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Author Topic: Pontifical University to Take on the Devil  (Read 1996 times) Average Rating: 0
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Nacho
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« on: December 09, 2004, 05:13:14 PM »

http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7043360


ROME (Reuters) - Forget the new "Exorcist" film, the Vatican is offering the real thing.

A Vatican university said on Thursday it will hold a special "theoretical and practical" course for Roman Catholic priests on Satanism and exorcism in response to what the Church says is a worrying interest in the occult, particularly among the young.

This year, Italy was gripped by the story of two teenage members of a heavy metal rock band called the "Beasts of Satan" who were killed by other band members in a human sacrifice.

The deaths horrified Catholic Italy, with pages of newspapers given over to descriptions of the black candles and goats' skulls decorating one victim's bedroom and witness statements of sexual violence.

The Regina Apostolorum, one of Rome's most prestigious pontifical universities, said in a statement that such episodes should be seen as an "alarm bell to take seriously a problem which is still far too underestimated."

"In the last few years there has been a lot of interest in Satanism and it develops because of the media. It's not that the devil is in the media, rock and roll or the Internet but the media can be damaging when it is used the wrong way," Carlo Climati, one of the professors of the course, told Reuters.

"For young people, interest in Satanism can start with a CD, move onto the Internet. From there, it sometimes develops into home-grown, seemingly harmless things like going to cemeteries but sometimes can lead to murders, as we have seen."

The two-month course, which begins in February and will be limited to priests and advanced students of theology, will include themes such as Satanism, diabolic possession and "prayers of liberation."

Satanism, the statement said, aimed to sow confusion among the young and promote a world without moral rules.

According to some estimates, as many as 5,000 people are thought to be members of Satanic cults in Italy with 17- to 25-year-olds making up three quarters of them.

Interest in the devil and the occult has been boosted by films such as "The Exorcist" in 1973 and this year's "Exorcist: The Beginning."

In 1999, the Vatican issued its first updated ritual for exorcism since 1614 and warned that the devil is still at work.

The official Roman Catholic exorcism starts with prayers, a blessing and sprinkling of holy water, the laying on of hands on the possessed, and the making of the sign of the cross.

It ends with an "imperative formula" in which the devil is ordered to leave the possessed.

The formula begins: "I order you, Satan..." It goes on to denounce Satan as "prince of the world" and "enemy of human salvation." It ends: "Go back, Satan." although he has kept a low
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Nacho
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 05:17:39 PM »

Two questions:

Is this problem with youth and satanism also a problem in Orthodox countries??

Also, are clergy in Orthodoxy as aware and sensitive to problems such as this?

Whenever I hear about stuff like this it seems to be only popping up in "western" countries and seems that protestants and RC's talk about and deal with this much more than in Orthodoxy.
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gphadraig
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 08:48:12 PM »

One example I may give is that of the monastery of Fili, just outside Athens. (Church calendar synod of Metropolitan Cyprian).

One day each week exorcisms are carried out there.

A priest friend of mine, Orthodox, once was asked to exorcise a house. He went and took careful note of all that was reported by the family living there. He performed an exocism, with the blessing of his bishop. The ceremony went without hitch but he felf exceedingly tired and went home. There he quickly fell asleep. Sometime later he awoke to find the room completely black and found breathing almost impossible. There was a great weight on his chest. He appeared to be suffocating. He tried to pray but the words impossible and so mentally recited the Lord's prayer. Slowly the weight began to lift and daylight flooded in the windows.

He told me he had been sceptical but not since that very frightening experience.

Myself, I once went to a churchyard reputed to be haunted. The graves were disordered and the covering stones - of great weight - thrown about like so many playing cards. I had taken a dog because my police friends reported theirs behaved oddly there. The dog showed no abnormal behaviour. However as I drove off a black cat kept pace with my car. I accelerated and still it kept pace and before my eyes ran ahead across the road before the vehicle. Now even a cheetah could not have matched the speed of that ordinary looking domestic black cat. I have no explanation, other than evil exists, and people may be affected but it. However, it is not the classical evil demon that scares me but the one that might appear as an angel of light and lead me astray
« Last Edit: December 10, 2004, 09:13:03 PM by gphadraig » Logged

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Nacho
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2004, 01:31:00 AM »

Quote
One example I may give is that of the monastery of Fili, just outside Athens. (Church calendar synod of Metropolitan Cyprian).

One day each week exorcisms are carried out there.

A priest friend of mine, Orthodox, once was asked to exorcise a house. He went and took careful note of all that was reported by the family living there. He performed an exocism, with the blessing of his bishop. The ceremony went without hitch but he felf exceedingly tired and went home. There he quickly fell asleep. Sometime later he awoke to find the room completely black and found breathing almost impossible. There was a great weight on his chest. He appeared to be suffocating. He tried to pray but the words impossible and so mentally recited the Lord's prayer. Slowly the weight began to lift and daylight flooded in the windows.

He told me he had been sceptical but not since that very frightening experience.

Myself, I once went to a churchyard reputed to be haunted. The graves were disordered and the covering stones - of great weight - thrown about like so many playing cards. I had taken a dog because my police friends reported theirs behaved oddly there. The dog showed no abnormal behaviour. However as I drove off a black cat kept pace with my car. I accelerated and still it kept pace and before my eyes ran ahead across the road before the vehicle. Now even a cheetah could not have matched the speed of that ordinary looking domestic black cat. I have no explanation, other than evil exists, and people may be affected but it. However, it is not the classical evil demon that scares me but the one that might appear as an angel of light and lead me astray


Holy smokes Shocked, that's some scary stuff man. I've experienced some bad stuff also somewhat similiar to what you are talking about.
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Pravoslavbob
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2004, 03:07:35 AM »

Is this problem with youth and satanism also a problem in Orthodox countries??

Also, are clergy in Orthodoxy as aware and sensitive to problems such as this?

Whenever I hear about stuff like this it seems to be only popping up in "western" countries and seems that protestants and RC's talk about and deal with this much more than in Orthodoxy.

Well, I don't know of sensational things like this that involve satanic metal bands and Orthodoxy, but that's not to say that someone else doesn't.  But the evil one works in many more ways than these, which tend to get a lot of publicity.

All the Orthodox clergy I have known have been aware of the enemy and his methods.  I myself know of a person who was posessed and eventually freed, though I don't think it was because of a direct exorcism.  It seemed that the demon left him when he moved from one city to another, and then others had to deal with the demon left behind.  I know another two young people who have been exorcised.  It seems in their cases that the demon was just sort of hanging around because they had encouraged demonic activity earlier in their lives.  (It didn't seem to be full-blown possession.)  

Orthodox liturgical services are littered with references to Christ overthrowing the Devil and the Devil being put in his place.  During reception into the catechumenate, there are long prayers of exorcism read over the candidate by the presiding priest which are very explicit.  (See "Baptism" published by DRE of the OCA : ISBN 0-86642-037-1) On the more mundane level, I can tell you that the more subtle wiles of the evil one are discussed not infrequently by myself and my spiritual director.  

A former(?) director of CARE Canada was once heard to remark that she had no belief in a personal evil before she went to the Balkans to work in the '90's during the terrible strife there.   After she came back to Canada, she found that she had developed such a belief during her time in the former Yugoslavia.  Doubtless many of the faithful there had had their belief in the evil one heightened as well.  I need not remind you of the incredible suffering that has been endured in the last century and before in Orthodox countries.  Believe me, the Orthodox are only too aware of the existence of the Devil and his works.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2004, 04:14:14 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2004, 08:02:13 AM »

Elder Paisios and Elder Porfyrios , two Greek starets, use to say, that excorcism , should be performed with humility, and not loud voices. Paisios use to say "Demons ARE NOT DEAF"  :-D

They both said that PUBLIC excorcism is really UNorthodox. Because

1st) It scares people out of their brains

2nd) It makes the Person that is posessed look really bad. I mean, think how they look like! It is not good to make a spectacle out of a peson which is ill

3d) In Public Excorcisms, the Demons get to show off, and maybe to get a grip on other people. Think about going to public excorcism , and the demon speaks, and starts to say EMBARASSING stuff about your life. Or, even worse, if mixed with the real stuff he says, he says some, that he WANTS YOU to believe, in order he can trick you.

Excorcism, can also be performed by monks, or laymen.  That is IF they are pure and humble. Some times , they just pray, using the prayer rope, and they fast, alone, so that the demon will go away, and it does.

There is a story about a man who was possesed, and went to a monastery, so he could bow and kiss the holy relics there.

While he waited in line, the demon took him, and he said ,rather angry, to the monk which was close: "Are we OBLIGED to bow to the relic?"
The monk said humbly " No. Only If yoy want to"
Then the demon said "Well, I HAVE TO bow to the relic, even though I don't want to" . After saying that, the man RUSHED and bowed to the Holy Relics.

Of course, the demon, went away.

_______

A close friend of mine , had contacs with  demons.
At that time, of course, he did not believe.

At some point he discovered that he "could get outside his body"
He had encouter with "female demons" (thats how they looked like anyway)

At some point, though, things got out of hand.
When he was "outside his body" he saw demons, that "tryied to get IN his body"
A demon tryied to rape him, one night. (NOT a female one)

Luckily, he met another friend of mine which is heavy into apologetics.
At time he started believing in Christ, and he went to confession.

The "visions" stopped, but he leaves the light on when he sleeps.

Mind you, he never actually practiced magic.
The "visions" just started to happen, on their own.
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2004, 08:15:39 AM »

Well, I don't know of sensational things like this that involve satanic metal bands and Orthodoxy, but that's not to say that someone else doesn't.  

Actually , there were some arrests, last year in Greece, of a mixed group that were satanist and neopagans (12 Gods worship) . Not olny they had a website which had blasphmous material, but the were involved in child pornography.

Last time I saw the "secretary of the synodical commitee against heresies", he said he had a talk with Vampires(!). Some sort of new Gothic-satanist fashion, that thinks they are vampires

So, the answer is: Yes. There are A LOT of satanists

Some of the Pagans here. use the label of "Atheist" or "skeptic", in order to fool people , and hit the church easier. They have managet to get thesmselves into high rating TV Shows, posing as "Scientists", that supposedly debunk christianity, because it is "unscientific"

They say that they are "atheist", while IS IS known that they are in fact pagan
In the process they sell thousands of antichristian Books.

Also there have been arrests of a satanic cult with ties to Germany.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2004, 08:19:13 AM by t0m_dR » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2004, 05:16:44 PM »

I have some sympathy for the views of the Elder Paisios on the wisdom or otherwise of 'public' excorism. Possibly part of the reason I deliberately kept away from any such occasions. There too is a danger to of being a bystander. I have heard of such persons suddenly being to centre of a malevolent demons attacks and that they would have kept silent being exposed to one and all.
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2004, 01:16:11 AM »



Actually , there were some arrests, last year in Greece, of a mixed group that were satanist and neopagans (12 Gods worship) . Not olny they had a website which had blasphmous material, but the were involved in child pornography.

Last time I saw the "secretary of the synodical commitee against heresies", he said he had a talk with Vampires(!). Some sort of new Gothic-satanist fashion, that thinks they are vampires

So, the answer is: Yes. There are A LOT of satanists

Some of the Pagans here. use the label of "Atheist" or "skeptic", in order to fool people , and hit the church easier. They have managet to get thesmselves into high rating TV Shows, posing as "Scientists", that supposedly debunk christianity, because it is "unscientific"

They say that they are "atheist", while IS IS known that they are in fact pagan
In the process they sell thousands of antichristian Books.

Also there have been arrests of a satanic cult with ties to Germany.

Lord, have mercy.
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