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Author Topic: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....  (Read 408 times) Average Rating: 0
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SolEX01
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« on: September 11, 2012, 10:33:45 PM »

A wicked imagination plays tricks.

I am very happy to be: loved by God and saved by Him.
I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

If you are already saved, how will you be saved?  Is that a teaching of the GOC/HOTCA or the Protestant in you talking?   Huh
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Schultz
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 10:37:38 PM »

A wicked imagination plays tricks.

I am very happy to be: loved by God and saved by Him.
I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

If you are already saved, how will you be saved?  Is that a teaching of the GOC/HOTCA or the Protestant in you talking?   Huh

What are you talking about?  This has been told to me by numerous Orthodox theologians and pastors.  Fr. Hopko even did a podcast on it not so long ago.

You're just looking for something to pick on Maria about but you're falling flat on your face. 
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SolEX01
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 10:47:10 PM »

A wicked imagination plays tricks.

I am very happy to be: loved by God and saved by Him.
I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

If you are already saved, how will you be saved?  Is that a teaching of the GOC/HOTCA or the Protestant in you talking?   Huh

What are you talking about?  This has been told to me by numerous Orthodox theologians and pastors.  Fr. Hopko even did a podcast on it not so long ago.

You're just looking for something to pick on Maria about but you're falling flat on your face.  

No.  There's a thread on the subject.      
Can we clearly define the nature of salvation?


Maria makes a bold statement by saying she has already been saved and she will be saved where salvation hasn't been guaranteed for anyone.  If Orthodox theologians and pastors have told you otherwise, maybe you took Fr. Hopko's podcast out of context?   Huh
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 10:47:58 PM by SolEX01 » Logged
Schultz
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 11:00:39 PM »

While I can't speak for her, the sentiment expressed by Maria is entirely Orthodox.  In no way is it meant to express a guarantee (as per the classic Protestant "Once saved, always saved" statement).  It's an expression of hope, that salvation is a process and not some one time event.

We are saved by the Incarnation (cf St. Athanasius).  We are being saved by participation in the sacramental life of the Church.  And we hope that we will be saved when we face the Judge at the end.

Again, we all know you don't like Maria.  I'm not particularly fond of her either, to be honest.  But there's nothing wrong with what she posted.  

And once I figure out which one of Fr. Hopko's podcasts addresses this, I will post a link to it so you can see for yourself if I took his words out of context.  I sincerely do not think I have nor do I have a track record for doing so.  If anything, I'm overly-scrupulous about context.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 11:01:50 PM by Schultz » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 11:03:38 PM »

We are saved by the Incarnation (cf St. Athanasius).  We are being saved by participation in the sacramental life of the Church.  And we hope that we will be saved when we face the Judge at the end.
Thank you for clarifying Schultz, I like this alot better than the "I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved".
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 08:22:28 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAlCze3ZFjA

Enough said!  Grin
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 08:42:09 AM »

We are saved by the Incarnation (cf St. Athanasius).  We are being saved by participation in the sacramental life of the Church.  And we hope that we will be saved when we face the Judge at the end.
Thank you for clarifying Schultz, I like this alot better than the "I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved".

Yes, I like Schultz's answer too. But I also don't mind the other.

As to the question of the OP, the answer is simply that Orthodoxy is not afraid of divine paradox. How can we be saved while still being saved? The answer is simply to keep struggling to work out our own salvation while maintaining faith in the eternally enduring mercy of God.


Selam
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 04:12:43 PM »

It seems like every time I try to ascend Jacob's ladder, I happen to find the rung that somebody spilled oil on.... and that somebody was me.
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