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CatholicEagle
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« on: December 09, 2004, 12:18:49 AM »

 Tell us which book should be burnt immediatley and all copies of it destroyed
List your answers by number after me [like 1. , 2. , 3.] Write as many as you want andafter venting write continue next

1. all the works of Karl Rahner SJ
2. heretical versions of the Bible
 continue next

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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 12:20:02 AM »

I LOVED Karl Rahner's "The Trinity." What an excellent book. It took 900 years to rip Aquinas's scholasticism to shreds, but it was worth the wait. I don't see how you can read that book and believe in Thomistic trinitarian theology anymore.

Other Rahner books I have not read though and I keep hearing they are liberal. Are they?

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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2004, 01:15:54 AM »

Supposedly "On the Development of Dogma" is a little extreme, even by RC standards.  As to the book-burning list...
3)anything by "bishop" Spong
4)anything by Dr. Laura
5)Thomas Merton's late works
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2004, 01:16:22 AM »

I LOVED Karl Rahner's "The Trinity." What an excellent book. It took 900 years to rip Aquinas's scholasticism to shreds, but it was worth the wait. I don't see how you can read that book and believe in Thomistic trinitarian theology anymore.

Other Rahner books I have not read though and I keep hearing they are liberal. Are they?

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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 01:42:12 AM »

Are you kidding me anastasios!!! Please say yes
Sir, the priest was a Jesuit who went on escapades with a german woman, who is now a "feminist activist". This lady wants female priests!!! What type of priest was he if he hng around such people! and accpeted them! not telling them to converyt


Have you read Rahner's the Trinity? Yes or no will suffice.

Anastasios
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2004, 03:24:02 AM »

Are you kidding me anastasios!!! Please say yes
Sir, the priest was a Jesuit who went on escapades with a german woman, who is now a "feminist activist".


Saint Augustine was no angel himself. Are you suggesting we burn his works?
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 06:27:31 AM »

I don't believe in burning any books. I love to read books by people that I disagree with on many subjects. It's the best way to be able to tear their arguments apart in a good debate.  Reading books with which we disagree teaches us HOW our opponents think.  If we burn all their books, how can be ever be properly prepared to debate them?
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2004, 06:28:21 AM »

Book burning, now where have we heard of that before? A dubious activity at best, perhaps?

Accepting the doubtful premise, here goes and in no particular order:

The Book of Mormom
All copies of the Watchtower
The Origin of Species, Charles Darwin
Lady Chatterley's lover, George Bernard Shaw
Mao's little red book
Mein Kampf
Thyatiera Confession, Archbishop Athenagoras

If I was more with it the list might rival, shudder, the notorious Index! But that would be to fall into a trap, I guess............... Have fun.
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2004, 10:08:48 AM »

I'm with Tikhon.  The mere jocular suggestion at book burning scares me.
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2004, 12:00:23 PM »

Me too...  I would only advocate burning books if they were really really badly written, which there are quite a few out there.  Burning books because of the ideas is a frightening concept, as every book will have someone wanting to burn it, no matter how good the contents are.
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2004, 04:27:25 PM »

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of books that I have read that I disagree with but I wouldn't burn them.

Books that I have disagreed with but wouldn't burn...

Dancing Alone
The Book of Mormon
The DaVinci Code
Anything by Dobson
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2004, 05:07:16 PM »

Quote
The Book of Mormom
All copies of the Watchtower
The Origin of Species, Charles Darwin
Lady Chatterley's lover, George Bernard Shaw
Mao's little red book
Mein Kampf
Thyatiera Confession, Archbishop Athenagoras


Wow, pretty close to what I was thinking also accept I don't know what the last book was about. I would also throw in anything written by Michael Moore and Karl Marx Cool

I totally agree on the watchtower stuff and book of mormon. If those two cults were never around that would have saved me many many hours of past debates with these people which was basically a big waste of time and energy.
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2004, 05:46:08 PM »

I wanna burn all those cheap and inexpensive romance novels they sell at cash registers, the really thick ones where the woman on the cover is enraptured by and embracing the large, beefy Fabio look-alike, and the title is in big gold letters, and the entire thing is raised from the paper so that even the blind can feel Fabio, and take him home for only $2.95.  I want to burn them because they suck.
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2004, 05:47:16 PM »

Me too...  I would only advocate burning books if they were really really badly written, which there are quite a few out there.  Burning books because of the ideas is a frightening concept, as every book will have someone wanting to burn it, no matter how good the contents are.  
but what if the ideas lead you to hell??? Didn't St.Athanasius punch Arius in the face, for spereading his heresies? Wink
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2004, 05:51:01 PM »

Book burning, eh? I was hoping that this was some kind of trick question.
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2004, 05:51:26 PM »

Quote
but what if the ideas lead you to hell??? Didn't St.Athanasius punch Arius in the face, for spereading his heresies?

For starters, legend has it that it was St. Nicholas who hit Arius.  

A much better way to combat evil ideas is to combat them with words, not flames.  As Christians, we are called to not be slaves to our passions, and that includes burning books.  We should be able to explain why ideas are bad and point people towards Christ so each person can accept Him of his or her own free will.  


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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2004, 06:10:49 PM »

Anything by Ann Raynd is okay to burn.
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2004, 06:12:09 PM »

Anything by Ann Raynd is okay to burn.

I had a friend who liked her. He read ALL of her books. Such a weird philosophy.

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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2004, 06:16:02 PM »

It's not her philosophy I find weird. It's her long on words writing that is like a spike through your skull!
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2004, 06:40:48 PM »

I had a friend who liked her. He read ALL of her books. Such a weird philosophy.

Anastasios

How old was he when he "discovered" Rand?  I have a theory that adolescents can be very drawn to Rand.  I think it's because her philosophy can very 'liberating' to young people.  

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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2004, 06:44:33 PM »

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Anything by Ann Raynd is okay to burn.

I was really into Ayn Rand in late high school...a lot of it made sense to me...i was a bit confused about a lot of things tho (still am! Tongue ) but yea, then i sort of reevaluated my faith in college, and the next time i thought of Rand, the thought was: oh man, she doesn't fly with me anymore - it's hard enough as it is to take the focus off of the self, but to have her encouraging it made me realize that my Rand days are over... Smiley

i still dont think it should be burned tho...i mean, my Rand phase was very important in my journey to the Church...generally, i dont think anything should be burned, for the reasons many have already stated...i mean, you need the opposite view in order for your view to even exist...many truths are reactionary to what is false and are only comprehensible AS truth when considered in relation to its counter-argument...
 
Quote
Books that I have disagreed with but wouldn't burn...

Dancing Alone
The Book of Mormon
The DaVinci Code
Anything by Dobson

Phos Zoe: what didn't you agree with in "Dancing Alone"? my priest has loaned it to me, and i plan to read it (among other books) during my winter break coming up...i will read it regardless, but i'm just curious Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2004, 06:45:25 PM »

Quote
How old was he when he "discovered" Rand?  I have a theory that adolescents can be very drawn to Rand.  I think it's because her philosophy can very 'liberating' to young people.

Jennifer, I concur...this is basically what happened to me (senior year of high school).
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2004, 07:05:51 PM »

For starters, legend has it that it was St. Nicholas who hit Arius.  

A much better way to combat evil ideas is to combat them with words, not flames.  As Christians, we are called to not be slaves to our passions, and that includes burning books.  We should be able to explain why ideas are bad and point people towards Christ so each person can accept Him of his or her own free will.  

I put a Wink after that post. Somehow it disappeared
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2004, 07:08:31 PM »

Yes CE, the smilies aren't working if you use Internet Explorer, you'll have to just kind of invent your own, like this...   =) or :-)
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2004, 07:13:57 PM »

For starters, legend has it that it was St. Nicholas who hit Arius.  

A much better way to combat evil ideas is to combat them with words, not flames.  As Christians, we are called to not be slaves to our passions, and that includes burning books.  We should be able to explain why ideas are bad and point people towards Christ so each person can accept Him of his or her[no more feminist revionism of the english language!] own free will.  
Well sometimes books need to be destroyed. If we prove to one person what he says is wrong and he believes, the book that taught him this is left alone and put back so more persons can fall into this error and the refutation of the heresy goes on and on in a continous cycle. Why let ths heresy grow, when it can be destroyed. Don't underestimate the power of books.

Our Lady is called the Exterminatrix of Heresies by us Catholics.  She is not called  the  "fight heresies,refute them to one person, and then let the source of the heresy exist so as to contaminate others-ix"
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« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2004, 08:09:02 PM »

For starters, we could send in the "firemen" to burn Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451".  A book which perhaps some of the advocates of book burning would find dangerous.
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« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2004, 08:37:19 PM »

If the books of the ancient heretics were still around, maybe we could thus better understand the reaction of the Orthodox and get a better historical perspective in some cases.
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« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2004, 08:53:49 PM »

Our Lady is called the Exterminatrix of Heresies by us Catholics.

Kewl, dude!  Where is this to be found in the texts of the Church?
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« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2004, 09:16:17 PM »

If the books of the ancient heretics were still around, maybe we could thus better understand the reaction of the Orthodox and get a better historical perspective in some cases.
I say monasteries -  but taking into fact that most books pre1800 are now decomposed I hardly believe that it would be possible to get these books. I also believe that the knowledge the Church has given to us through the ages, in Her teaching wisdom is sufficient enough but I do see what your getting at. Sadly though, what you say can be stretched out to say "We need to read the  pseudoGospels to find out about what Mary Magdalene and JEsus did." This could result in a major insult to the Christ, and as we all know He must be glorified by all,not abhorred,hated and ridiculed
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« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2004, 09:42:10 PM »

Hmm...seems like most people are taking this a bit more seriously than I did...perhaps I should clarify that I was just joking...except perhaps about the Dr. Laura books. ;-)  But seriously, you never know how a certain book, or anything for that matter, is going to influence someone.  There is very little that is wholly false, and the closer something is to being so, the more likely it is to repel the reader, perhaps leading them in an indirect way to the truth.  As a personal example, the writings of Nietzsche played a role in bringing me back to faith after a time away.
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« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2004, 10:15:49 PM »

Well sometimes books need to be destroyed.

And who decides *what* book should be burnt?  What if someone doesn't like a book that *you* do? I don't trust humans to have that kind of power. The temptation to Sin is too strong.

Burning books is evil.  I see that Theodore beat me to citing "Farenheit 451"  A book that should be read more often.  I can also recommend Nat Hentoff's "The Day They Came to Arrest the Book" a young adult novel about an attempt to get "Huckleberry Finn" out of a school.  (Something that has happened in real life)

And who is to say that such "cleansing"/burning would stop at "heresies"?  Why stop there? What would stop someonewho had that power from getting rid of volumes that he/she didn't happen to like or approve of in other areas?

Quote
Why let ths heresy grow, when it can be destroyed.

What guarantee is there that it will be gone permanently with one burned book?  Arianism has popped up centuries after Arius (JW's for example)  How are you going to keep an idea from developing in a Human mind?

Quote
Don't underestimate the power of books.

I assure you, I don't.  Neither do I underestimate the lure of Power to a human being.  "Who will guard the guardians?"

Quote
Our Lady is called the Exterminatrix of Heresies by us Catholics.  

Perhaps one could leave things to her and keep the human hands off the match boxes.

Ebor

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« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2004, 10:18:05 PM »

I'm with Tikhon.  The mere jocular suggestion at book burning scares me.

Same here, Schultz.  It has a bad history.

Ebor
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« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2004, 10:20:36 PM »

I wanna burn all those cheap and inexpensive romance novels they sell at cash registers, the really thick ones where the woman on the cover is enraptured by and embracing the large, beefy Fabio look-alike, and the title is in big gold letters, and the entire thing is raised from the paper so that even the blind can feel Fabio, and take him home for only $2.95.  I want to burn them because they suck.    

Not my cuppa, but will you then let the ladies who like those books burn one that you like, but they don't?  8-)

Ebor
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« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2004, 10:24:26 PM »

Anything by Ann Raynd is okay to burn.

Eh, there are some good bits of writing in The Fountainpen errr head  8-) It's getting to them through the manifesto that can be hard.   I have to confess that I've never made it through Atlas Slogged and let's not get started on Anthem

Ebor
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« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2004, 10:31:31 PM »

At least Anthem's short lol.  The suffering only lasts so long...
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« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2004, 10:33:34 PM »

I say monasteries -  but taking into fact that most books pre1800 are now decomposed I hardly believe that it would be possible to get these books.

<raised eyebrow glyph> Oh?  There are still books from centuries ago that survive with care.  And things written on parchment or vellum can last a very long time, and that was the common medium for writting for quite a while until paper making was easier (I am speaking here of Europe and the Middle East here.  The making of paper in many elaborate forms was highly developed in Japan over 1000 years ago, for example)

Just a suggestion:  People who advocate burning books that they don't like can be objects of ridicule and abhorrance to others who may extend those feelings to that which the burners proclaim...such as Jesus.

Ebor  "So Many Books, So Little Time"
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« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2004, 10:33:48 PM »

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Eh, there are some good bits of writing in The Fountainpen errr head  8-) It's getting to them through the manifesto that can be hard.  I have to confess that I've never made it through Atlas Slogged and let's not get started on Anthem

Ebor

I have read Fountainhead and Anthem...Anthem was fun just as a futuristic, extremist sorta thing...i like tales like that, about "what if's?" regarding our future as a race, etc...basically for intellectual reasons more than anything else (I rarely believe in the ideologies that give birth to such depictions..I just like to think Smiley )...Fountainhead was the one I read and was very into (picked it up to try to win some scholarship money - the Ayn Rand Institute has essay contests if u read the books and write essays on em...I didnt win, alas)...I own Atlas Shrugged, but havent read it, and dont know if I will ever get the time or desire to actually pick it up and try: I've discovered a lot more reading that I'm far more interested in, since I bought it, and I very well may never get to it. Oh well. Wink

I'm not gunna burn it tho, caz I paid for it! lol i'll prolly sell it or donate it one day Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2004, 10:36:39 PM »

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 At least Anthem's short lol.  The suffering only lasts so long...

Yes, that was a perk, and the reason I made it my second Rand read (after Fountainhead) instead of Atlas Shrugged Wink...it also turned out to be my last Rand read...not because of Anthem specifically, but just because of where I suddenly found myself on my spiritual journey when I thought about her again, mid-college, and realized I had lost interest.
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« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2004, 10:38:10 PM »

At least Anthem's short lol.  The suffering only lasts so long...

Well, there *is* that.  <grin>

Ebor
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« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2004, 11:53:37 PM »

I say monasteries -  but taking into fact that most books pre1800 are now decomposed I hardly believe that it would be possible to get these books.

CE,

Come to SVS library and I can show you plenty of books pre-1800 that are still in good shape.  The paper in fact is much sturdier than what was being used until recently.  

Are you gonna answer my previous question to you?

Tony
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« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2004, 12:01:13 AM »

I have read Fountainhead and Anthem...Anthem was fun just as a futuristic, extremist sorta thing...i like tales like that, about "what if's?" regarding our future as a race, etc...basically for intellectual reasons more than anything else (I rarely believe in the ideologies that give birth to such depictions..I just like to think

I read "Anthem" for the future dystopia/SF angle.  It was the part near the end where the protagonist is naming the woman and coming across like Howard Roarke without the buildings that it got me squint-eyed.  *He* can be a ruler and master of his destiny but she is a sort of "yes-woman" to his enlightened state.  It's been over a decade maybe 2 since I read it.  But I think I have it somewhere on the shelves along with the 2 Major Tomes.  

If you like speculations of future societies/dystopias/utopias I can recommend some good ones.

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« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2004, 12:05:52 AM »

CE,

Come to SVS library and I can show you plenty of books pre-1800 that are still in good shape.  The paper in fact is much sturdier than what was being used until recently.  
Tony

Yep.  The paper then wasn't the acid kind that's so common now (recall that top drawer books note that they're printed on "acid free paper".  I speculate that a higher rag content also helped rather then straight wood pulp like in newsprint paper.

Ebor
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« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2004, 12:12:20 AM »

Quote
If you like speculations of future societies/dystopias/utopias I can recommend some good ones.

This is the aspect of Sci-Fi that I am interested in...mostly my interests lie in Fantasy (vs. Sci-Fi), but the quasi-realistic future-speculating sorta sci-fi is something I am very into Smiley I would love some recommendations...my personal favorite thus far is The Time Machine by H.G. Wells...that blew my mind. Smiley I have yet to read 1984, but have it on my shelf and will get to it eventually I am sure.

Actually, that was a lie...my ACTUAL favorite is The Giver by Lois Lowrey...that's downright one of my favorite books (futuristic or otherwise)...and to complement it is the latest book Lowrey wrote as a companion to The Giver, called Gathering Blue, which is sort of another angle on a possible future for us, with the possibility that the world of The Giver might run simultaneously, if that makes sense. You hafta read it to get what I mean, but what I especially love about Gathering Blue is that the young protagonist is a girl Smiley I am very excited because Lowrey says she is planning to write a third to round out the trilogy-cluster that began with The Giver. Smiley
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« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2004, 12:12:54 AM »

Yep.  The paper then wasn't the acid kind that's so common now (recall that top drawer books note that they're printed on "acid free paper".  I speculate that a higher rag content also helped rather then straight wood pulp like in newsprint paper.

Ebor

Dear Ebor,

Yes, we know have to provide our theses on acid-free paper as the paper with acid deteriorates.  

Many of the older books' binding is in bad condition but the paper is still in reasonably good shape.

Tony
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« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2004, 12:29:07 AM »

Burning books is counter-productive. It just lends more authority to the surviving copies.
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« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2004, 04:23:46 AM »

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I wanna burn all those cheap and inexpensive romance novels they sell at cash registers, the really thick ones where the woman on the cover is enraptured by and embracing the large, beefy Fabio look-alike, and the title is in big gold letters, and the entire thing is raised from the paper so that even the blind can feel Fabio, and take him home for only $2.95.  I want to burn them because they suck.

:rofl:  That is absolutely hilarious! Kudos to you Mor. :grin:

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« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2004, 10:09:59 AM »

I was really i
 Phos Zoe: what didn't you agree with in "Dancing Alone"? my priest has loaned it to me, and i plan to read it (among other books) during my winter break coming up...i will read it regardless, but i'm just curious Smiley

Frankie Shaeffer is the progeny of Frances Shaeffer a prominant evangelical christian. Shaeffer the younger has a real anger towards his past and is extremly bitter about Western culture. Many of his arguments are overly simplistic and come off silly. He has NO "real" theological training If I remember correctly he has fine art degree from a bible college.  

Also, I wasn't raised evangelical protestant so I had a hard time relating to his story.

Keep in mind he is no more expert on orthodoxy than your average well read lay person.
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« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2004, 10:17:08 AM »

Also, I wasn't raised evangelical protestant so I had a hard time relating to his story.

Well, I came form a period of Evangelical Protestantism and I thought the book was way to strident and oversimplified Protestantism.

He is doing the typical rabid Orthodox Convert thing (and something that I was also guilty of) in that he damns everything Protestant. It's not so black and white.
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« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2004, 11:06:45 AM »

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Our Lady is called the Exterminatrix of Heresies by us Catholics...

That's funny, because the only place I've ever seen this in "print" is in a couple blogs on the web.  Never in actual print in any of even the most traditional Catholic books I've read, which are quite numerous.  

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« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2004, 12:01:54 PM »

PhoeZoe,

I, too, have reservations about Dancing Alone and about the man's message (I met him in person once).  However, I would like to address two points you made:

"Also, I wasn't raised evangelical protestant so I had a hard time relating to his story."

But wouldn't you say that as living in America you are already exposed to an overwhelmingly Protestant culture?  Most people understand the life Frank S. lived growing up even if it wasn't their family.  Maybe you were lucky (I mean that sincerely) and weren't affected by that as much as others?  It could be a regional thing, too; in the South certainly Protestantism is more openly pervasive and affects non-Protestants to a greater extent than say in California or Michigan.

"Keep in mind he is no more expert on orthodoxy than your average well read lay person."

I can't really agree with you there, because while you are right that he does have no advanced degree, he has years of experience working with the Greek Archdiocese and touring the country giving speeches--he has to have more experience than an average well-read layman then.

Again, I have reservations about the book as well.

Anastasios
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« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2004, 12:20:42 PM »

But wouldn't you say that as living in America you are already exposed to an overwhelmingly Protestant culture?

Ah, but now you're falling into the typical Ortho-Catholic mistake of looking at Protestants as if they represented one single system. Let me assure you that people raised in most of the mainline Protestant bodies find the evangelicals a bit alien-- and that the evangelicals tend to find the mainlines quite alien.

I can't say how much that particular split is reflected in his books, but it's really obvious that he has "convertitis" in spades.
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« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2004, 12:30:39 PM »

I wanna burn all those cheap and inexpensive romance novels they sell at cash registers, the really thick ones where the woman on the cover is enraptured by and embracing the large, beefy Fabio look-alike, and the title is in big gold letters, and the entire thing is raised from the paper so that even the blind can feel Fabio, and take him home for only $2.95.  I want to burn them because they suck.    

LOL... When my brother-in-law first came to the States, because of his long blond hair & very good looks (plus the guy's huge, like 6'5 or something), we called him Fabio.  Being a boy from Ukraine, he had no idea who Fabio was, and it had to be explained to him... amoung the first phrases we taught him to say (on que  Grin ) was.. "I can't believe it's not buttah..."
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« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2004, 12:39:50 PM »

...spray.
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« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2004, 01:03:42 PM »

http://www.ala.org/Images/OIF/28-1124a.gif
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« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2004, 01:05:21 PM »

jmell, hopefully this one will come out a bit larger...
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« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2004, 01:44:00 PM »

Ah, but now you're falling into the typical Ortho-Catholic mistake of looking at Protestants as if they represented one single system. Let me assure you that people raised in most of the mainline Protestant bodies find the evangelicals a bit alien-- and that the evangelicals tend to find the mainlines quite alien.

I can't say how much that particular split is reflected in his books, but it's really obvious that he has "convertitis" in spades.


Well I grew up "Mainstream" and yes we made fun of evangelicals in my home as "wacko" but in reality, Evangelical stuff made its way into our Lutheran Church and our home all the time.

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« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2004, 01:48:01 PM »



But wouldn't you say that as living in America you are already exposed to an overwhelmingly Protestant culture?  Most people understand the life Frank S. lived growing up even if it wasn't their family.  Maybe you were lucky (I mean that sincerely) and weren't affected by that as much as others?  It could be a regional thing, too; in the South certainly Protestantism is more openly pervasive and affects non-Protestants to a greater extent than say in California or Michigan.


I certainly agree that all Americans regardless of religion have been exposed to Protestant culture.  But I think that if you're raised Catholic or Orthodox that you have a kind of 'insulation' against fundamentalism regardless of where you were raised.  

For example, I once dated a Jewish guy from west Texas.  West Texas is Church of Christ country.  There are probably a few hundred Jews in all of west Texas.  However, he had no understanding of Christianity at all which really surprised me.  He went to public school and was raised Reform.  But being Jewish he completely ignored all of the Christian things around him.  

I think the same phenomen exists for those of us raised Catholic or Orthodox.  I've written here before about coming from the Bible Belt.  However, my knowledge of protestantism is completely anecdotal.  I have to admit that my understanding of fundamentalist Christianity is shallow.  
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« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2004, 01:52:32 PM »

Burning books is counter-productive. It just lends more authority to the surviving copies.


I guess I have to agree with Keble here. I'm not sure about the authority-thing but these acts do seem a variant of historical revisionism.
Fearing ideas belies one's own belief foundations, no?

That said, last week my wife and I, avid readers both, culled our 3000-4000 volumes. This is an annual event. I came across a book entitled, The Olympian Reader, sent to me from my father who keeps us well supplied with material. Seems he bought it based on the title, did not like it, and sent it on to me -"in case I liked it". It is French pornography in translation. I'm too embarrassed to even give it away.
It will be incinerated here.

Demetri
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« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2004, 02:03:04 PM »

Quote
That said, last week my wife and I, avid readers both, culled our 3000-4000 volumes. This is an annual event. I came across a book entitled, The Olympian Reader, sent to me from my father who keeps us well supplied with material. Seems he bought it based on the title, did not like it, and sent it on to me -"in case I liked it". It is French pornography in translation. I'm too embarrassed to even give it away.
It will be incinerated here.

LOL.
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« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2004, 02:16:53 PM »

oh my, that photo is scary...
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« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2004, 03:13:55 PM »

:rofl:  That is absolutely hilarious! Kudos to you Mor. :grin:

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I'm glad someone took it for what it really was.  

I'm not much into book-burning myself, for many of the same reasons other posters have presented.  I'm surprised, actually, that this thread was actually taken seriously.  I didn't take it seriously, hence my original post.

I certainly agree that all Americans regardless of religion have been exposed to Protestant culture.  But I think that if you're raised Catholic or Orthodox that you have a kind of 'insulation' against fundamentalism regardless of where you were raised.

Jennifer,

I would agree with this, provided that the person(s) in question worked within the system.  Kim, for example, has never attended any Protestant service whatsoever (probably not even any non-"apostolic Christian" religious service).  I suppose her situation is analogous to your situation and that of your Jewish friend.  However, I know enough Orthodox, EO's, and RC's who are into the fundamentalist Protestant stuff to know that it really depends on how seriously you follow your faith.  Just as our Lord said that no one could snatch His out of His hand, so no one can snatch us out of His Church...but plenty opt to roam around and "see what's out there".
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« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2004, 03:35:18 PM »

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Kim, for example, has never attended any Protestant service whatsoever (probably not even any non-"apostolic Christian" religious service).

This is basically my situation as well (in fact, Kim and I were raised in the same RC church, so we basically have parallel faith-backgrounds, at least up until college Smiley ) - I have never attended a non-apostalic service, as Phil put it - so I would tend to agree with Jennifer...I went to school in a school district with large baptist population, but I never felt oppressed by it or anything. Everyone sort of did their own thing and didn't care what others did, which was nice.
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« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2004, 05:03:23 PM »


But wouldn't you say that as living in America you are already exposed to an overwhelmingly Protestant culture?  Most people understand the life Frank S. lived growing up even if it wasn't their family.  Maybe you were lucky (I mean that sincerely) and weren't affected by that as much as others?  It could be a regional thing, too; in the South certainly Protestantism is more openly pervasive and affects non-Protestants to a greater extent than say in California or Michigan.
Anastasios


Good point Anastasios...

Well, I grew up as a Serbian halfbreed in NW Indiana which is a giant melting pot many people (Think Pittsburg but more Midwestern) most of the people I knew growing up where either Orthodox, Mainline Protestant or Roman Catholic. My view of the world as a child was colored by this. My only exposure to Evangelical protestants was Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker on TBN.  I didn't interact with a single Evangelical Protestant until I moved to central Indiana for college. Central Indiana is Evangelical and nondenominational barn church country. I am more affected by EP's now per my location than I was growing up.  So while I agree that America is overwhelmingly Protestant in thought and culture there are pockets of the good ole USA that are not so Protestant.
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« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2004, 08:30:25 PM »

Couple of points or comments:

First, an Anglican friend of mine once said I would never understand Anglicanism. He was right.

Second, book burning has a rather nasty historical association with totalitarian regimes of the worst kind, along with the brutal treatment and murder of those who oppose them in any way, shape or form.

Third, but this thread is an indulgent phantasy?

Archbishop Athenagora Kokkinas, while a bishop of the EP in London, wrote the Thyteria Confession. It appeared to consign much Orthodox teaching on the uniqueness of the Orthodox Church to the cupboard or closet. It drew much condemnation from traditionlists at the time of publication. Of all the books I have at home, it the only one with a boldly written cautionary note on the front page.........

A close friend of mine was told the following tale by his Serbian parish priest.

An author died and went to hell. He suffered great torments, and was especially afraid of the demons that populated that dark place. After a time he noticed that some of his peers were moved to a place of lesser torment. Having finally struggled to find the courage he asked one of the demons why he was still there. The demon barely appeared to listen but he persisted. The demon growled, "And why should you not be here". The man replied, "I am only a writer of books, but murderers, robbers, and worse come and go, but I a mere writer of books remain here?" And the demon roared, "As long as men read your books so shall you remain in this place of special torment!"

The Serbian priest quite clearly was making what he thought was an important point about the dangers that a book might pose.......
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« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2004, 02:07:41 AM »

Ajj this started as a little joke haha funny. fun fun but then I got serious for some reason[i was talking to neoconCatholics that day, so that;s why] Mor ephrem has the right idea
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« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2004, 02:07:41 AM »

PhoeZoe,

I, too, have reservations about Dancing Alone and about the man's message (I met him in person once).  However, I would like to address two points you made:

"Also, I wasn't raised evangelical protestant so I had a hard time relating to his story."

But wouldn't you say that as living in America you are already exposed to an overwhelmingly Protestant culture?  Most people understand the life Frank S. lived growing up even if it wasn't their family.  Maybe you were lucky (I mean that sincerely) and weren't affected by that as much as others?  It could be a regional thing, too; in the South certainly Protestantism is more openly pervasive and affects non-Protestants to a greater extent than say in California or Michigan.

"Keep in mind he is no more expert on orthodoxy than your average well read lay person."

I can't really agree with you there, because while you are right that he does have no advanced degree, he has years of experience working with the Greek Archdiocese and touring the country giving speeches--he has to have more experience than an average well-read layman then.

Again, I have reservations about the book as well.

Anastasios

Yah anastasios,
We in Michigan also have plenty of Protestants.. [There's only 3 million Catholics here] Especially around Grand Rapids. Please do remember that Michigan also has a huge Muslim population[for da USA] and Muslims are scarier than Protestants with their shrieks to da devil and terrible smelling food.
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« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2004, 03:42:37 AM »

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Ajj this started as a little joke haha funny. fun fun but then I got serious for some reason[i was talking to neoconCatholics that day, so that;s why] Mor ephrem has the right idea

well for me, this thread simply turned into an excuse to talk about books and literature, which is always fun Grin
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« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2004, 09:19:43 AM »

5 whole pages on book burning...and no one's even mentioned the Qu'ran, that filthy, lying, joke of a book?
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« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2004, 09:53:06 AM »

AMEN!  Preach on, brotha!
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« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2004, 10:02:49 AM »

5 whole pages on book burning...and no one's even mentioned the Qu'ran, that filthy, lying, joke of a book?


Why waste a perfectly good match?
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« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2004, 12:11:22 PM »

But wouldn't you say that as living in America you are already exposed to an overwhelmingly Protestant culture?  Most people understand the life Frank S. lived growing up even if it wasn't their family.  Maybe you were lucky (I mean that sincerely) and weren't affected by that as much as others?  It could be a regional thing, too; in the South certainly Protestantism is more openly pervasive and affects non-Protestants to a greater extent than say in California or Michigan.

I was raised Jewish, in New Jersey, so while I was aware of evangelical Protestantism (mostly because of how it's ridiculed on TV all the time), I wasn't that influenced by it. I was brought up in a secular culture. Anyway, it's not so much that I'm not familiar with evangelical Protestantism, but that when I read the plethora of Orthodox books directed towards Protestant inquirers it just didn't apply to me. For instance, I LOVED Matthew Gallatin's Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells, but there were entire chapters that just weren't necessary for me. I never needed anyone to talk to me about Mary and calling a priest "father" and asking the saints to pray for us; they were never issues for me. I had other issues, like calling God "He," the lack of women priests, "organized religion," dogma, etc. (Issues I have since overcome and then some, btw.)

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« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2004, 12:41:10 PM »

Yah anastasios,
We in Michigan also have plenty of Protestants.. [There's only 3 million Catholics here] Especially around Grand Rapids. Please do remember that Michigan also has a huge Muslim population[for da USA] and Muslims are scarier than Protestants with their shrieks to da devil and terrible smelling food.
terrible smelling food???  You've got to be kidding.  Say what you want about the Islamic religion, but middle eastern food is not only pretty tasty, but much more healthy than most western food.  I can't think of any middle-eastern food which can possibly be more foul and disgusting as kiszka (blood sausage).  The age old question "who stole the kiszka?"  can be answered "Someone who wished to spare people from suffering."
BTW, 3 million Roman Catholics out of a population of about 9-10 million is almost 1/3 of the population, which is higher than the national average.  Of course Grand Rapids and much of western Michigan is a Dutch Reformed wasteland...  Wink
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« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2004, 01:07:50 PM »

I can't think of any middle-eastern food which can possibly be more foul and disgusting as kiszka (blood sausage).  The age old question "who stole the kiszka?"  can be answered "Someone who wished to spare people from suffering."

I agree.  While I love Argentine cuisine when it comes to plain old MEAT, they also have "delicacies" such as blood sausage and "sweet bread" which is neither sweet, nor bread...
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« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2004, 02:44:28 PM »

Sounds like "Coffee Talk":  "I'm all for-clempt.  I'll give you a topic- sweet bread.  It's not bread, it's not sweet.  Discuss."
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« Reply #74 on: December 11, 2004, 02:55:22 PM »

CatholicEagle,

My mother lives in Michigan and I have been there many times.  Protestants are not as aggressive as a general rule than in North Carolina. Trust me.

As for the remarks about Arab food, I think it smells good, tastes good, and is generally well the best food on earth.

Anastasios
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« Reply #75 on: December 11, 2004, 03:10:22 PM »

As for the remarks about Arab food, I think it smells good, tastes good, and is generally well the best food on earth.

Yeah, almost on a par with Indian food.   Tongue
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« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2004, 03:21:43 PM »

When it comes to Chicken Reshmi Kabob and Chicken Tikka Masala, I would have to agree with you Phil. But then again, most Indian meat foods came from the Arabs Wink
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« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2004, 05:40:48 PM »

And seeing how most Greek food is really Turkish or Arab, I have to agree with Anastasios's "best food on earth" comment. (Must we do this during the fast? I'm getting lentilitis already.)

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« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2004, 05:45:41 PM »

When it comes to Chicken Reshmi Kabob and Chicken Tikka Masala, I would have to agree with you Phil. But then again, most Indian meat foods came from the Arabs Wink

Bah!  You've never been to the South, what do you know?  Tongue
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« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2004, 05:54:52 PM »

Phil,

First, there was a smiley there just so you are aware LOL (stupid internet explorer bug!)

Second, the Muslims did get all the way down to Tamil Nadu as you know during the Mughal period Smiley (smiley again)

I love Indian vegetarian food though, as well!

Anastasios
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« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2004, 06:22:57 PM »

Phil,

First, there was a smiley there just so you are aware LOL (stupid internet explorer bug!)

I saw it.  Did you see mine?  Wink

Quote
Second, the Muslims did get all the way down to Tamil Nadu as you know during the Mughal period Smiley (smiley again)

Let's not get started about Tamils, Dustinji... Wink
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« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2004, 06:27:10 PM »

Phil,

No I didn't see it LOL

Oh man we need these smilies back.

Anastasios
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« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2004, 07:11:24 PM »

Tell us which book should be burnt immediatley and all copies of it destroyed
List your answers by number after me [like 1. , 2. , 3.] Write as many as you want andafter venting write continue next

1. all the works of Karl Rahner SJ
2. heretical versions of the Bible
 continue next



Well,  I suppose you are kidding  Grin

But anyway, NO BOOK, no matter HOW BLASPHEMOUS, should be destoryed.

The monks of the Eastern Roman Empire, use to copy, with GREAT HARDSHIP , books that were antichristian, such as the works of emperor Julian, or the works of the pagan philosopher Porphyrios.  


P.S.
A comment about Arab/hindu/eastern food: If it doesnt make your eyes red, your nose running, and your ears itching, IT IS NO GOOD. (yes, I like spicy food!  Tongue )

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The smileys STILL do not work! :-(
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« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2004, 08:41:44 PM »

"The smileys STILL do not work! :-("

Yes, we are well aware of that. They won't be working until Robert has time to fix them.

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« Reply #84 on: December 11, 2004, 09:08:08 PM »

terrible smelling food???  You've got to be kidding.  Say what you want about the Islamic religion, but middle eastern food is not only pretty tasty, but much more healthy than most western food.  I can't think of any middle-eastern food which can possibly be more foul and disgusting as kiszka (blood sausage).  The age old question "who stole the kiszka?"  can be answered "Someone who wished to spare people from suffering."
BTW, 3 million Roman Catholics out of a population of about 9-10 million is almost 1/3 of the population, which is higher than the national average.  Of course Grand Rapids and much of western Michigan is a Dutch Reformed wasteland...  Wink
Kiszka is peasant Ukrainian food... You people are weird, making a stupid children's song a "philosophical question".As my mother would say "Filozofii!!!!"[Philosophers!!]

Actually true Polish food has been considered more Asian than European for many many years.  Adam Zamoyski, in his book The Polish Way[my addition: the only way!!] tells us that Polish food of the 1600-1700's was very close to North Indian cooking! TAKE THAT!
What is now passed off as Polish food is the peasant food of the 1800's, since the majority of immigrants were peasants.  Also all this sausage  and sweet bread talk is insulting German food not Polish food.
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« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2004, 09:16:40 PM »

Kiszka is peasant Ukrainian food... You people are weird, making a stupid children's song a "philosophical question".As my mother would say "Filozofii!!!!"[Philosophers!!]

Actually true Polish food has been considered more Asian than European for many many years.  Adam Zamoyski, in his book The Polish Way[my addition: the only way!!] tells us that Polish food of the 1600-1700's was very close to North Indian cooking! TAKE THAT!
What is now passed off as Polish food is the peasant food of the 1800's, since the majority of immigrants were peasants.  Also all this sausage  and sweet bread talk is insulting German food not Polish food.


Dude, have you been to Poland?
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« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2004, 09:20:32 PM »

Are you gonna answer my previous question to you?

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CatholicEagle,

This makes it the third time I am asking you.  Have the courtesy to reply please.  

Do you think it is a Christian or a Roman Catholic virtue to be rude?

TonyS
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« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2004, 09:51:08 PM »

Dude, have you been to Poland?  
Yes dude
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« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2004, 10:05:03 PM »

CE:

So, you talk about Polish food of 1600-1700 as being more like North Indian (of the same period?), and about immigration in the 1800 (to where?).  How does this account for Polish food of today being remarkably well placed?, in other words, it does not stand out from the foods of its neighbors but exists on a continuum.

I've been to Poland too, and I like food, I ate as much as I could.  Like I said above, it is much like the food of its neighbors, the foods of Ukraine, Slovakia and Czech Republich, been to those places too.

Tony
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« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2004, 10:09:31 PM »

CatholicEagle,

This makes it the third time I am asking you.  Have the courtesy to reply please.  

Do you think it is a Christian or a Roman Catholic virtue to be rude?

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Oh kay I can't find a reference.. Sorry the apocalypse isn't here yet
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« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2004, 11:43:32 PM »

Yeah, almost on a par with Indian food.   Tongue
Agree 100%!  Indian food is the most sublime thing.  (Big grin.)
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« Reply #91 on: December 12, 2004, 08:18:38 PM »

Ajj this started as a little joke haha funny. fun fun but then I got serious for some reason[i was talking to neoconCatholics that day, so that;s why] Mor ephrem has the right idea

Transmitting humour on a posting can be tricky. Judicious use of smilies and other hints can help.  Otoh, some things aren't joking matters to many people, and Book burning is one of them it would seem.  

Ebor
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« Reply #92 on: December 12, 2004, 08:33:26 PM »

This is the aspect of Sci-Fi that I am interested in...mostly my interests lie in Fantasy (vs. Sci-Fi), but the quasi-realistic future-speculating sorta sci-fi is something I am very into Smiley I would love some recommendations...my personal favorite thus far is The Time Machine by H.G. Wells...that blew my mind. Smiley I have yet to read 1984, but have it on my shelf and will get to it eventually I am sure.

Well, there is Huxley's Brave New World as a classic.  Then there's The Dispossed by Ursula K. LeGuin.  Others that I've read are This Perfect Day by Ira Levin and an old one Looking Backward by Bellamy  

Some sort of dystopia stories are founded on an idea of "after a holocaust" like climate change, epidemics, nuclear war and so forth.  They could be considered more speculations of how societies would rebuild.  Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale I think sort of fits here.  Though I have to say, I found her axe-grinding too strong.  Laurie King, who most writes mysteries has an SF future society after disaster book that I'm starting, Califia's Daughters.  She wrote in a sort of response to Atwood and her cowed women with the "evil male oppressors" keeping power.

If you like, I can think of more (I'll go paw through the SF shelves in the basement.)  8-)

Ebor
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« Reply #93 on: December 12, 2004, 08:42:17 PM »

As a kind of related idea, the list of 1000 most found books that I linked to over in The Other Board has a subset of what books on the list have been banned at one time or another.  It references a 4 volume work on banning with the reasons given as for reasons of Political, Religious, Sexual or Social grounds.  

Here's the link: http://www.oclc.org/research/top1000/banned.htm

While with some books it was obvious the reason for banning, others puzzled me and I haven't figured them out yet.  For example: #38 on the list is The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes!  Why would *that* be banned, I wonder.    Or #88 Little House on the Prairie by Laura Ingalls Wilder.  And in the Hugely Ironic department, #50 on the list is Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury.  

Ebor

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« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2004, 09:13:00 PM »

Yeah, almost on a par with Indian food.   Tongue
Which, in turn, if very-well prepared, is almost (but not quite) on a par with German food     :-)
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« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2004, 09:15:06 PM »

Quote
Well, there is Huxley's Brave New World as a classic.  Then there's The Dispossed by Ursula K. LeGuin.  Others that I've read are This Perfect Day by Ira Levin and an old one Looking Backward by Bellamy

Some sort of dystopia stories are founded on an idea of "after a holocaust" like climate change, epidemics, nuclear war and so forth.  They could be considered more speculations of how societies would rebuild.  Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale I think sort of fits here.  Though I have to say, I found her axe-grinding too strong.  Laurie King, who most writes mysteries has an SF future society after disaster book that I'm starting, Califia's Daughters.  She wrote in a sort of response to Atwood and her cowed women with the "evil male oppressors" keeping power.

If you like, I can think of more (I'll go paw through the SF shelves in the basement.)  8-)

Ebor

I actually own Brave New World, so I will make a point to raise it at least a bit on my To Read list (probably from number 116 to 82 hehe). I am also a fan of LeGuin, so I shall remember her as well. I have been meaning to pick up The Handmaiden's Tale for so long now, and I just never get around to it! It's somewhere in the vicinity of #35 on my To Read list Smiley I will get there eventually! Let me know how the Laurie King book that's a response to Atwood's turns out...if it is good, I will have it join Handmaiden's Tale at 35 (they can share a spot if they should be read together hehe).

If you think of any more, do let me know! Also, I noticed you didn't respond to my bit about The Giver...have you read it? If not, I highly recommend it (and you would get through it in about 3 hours, if that, since it is a young adult book...I just gave it to my roomie for Christmas actually, and she plans to read it on the plane back to MN for winter break Grin )
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« Reply #96 on: December 13, 2004, 10:22:38 AM »

I have been meaning to pick up The Handmaiden's Tale for so long now, and I just never get around to it! It's somewhere in the vicinity of #35 on my To Read list Smiley
To be honest, I strongly dis-recommend (is that a word? lol) that particular book.  Had to read it for school.  It's a strong candidate for the preachiest and most implausible work of its type. ;-)
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« Reply #97 on: December 13, 2004, 11:18:05 AM »

Quote
For example: #38 on the list is The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes!  Why would *that* be banned, I wonder. 

If I remember correctly, it was banned in the Soviet Union because of references to "occultism and spiritualism".  Being a Sherlockian myself, I cannot for the life of me find these supposed references.  I really would think the only place that might have a case for banning any Holmes stories would have been Utah because of the villification the Mormons, particuarly Brigham Young, received in "A Study in Scarlet"!
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« Reply #98 on: December 13, 2004, 05:01:04 PM »

Well book burning in any country in any part of the world can infringe people's freedom. Of the writer wants to express his feelings let his do so even if it hurts them Let them experience what your experienceing. Just as long the Church perspective is pointed out and he can decry his foul. I beleieve we express our anxiety at someone that we cant fully understand the spectrums of the whole box. It can benefit all of us so much.  thank you

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« Reply #99 on: December 13, 2004, 05:54:15 PM »



If I remember correctly, it was banned in the Soviet Union because of references to "occultism and spiritualism".

Bet it was banned because of Holmes' cocaine use.
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« Reply #100 on: December 14, 2004, 12:15:40 AM »

Also, I noticed you didn't respond to my bit about The Giver...have you read it? If not, I highly recommend it (and you would get through it in about 3 hours, if that, since it is a young adult book...I just gave it to my roomie for Christmas actually, and she plans to read it on the plane back to MN for winter break Grin )

I read "The Giver" some years ago.  It definitely is a dystopian book for me.  I'm afraid that some of the things in it were rather distressing.  As I recall, there is an infant that doesn't respond to being 'programmed' in behavioor, it doesn't fit in.  So it is casually destroyed.  With our youngest having mild Downs that cut too close to home.  I have found since having children of our own that I cannot read about children getting maltreated/dying.  A flaw on my part.  The killing of the old people at a certain time was chilling as well as the view that the women who bear children for the society are not to be emulated.  That it's low status to be a parent.  In some ways,these ideas are in "This Perfect Day".

By coincidence, my eldest brought "The Giver" home from the school library this past week. Perhaps I can look over it.

Ebor
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« Reply #101 on: December 14, 2004, 12:20:19 AM »



I have been meaning to pick up The Handmaiden's Tale for so long now, and I just never get around to it! It's somewhere in the vicinity of #35 on my To Read list Smiley I will get there eventually! Let me know how the Laurie King book that's a response to Atwood's turns out...if it is good, I will have it join Handmaiden's Tale at 35 (they can share a spot if they should be read together hehe).


I found the Handmaid's Tale to be overrated.  I much preferred Cat's Eye, also by Margaret Atwood.  I read it years ago and it still sticks with me. 
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« Reply #102 on: December 14, 2004, 12:25:04 AM »


To be honest, I strongly dis-recommend (is that a word? lol) that particular book. Had to read it for school. It's a strong candidate for the preachiest and most implausible work of its type. ;-)

Well, I don't say that it's a *good* book, but it definitely is dystopian. And it could be a good example of "See this book. The Author thinks she has an IMPORTANT MESSAGE. She is going to Make Sure The Reader Gets It." And it can lead to discussion about why this is so.

I confess that I'm not keen on Margaret Atwood. She doesn't think she writes SF and has a low opinion of that genre. I get a monthly email SF news and information publication called "Ansible". It usually has a section called "As Others See US". Margaret Atwood has been there several times with comments about Science Fiction being about "talking squids in space".  :- Harummph.

Always Coming Home is another LeGuin. I found the cultural and background parts of it more interesting then some of the 3 parts of the story. Then again, how can I forget The Left Hand of Darkness

Ebor
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« Reply #103 on: December 14, 2004, 03:25:09 PM »


Yah anastasios,
We in Michigan also have plenty of Protestants.. [There's only 3 million Catholics here] Especially around Grand Rapids. Please do remember that Michigan also has a huge Muslim population[for da USA] and Muslims are scarier than Protestants with their shrieks to da devil and terrible smelling food.

Have you ever put your nose in saurkraut? Not exactly a bed of roses.
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« Reply #104 on: December 14, 2004, 08:41:59 PM »



Have you ever put your nose in saurkraut? Not exactly a bed of roses.
I've never had sauerkraut. I only eat kapusta!!! Polish people have basically two types of kapusta. The fresh type and the aged one. Aged resembles german insult to kapusta. Tongue Wink
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« Reply #105 on: December 14, 2004, 08:58:42 PM »

 


 I am beginning to hear the strains of the "Horst Wessel Lied" coming from this thread.  I can't believe it was started!!!
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« Reply #106 on: December 14, 2004, 10:02:32 PM »

I can't believe people took this so seriously!  Tongue
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« Reply #107 on: December 14, 2004, 10:02:45 PM »

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Have you ever put your nose in saurkraut?

Why would anyone purposely put their nose in sauerkraut?

Or do you have a humourus story about how this happened to you? Wink

If so, do tell! Cheesy
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« Reply #108 on: December 14, 2004, 10:59:34 PM »

Quote
I read "The Giver" some years ago.  It definitely is a dystopian book for me.  I'm afraid that some of the things in it were rather distressing.  As I recall, there is an infant that doesn't respond to being 'programmed' in behavioor, it doesn't fit in.  So it is casually destroyed.  With our youngest having mild Downs that cut too close to home.  I have found since having children of our own that I cannot read about children getting maltreated/dying.  A flaw on my part.  The killing of the old people at a certain time was chilling as well as the view that the women who bear children for the society are not to be emulated.  That it's low status to be a parent.  In some ways,these ideas are in "This Perfect Day".

By coincidence, my eldest brought "The Giver" home from the school library this past week. Perhaps I can look over it.

Ebor 

There are many things in The Giver that are distressing, I will give you that! It is the first book I ever had an emotional response really, when I read it in 6th grade. It was the first book that actually made me think and even feel, and so I can honestly say that The Giver changed my life at that point, as short as it (my life) had been thus far.

There is also immense hope in the book as well, and the especially distressing moments make the final few chapters all the more beautiful in their determined hopefulness. I definitely recommend you pick it up again if you can. Smiley
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« Reply #109 on: December 14, 2004, 11:30:35 PM »

I can't believe people took this so seriously! Tongue
Umfa, umfa, umfa,umfa.
Na zielonej Ukrainie, [in the green ukraine]
Gdzie hiszpanski zyje lud. [ where the spanish people live]
Tam gdzie rzeka Ganges plynie [notice: Ganges river in India]
i Japonczyk spija liod  [Japanese person drinking honey beer]

        Fajduli, fajduli x3
        u ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
        Fajduli, fajduli x3
       becbec bec!!!

Umfa, umfa, umfa, umfa
Gdy Sobieski byl sultanem, [when Sobieski was the sultan]
stary bismarck Z BYKA SPADL. [old Bismarck felll from his ox]
Napoili osla sianem, [they gave ater to their horse with hay]
a ten osiol siano ziadl [and that ass ate the hay[

Umfa, umfa,umfa,umfa
Adam z Ewa zyli w raju Radiostacje mieli tuz [adam and eve had radiostations in Paradise]
Radio stalo przy ruczaju [radio stood by the ruczaj]
a nakrecal Aniol Stroz [and the Guardian Angel played it]

Koni moni, kni moni,
jasa umkaj ki, umkaj ka nikodema[Huh notice nikodema]
cerwone, zielone, nie moje, nie twoje, [red, green, not mine, not yours]
umfa umfa umfa umfa
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« Reply #110 on: December 14, 2004, 11:54:36 PM »

Huh???  Huh
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« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2004, 11:57:33 PM »

Huh??? Huh


i second that "Huh?".
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hmmmm...
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2009, 02:37:08 PM »

I wanna burn all those cheap and inexpensive romance novels they sell at cash registers, the really thick ones where the woman on the cover is enraptured by and embracing the large, beefy Fabio look-alike, and the title is in big gold letters, and the entire thing is raised from the paper so that even the blind can feel Fabio, and take him home for only $2.95.  I want to burn them because they suck.

I agree that it is better to refute intangible ideas rather than burn tangible objects. But some things are worthy of the fire, for example pornography. I don't need to familiarize myself with all forms of pornography in order to know that it is damnable. Of course you will always have these fools who want to split hairs and say, "Who is to decide what constitutes pornography?" and so on. And I for one think that these "romance novels" are worthy of the fire. It is outrageous that my children have to be exposed to these grotesque images whenever they walk through our local Books-A-Million. 

Selam
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 02:37:56 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
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« Reply #113 on: May 07, 2009, 11:00:11 AM »

Well, I don't mean to be difficult, I assure you, but is it always a case of "fools splitting hairs" with the question of what is "pornography"?  Michaelanglo's "David" is a nude, and has been considered by some people as "pornographic" and by others as a masterpiece of sculpture.  While there is a lot that is very clearly (and intended to be) prurient with no "redeeming social value" as it were. there are other works that *some* say are obscene but that others do not or that it is a minority that declares that anything that shows or tells something is unacceptable due to their own "lens".

Ebor
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« Reply #114 on: May 07, 2009, 04:42:14 PM »

The only thing I could think of when I saw this title was the Königgrätzer Marsch, and Sean Connery saying "My son, we're pilgrims in an unholy land..."
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« Reply #115 on: May 13, 2009, 09:40:26 PM »

The only thing I could think of when I saw this title was the Königgrätzer Marsch, and Sean Connery saying "My son, we're pilgrims in an unholy land..."

Bingo!  Nice reference; my first thought too (of course, seeing the movie again not even a week ago helps).
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« Reply #116 on: May 14, 2009, 01:55:01 PM »

Can we burn Twighlight?
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« Reply #117 on: May 14, 2009, 02:26:42 PM »

I'd suport banning any of Judy Blume's books. I remember her boks being passed around when I was in elementary school, at that was in the late 70's early 80's! Her books were shrewdly packaged to sexualize children at an early age; and being raised in a non-Christian home I was very susceptible to her insidious message.

Selam   
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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
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