a heresy. Nestorius and Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them are heretics.

The OO response to Nestorianism: (#())@# Nestorianism is a heresy. @(@(#* Nestorius and #*&@*%($ Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them, the $*&@&&$, are heretics, @(#*@ it.

This looks familiar ...
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,166
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 09:02:51 PM »
There is no EO Patriarch of Rome for the same reason there is no OO Patriarch of Constantinople (or Rome).

There is an OO Patriarch of Constantinople (and Jerusalem) both Armenian.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline HabteSelassie

  • Ises and I-ity
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,332
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 10:06:49 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The EO response to Nestorianism: Nestorianism is a heresy. Nestorius and Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them are heretics.

The OO response to Nestorianism: (#())@# Nestorianism is a heresy. @(@(#* Nestorius and #*&@*%($ Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them, the $*&@&&$, are heretics, @(#*@ it.



That would appear accurate to me.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,762
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 11:21:20 PM »
The EO response to Nestorianism: Nestorianism is a heresy. Nestorius and Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them are heretics.

The OO response to Nestorianism: (#())@# Nestorianism is a heresy. @(@(#* Nestorius and #*&@*%($ Theodore of Mopsuestia and those who follow them, the $*&@&&$, are heretics, @(#*@ it.

 :D

Seems about right.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 11:21:27 PM by Nephi »

Offline witega

  • Is it enough now, to tell you you matter?
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,614
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 03:15:54 AM »
There is no EO Patriarch of Rome for the same reason there is no OO Patriarch of Constantinople (or Rome).

There is an OO Patriarch of Constantinople (and Jerusalem) both Armenian.

Okay, clarification, there is no EO Patriarch of Rome for the same reason there was no OO Patriarch of Constantinople until the the 15th century.
Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,345
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Orthodox Church's view on Nestorianism--compare to Coptic
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2012, 03:20:03 AM »
There is no EO Patriarch of Rome for the same reason there is no OO Patriarch of Constantinople (or Rome).

There is an OO Patriarch of Constantinople (and Jerusalem) both Armenian.

Okay, clarification, there is no EO Patriarch of Rome for the same reason there was no OO Patriarch of Constantinople until the the 15th century.

Or There is no EO Patriarch of Rome for the same reason there is no Constantinopolitan OO Patriarch of Constantinople. Traditions of the Armenian are not the same as the traditions of the Constantinople.