Author Topic: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....  (Read 544 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,182
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« on: September 11, 2012, 10:33:45 PM »
A wicked imagination plays tricks.

I am very happy to be: loved by God and saved by Him.
I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

If you are already saved, how will you be saved?  Is that a teaching of the GOC/HOTCA or the Protestant in you talking?   ???

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,536
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 10:37:38 PM »
A wicked imagination plays tricks.

I am very happy to be: loved by God and saved by Him.
I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

If you are already saved, how will you be saved?  Is that a teaching of the GOC/HOTCA or the Protestant in you talking?   ???

What are you talking about?  This has been told to me by numerous Orthodox theologians and pastors.  Fr. Hopko even did a podcast on it not so long ago.

You're just looking for something to pick on Maria about but you're falling flat on your face. 
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,182
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 10:47:10 PM »
A wicked imagination plays tricks.

I am very happy to be: loved by God and saved by Him.
I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

If you are already saved, how will you be saved?  Is that a teaching of the GOC/HOTCA or the Protestant in you talking?   ???

What are you talking about?  This has been told to me by numerous Orthodox theologians and pastors.  Fr. Hopko even did a podcast on it not so long ago.

You're just looking for something to pick on Maria about but you're falling flat on your face.  

No.  There's a thread on the subject.      
Can we clearly define the nature of salvation?


Maria makes a bold statement by saying she has already been saved and she will be saved where salvation hasn't been guaranteed for anyone.  If Orthodox theologians and pastors have told you otherwise, maybe you took Fr. Hopko's podcast out of context?   ???
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 10:47:58 PM by SolEX01 »

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,536
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 11:00:39 PM »
While I can't speak for her, the sentiment expressed by Maria is entirely Orthodox.  In no way is it meant to express a guarantee (as per the classic Protestant "Once saved, always saved" statement).  It's an expression of hope, that salvation is a process and not some one time event.

We are saved by the Incarnation (cf St. Athanasius).  We are being saved by participation in the sacramental life of the Church.  And we hope that we will be saved when we face the Judge at the end.

Again, we all know you don't like Maria.  I'm not particularly fond of her either, to be honest.  But there's nothing wrong with what she posted.  

And once I figure out which one of Fr. Hopko's podcasts addresses this, I will post a link to it so you can see for yourself if I took his words out of context.  I sincerely do not think I have nor do I have a track record for doing so.  If anything, I'm overly-scrupulous about context.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 11:01:50 PM by Schultz »
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 11:03:38 PM »
We are saved by the Incarnation (cf St. Athanasius).  We are being saved by participation in the sacramental life of the Church.  And we hope that we will be saved when we face the Judge at the end.
Thank you for clarifying Schultz, I like this alot better than the "I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved".
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline soderquj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 238
    • Transfiguration Greek Orthodox church
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Denver
Re: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 08:22:28 AM »
O God, cleanse me a sinner and have mercy on me.

Online Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,745
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 08:42:09 AM »
We are saved by the Incarnation (cf St. Athanasius).  We are being saved by participation in the sacramental life of the Church.  And we hope that we will be saved when we face the Judge at the end.
Thank you for clarifying Schultz, I like this alot better than the "I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved".

Yes, I like Schultz's answer too. But I also don't mind the other.

As to the question of the OP, the answer is simply that Orthodoxy is not afraid of divine paradox. How can we be saved while still being saved? The answer is simply to keep struggling to work out our own salvation while maintaining faith in the eternally enduring mercy of God.


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,697
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Permanent Salvation ... Oh, wait a minute....
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 04:12:43 PM »
It seems like every time I try to ascend Jacob's ladder, I happen to find the rung that somebody spilled oil on.... and that somebody was me.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com